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Zorn List Digest       Thursday, October 8 1998       Volume 02 : Number 493



In this issue:
-
       Re: God
       Re: Caine's Mahler Project
       guitar albums and things
       Re: Caine's Mahler Project
       RE: Conlon Nancarrow
       dna & mars
       Re: ESP reissues
       Re: Nancarrow
       Re: Need help
       Re: Caine's Mahler Project
       new praxis cd???
       Knitting Factory Records sale
       Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)
       Re: Knitting Factory Records sale
       Re: Knitting Factory Records sale
       Re: Knitting Factory Records sale
       Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)
       Re: Knitting Factory Records sale
       other Ribot
       Re: Knitting Factory Records sale
       new label: nuscope

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:57:57 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: God

Al T mentioned:

God is simultaneous mutual implication of everything, quoted from
Nicholas of somewhere or other.  Any info on the author, or his
thought?  I like this in a Spinoza-Leibniz kind of way.

Sean Wilkie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:31:38 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Caine's Mahler Project

A note for all list people within concert going distance of England:
check out Uri Caine's group this week!  fabulous stuff.  First time
I'd seen Mark Feldman in the flesh - what a player!  Two exquisite
sounds: a nasty circular bowing motion on the bridge; and (swiftly)
sliding the side of his hand down the back of the violin.

I can hardly try to rave enough about Don Byron, and won't.  I
expect great things from Caine, Formanek, Byron and Feldman, and
wasn't disappointed.  Surprise bonus was Ralph Alessi on trumpet, who
was great.  Who is he?  The name rings a little bell, but can't place
him anywhere.  My wife was impressed by him too, and thought it was
only at the the end (Drunkard In Spring, and maybe the last number of
the regular set) that he sounded like a jazz player - she liked his
"brass band" style.  Cornell Rochester was fine, but his solo on The
Little Drummer Boy was a bit too much of the "hard, fast, everything,
and then a bit more" for me - it would have been OK/appropriate if,
say, they'd beheaded someone at the end of it, but as a fairly
delicate melody followed, it just seemed, um, out of place; not at
all like Joey's playing on the same piece on the album.  Actually, I
got the impression (we were sitting in the front row) that Don, Uri,
Ralph, Michael and Mark were having a bit of a sneer at this solo -
Byron in particular seemed very judgemental about everything on stage
(often positively), and I found myself checking him out for approval
of my own reactions!!

Dave Binney on sax I thought I didn't know, but he was on the Primal
Light album - here he played alto rather than soprano, but he didn't
seem very involved, and disappeared off stage for a long stretch (what
he did play was OK).  But the serious disappointment, I thought, was
DJ Olive, who seemed to be a total waste of space.  MAYBE our seats
were too far forward for the PA, but we couldn't hear him when the
band was in full swing, and often enough, he was just rooting around
for vinyl, and listening to his headphones.  Most odd was the fact
that he had equal second billing with Don Byron on the publicity
("band of highly acclaimed fellow americans including DJ Olive and
Don Byron") - I didn't know who else was in the band until we got to
the concert hall!

Anyone have any views, gossip on why Caine and Byron (two of my
absolute fave music people in the 90s) seem to be outside the Zorn
ambit?  I first wondered about this when Chris Speed was heard on
clarinet on Bar Kokhba (his tenor playing is great, but his clarinet
is puny beside Don's); surely Caine and Byron's klezmer credentials
are beyond doubt?  And was anyone else at the Purcell Room on Monday -
if so, could YOU hear DJ Olive?

Sean Wilkie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:05:13 -0500
From: "Landon Thorpe" <[e-mail]>
Subject: guitar albums and things

Here are a few good ones:

Hans Reichel--Death of the Rare Bird Ymir/Bonobo Beach
Reichel--Lower Lurum (w/daxophone)
Jim O'Rourke--Remove the Need
Jim O'Rourke/K.K. Null--New Kind of Water (np, btw; should be called New
Kind of Noisy)
O'Rourke--Bad Timing (as you can see, I'm an O'Rourke nut)
Steve Reich/Pat Metheny--Electric Counterpoint (better than Zero Tolerance.
. . and Song X (w/Ornette) imho. Beautiful, and I think that's what counts)

On other recent subjects:

Speaking of the Sub Rosa Duo series, anyone have any comments on the
Frere-Jones/Mazzacane Connors disc?

A recent pickup--Guillermo Gregario: Ellipsis. Quiet and kind of spooky.
Quiet free improv, now I like that idea! Anyone have comments on this album
or any other info about this guy? This was another O'Rourke buy for me. He
plays guitar and accordion on most of the album.

My feelings on David S. Ware: When he's playing relatively straight, it is
with more emotion than I've heard from almost anyone else. But when he
leaves the earth, he completely loses me. Bummer. I like Shipp's By the Law
of Music, but it is rather hard to enter. I saw him do a 50-min duo
performance with William Parker at the Victory Grill here in Austin about
1.5 years ago, and I think I learned more about free jazz then than I have
listening to the stuff on CD for the past 4+ years. Really, live is the only
context in which I understand free playing. Interesting. Anyone else have
this experience?

Landon Thorpe


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:04:17 -0400
From: Charles Jacobus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Caine's Mahler Project

DR S WILKIE:
> check out Uri Caine's group this week!  fabulous
> stuff.  First time I'd seen Mark Feldman in the
> flesh - what a player!

I had the privilege of hearing them play at the
Knitting Factory a few months ago, and was also
blown away.
If you haven't already, check out the CD called
Primal Light on Winter & Winter. The whole thing is
excellent. Dave Douglas is unbelievable.
Has anybody seen the film that this music was
written for? If so, please comment.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:21:25 -0400
From: "Chris from Zeke's" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Conlon Nancarrow

Howdy!

Herb Levy mentioned:

The ensemble versions of these pieces heard on this disc, arranged by Yvar
Mishakoff, are far too slow
<snip>
In general these arrangements are a travesty, like a colorized movie.
<snip>
But still if you want the real deal, go with the Wergo series of discs.

I agree whole heartedly, although I would characterize the Ensemble Moderne
more as good silly fun.

But if you REALLY want the real deal in Paris there is a Museum of
Mechanical Music (sort of close by the Pompidou Center) where they have the
player piano and the rolls. I was there about 4 or 5 years ago and spent (I
think) 7 francs on a tour, and then asked the guy who owns the place (who
gave the tour) if he had any Nancarrow. He said yes, but he didn't like it,
and then proceeded to play 4 entire rolls for an audience of my and my
girlfriend.

I figure the difference between the Wergo discs and the museum is sort of
like the difference (to keep the analogy together) between watching the game
on TBS and being at Turner Field. (Or for those non-baseball savvy) live
recordings and live.

S'later
Zeke


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:33:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: dna & mars

hey, do any of you know how to electronically get in touch with arto
lindsay or ikue mori?  i'm trying to do some research on dna for an article.

also, does anyone know how to get in touch with the folk/folks who run
atavistic?

private responses are fine.

thanks,
brent


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:43:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ESP reissues

Don't hold off buying anything. Who knows when new versions will ever appear.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Lang Thompson wrote:

> Should
> I hold off buying any for the new versions, assuming they'll even happen?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 21:44:58 -0400
From: stephen drury <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Nancarrow

Speaking of Nancarrow, 5 of his studies will be played in transcriptions for
4 human hands on one piano in Boston:  Thursday October 15, Jordan Hall, New
England Conservatory, 8pm, free.  Program also to include music by Messiaen,
Donatoni, and Ivan Tcherepnin.
- -- steve


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:26:33 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Need help

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> Talking about E# and guitar, he has an upcoming record (called GTR OBLQ)
> with... Vernon Reid and David Torn!!! Don't know the label (Intuition?).

Knitting Factory Records, I think...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
"I'm baa-aa-ack..."


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:05:03 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Caine's Mahler Project

Charles Jacobus wrote:

> Has anybody seen the film that [Uri Caine's Mahler project] was
> written for? If so, please comment.

As a film, it made for a great slideshow.  I caught the American
premiere of the Caine/Mahler suite a few years ago during the JMT 10th
Anniversary Funeral at the Knitting Factory, and not only was the music
barely formed at the time (as opposed to the beautifully realized
rendition on the Winter&Winter CD), but the film, by Stefan Winter's
brother (originally the second Winter in W&W, but he left the company
really quickly), struck me as little more than the kind of movie any one
of us might shoot if we had a VHS camcorder with us on a tour of various
things and sites that had historical significance in Mahler's life.
Here a pastoral Austrian landscape, there a slo-oo-ooowww pan across a
score or a gravestone...  It had all the feel of a student project, and
the music on the CD now is most certainly stronger than were the visuals
back then.

But beyond that... has anyone heard the new W&W CD of Satie piano pieces
played on accordion?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:39:09 +0100
From: Stefan Verstraeten <[e-mail]>
Subject: new praxis cd???

> From: C Twomey <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Praxis  - Mold
> Hi I'm new to this list. Have you discussed this new Praxis disc yet?
> Anyone recognize any samples (beside the ones from the 1st Praxis and the
> Smashing Pumpkins)?

Surprise for me.......
I knew there was a sort of 'best of' praxis cd on Douglas, but
apperently, there seems to be a new praxis cd around the house.
So, can anyone give some details (label, title,...)

Best wishes
- --
Stefan Verstraeten

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:45:18 -0700
From: "Dave Egan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Knitting Factory Records sale

For those of you who haven't been to the Knitting Factory website in the
last couple of weeks, Knitting Factory Records has a sale on.  It appears
that everything in the catalog is on sale at 3 for $25, including shipping.
There are also some promo CDs available with an order.  I made an order and
received fast service, poor packing (although nothing was damaged) and
inexplicably, a bill for $26.  I'm not inclined to argue though, because I
got three regular CDs and two promos in the deal.

Now a question.  I got Zony Mash's _Brand Spankin' New_, _300_ from Briggan
Krause and from Prima Materia, _Albert Ayler's Bells_.  Would anyone care to
suggest some other KF titles for next month's order?  Any must-haves in the
catalog?  Thanks.

- - Dave


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 06:55:12 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)

>> Sorry, my questions: the song is almost all Quine. So now that money
>is
>> involved--I'm simply curious--who gets it?

>Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is
>named as the composer, he would get everything.

I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember
where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat
years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties.  This
may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is
really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear
that out.  Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:21:40 -0300
From: jabu <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale

>
>
>   Would anyone care to
> suggest some other KF titles for next month's order?  Any must-haves in the
> catalog?  Thanks.
>
> - Dave

Thomas Chapin ,Sky PieceX-Legged sally,Land of giant Dwarfs
Tronzo trio ,Roots

A.B.

>




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:43:47 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:45:18 -0700  "Dave Egan" wrote:
>
> Now a question.  I got Zony Mash's _Brand Spankin' New_, _300_ from Briggan
> Krause and from Prima Materia, _Albert Ayler's Bells_.  Would anyone care to
> suggest some other KF titles for next month's order?  Any must-haves in the
> catalog?  Thanks.

My three favorites on the label:

*** - LUCKY WATER: Third Person (1995, KFWCD-156)
*** - AGGREGATES 1-26: Arto Lindsay Trio (1995, KFWCD-164)
*** - COLD SPELL: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash (1997, KFW 201)

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:34:08 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale

  Would anyone care to
>> suggest some other KF titles for next month's order?  Any must-haves
in the
>> catalog?  Thanks.

I was wondering if anyone had heard the Undercover Band (??)'s HOR-FEST
album, the Paradox Trio stuff, the Joe Morris/Ken Vandermark/Hans
Poppel, or the Liminal stuff?  Or E#'s FIELD AND STREAM?  I was looking
at them, wondering if they were worth more than two listens.

- --s

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:21:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads)

>
> >Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is
> >named as the composer, he would get everything.
>
> I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember
> where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat
> years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties.  This
> may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is
> really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear
> that out.  Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry.

Exactly - the musicians would certainly get a cut of "net" not "gross",
which, in the context of an independent label release, is usually
precisely $0.  If the album happened to net $10,000, an artist who played
on two tracks of a 10 cut release would usually get 2% (1% per track)
at the most - $200. This is about two hours worth of a union gig.  If
Zorn's musicians were getting more, I'd be very impressed....


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:30:26 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale

In a message dated 10/8/98 12:37:12 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<I was wondering if anyone had heard the Undercover Band (??)'s HOR-FEST
album, the Paradox Trio stuff, the Joe Morris/Ken Vandermark/Hans
Poppel, or the Liminal stuff? >>

the two Liminal discs aren't especially exciting, with Nosferatu being a bit
better than Pre-Set. the "illbient" experience has yet to be captured on disc,
and at this point, probably won't be.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 98 13:33:06 EDT
From: "M.Ho" <[e-mail]>
Subject: other Ribot

I'm curious about Greg Ribot and his music.  In this months Knit
Knotes they mentioned that he had released two albums, one which was
Argentinian music and another of original tunes.  Does anyone know
how I can get my hands on these albums?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:40:45 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale

>  Would anyone care to
>>> suggest some other KF titles for next month's order?  Any must-haves
>in the
>>> catalog?  Thanks.
>
>I was wondering if anyone had heard the Undercover Band (??)'s HOR-FEST
>album, the Paradox Trio stuff, the Joe Morris/Ken Vandermark/Hans
>Poppel, or the Liminal stuff?  Or E#'s FIELD AND STREAM?  I was looking
>at them, wondering if they were worth more than two listens.
>
I have Field and Stream, and I like it, though I have only listened to it
twice thus far. I think it's the most successful of Elliott's electronic
projects thus far, MUCH better than the abysmal first Tectonics record. The
first tune is a very cool drum 'n bass piece, though it's not programmed by
E#, the rest is more of his typical guitar and electronics stuff.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:23:23 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: new label: nuscope

I got this info off Peter Stubley's excellent European Free Improv Site,
which is my second home:

Nuscope

Nuscope Recordings P.O. Box 601027 Dallas, Texas 75360; e-mail:
[e-mail].

"Producer Russell Summers started nuscope recordings in 1998 to document
the daring and
life-affirming musics of musicians whose goals are to stimulate,
mystify, and move. These musicians
also have the great gift to shatter preconceived perceptions of what
music and sound are all about.
With sound artists such as Fred Van Hove, Georg GrΣwe, and others,
nuscope recordings hopes to
bring about fresh perspectives of improvised and other vital musics.
Although the music on the
nuscope recordings label will vary, one thing remains consistent. That
is, all of these musicians
present their music, regardless of label, with added artistic value."
The catalogue of nuscope
recordings began with two releases in October 1998.

The Graewe in question is a trio recording w/Michael Vatcher (the Zorn
connection, for topical-compulsives) on drums and Marcio Mattas (never
heard of him) on acoustic bass, recorded live at the LOFT in Koln (same
location as SATURN CYCLE, which everyone needs now).  The Fred Van Hove
is solo piano, recorded in Chicago.  Check out the covers on Stubley's
site, they look beautiful (a Cy Twombly sculpture on one).

cheers!

s

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #493
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