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Zorn List Digest        Monday, October 5 1998        Volume 02 : Number 490



In this issue:
-
       Re: Need help with guitar recs
       Re: Need help with guitar recs
       Re: Need help with guitar recs
       Orange Jews, David S Ware
       Bill FRISELL discography - update
       RE: masada question
       Micro-Zorn-soft
       Previte at the KF
       RE:  Need Help
       Re: Previte at the KF
       naked lunch
       Re: naked lunch
       Re: Previte at the KF
       Zorn, Microsoft, ads
       Re: Actual Post Regarding Zorn
       Re: Zorn, Microsoft, ads
       Re: David S. Ware in St. Louis (review)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 02:26:25 -0500
From: nils <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Need help with guitar recs

> Can anyone recommend classic recordings (in print) by:
> Derek Bailey?

A big second on Wireforks (Shanachie).  Some fine playing, and unlike his solo work
(obviously), good group interaction.

> BTW, is "The Sign of 4" any good?

Depends on what you like.  I thought it was great.  It's Bailey's record.  Metheny
makes the stretch to the out playing, and it comes out interesting, sort of like
Pat trying to play like Derek.  You're never going to see that on record again for
a while.

There are 3 discs, with studio and live work, electric and acoustic, lots of weird
guitar instruments played by Metheny.  The second disc (if I remember the order
properly) contains a huge wallop of electric energy, it's pretty hard to listen all
the way through.  (I made it once.)

The production is a little spotty in places--problems with sound levels; players
drown each other out a lot (Bailey gets lost in the mix).  So it's hardly crystal
clear.  But that's not real high on my list of important things about records.

For other interesting guitarists, you should check out Tronzo (who has done things
with Spanish Fly and in his own groups, a breezy funky slide guitar style); and
also there's a record out last year by Rod Poole called The Death Adder, an amazing
mysterious hunk of microtonality (which I quite frankly don't really get).

nils



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 02:36:54 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Need help with guitar recs

In a message dated 10/4/98 2:29:10 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<and also there's a record out last year by Rod Poole called The Death Adder,
an amazing mysterious hunk of microtonality (which I quite frankly don't
really get).>>

Poole has a second CD just out on the same label, WIN Records, called December
96. It's in much the same vein as The Death Adder. More info at
www.winrecords.com.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 02:58:07 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Need help with guitar recs

if u r into layered noise, i recommend zero tolerance for silence by pat
metheny. i have heard lots of stories about how this came to be recorded, but
i don't know for sure what is true or apocrypha. i do know i like what it
sounds like and it is on geffen. noise rock on a major label. kick ass

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:10:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Orange Jews, David S Ware

:ORANGE JEWS - IT AIN'T JUST FOR BREAKFAST ANYMORE: various artists >

>   This record features Andy Statman, David Krakauer, Wally Brill, Andy Haas,
>   Uri Caine, Anthony Coleman, Gary Lucas, etc.
>
>     1998 - Knitting Factory Records (USA), KFR-222 (CD)
>
>   Note: not released yet (planned for April 1998).

They released it under the name _Jewish Alternative Movement: A Guide for
the Perplexed_, I think, and it came out maybe in June.  I guessed they
realized what a bad title that was.  I think the Hasidic New Wave CD that
came out at the same time also had its name changed from something like

About David S. Ware (from Dan Hewins' review)

>....  A highlight of the performance was a standard (I can't remember which).  A
> part of it was played by the trio sans Ware and that was something.  Shipp
> and the other two would phase in and out of playing the tune in a
> borderline cheesy way and pounding and such.  I enjoyed that.

I'll bet this was "The Way We Were" which is on the new CD. I liked this
effect too, the first few times, but Shipp has done it with "Autumn
Leaves", "Take the A Train", "Solitude" and maybe others.  I like all of
these but its starting to maybe seem a little schtick-y in a weird
way.

>  I couldn't help but think about Bloodcount, which has it's fair
> share of honking and wailing.  The only difference is that they seem to
> play as a group whereas the Ware quartet was four people playing at the
> same time on the same stage.  Braxton's quartets (We listened to Dortmund
> when we got home) have the same kind of group attitude as Bloodcount.

I agree completely.  I mean I like Pharaoh Sanders, Cecil Taylor, Peter
Brotzmann, _Spy vs Spy_, and lots of other things most people run from,
but I just don't get David S. Ware. I like Shipp's better,
but can't help feeling like he's a little overrated (and that Ware is WAY
overrated).  And I love Bloodcount too.  But, I realize other people like
Ware, its just my opinion, but I won't be spending any more money on his
stuff.  William Parker's quartet and big band have done some sstuff that I
liked a lot more, FWIW.

The Gold Sparkle Band from Atlanta put out a 7" of 2 songs by Shipp and
that was very good, I thought.  (T >


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:28:42 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bill FRISELL discography - update

Hi!

I'm very glad to announce the update of Bill FRISELL discography. It
is available at http://www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm. I'm
looking forward to your comments.

Big thanks to all contributors!  :-)

Take care!
Artur



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:18:57 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: masada question

Thanks to those who answered my "West Coast Masada" question. Additionally,
in the SF Examiner today they confirmed the lineup for the Masada concert in
SF on November 8: Zorn, Baron, Cohen and Douglas. Needless to say, yeeha!

Also, the John Schott Group (previously billed as John Schott's In These
Times) is apparently not playing from "In These Times;" he "debuts a new
quintet and presents the World Premiere of his latest major competition"
(according to the SF Jazz Fest ad).

Also, I have a CD of Zorn's "Aporias" for trade. E-mail me if interested (in
the US only, please).

Thanks,
Ben

np: john zorn, "two-lane highway"

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:41:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail] (Theo Klaase)
Subject: Micro-Zorn-soft

I just witmessed a comercial from Microsoft; the back-ground music was
"the Heist" featuring Marc Ribot off Zorn's Filmworks 1 album.
Look for it!


- -Theodorus


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:24:01 -0400
From: Alan E Kayser <[e-mail]>
Subject: Previte at the KF

I understand that the Bobby Previte 20th Anniversary shows were
broadcast over the KF site.  Anyone tape this?  Answer privately,
please.

Alan E Kayser


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:44:59 -0400
From: "hijk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE:  Need Help

For more great solo electric guitar stylings check out Marc Ducret's Un
Certain Malaise on Tim Berne's Screwgun label.

Jeff Kent
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:00:33 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Previte at the KF

Alan E Kayser wrote:
>
> I understand that the Bobby Previte 20th Anniversary shows were
> broadcast over the KF site.  Anyone tape this?  Answer privately,
> please.

Is the KF webcasting again? I had thought that they had stopped doing it
since Zorn had his (appropriate) shitfit at them.

- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:08:07 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: naked lunch

Maybe someone can explain this to me...

I saw the Naked Lunch soundtrack on a cd catalog and did some followup
searching. I came across the soundtrack which featured Ornette Coleman
which was the cd on sale on the catalog. But there was also a spoken word
thing by William Burroughs. It wasn't available, but does this spoken word
thing also feature Frisell, Horvitz and Kang? And does it have a
relationship to the soundtrack cd?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:28:12 -0400
From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: naked lunch

The soundtrack is for the movie, and has nothing to do with the reading by
Burroughs. The reading is a 3 CD set featuring uncle Bill reading various
sections from Naked Lunch and Frisell, Horvitz and Kang adding incidental
music.

At 1:08 PM +1000 10/5/98, Julian wrote:
>Maybe someone can explain this to me...
>
>I saw the Naked Lunch soundtrack on a cd catalog and did some followup
>searching. I came across the soundtrack which featured Ornette Coleman
>which was the cd on sale on the catalog. But there was also a spoken word
>thing by William Burroughs. It wasn't available, but does this spoken word
>thing also feature Frisell, Horvitz and Kang? And does it have a
>relationship to the soundtrack cd?


| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | |
| | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:57:46 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Previte at the KF

In a message dated 10/4/98 11:05:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

>
>  Is the KF webcasting again? I had thought that they had stopped doing it
>  since Zorn had his (appropriate) shitfit at them.

I think they still webcast, unless the artist wishes otherwise.  Wether or not
it's worth recording is another thing.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:10:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Joshua N Schuster)
Subject: Zorn, Microsoft, ads

I only get the digest, so this debate may already be raging, so apologies
if I repeat.

On TV, I saw a Microsoft ad that used a Zorn song. I don't really care
about that fact, but there are some questions it allows me to ask. The
song, I believe, is on Filmworks I, track 3, "The Heist", basically
Robert Quine jamming to a rhythm I enjoy. A Weiden and Kennedy ad-- I
don't know. The ad campaign for Microsoft seems to be failing. If they
want to humanize their product, showing boring people with impersonal
camera angles in cold rooms--anyways, Microsoft always knew the consumer
is irrelevant in hi-tech; as long as you can destroy competitors, you
leave the customer with no choice.

Sorry, my questions: the song is almost all Quine. So now that money is
involved--I'm simply curious--who gets it? Did Zorn really compose the
piece, or merely direct it, set its mood and orchestration (he'd have to
be a whiz on the guitar to figure out that rhythm)?  Is the song Quine's,
Zorn's, the filmmaker's, the record label's (I guess Zorn has the label
rights if he bought it back from Elektra to reissue it)?  This questions
could extend to numerous pieces on Zorn albums. Zorn may set the song's
mood, pace and concept, but in many cases the music played clearly is a
result of the skilled musician with a clear stylistic signature. So the
piece may be collaborative, but suddenly someone's getting paid. (Hm...,
what about the moral implications of selling music to Microsoft, of all
monopolies?)

When I think of it, there are many Zorn songs that would make great ad
music.  Something about Marc Ribot's playing also makes me think it would
be catchy with the consumer (not a negative comment, I think his playing
is great).  Zorn and the scene are great at those short, 20-1:20 sec. catchy
bursts of music.  It may be an influence of film with its short-lived
spots of music for transition and melodrama.  But surely it's also a
factor of the music market.  With so many albums and musicians, the
market is patient only for short songs which are easy to grasp both for
musicians and listeners.   In the absence of time to develop the music
for busy musicians and impatient, distracted listeners, one takes
advantage of the short tune, easily identified and understood by both.
Plus it's catchy and we recognize the attitude and theme
immediately--hence great music for TV ads.


There is a lot of marketing and economics going on here, and it's not just
the packaging. I think Zorn's theorized his game pieces in political and,
ultimately, economic terms, if only in terms of production and
consumption: a game piece is easily portable, adapts to number of
participants (producers and consumers), not too much practice time
required.

Take filmwworks "Tears of Ecstasy"--recorded in one day, with each song
lasting about one minute I think it says (these are arbitrary, numerical
constraints, not like Masada, set up as a cultural, historical decision).
In part, the one day session works because a mood can probably hold for a
day's duration, so the formal time constraints may help produce and
reinforce the mood of the music. But also the musicians are busy--one day
in the study not a big deal. The songs are all brief. Great music, yes,
with the help of putting economical constraint's to the music's favor.
It's probably not long before one of the tracks is picked up by ad
agencies.  That late track, the western-like one with the hootin' n'
hollerin' "he-yah"--would be great for the Marlboro man, or Microsoft,
roping in more competitors like cattle.


- -Josh Schuster


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:55:15 +0200
From: Yves Dewulf <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Actual Post Regarding Zorn

> This is old info (Douglas mentioned it to me in 1995!), but there was a
> project to release the following two sets on Tzadik:

>  *** - LIVE IN JERUSALEM: Masada
>    ???? - Tzadik (USA), ??? (CD)
>
>     Note: not released yet.

>  *** - LIVE AT MOGADOR: Masada
>
>     ???? - Tzadik (USA), ??? (CD)
>
>    Note: not released yet.

  A bit late, but nevertheless:

  The Belgium radio taped the concert of Masada at the Luchtbal,
  Antwerp (spring 1996) and announced that the recording would
  be part of a 5 CD-set. This Box would also contain this
  Jerusalem-concert as well as 3 other gigs.

  I believe this same mastodont has currently expanded to a 10 (or 12 ?)
  live-box of Masada recordings!

  YVes


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:08:24 -0700
From: cappyd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn, Microsoft, ads

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> Sorry, my questions: the song is almost all Quine. So now that money
is
> involved--I'm simply curious--who gets it? Did Zorn really compose the
> piece, or merely direct it, set its mood and orchestration (he'd have to
> be a whiz on the guitar to figure out that rhythm)?  Is the song Quine's,
> Zorn's, the filmmaker's, the record label's (I guess Zorn has the label
> rights if he bought it back from Elektra to reissue it)?  This questions
> could extend to numerous pieces on Zorn albums. Zorn may set the song's
> mood, pace and concept, but in many cases the music played clearly is a
> result of the skilled musician with a clear stylistic signature. So the
> piece may be collaborative, but suddenly someone's getting paid. (Hm...,
> what about the moral implications of selling music to Microsoft, of all
> monopolies?)

Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is
named as the composer, he would get everything. There are 2 rights
involved here: (i) copyright in the sound recording, and (ii) copyright
in the composition. If the piece was too "improvised" for Zorn to have
any copyright, neither would the performer.  A "performer's right" in
their performance has recently been enacted in some jurisdictions, but
this only applies if the performer is recorded without their consent
(i.e. bootlegs - although the US now has dedicated legislation for
these).  In reality, where an all original recording is made, contracts
are usually signed which assign all rights in the recording (either to
the producer or the label) just so there's no arguing later, and arrange
for royalties for the composition (e.g. 50/50 between composer and
publisher).  Also, where a work is commissioned (eg Zorn pays performer
to compose the work) it becomes a "work for hire" and - you guessed it -
Zorn is deemed owner of copyright.  No copyright in style either.  I
can't wait to see the commercial.

As far as doubting Zorn's ability to compose in detail for guitar, check
out "The Book of Heads" (or "Carny" in respect of piano).

Disclaimer: this was not legal advice!  Only my opinion!

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:41:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David S. Ware in St. Louis (review)

On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Dan Hewins wrote:

> What's the point of having a composed head if the solo parts have
> nothing to do with it?

what???  ever heard of ornette coleman?

b

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #490
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