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Zorn List Digest        Friday, October 9 1998        Volume 02 : Number 495



In this issue:
-
       Re: Ayler
       Knitting Factory Records sale
       World Music Library Re: Kim Sinh
       Re: Jewish?
       Re:  Knitting Factory Records sale
       Re: Jewish?
       re: Jewish?
       Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor
       re: Jewish?
       re: Jewish?
       Re: Jewish?
       Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)
       Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)
       Knit Sale
       world music library
       re: Jewish?
       re: Jewish?
       oops - zorn content!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:45:08 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ayler

Charles Gillet doubts whether anyone who listens to Ayler hasn't got
Greenwich Village so doesn't bother recommending it.  I'll have to
blow this one out: I listen to Ayler quite a lot, but perhaps it's
more accurate to say I listen to the Ayler/Peacock/Murray trio and
the quartet (with Don Cherry added).  I have a little other Ayler
stuff: but - apart from Spirits Rejoice - this might only be because
there's also some stuff by the trio or quartet on the same disc
(Bells/Prophecy, and a live 1964+1966 disc).  So I haven't leapt at
the Greenwich Village stuff, and need some bad-ass recommendation if
I'm going to do so ...

awaiting the bad-ass reco

Sean Wilkie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 98 09:54:42 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Knitting Factory Records sale

Dave Egan wrote:

>suggest some other KF titles for next month order? Any must-have in the

I'd suggest:

Flying at a Slant: Matt Dariau's Paradox Trio (paradoxically it's a
quartet)
Jews And The Abstract Truth: Hasidic New Wave -KFW 192
The Luckiest Boy In The World: Oren Bloedow- KFW 115
Cold Spell: W. Horvitz & Zony Mash (if you like A go-go music)
Vibes: Bill Ware/E.J.Rodriguez/Brad Jones (very nice)
Din Of Inequity: Steven Bernstein's Sex Mob (try this!, fun, music and
Briggan Krauss!)-KFW/Columbia
The Joy Of Being- Peep;- KFW 204 (My favorite. Please don't miss this
one!!)

I don't recommend:
The Sign Of Four- Metheny-Bendian & Co.
No Vibe Zone- Don Byron Quintet (not a bad cd, but I prefer other
Byrons)

Good shopping and listening!

Hugo



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:08:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: World Music Library Re: Kim Sinh

Hi-

I've heard the first 100 or so of this series and all are beautifully
recorded and most have music that is fulfilling. I only remember a couple of
duds, but can't remember what they are.

Some that stand out as particularly good to me are:
Hsaing Waing of Myanmar
Turkish Military band music of the Ottoman Empire
Sinawi Music of Korea
a disc of North Indian Vocal music whose name escapes me
several discs of Mongolian khoomei (overtone singing) and morin khuur
(violin) playing
the afrementioned Kim Sinh disc
a gamelan composed of bamboo instruments (Javanese, I think) along with
several other fine gamelan and Indonesian records

plenty to keep folks busy,
Ralph


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:05:08 +1000
From: Peter Hollo <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jewish?

Well, going from the names alone, Dave Douglas would be Jewish (Michael
and Kurt Dougals are anyway...) Greg Cohen would be, and Joey Baron most
probably is.
Mark Feldman would be, as would Erik Friedlander. They play like Jews
too! However, Don Byron plays fantastic klezmer and is of course not
Jewish, proving that You Don't HAVE To Be Jewish (but, as they say, it
chelps.)
Erm... David Krakauer I'm sure is, but I wouldn't know about Chris Speed
(there *are* Jewish Chris's but still...) John Medeski, well these
Eastern European names are often indicative of Jewishness, and
especially when associated with music/Jewish music so yes... Mark
Dresser similarly, and Kenny Wolleson probably. Anthony Coleman is for
sure; the name *can* indicate Jewishness but needn't - anyone know is
*Andy* Coleman who is aka Animals on Wheels (mad drum'n'bass dude now on
Ninja Tune) is Jewish? (As if anyone would know).

Marc Ribot? I'm interested in this one, I really don't know. And then
Cyro Baptista, well, even more than Chris Speed this is a Jewish name,
but South Americans can have names like this without it necessarily
meaning much. These three then (in this paragraph) are the only ones who
I would not be quite sure are Jewish.

I've been interested in this too, for the sole reason that I'm Jewish
and I'm just interested. It seems one doesn't have to be Jewish to do
klezmer well, but it does help - I know that I intutively know how to
play Jewish music (on the cello as it happens) and I'm an atheist,
hardly ever been to synagogue, and don't even have a great deal of the
culture (youth groups etc) in my background (just a pervading
Jewishness).
Also wondering then: is DJ Olive of We (who Djed on the wonderful Primal
Light album of Uri Caine/Gustav Mahler Jewish? Now on THAT album: Aaron
Benoussan, undoutedly (whoever heard of a cantor who was a goy anyway?)
Dave Binney - who knows? Danny Blume, for sure with that name. Dean
Bowman and also Arto Lindsay - who knows again? Arto is South American I
believe and again it's possible but I dunno. Michael Formanek - another
Eastern European name, most probably yes. And Larry Gold for sure.
[Actually, the only drawback on this album is I really miss Greg Cohen's
bass playing and Erik Friedlander's cello playing. These last two are
good but the tone and the passion just aren't the same...] And John
Roseman - most probably...

Anyone who could give a fuck and knows about the question marks, I'm
interested. Especially DJ Olive - there aren't a great deal of Jews
working in the electronic/sampling/whatever area, so I'd love to know. I
do a bit of that music myself...

As to why one is interested? It's hard to explain to someone who isn't
Jewish, but it's the sort of feeling one has of the extended family of
the Jews... partially the (only slightly paranoid and perverse) sense
that whether or not one feels strongly Jewish or is indeed like me an
atheist, the bigots, the Hitlers, won't give a fuck - it'll be off to
the concentration camps anyway. So there's this sense of that (rather
morbid) commonality. But on the positive side, there's this culture,
this music for instance that everyone on this list loves so much, which
we as Jews are part of, and it's both very interesing that there are
non-Jews who participate so fruitfully in it (eg Don Byron) and also
interesting just who *is* Jewish, who shares this cultural background
with us.
A lot of people couldn't give two hoots about any such commonality or
whatever. However, in a world where as a Jew one can very often be made
to feel like a foreigner (an "Auslander") in any country at all (and
plenty of people even threaten/resent our own ill-begotten "homeland"
Israel), having these roots of some sort, and discovering other people
who can one can identify with in certain respects, is part of what makes
up and confirms our identity. Ask yourself why you're on the John Zorn
list, and why you most probably latch on to people at parties and
wherever who share your interests in music... Well, the interest by
someone like me at least in who is Jewish is similar to this. Perhaps
I'm searching for my own identity in some way in this.

Sorry for the long meandering post, hope it was perhaps a bit
elucidating.
Peter.
- --
Peter Hollo  [e-mail]  http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html
           FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet
                http://www.fourplay.com.au
"Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and
your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:03:21 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Knitting Factory Records sale

>suggest some other KF titles for next month order? Any must-have

doesn't the new bongwater box set come out this month or next?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:08:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jewish?

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, cd wrote:

> Although I don't think any culture (whether religious, ethnic,
> geographic etc.) should be able to restrict the use of a series of notes
> or a rythmic motif, I can't help but feel that there MAY be a reasonable
> argument that if you're not Rasta you can't play "Rasta music" or if
> you're not Jewish you can't play "Jewish Music" with the same passion
> (for lack of a better term) than someone who is (however you define
> "Rasta" or "Jewish").

I think Don Byron's klezmer work would show that not to be true.

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:21:19 -0400
From: Charles Jacobus <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Jewish?

    > argument that if you're not Rasta you can't play "Rasta music" or
if
    > you're not Jewish you can't play "Jewish Music" with the same
passion
    > (for lack of a better term) than someone who is (however you
define
    > "Rasta" or "Jewish").

    I think Don Byron's klezmer work would show that not to be true.

I agree. Anyway, Zorn's so-called Jewish music is
as indebted to western and non-European traditions.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:41:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor

> And now for my question. I'm looking for some female vocalists, and am
> particularly interested in Shelley Hirsh and Diamanda Galas (of which i
> don't know anything except 'Metamorfosi' from The Big Gundown). Any
> reccomendations would be really appreciated.

I'm also wondering about where to find albums by Hirsch -maybe something
less conceptual than _States_ or _O Little TOwn of East New York, which
are entertaining but not things I would listen to frequently.  I know of
one track with her and Chris Cutler and Jon Rose on one the ReR samplers
which is sort of a bizarre drama/comedy thing which I really like, but
I'd like to find something which features her singing in the same ways as
the stuff on _The Big Gundown_ and _Filmworks I_, whether its one of her
own albums or a collaboration.  So by all means let me know.

(Btw, I saw in the liner notes to Arnold Dreyblatt's amazing CD _Animal
Magnetism on Tzadik that she had worked with him, which was surprising.)

Here's my other question: I'm going to order one or two of the Cecil
Taylor CDs on FMP (all I can afford right now), and I'm think of
Looking/Feel Trio and The Tree of Life, but basically I'm looking for
something on the relatively softer side from this late period.
Specifically, if anyone has seen his video on Mystic Fire, the last song
w/ him, Parker, and Oxley (+ another percussionist) is the kind of thing
I'm looking for (in terms of small groups) and something like "After All"
from Silent Tongues in terms of solo piano.  Thanks to anyone who can
point me in the write direction.

P.S. I have Silent Tongues, 3 Phasis, Nefertiti, and For Olim already so
if there are any other big ones I'm missing let me know.  I'm on a limited
budget unfortunately.

WY




- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 08:57:58 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Jewish?

On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Charles Jacobus wrote:

>     > argument that if you're not Rasta you can't play "Rasta music" or
>     > you're not Jewish you can't play "Jewish Music" with the same
>     > (for lack of a better term) than someone who is (however you
>     > "Rasta" or "Jewish").

>     I think Don Byron's klezmer work would show that not to be true.

there's a difference between playing Jewish music (or any music specific to
one's own heritage) with your heart and playing it with your brain.


> I agree. Anyway, Zorn's so-called Jewish music is
> as indebted to western and non-European traditions.

only the western and non-European aspects, which more or less makes Masada
Changes of a Century (correct title?) By Ornette Coleman, when you strip
away the "so-called" Jewish aspects.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:03:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Jewish?

On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote:

> there's a difference between playing Jewish music (or any music specific to
> one's own heritage) with your heart and playing it with your brain.

And that difference is...?

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 98 12:37:36 EDT
From: "M.Ho" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jewish?

>
> Marc Ribot? I'm interested in this one, I really dont know.

Marc Ribot is Jewish and did a very interesting interview for the
Jewish Student Press Service about his views on the Radical New Music
Jewish Festival and Jewish music, the resurgence of it in the
downtown music scene and how he identifies with it.  Check it out at
http://shamash.org/schmooze/jsps/index.html
I highly recommend it and would like comments on the interview.

- -Mary

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:34:11 +0100
From: "Felix" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)

>On just about every Zorn album I own, Zorn claims "all music composed
>and arranged by John Zorn" or "all music by John Zorn".  A curious
>exception is Angelus Novus which seems to be silent on the issue (I
>couldn't find anything) though the score for "Carny" reads (c) 1992 TOMO
>(BMI).  The Masada disks and first Naked City disk are also TOMO (BMI).
>Thus, it appears that in all these cases the royalties are payable to
>Tzadik (Zorn), TOMO (Zorn), or BMI for TOMO (Zorn) and any monies
>payable to the musicians are not by copyright law but by contract
>between Zorn and those individuals.  I'll try to ask BMI who they send
>the royalties to.  Better yet I'll try to ask Zorn when he comes to
>Seattle next month.  What does the Filmworks in question (#1?) say - is
>the guitarist given composer credit?
>
>Considering how well and how often the musicians play for Zorn, and how
>highly they speak of him, he must be paying them well.  Either that or
>they are all hipnotized with Cobra flashcards (except Trey S.) after
>which time Zorn communicates telepathically.  That is the only way to
>explain how tight Naked City was...


Well, in Filmworks 1 (from which the track in question comes), it reads
something like this (I don't have the booklet in front of me): "All tracks
composed and arranged by John Zorn with colaborations (sp?) from all the
other players".
Anyway, I agree with you. Since John Zorn is taken in such high regard by
his players, and since they seem to always come back for more, then he must
be paying them or they would starve.
I don't doubt Zorn's composer capabilities. He did not became the
awe-inspiring musician he is now by a mere stroke of luck.

Felix
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:41:02 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)

At 02:34 PM 10/9/98 +0100, Felix wrote:

>Anyway, I agree with you. Since John Zorn is taken in such high regard by
>his players, and since they seem to always come back for more, then he must
>be paying them or they would starve.

This isn't a comment about Zorn specifically.  Many of the musicians I
know, recording regularly and perceived as "successful" in the
outside-the-mainstream music world, have day jobs or live a very
marginalized existence.  The royalties from CDs selling 1000-10,000 copies
are not particularly big.  Many would starve if they tried to live on these
royalties.

The lucky ones have jobs in the music business.  One of Laswell's regulars
is on CDs by Michael Jackson, Vanessa Williams, etc.  A lot of people look
at that and say it's too bad, but it sure beats moving pianos or working in
a retail store.




Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:32:43 -0600
From: dennis summers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Knit Sale

Thanx for the info. I've placed my order: Brand Spankin New; 2 (Larval) and
Byron's No Vibe Zone. Can't wait.

yours in zornocity --ds
***Quantum Dance Works***
****http://ic.net/~denniss****


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 13:40:05 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: world music library

Is there a website for WML?  Could someone post some contact info, if
any exists on the sleeves or liner notes?  Thak you.

- --s

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:40:18 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Jewish?

On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote:
>
> > there's a difference between playing Jewish music (or any music specific to
> > one's own heritage) with your heart and playing it with your brain.
>
> And that difference is...?

think about it.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:02:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Jewish?

On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote:
> >
> > > there's a difference between playing Jewish music (or any music specific to
> > > one's own heritage) with your heart and playing it with your brain.
> >
> > And that difference is...?
>
> think about it.

Ah, yes, the standard response to the questioning of a baseless cliche.

I have spent several years thinking about it. Your turn.

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:19:11 +0000
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: oops - zorn content!

hi fellow zornsters!

i found out from the swiss tzadik distributor that the release of jz's
"music for children" cd has been postponed for europe. they didn't know
when it is going to be available.

the good news are, that the masada chamber ensemble will be performing
in europe in march next year. something for all of us to look forward
to, i guess...

hope i didn't waste anyones valuable time.

patRice

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #495
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