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1998-09-30
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #486
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, September 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 486
In this issue:
-
Re: MASADA 10
MEV (was electroacoustic: proactive suggestions)
Re: electroacoutic: proactive suggestions
Re: MASADA 10
Dave Douglas
Zorn List
Re: who cares?
Re: who cares?
Don Cherry question...
Re: who cares?
Gabriela (Warning!! Non-Zorn Content!!)
Re: Don Cherry question...
Zorn's list
Re: electroacoutic: proactive suggestions
Re: Cobra Etc..
Re: Dave Douglas
Re: MASADA 10
Re: Modern comp: electroacoustic (redux redux)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:02:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: Saidel Eric J <ejs4839@usl.edu>
Subject: Re: MASADA 10
Patrice asked:
>
> BTW, what is the exact name of MASADA 10? I have read various titles:
>
> YODH
> RUACH
> YOD
>
> Any idea which one is the correct one?
Living where I do in the middle of nowhere, I have yet to see it. Does
it look like an apostrophe? (The title, that is) I assume Zorn is
continuing his practice of giving the Masada albums names from the
Hebrew alphabet. If so, the tenth letter is Yud (or Yodh or Yod),
rhymes with "should". If the letter doesn't look like an apostrophe,
ignore all this.
- - eric
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:41:30 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: MEV (was electroacoustic: proactive suggestions)
In a message dated 9/30/98 12:43:39 PM, bburton@CapAccess.org wrote:
<<i guess the problem then would be that the only mev cds in print are the
ones
recorded after the international split (both originally issued on
byg/actuel and reissued on spalax). can anyone recommend other good mev
albums prior to '68/'69?>>
The only other CD of MEV besides the two Spalax releases available as far as I
know is one on Allan Bryant's IRML label, which is from 1968. The liner notes
are written phonetically, so excuse any spelling mistakes in my personnel
listing. This incarnation of MEV consists of Frederic Rzewski, Allan Bryant,
Alvin Curran, and Jon Phetteplace. This CD is far superior to the two issued
on Spalax, which are of historical interest only. It was distributed by Forced
Exposure, and I don't know if it's still in print.
what I'd recommend instead of the Spalax MEV CDs is checking out either of the
two CDs by Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza, an Italian collective
including Ennio Morricone and Giancarlo Schiaffini, among others. The
retrospective on Edition RZ is superb, as is the one I just picked up on
Cramps, although it's shorter. The only other CD I know of from this band is
an Ennio Morricone soundtrack, _Giornata Nera Per L'Ariete/Gli Occhi Freddi
Della Paura_. my copy is currently lent out, so I can't give too many details,
but one of the two soundtracks on here was performed by the Gruppo and is
maybe their best work on disc. I don't remember the label off hand (maybe
Point?).
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:03:29 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: electroacoutic: proactive suggestions
On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Brent Burton wrote:
>
> On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Scott Handley wrote:
>
> > How about Musica Eletronnica Viva?
>
> when i picked up mev's "sound pool" i was initially pretty disappointed.
> it's a very communal free jam - entirely improvised - most audibly
> featuring a lot of acoustic instruments. what i guess i was expecting from
> musica electronica viva was more electronica. i really think richard
> teitlebaum's (sp?) recordings with anthony braxton are a lot more
> predominately electronic, intricate and interesting.
I guess you got one of the two MEV to avoid at all prices!!!
Here is what Frederic Rzewski told me about this incarnation of MEV:
In 1968/69 MEV experimented with audience participation and took on a number
of new younger people, many of whom were not musicians. We wanted to see
how far we could extend the idea of free improvisation, surrounding the core
group with people who happened to be around. The group expanded and spawned
separate communities. In the early 70's there were three MEV's: one in
Rome, led by Alvin Curran; one in New York, where Richard Teitelbaum & I
were based; and one in Paris, which was organized by the Coaquettes. Birgit
and Nona were members of the Living Theatre, with whom we also hung out a
lot, and Stefano was one of the younger acolytes. The record you are
talking about was a kind of hippie child who chose MEV as its identity.
Nobody ever found out really who was in MEV. At that time, it was part of a
movement, and that part of it that was a part of the movement lived and died
with that movement.
This incarnation of MEV put out two CDs which can disappoint if you are looking
for what the original MEV was about.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:32:04 -0800
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: MASADA 10
Patrice wrote:
>BTW, what is the exact name of MASADA 10? I have read various titles:
>
> YODH
> RUACH
> YOD
>
>Any idea which one is the correct one?
I recently saw the tenth disc called Ruach (which means spirit or breath in
Hebrew) somewhere too.
I haven't got the disc, have only looked at the cover & it has a yod (the
letter that's also the number 10 in Hebrew) on it, just as all the earlier
discs have had the correct letter for the numerical order in which it was
released. I've never seen the name of the letter anglicized as yodh, but
maybe I'm just missing out in life.
Bests,
Herb
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 15:56:28 -0300
From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar
Subject: Dave Douglas
Hello Zornies!
I'd like any thoughts and recommendations on Dave Douglas' cds. I have
Masada 8 and 9, Five (with the string group) and amazing Tiny Bell's
Live in Europe.
BTW, I have listened to a couple of tracks from Patricia Barber's Modern
Cool (Premonition) and not only she is great but Dave's participation is
outstanding.
So, what follow?/where to continue?/ what to pick up next?
You can email me privately if you want.
- -Hugo
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:11:33 -0400
From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com>
Subject: Zorn List
>but it makes me happy to get home from work and download a pile of
>chatter from these folks every night.
>
>Steve Smith
Me too.
David K.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:18:20 +0100
From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: Re: who cares?
>While I would vehemently argue that Zorn the man is none of our fucking
>business, everything else you mention has been at the heart of the Zornlist
for
>at the very least the three years I've been reading it in one place or
another.
>And in all of those years there have similarly been silly asides like the
>ordering of unwieldy collections of recordings.
<SNIP>
>Of all the lists I've ever been on, the Zornlist is the most egalitarian,
the
>most diverse, and definitely the most worthwhile. I don't know if John
would
>give a damn, but it makes me happy to get home from work and download a
pile of
>chatter from these folks every night.
Well said, Steve! I've been subscribed to some lists now, and find this to
be the most pleasant one to be a part of. After I bought "Elegy" I was not
sure if Zorn was the thing for me. It was with the help from this list that
I got to listen to such albums like "Spillane", "Kristallnacht" and
Filmworks series + stuff from Ikue Mori, Dave Douglas, Marc Ribot, etc,
which really got me deep into the jazz/experimental field. There are many
occasions when I really don't like the stuff being discussed on the list,
but I respect everyone's right to publicly discuss such topics. I just look
at the subject and delete the message. I really don't care about Golden
Palominos or Praxis or NYC gigs, but I know there are many people here who
are and I try my best to either understand or ignore those messages. And for
those who are "topic-defenders "who claim that they can discuss this and
that because it is vaguely related to Zorn, then we could end up discussing
16th century Portuguese history because Brasil was discovered in the 16th
century by the portuguese -> Brasil is home to Chico Buarque -> Lindsay
often works with Buarque -> Lindsay often works with Zorn. There you have
it - a connection...
Like Steve said - this is a gathering place for people who have a common
interest, but I'd find it degradating if the only thing discussed here was
Zorn. I'm glad it isn't, and I'm glad we can discuss Zorn when the
opportunity reveals itself.
Felix
jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:17:43 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: who cares?
At 07:18 PM 9/30/98 +0100, Felix wrote:
>Well said, Steve! I've been subscribed to some lists now, and find this to
>be the most pleasant one to be a part of...
I certainly agree with this. However -
>that because it is vaguely related to Zorn, then we could end up discussing
>16th century Portuguese history because Brasil was discovered in the 16th
>century by the portuguese
More people lived in Brazil prior to the Portugese arrival than lived in
Portugal at the time. It was hardly a "discovery" unless one believes that
only white people can discover.
Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:30:07 -0400
From: bobonic@westol.com (Adam MacGregor)
Subject: Don Cherry question...
Hey folks,
I saw somebody's post about Don Cherry and it reminded me:
Did Cherry not contribute the soundtrack for Jodorowsky's "The Holy Mountain?"
I seem to remember it being in a very eastern musical vein...excellent though...
Is it available on CD or is it hopelessly out-of-print (like the movie,
thanks to that fuck Allen Klein)?
thanks,
adam
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:18:00 EDT
From: TagYrIt@aol.com
Subject: Re: who cares?
In a message dated 98-09-30 15:40:03 EDT, you write:
<< we could end up discussing
16th century Portuguese history because Brasil was discovered in the 16th
century by the portuguese -> Brasil is home to Chico Buarque -> Lindsay
often works with Buarque -> Lindsay often works with Zorn. There you have
it - a connection... >>
But more importantly, can anyone tie this to Kevin Bacon?
Dale.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:23:38 EDT
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Gabriela (Warning!! Non-Zorn Content!!)
I picked up a CD by the guitarist/vocalist Gabriela yesterday from a cheap=
ie
bin, mainly because of the musicians in support on the CD. They include B=
ill
Frisell, Rob Berger, Bill Douglass, Alex Acu=F1a, and Eyvind Kang. Gabrie=
la has
a sensual earthy/smokey alto voice- a perfect match to the melodic Latino-
flavored folk music on the CD. I find it a bit odd however, to see the
aforementioned musicians involved in such a project (maybe with the except=
ion
of Acu=F1a, of course.) Can anyone give me more info on Gabriela and her
association with these musicians?
=3Ddgasque=3D
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:48:22 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Don Cherry question...
In a message dated 9/30/98 5:40:31 PM, bobonic@westol.com wrote:
<<Did Cherry not contribute the soundtrack for Jodorowsky's "The Holy
Mountain?"
I seem to remember it being in a very eastern musical vein...excellent
though...>>
He most certainly did. And I agree, it's pretty cool.
<<Is it available on CD or is it hopelessly out-of-print (like the movie,
thanks to that fuck Allen Klein)?>>
Maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the soundtrack was never
released at all. It certainly hasn't been released on CD. I bought a bootleg
of the video a few months back. Unfortunately, it was dubbed from a Japanese
copy, so it's letter-boxed with Japanese subtitles, and whenever genitalia are
shown too closely (somehwat frequently, if you haven't seen the movie), the
viewer is treated to a blurry spot in that place. What a wild, wild movie
though.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:56:16 -0400
From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com>
Subject: Zorn's list
Does anybody know what happened to the monthly list that Zorn used to put
up on the Tzadik website?
- ------------------------------------------------------
Lang Thompson
http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4
New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n'
Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:41:36 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: electroacoutic: proactive suggestions
>>>>> "Scott" == Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> writes:
Scott> Or Nono?
Nono loved soprano voices and political texts, and much of his work
involves them in some form or other. Your appreciation of his work
will therefore depend a great deal on your tolerance for this
combination (although his late works, which I haven't heard, involved
violin and were more instrumental). como una ola de fuerza y luz
(like a wave of fire and light) also involves piano and orchestra in
addition to tape, and is pretty amazing, and ...Sofferte Onde
Serene... is a piece for piano and tape which is also very good.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions... funny thing about opinions, they can change.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:42:21 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Cobra Etc..
>>>>> "Frankco" == FJG Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> writes:
Frankco> I have a few questions concerning this subject. I just
Frankco> returned from Japan, and saw that the Parachute Years box
Frankco> set was priced at a mere 90 dollars. This is
Frankco> substantially less than I'd have to pay here in Holland,
Frankco> but I was still reluctant to buy given the nature of the
Frankco> material. I remember Simon Hopkins referring to it in
Frankco> The Wire as a seminal set of recordings. What are
Frankco> people's opinions about it here? Also, of all game
Frankco> pieces that Zorn wrote, only Cobra and Xu Feng appear to
Frankco> be played regularly. Are these by any standard his best
Frankco> accomplished game pieces? If so, why isn't there a
Frankco> recorded version of Xu Feng available?
I don't have the box set, but I still have old vinyl for some of the
material that ended up there, most notably Archery. When the box set
first surfaced and we discussed it a little bit here, I listened to
all of Archery one night, and the closest reference point I could find
was the King Ubu Orchestra, a textural melange with most of the
instruments unrecognizable, and no discernable structure either. Very
pointillistic, nothing like the various Cobra recordings I've heard.
And seminal merely means that it is a starting point for what came
later, not necessarily that it's inherently interesting.
I was at my local public library a month ago, and they had the entire
Butch Morris conduction set. Perhaps you might find the parachute set
in a local library, where you could listen for a while without making
the purchase.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions... funny thing about opinions, they can change.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:08:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dave Douglas
On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote:
> I'd like any thoughts and recommendations on Dave Douglas' cds. I have
> Masada 8 and 9, Five (with the string group) and amazing Tiny Bell's
> Live in Europe.
Sanctuary, Stargazer, and In Our Lifetime are essential. ESSENTIAL!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:10:44 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: MASADA 10
> >BTW, what is the exact name of MASADA 10? I have read various titles:
> >
> > YODH
> > RUACH
> > YOD
its called Yod, the hebrew letter. like every masada release.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:21:31 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Modern comp: electroacoustic (redux redux)
At 04:26 PM 9/29/98 PDT, Scott Handley wrote:
>Pardon my laziness, folks
This really has been covered before. Check out the archives at
ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/ around the end of March
of this year.
>but could we get some REALLY GREAT
>ELECTROACOUSTIC RECORDINGS lists broken-out....I mean, BRAG, ya'll!
I love this kind of music and have been listening to it probably more than
anything else lately (at least when I'm by myself), so I don't mind posting
more on the subject.
Since my last writeup on EA recordings, Bernard Fort's 12 Haiku has really
grown on me. At first listening it sounds kind of tame, fairly homogenous
collection of wispy white noise, but repeated listenings show me new things
each time, very complex sounds with subtle variations. And anyone who's
interested in the field who hasn't tried Dumitrescu, let me chime in with
another strong recommendation for the Pierres Sacrees album. Dumitrescu
has an uncanny ability to make instrumental recordings sound like EA
pieces. Two of the pieces on this record use prepared piano, and I'm
damned if I can hear much of it, a great use of Cage's instrument in ways
that Cage obviously never imagined. Very highly recommended.
>Seriously, though, how are the Computer Music series of CDs on Wergo,
>especially number 13 w/ the big ass book? Or for that matter what are
>any of the electroacoustic/digital/computer recordings on the Wergo
>label like? I could sure use some opinionated recommendation w/
>"descriptions" of the content and approach.
I've got five of the comps: 3, 4, 6, 9, and 10. My two favorites are 9,
which contains two works with piano (by Joji Yuasa and William Albright), a
stunning work with shakuhachi by Gerald Bennett, and one with percussion
ensemble by Thomas Delio. All of these works make excellent use of
silence, sparse textures, and depart well enough from many of the cliches
of electroacoustic music. My other favorite is #3, with a work each by
Francois Bayle, Richard Karpen, William Schottstaedt, and Johannes Goebel.
These are all fairly straight EA works, but all very well done.
Having been listening to a lot of EA music lately, I've come to recognize
stuff I like from stuff I don't. The Europeans, especially the French,
came to this music early, with two of the pioneers (Pierres Henry and
Schaeffer) as founders. There seems to be an attention to detail and
texture that I find lacking in a lot of American computer musicians,
perhaps stemming from the European origins of the music in radio studios
(with lots of sound effects and general manipulation equipment) rather than
the large computer laboratories of American universities. For whatever
reason, the American pieces in the Wergo series seem to be lots of the
bippity-boop-boop school of computer music, and don't have the complex
sounds and layers of the EA music I like best. Plus, a lot of the more
formal computer pieces hang on unreasonably to 'musical' elements like
pitch, harmony, lyrics, stuff which could be notated, whereas Bayle and his
associates at the GRM (an early French studio) seem to deal with raw sound,
finding or creating sounds in an external environment for further
manipulation (Bayle's piece on #3 takes its sounds from a creaking pulley
and running water).
The Wergo album I like the least is #4, which contains six pieces,
including a piece with chamber singers by Charles Dodge and a long piece
with voices by Roger Reynolds. These exemplify the noodling, relatively
pure, computer generated tones that I've grown to dislike (never fond of
operatically-trained voices to begin with). Volume 6 contains pieces with
solo wind instruments (flute, bass sax, etc.) which are ok, and volume 10
contains a couple of really screechy pieces for oboe and MIDI horn which
spoil the album for me.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #486
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