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1998-09-29
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #484
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, September 29 1998 Volume 02 : Number 484
In this issue:
-
re: who cares?
RE: who cares?
Fushitsusha on VICTO
Re: Special Bonus Post!
Messiaen
Re: Actual Post Regarding Zorn
Re: Messiaen
Re[2]: Special Bonus Post!
Costello/Bacharach
Re: modern composition
RE: modern composition
Re: Special Bonus Post
Re: complaining
Re: finaly, an idea hit upon
Modern comp: electroacoustic (redux redux)
Re: Costello/Bacharach
MASADA 10
Re: modern composition
Re: finaly, an idea hit upon
Re: Hypocrisy?
Re: Special Bonus Post!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:31:34 -0500
From: nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu>
Subject: re: who cares?
Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com> wrote:
> I believe that it's a mistake to compare this list to a local
> watering hole.
Charles, I have two nuggets of advice for you:
1. Don't quote the entire message you're replying to,
it's almost always a huge waste of bandwidth.
2. Maybe you should find another watering hole if
you don't like the flavor of the water here.
n
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:52:25 -0400
From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com>
Subject: RE: who cares?
n, I'll take your first nugget, and throw the
second one right back at you.
You completely missed my point; I enjoy
the flavor of the water here. It's just that the
color gets kind of funky sometimes!
Charles.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nils [SMTP:jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 11:32 AM
> To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: re: who cares?
>
> Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com> wrote:
>
> > I believe that it's a mistake to compare this list to a local
> > watering hole.
>
> Charles, I have two nuggets of advice for you:
>
> 1. Don't quote the entire message you're replying to,
> it's almost always a huge waste of bandwidth.
>
> 2. Maybe you should find another watering hole if
> you don't like the flavor of the water here.
>
> n
>
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:03:56 -0400
From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com>
Subject: Fushitsusha on VICTO
Hello folks on the Zorn-list,
Has anybody yet heard the new Fushitsusha release on
Les Disques Victo (VICTO 060, 1998), "Withdrawe, this
sable Disclosure ere devot'd"? I know that it is live
at the Festival International de Musique Actuelle Victoriaville,
Canada from May 16, 1997. Do any of you have reviews?
Is it dense Fushitsusha or tinkering Fushitsusha?
Thanks.
David "Just bought a plane ticket from Tennessee to NYC to see Fushitsusha
on Halloween" K.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:04:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Special Bonus Post!
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Gene Natalia wrote:
> Finally, John Zorn came out wearing his reddish orange T-shirt and
> grotesquely gaudy fluorescent camouflage muscle pants, which for some
> reason, he must always wear. Initially it seemed to me that he wore the
> same clothes at every show, even on consecutive nights, but my new theory
> is that he has a legion of these garments in his closet, for they are
> always clean.
yeah, what's up with that? does anyone ever see him around town dressed
like this?
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:02:04 EDT
From: DRoyko@aol.com
Subject: Messiaen
In a message dated 98-09-29 02:38:16 EDT, you write:
>Maybe someone could recommend some other Messiaen?
My favorite Messiaen tends to be his more lush works, rather than his pieces
with a heavy percussion bent or his song cycles.
Two favorite works in this vein are:
- -Turrangalila symphony (in Previn's recording, though I've yet heard a
recording of this work I dislike--I have 6)
- -Le Ascension (in the orchestral version). Stokowski's on London is my
favorite here (I don't know if it's ever been CD'd).
- -And I adore the quartet for the end of time, and of the dozen or so versions
I know, my favorite is the one w/ Gruenberg on Angel/EMI.
His organ works took me much getting used to, but I've come to enjoy many. His
long, bird-song oriented piano cycles also took me awhile, and I still blow
hot and cold on them.
His St Francis of Asisi opera does little for me, but I've never been drawn to
many latter-half-20th Century operas.
Hope this is of some help,
Dave Royko
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:15:36 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Actual Post Regarding Zorn
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:16:31 -0400 Alan Lankin wrote:
>
> A recent mailing from Downtown Music Gallery implies that there'll be a
> series of live Masada albums coming up. Any more info on this??
This is old info (Douglas mentioned it to me in 1995!), but there was a
project to release the following two sets on Tzadik:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** - LIVE IN JERUSALEM: Masada
???? - Tzadik (USA), ??? (CD)
Note: not released yet.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** - LIVE AT MOGADOR: Masada
???? - Tzadik (USA), ??? (CD)
Note: not released yet.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:34:45 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Messiaen
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:07:06 -0700 Gene Natalia wrote:
>
> I'd say Messiaen is very relevant to this list since Zorn has covered a
> piece by Messiaen with Naked City on Grand Guignol. I only have one
> Messiaen disc, so I don't feel qualified to recommend anything by him
> relative to other pieces by him, but I enjoy my Quatuor pur la Fin du
> Temps(Quartet for the End of Time), which contains the piece that Zorn
> covered. Maybe someone could recommend some other Messiaen?
CHRONOCHROMIE, COULEURS DE LA CITE CELESTE, ET EXPECTO RESURECTIONEM
MORTUORUM are three great pieces for orchestra. They illustrate at perfection
Messiaen's rhythmic talent and control of orchestral masses (with such a
level of rhythmic, harmonic, and contrapunctal complexity, the pieces could
end up a total mess; there are amazingly clear and fascinating). If I remember
well, you can find all three on one CD with Boulez conducting.
Another favorite is 3 PETITES LITURGIES DE LA PRESENCE DIVINE, which is mainly
a vocal piece with strings and Ondes Martenot.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 11:16:57 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Special Bonus Post!
Brent wrote:
>yeah, what's up with that? does anyone ever see him around town dressed
>like this?
Ah, Zornian fashion--certainly a proper topic for this list!
The last few times I've seen Zorn on the streets (actually, usually
prowling the bins at Other Music), he's been sporting a black leather
jacket, but not the camo pants.
Way, way back, around 1976-77, before the world knew of Zorn, he would
cut quite the figure at various "loft" jazz venues. Typically, he'd
arrive on bicycle, hair down past his waist, wearing gold and red
football knickers and those thick, geekish glasses he's since
discarded. Who'da thunk he'd come this far?
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:47:24 +0200 (MEST)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: Costello/Bacharach
well i'm a bit confused that noone sent a review of that one so far....
so here is my first impression,,
it sounds alot like bacharach in the old days (reach out etc.)..
since the liner notes say "all songs composed by burt bacharach and elvis
costello" i thought that both of them composed the music..but it sounds so
much like bacharach that i now believe that costello did the lyrics only
(anyone know anything about that??).
to make the record more list related : greg cohen plays bass on it.
i really like it and i think that there will be some new bacharach
standarts after that record...
for example song #5 called "tears at the birthday party"
well anyways if u like bacharach u should by it...
BJOERN
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:12:03 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: modern composition
Most of the classical music I listen to is electroacoustic, which I think
we've gone over here in depth a few times. The two acoustic classical
recommendations I'd make to Zorn listeners starting to dip a toe into
classical are the two CD set of Xenakis' complete string quartets by the
Arditti on Montaigne and pretty much anything by Iancu Dumitrescu,
particularly volumes 1 and 3 of his Edition Modern series.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:45:03 -0400
From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net>
Subject: RE: modern composition
I can highly recommend Zappa's Yellow Shark and Civilization Phase III. ( I
once asked Zorn if he'd ever consider playing/recording any Zappa works, he
sort of laughed it off without answering). Might I also be so bold to
suggest the recent releases by Sonic Youth on their own SYR label.
Jeff Kent
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:39:21 -0500
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Special Bonus Post
Brent Burton wrote:
>
> On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Gene Natalia wrote:
>
> > Finally, John Zorn came out wearing his reddish orange T-shirt and
> > grotesquely gaudy fluorescent camouflage muscle pants, which for some
> > reason, he must always wear. Initially it seemed to me that he wore the
> > same clothes at every show, even on consecutive nights, but my new theory
> > is that he has a legion of these garments in his closet, for they are
> > always clean.
>
> yeah, what's up with that? does anyone ever see him around town dressed
> like this?
With the possible exceptions of Jamaaladeen Tacuma, and(for
those with
really long memories), Moondog, Zorn has always been the nattiest
fashion plate on the NY music scene. ;-)
RW
- -
------------------------------
Date: 29 Sep 1998 19:22:29 GMT
From: Mike_Chamberlain@babylon.montreal.qc.ca (Mike Chamberlain)
Subject: Re: complaining
Christian Heslop,xian@mbay.net,Internet writes:
>I object to your complaints. Something needs to be done about people like
>you.
>>Chris Genzel wrote:
>>I hereby wish to complain about the people on this list who are complaining
>>about the people on this list who are complaining that too many people on
>>this
>>list are complaining.
Can't we take this to the Listserv Central Board of Directors and get all the
complainers kicked out? I think I'm going to file a formal complaint.
- --Mike
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:22:26 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: finaly, an idea hit upon
Charles Jacobus wrote:
>
> In response to Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com:
>
> While I would agree that Zorn's (as with so many other artist's of
> that generation) compositional methods are process-oriented and that
> that method may be an integral part of making the sounds he makes,
> I don't think that an appreciation of the method (or even a knowledge or
> understanding of it, for those who haven't had the privilege of seeing
> him perform) is required to appreciate the music.
However, in Zorn's game pieces where the compositional method/process
virtually IS the composition, the only interesting thing would be to see
them because musically, they often result in some pretty worthless shit.
Zorn has himself has said that he cares more for the process than the
product so it's the process we should be paying attention to.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:26:34 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: Modern comp: electroacoustic (redux redux)
John Abbey wrote:
>Most of the classical music I listen to is electroacoustic, which I
think
>we've gone over here in depth a few times.
Caleb Dupree wrote:
>Parmegiani and Bayle (both electroacousticians extraordinaire)
Pardon my laziness, folks, but could we get some REALLY GREAT
ELECTROACOUSTIC RECORDINGS lists broken-out....I mean, BRAG, ya'll!
Seriously, though, how are the Computer Music series of CDs on Wergo,
especially number 13 w/ the big ass book? Or for that matter what are
any of the electroacoustic/digital/computer recordings on the Wergo
label like? I could sure use some opinionated recommendation w/
"descriptions" of the content and approach.
Thanks and all!
- --sh
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:06:10 -0400
From: Circle9 <caliban@ctol.net>
Subject: Re: Costello/Bacharach
I just picked it up yesterday- and I must say, I wasn't immediately thrilled.
A few more listens and it might grab me more- I don't know, sometimes an EC
album will grow on me in time (It took me two years to realize just how much I
liked "Mighty Like a Rose"). My main complaint, though, would ne EC's vocals.
They don't really feel right for the music- perhaps if they had brought in one
of the old legends of the Bacharach camp to sing them, they would have had a
greater impression on me. (I read a review that said it shoud have been Luther
Vandross' gig. Hmmm... Perhaps.). Still, I've been really happy with EC's
output over the last four-five years, so perhaps I over-hyped it to myself.
Not nearly the dissapointment the new Brian Wilson was (but then I half
expected that...)
-S.
BJOERN wrote:
> well i'm a bit confused that noone sent a review of that one so far....
>
> so here is my first impression,,
> it sounds alot like bacharach in the old days (reach out etc.)..
> since the liner notes say "all songs composed by burt bacharach and elvis
> costello" i thought that both of them composed the music..but it sounds so
> much like bacharach that i now believe that costello did the lyrics only
> (anyone know anything about that??).
> to make the record more list related : greg cohen plays bass on it.
> i really like it and i think that there will be some new bacharach
> standarts after that record...
> for example song #5 called "tears at the birthday party"
> well anyways if u like bacharach u should by it...
>
> BJOERN
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:25:08 -0400
From: "Mark Corroto" <mcorroto@alumni.ysu.edu>
Subject: MASADA 10
Don't ask how
but I have two unopened copies of Masada 10
in front of me
Someone please respond (off-list 0f course) and send
me the sum of $16
and I'll mail you the disk
mc
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:42:48 -0400
From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: modern composition
I appreciated Caleb Deupree's excellent overview of recent "concert hall"
composers, which included a couple of names I didn't recognize. It seems to
me that one of the things Zorn is all about (I suppose this is obvious) is
rejecting the restraints on listening abilities which allow us to hear, say,
Bird but not Bartok. Allow me to add a few more names which may be of
interest --
Franco Donatoni was here (Boston) this last weekend. Amazingly dense,
driven stuff. Somewhere between Ligeti and Xenakis.
Sciarrino -- John Cage meets Scelsi.
Lachenmann -- beautifully crafted, elegant, and the most irritating music I
know.
Ferneyhough -- the thinking man's freakazoid. Hideously intelligent,
complex like nuclear fusion.
And of course the old, oft-mentioned guys: Ives, Partch, Ruggles, Feldman,
even Bartok.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:33:05 -0400
From: Taylor McLaren <tmclaren@uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Re: finaly, an idea hit upon
MEEP! Tom Pratt wrote:
>Zorn has himself has said that he cares more for the process than the
>product so it's the process we should be paying attention to.
I'm not so sure about that. As musicians, after all, I'd imagine that the
participants are involved in such performances as much as
technique-building exercises and "serious fun" as much as anything else; as
a selfish listener, I don't really give a damn whether or not the
performers feel that they have expanded their grasp of musicianship at the
end of the show. I don't question that the process is as much a part of the
experience as the music, but if the result is unlistenable shit, what was
the point of trying to listen to it in the first place? Would I be dredging
up a bad memory by mentioning Spruance's reaction to _Weird Little Boy_ again?
- -me
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:18:57 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy?
Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com wrote:
> allthough i must admit i was disapointed that "who cares" was not from the
> notorious nightclub crawler and sometime calvin klien model who also goes by
> Gene Natalia (or the simular Jenny Talia)
I think I'm somewhat relieved that I only just now "got" this pretty weak
joke-o-nym.
> i agree with ehan that the bulk of
> this list is crap
That's a disappointment, but I beg to differ with you and Ethan both.
> no conversation about music or aesthitics other than high
> school lunch room drivel about "gee did you get the new album? it's great."
You must not have been here for very long. There have been any number of
detailed, lengthy and occasionally heated debates about the finer points of
aesthetics here. Not to mention long. long threads on the recording one might buy
to attain an understanding of any number of esoteric musical styles, from Japanese
noise to musique concrete. Honestly, I consider this here little list to be as
valuable to my shopping decisions as The Wire and other generally agreed-upon
sourcees. Perhaps you just haven't been around long enough to notice?
> the biggest debate has boiled down to the same old "i'm cooler than you" shite
> common to lockerooms.
Shite common to most mailing lists I've ever seen, as well. But I would argue
that there are far fewer oneupsmanship contests and pissing matches here than on
just about any other list I've been on.
And if all this fine grammar fails to convince you, well, like Dale said... or
better yet, if what you see is less than you expect, then offer a higher standard
yourself rather than insulting those here with you.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:37:16 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Special Bonus Post!
Brent Burton wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Gene Natalia wrote:
>
> > Finally, John Zorn came out wearing his reddish orange T-shirt and
> > grotesquely gaudy fluorescent camouflage muscle pants, which for some
> > reason, he must always wear. Initially it seemed to me that he wore the
> > same clothes at every show, even on consecutive nights, but my new theory
> > is that he has a legion of these garments in his closet, for they are
> > always clean.
>
> yeah, what's up with that? does anyone ever see him around town dressed
> like this?
Yes, twice on the street and once at an Ornette Coleman concert at Lincoln
Center, which leads me to think it more than a coincidence.
Steve Smith
ssmtih36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #484
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