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Zorn List Digest        Friday, October 9 1998        Volume 02 : Number 494



In this issue:
-
       Re: Knitting Factory Records sale
       Jewish?
       Re:  new label: nuscope
       Kim Sinh
       Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)
       Kim So-Hee, Cecil
       Re: JZ and royalties
       Re:  Jewish?
       Re: Kim Sinh
       Re: guitar albums and things
       Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)
       Re: Jewish?
       Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)
       Recent Goddies + female voices

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:36:11 +0300
From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale

Hello Dave,

≈σ≥Γσ≡π, 8 ╬Ω≥ ß≡ⁿ 1998, you wrote to me:

DE> For those of you who haven't been to the Knitting Factory website in the
DE> last couple of weeks, Knitting Factory Records has a sale on.  It appears
DE> that everything in the catalog is on sale at 3 for $25, including shipping.
DE> There are also some promo CDs available with an order.  I made an order and
DE> received fast service, poor packing (although nothing was damaged) and
DE> inexplicably, a bill for $26.  I'm not inclined to argue though, because I
DE> got three regular CDs and two promos in the deal.

DE> Now a question.  I got Zony Mash's _Brand Spankin' New_, _300_ from Briggan
DE> Krause and from Prima Materia, _Albert Ayler's Bells_.  Would anyone care to
DE> suggest some other KF titles for next month's order?  Any must-haves in the
DE> catalog?  Thanks.

Check these great CDs. Pay maximum attention to Kazutoki Umezu and
Third Person: Lucky Water with him.

Braxton/Pavone: Seven Standards
Thomas Chapin: Third Force, Menagerie Dreams, Plus Strings, Sky Piece
Matt Darriau Paradox Trio
Pachora
Mario Pavone: Dancer's Tales
Peep: Joy Of Being
Kazutoki Umezu: Eclecticism, First Deserter
Blue Dog: What Is Anything
Third Person: Lucky Water

Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.jazz.ru/



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:58:28 PDT
From: "Dominique Leone" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Jewish?

Are all of the people who play in Masada groups Jewish?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:05:49 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  new label: nuscope

In a message dated 10/8/98 3:53:26 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<Marcio Mattas (never heard of him) on acoustic bass>>

Marcio Mattos is a member of the unsung trio Bardo State Orchestra, in
addition to being a member of Chris Burn's Ensemble, which I had the pleasure
of seeing at last year's Victoriaville festival. I can't say Mattos' playing
was especially memorable, but he held his own with the likes of John Butcher,
John Russell, Phil Durrant, and Burn. The disc that this group released
recently, _Navigations_ (Acta), is very good, although maybe lacking a bit in
the fire department.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 98 15:15:24 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Kim Sinh

     Coupla non-zorn related questions:

     1) I've been completely enjoying, for some time now, a disc called
     "The Art of Kim Sinh" (World Music Library, 1991). Sinh is a
     contemporary Vietnamese singer and guitarist, now about 68 years old,
     who's apparently rather popular in Vietnam. He works out of a folk
     tradition (Gai Luong), though I'm guessing that, to a Vietnamese, his
     work would sound somewhat "modern" (maybe the way Fahey's does to us
     Westerners). Very beautiful stuff. Does anyone know of other
     recordings by this guy? I've been unable to locate any.

     2) The several releases I've heard from this label, World Music
     Library, are of exceptional quality. This, despite the fact that they
     often come packaged as a kind of generic sampler (ie, 'Instrumental
     Music of Vietnam', 'Music of Khazakstan', etc). Does this level of
     quality hold true for the rest of the catalogue? Any specific
     recommendations?

     Thanks,

     Brian Olewnick



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:29:44 -0800
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)

Part of what Zorn splits with participating musicians (when the track is
functionally improvised, including the game pieces) is the composer
royalties, which are paid (at least in the States, but I think the formula
is similar in many other countries) based on the time length of a track x
number of units sold.  The payment of composer's royalties is separate from
any other deals about fees for sales for players, etc.; it's part of the
copyright law in every country that's part of the international copyright
agreement & it does get paid out of the gross, not the net.

Considering that some of his discs sell pretty well, players, at least in
small group recordings players, would get substantially more than session
pay, which they also receive when they record.

Bests,

Herb

"Cappy D'Angelo" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>>
>> >Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is
>> >named as the composer, he would get everything.
>>
>> I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember
>> where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat
>> years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties.  This
>> may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is
>> really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear
>> that out.  Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry.
>
>Exactly - the musicians would certainly get a cut of "net" not "gross",
>which, in the context of an independent label release, is usually
>precisely $0.  If the album happened to net $10,000, an artist who played
>on two tracks of a 10 cut release would usually get 2% (1% per track)
>at the most - $200. This is about two hours worth of a union gig.  If
>Zorn's musicians were getting more, I'd be very impressed....
>
>
>- -


Herb Levy
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:04:25 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Kim So-Hee, Cecil

I recently picked up a disc of of P'ansori music on Nonesuch that
features a vocalist named Kim So-Hee and was really impressed. I'm
wondering what other recordings of hers are in existence. I know Zorn's
a big fan... I highly recommend any traditional Korean music!!

Does anyone know if the Cecil Taylor double-LP on BYG ever got reissued
onto CD?

Thanks.

                -Tom Pratt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:53:57 -0500
From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: JZ and royalties

Cappy D'Angelo wrote:
>
> >
> > >Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is
> > >named as the composer, he would get everything.
> >
> > I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember
> > where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat
> > years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties.  This
> > may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is
> > really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear
> > that out.  Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry.
>
> Exactly - the musicians would certainly get a cut of "net" not "gross",
> which, in the context of an independent label release, is usually
> precisely $0.  If the album happened to net $10,000, an artist who played
> on two tracks of a 10 cut release would usually get 2% (1% per track)
> at the most - $200. This is about two hours worth of a union gig.  If
> Zorn's musicians were getting more, I'd be very impressed....

        I've often wondered about this in the case of JZ, since so much
of his music
is improvised by the players, and Ive heard from one somewhat irate
JZ collaborator who thought that his(and the other bandmembers)
contributions amounted to composition, and credit due, which was not
forthcoming.  Cultural imperialism, I believe was the term this person
used.
         Other than that, I have no specific knowledge of what or how JZ
pays
people, but I can speak to the general situation with indie releases. In
the case of a record that is issued under the artists name, with the
artist listed as composer of record, The musicians have no stake in the
recording, or in the publishing rights, unless the artist specificly
assigns them some portion. Not a likely scenario.  I cant help but think
that this could be a logistical nightmare for an artist. Its Hard to
imagine JZ doing the work of a dozen Harry Fox agency accountants just
to pay out dozens(hundreds?) of $3.58 checks every six months. What
would happen if all his past collaborators requested an audit?  When
would he have time to write 200+Masada compositions?
    Of course, none of this precludes less formal arrangements. Perhaps
someone here has the definitive answer......

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:34:52 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Jewish?

i would have no idea about the denomination of his players, but i am genuinly
curious about the implication and reason for your question, and actually think
it's one of the better ones i've come across here. care to elaborate?
clint

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 23:57:06 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kim Sinh

[e-mail] wrote:

>        1) I've been completely enjoying, for some time now, a disc called
>      "The Art of Kim Sinh" (World Music Library, 1991). Sinh is a
>      contemporary Vietnamese singer and guitarist, now about 68 years old,
>      who's apparently rather popular in Vietnam. He works out of a folk
>      tradition (Gai Luong), though I'm guessing that, to a Vietnamese, his
>      work would sound somewhat "modern" (maybe the way Fahey's does to us
>      Westerners).

Ironically, it was Jim O'Rourke, one of those most responsible for the Fahey
resurgence, who urged me to check out that Kim Sinh disc.  I don't know if
Sinh has anything else readily available in the U.S., but at least this one
disc should be readily available to the curious.

>      2) The several releases I've heard from this label, World Music
>      Library, are of exceptional quality. This, despite the fact that they
>      often come packaged as a kind of generic sampler (ie, 'Instrumental
>      Music of Vietnam', 'Music of Khazakstan', etc). Does this level of
>      quality hold true for the rest of the catalogue? Any specific
>      recommendations?

The quality across the board is excellent, and because I worked at Koch (World
Music Library's distributor) for several years, I've actually heard nearly all
of the first 175 releases (I think there are now over 200).  Each of them has
something to recommend it, and many of them have curiously translated notes
that lead to some exceptionally screwy phraseology (even on the front cover
blurbs).

The one WML that is truly a steady part of my life is 5192, "Chitti Babu, The
Art of Vina II," an incredibly beautiful album of South Indian karnatic music
by a composer named Tyagaraja, who is considered the "Beethoven of South
India" according to the notes.  Chitti Babu is a virtuosic player on the vina,
which sounds to me to be a baritone sitar-like instrument, and the music is
simply divine.  I'm no expert in Indian music in general but this is one of my
favorite albums of any style... of course, I most frequently use it for
background, but it can be listened to attentively as well, natrually.

Interestingly enough, the cover blurb states that Chitti Babu's phenomenal
technique "has given birth to new styles such as octave and harmonic playing"
which leads me to believe that Babu, like Fahey and Sinh, is someone who is
subverting and expanding traditional music from the inside out, rather than
vice versa.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:41:50 +0000
From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: guitar albums and things

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:05:13 -0500, "Landon Thorpe" wrote:
> Here are a few good ones: [...]
> Jim O'Rourke/K.K. Null--New Kind of Water (np, btw; should be called New
> Kind of Noisy)

   Can you tell me more about this album?  I haven't been able to
find a track list or any information on it; is there any indication
why it's named after a This Heat song?

> On other recent subjects:
> Speaking of the Sub Rosa Duo series, anyone have any comments on the
> Frere-Jones/Mazzacane Connors disc?

   I've seen it around, but haven't gotten it.  What is the point of
this series, anyway?  The split-LP format isn't very appealing.

   This week's purchases have all been Albert Ayler CDs, except for
the Alan Silva ESP disc.  I doubt anyone here who already listens to
Ayler hasn't gotten the Greenwich Village set, so I won't bother
recommending it.


- -- Charles

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:59:42 -0700
From: cd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)

I was referring to royalties in respect of performance.  The mandatory
fees in respect of composition are often called the "performance right"
(not to be confused with performer's rights).  For example, when
something is played on the radio, the composer gets a royalty.  When a
composer's work is recorded, the maker of the recording pays a flat fee
per track per copy (unless the track is very short or part of a medley)
which was about seven cents (on units-not sale price) the last time I
paid it (this is often split between composer(s) and publisher 50/50).

It's interesting that he gives everyone composition credit on the
improvised works.  Copyright law would traditionally say there is no
copyright in improvised works themselves as they don't meet the fixation
requirement...

On just about every Zorn album I own, Zorn claims "all music composed
and arranged by John Zorn" or "all music by John Zorn".  A curious
exception is Angelus Novus which seems to be silent on the issue (I
couldn't find anything) though the score for "Carny" reads (c) 1992 TOMO
(BMI).  The Masada disks and first Naked City disk are also TOMO (BMI).
Thus, it appears that in all these cases the royalties are payable to
Tzadik (Zorn), TOMO (Zorn), or BMI for TOMO (Zorn) and any monies
payable to the musicians are not by copyright law but by contract
between Zorn and those individuals.  I'll try to ask BMI who they send
the royalties to.  Better yet I'll try to ask Zorn when he comes to
Seattle next month.  What does the Filmworks in question (#1?) say - is
the guitarist given composer credit?

Considering how well and how often the musicians play for Zorn, and how
highly they speak of him, he must be paying them well.  Either that or
they are all hipnotized with Cobra flashcards (except Trey S.) after
which time Zorn communicates telepathically.  That is the only way to
explain how tight Naked City was...

- -cd

Herb Levy wrote:
>
> Part of what Zorn splits with participating musicians (when the track is
> functionally improvised, including the game pieces) is the composer
> royalties, which are paid (at least in the States, but I think the formula
> is similar in many other countries) based on the time length of a track x
> number of units sold.  The payment of composer's royalties is separate from
> any other deals about fees for sales for players, etc.; it's part of the
> copyright law in every country that's part of the international copyright
> agreement & it does get paid out of the gross, not the net.
>
> Considering that some of his discs sell pretty well, players, at least in
> small group recordings players, would get substantially more than session
> pay, which they also receive when they record.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 23:31:56 -0700
From: cd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jewish?

I've wondered also.  For several years I played in a few "Reggae"
bands.  Although some of the members were Rastafarians, most weren't.
Those who weren't black Rasatarians (ie those who were not black, those
who were not black and claimed to be Rastafarians, and those who were
black but weren't Rastafarians) were often openly criticized by
Rastafarians who profess that if you are not a Rastafarian you should
not play Reggae.  This is because Reggae is the music of the
Rastafarians, and to be Rasta you must, by definition, be Black.  They
were most critical of the "white Rastas" as they have no reason or right
to claim to be Rasta, and of the "baldheads" who were against the Rasta
cause by not being with it (or so they claim).  They almost had me
convinced that if I insisted on skanking, I should at least not mention
Jah or Babylon or Zion etc.  Similarly, I felt odd singing Handel's
Messiah in first year music school being an Atheist - I can't sing
"Hallelujah" with the same passion as the Christians...

Although I don't think any culture (whether religious, ethnic,
geographic etc.) should be able to restrict the use of a series of notes
or a rythmic motif, I can't help but feel that there MAY be a reasonable
argument that if you're not Rasta you can't play "Rasta music" or if
you're not Jewish you can't play "Jewish Music" with the same passion
(for lack of a better term) than someone who is (however you define
"Rasta" or "Jewish").
I should be clear that of course this could apply to any music or art
which is associated with a certain culture.  (Please excuse any
Political Incorrectness of my post - or at least address such comments
to me personally as to not waste bandwidth).

Comments?  What do Zorn's musicians have to say?

- -cd

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> i would have no idea about the denomination of his players, but i am genuinly
> curious about the implication and reason for your question, and actually think
> it's one of the better ones i've come across here. care to elaborate?
> clint
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:38:03 +0200 (MET DST)
From: FJG_Lamerikx <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)

> Considering how well and how often the musicians play for Zorn, and how
> highly they speak of him, he must be paying them well.  Either that or
> they are all hipnotized with Cobra flashcards (except Trey S.) after
> which time Zorn communicates telepathically.  That is the only way to
> explain how tight Naked City was...

Why does it say "except Trey S." (S for Spruance, I presume) here?

Frankco.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:20:31 +0100
From: "Felix" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent Goddies + female voices

Hello there.

Just got Zorn's "The Big Gundown" really cheap (I honestly think that the
people at the store made a mistake when labelling the price tag on the
CD...) It's really good, kinda hard to get used to, though. It took me some
hours of listening to start really appreciating the individual tracks. For
those that don't have it (impossible, I know, I must have been the last guy
on the list buying it), get it. It's a must have for Zorn OR Morricone fans.
It presents a big bundle of musicians, like Fred Firth, Wayne Horvitz, Bill
Frisell, Bobby Previte, Robert Quine, Anton Fier, Arto Lindsay, and many,
many other well-know artists of the downtown scene (they're just too much to
number.)

My other recent goodie, on the other hand, I completely fell in love with at
first listen. Following the recommendations of some people on this list, I
got Charles Mingus' "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady" and must say that
I am thankful we can post the off-topic post from now and then. It's a sad
album, but it's also the best Mingus I have heard.

And now for my question. I'm looking for some female vocalists, and am
particularly interested in Shelley Hirsh and Diamanda Galas (of which i
don't know anything except 'Metamorfosi' from The Big Gundown). Any
reccomendations would be really appreciated.

Now playing: Morricone/Zorn - "Poverty (Once upon a time in America)"

Thanks
Felix
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #494
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