ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v02.n483

Internet Message Format | 1998-09-28 | 22KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #483
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest      Tuesday, September 29 1998      Volume 02 : Number 483



In this issue:
-
       Re: modern composition
       Re: Who cares?
       Re: Who cares?
       Re:  reading and zorn show
       Philip K. Dick "Flow My Tears, The Policeman said..."
       Nancarrow (Re  Modern Composers, was Re: reading and zorn show)
       Collecting Music
       Re: Collecting Music
       Re: Collecting Music
       Re: modern composition
       complaining
       Re:  saxello
       masada 10 & songs, we know
       Re: reading and zorn show
       Re: complaining
       RE: finaly, an idea hit upon
       Re: modern composition
       re: who cares?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:28:54 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: modern composition

At 06:04 PM 9/28/98 -0700, Christian Heslop wrote:
>Just in case...I really liked Absinthe.

Yeah, me too.

>Would anyone on this list care to discuss who among modern composers they
>would recommend to an ever inquisitive musical taste?I've been meaning to
>listen to some Conlon Nancarrow or something.What would anyone recommend of
>Varese's outside of Ionisation, Ameriques, and LeCroix de Sud.Would anyone
>like to discuss Messiaen?I know that these things aren't directly Zorn
>related, but a strong connection can be made. I would really enjoy an
>intelligent musical discussion. I wouldn't mind learning something new.

I'll second the recommendations for Messaien.  In my youth I fancied myself
a pianist, and thus acquired many of his recordings for piano, both solo
and in groups.  Among my favorite pieces of his are the Quatre Etudes de
Rythme, which contains the historic piece Modes de Valeurs et Intensites,
one of the first attempts at what would become complete serialization.
It's a fascinating piece, as are the other three etudes in the set.  A
longer work is his Vingt Regards sur l'enfant Jesus, which also opens up to
his mysticism.  He was also fascinated with birdsong, and he wrote several
pieces which he claimed were pretty much direct transcriptions, albeit
transposed and otherwise modified.  These are collected in the set
Catalogue d'oiseaux.  His extended orchestral work From the Canyons to the
Stars is also worth hearing.  All in all, Messaien extended the language of
the piano considerably.  Recently I had my first opportunity to hear some
of his work for organ, which was also amazing, and not at all what I'd
expected -- peaceful, extended works which don't really sound like organ
music at all.

The range of composition is extensive.  Ligeti's work is becoming available
in a complete edition, and his orchestral and choral pieces (Lux Aeterna
was featured in Kubrick's 2001) are well worth hearing.  I'll also second
Xenakis, especially his electronic pieces, both the set on EMF and La
Legende d'Eer on Montaigne.  The late 20th century wouldn't be the same
without Stockhausen and Boulez -- check out Kontakte, Aus den Sieben Tagen
(From the Seven Days) or Stimmung by the former and the piano sonatas, Pli
Selon Pli, or the Rituel/Eclat Multiples set by the latter.  Most of
Stockhausen's great work is only available in expensive German editions,
but the three works mentioned should be relatively easy to find.  And I
can't forget John Cage, so many wonderful pieces for prepared piano
(Sonatas and Interludes) and various combinations (look for the Hat Hut New
York School collections or any of the excellent series on Mode).

The composers you mentioned are all early-mid 20th century.  More
contemporary, active in recent times, would be Parmegiani and Bayle (both
electroacousticians extraordinaire), Jonathan Harvey (look for Bhakti),
Toru Takemitsu (many wonderful works -- start with November Steps for
traditional Japanese instruments and orchestra or the Film Music set on
Nonesuch), Scelsi (very sparse and abstract, inspirational for JZ's quieter
works like Redbird), Rzewski (another second, especially his masterpiece,
The People United, another catalogue of extended piano techniques, but in a
relatively easy to comprehend structure and containing improvisation as
well as composition).

Good listening.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:54:56 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Who cares?

Charles Jacobus wrote:

> Gene.

No, Steve.

> Let's be real here. Recommended readings and listenings is one
> thing. How everybody organizes their record collection is another.

Respectfully, no it isn't.  It's all just talk amongst folks with somewhat
similar tastes -- the point of subscribing to a mailing list, no?  Given that,
what difference does it truly make if someone is recommending specific
recordings or books, or simply relating the ways in which he or she organizes
his or her recordings, and, by extension, his or her life?

What I mean to say is, if I were hanging with anyone on this list at the local
watering hole (and I've been lucky enough to do so on several occasions), I most
certainly wouldn't get bent if we started talking about how we organized our
collections.  What difference does it truly make, therefore, if we do the same
online?  Is "bandwidth" honestly that scarce a resource?  If not, I repeat,
everyone's always got his or her delete button at hand, and no one's forcing
anyone to read anything at all...

My view of the Zornlist is that it is actually more than just a mailing list of
people who talk about a finite number of CDs, but rather that of a community
that exists here in "cyberspace" because it cannot exist in the real world,
geographically speaking.  Otherwise, we'd just form a club and build a
clubhouse, no?  Therefore, I respectfully submit, chatter about the order in
which we arrange our recordings is as germane as anything else.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:59:36 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Who cares?

[e-mail] wrote:

> I'm still salivating on every possible opportunity to use "from the horse's
> mouth by proxy." Thanks loads for that one Steve! <G>

Use it freely while you can, Dale...  I'm urging Bobby Previte to use it for the
title of his upcoming release by his band "The Horse..."    ;-)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:56:40 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  reading and zorn show

In a message dated 9/28/98 21:51:07, you wrote:

>I've been meaning to
>
>listen to some Conlon Nancarrow or something.

i mainly got into (like i'm his biggest fan) nancarrow because zappa mentioned
him a lot.  i have the Studies disc which is music for player piano and other
pieces performed by the Ensemble Modern. this is the same ensemble that
performed the pieces on zappa's Yellow Shark record. i have heard other works,
but since i don't own them i can't speak intelligently about them.

on a completely unrelated note:
i have read a few books by william gibson (neuromancer, the difference engine,
burning chrome, and virtual light) and was looking for the next one i should
get. i can only think of mona lisa overdrive, idoru, and count zero. did i
forget any? what's best?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:39:32 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Adam MacGregor)
Subject: Philip K. Dick "Flow My Tears, The Policeman said..."

Hey kids,

Kinda an irrelevant question (well, depending on how you look at it) but the
NJ grindcore band Discordance Axis has a tune called "Flow My Tears, The
Policeman
Said" on thier last LP "Jouhou."  I was wondering if anybody on the list
could provide me with any connection between the two (i.e. what the story is
about, or if anybody has even actually heard of d.a. in respect to that
subject matter.)

thanks,

Adam


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:41:08 +0200
From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Nancarrow (Re  Modern Composers, was Re: reading and zorn show)

there is a Wergo 1988 rerecording I think.
Anything in Zorn that is Nancarrow related? ;-)

Stephane

- -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
To: Christian Heslop <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Dienstag, 29. September 1998 03:25
Subject: Re" Modern Composers, was Re: reading and zorn show


:I must say, I've never gotten totally involved with Nancarrow's work. I
:have the player piano series on 1750 Arch (have those been superceded by
:better recordings?)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:06:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Bramy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Collecting Music

My problem is with the "classical" stuff.

Do I file Kronos Quartet's CD of Gorecki's String Quartets with the Kronos
discs or the Gorecki discs?

- -Todd



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:19:36 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Collecting Music

> My problem is with the "classical" stuff.
>
> Do I file Kronos Quartet's CD of Gorecki's String Quartets with the
Kronos
> discs or the Gorecki discs?

Put them wherever you're more likely to look for them. I've got some guy
playing Scriabin, but I've got no idea who, but then again if I had heaps
of Kronos, I'd like them together...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:31:29 +0200
From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Collecting Music

Why is a raven like a writing desk?
Because there is a b in both
(Lewis Carroll)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd Bramy <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Dienstag, 29. September 1998 10:09
Subject: Collecting Music


:My problem is with the "classical" stuff.
:
:Do I file Kronos Quartet's CD of Gorecki's String Quartets with the Kronos
:discs or the Gorecki discs?
:
:-Todd
:



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:38:42 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: modern composition

> The range of composition is extensive.  Ligeti's work is becoming available
> in a complete edition,

Actually, they would be released this year on Sony Classical, but I
heard Ligeti and Pekka Salonen (the conductor of most of the pieces)
had a difference of opinion and Ligeti wanted the edition to be
cancelled. I have most of the released recordings and they are
fantastic. The only works that still have to be re-recorded and
released are the large orchestra-pieces (Lontano, San Fransisco
Polyphonie, Cello Concerto, Piano Concerto etc.), the electronic
pieces and the opera. But don't despair! I was in Cologne last
week to visit the Robert Rauschenberg exhibition (go there if you
can!!!) and found in a local cd-store two 3-cd boxes with the old
Ligeti recordings on Wergo. Get these if you can because they're
specially priced and they are a nice replacement for the time being.
In US$ I paid only $20 for one box!

Jeroen

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:35:11 +0200
From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: complaining

 I hereby wish to complain about the people on this list who are complaining
 about the people on this list who are complaining that too many people on this
 list are complaining.

 16 tons. A cat. No. 2: the larch.

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:24:06 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  saxello

[e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
wrote:

>Anyway, my question is this: Purcell is listed as playing saxello. What
>is a saxello? It sounds like there's a soprano sax in the mix so I
>suspect it has something of the range and tone of a soprano, but I'd
>like to know more about it.
>
>I think the manzello and stritch are straight versions of the  tenor
>and alto (or is it alto and tenor?). But the saxello?

I would be happy to be corrected if wrong, but here is my understanding.
The sax family is a relatively new family of instruments, invented & developed
in the 1800's & not refined until the early part of the 1900's.

There are many "lost" instruments [weird key arrangements, etc.] from the
development of the instrument that you can sometimes run accross [most often
on the walls of music stores or horn repair shops on display] - some of them
are really quite twisted looking.

Anyway, before they came up with what is now considered the "standard" sax
family of soprano/alto/tenor/baritone, there were other instruments that, for
one reason or another, never caught on. You can play these instruments using
the same fingering & mouth chops as a "regular" sax, but their range is
different.

The C Melody is one such instrument.
The other [with a range between an alto & soprano sax] is another.

There are a few regular players of saxello; most famously [to me at least!]
Elton Dean has used one for basically all of his professional life, as a often
used "double" along with his alto work.

Steve F.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:54:53 -0400
From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject: masada 10 & songs, we know

Has Masada 10 been available long?  Just saw it this past weekend.
Any good, or should I say does it come close to great Masada 9 ?  Bill
Frisell and Fred Hersch (piano) have released a great album on
Nonesuch - Songs, We Know.  Have only listened all the way through a
couple of times so far, but it sounds wonderful.  A definate
recommendation.

Bob



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:29:58 -0700
From: "Christian Heslop" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: reading and zorn show

Count Zero...by far.

- ----------
> From: [e-mail]

> on a completely unrelated note:
> i have read a few books by william gibson (neuromancer, the difference
engine,
> burning chrome, and virtual light) and was looking for the next one i
should
> get. i can only think of mona lisa overdrive, idoru, and count zero. did
i
> forget any? what's best?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:33:36 -0700
From: "Christian Heslop" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: complaining

I object to your complaints. Something needs to be done about people like
you.


Chris Genzel wrote:
I hereby wish to complain about the people on this list who are complaining
about the people on this list who are complaining that too many people on
this
list are complaining.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:43:57 -0400
From: Charles Jacobus <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: finaly, an idea hit upon

In response to [e-mail]:

While I would agree that Zorn's (as with so many other artist's of
that generation) compositional methods are process-oriented and that
that method may be an integral part of making the sounds he makes,
I don't think that an appreciation of the method (or even a knowledge or
understanding of it, for those who haven't had the privilege of seeing
him perform) is required to appreciate the music. My introduction to Zorn
came first through recordings and only later through live performances.
With very little background on Zorn, I listened to the CDs I purchased
with excitement and appreciation and, it turns out, with a pretty good
idea of what was going on in the music or what was going on stage in,
say, Cobra: Live at the Knitting Factory.

Charles.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:    [e-mail] [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    Monday, September 28, 1998 9:24 PM
> To:    [e-mail]
> Subject:    finaly, an idea hit upon
>
> my new pal ethan wrote:
>  While often the music is intense and enjoyable in and of itself, the
> truly
> marvelous experience is to observe how the music is made. To observe the
> subtle interactions between Zorn and the musicians and between the
> musicians
> themselves is more than a little exciting.  In fact, it is easy to get
> caught
> up in the "vibe" that is so obviously in existence on stage.  Their is an
> exuberance that exudes from the players of this music.  As they play their
> instruments as masters, they grin like children, for indeed they are
> playing a
> game.
>   certainly (in my opinion) seeing is integral to xu feng. i wouldn't have
> considered myself more than curious the first time i saw zorn, but upon
> seeing
> him perform xu feng i found myself (as well as my nonjazz listening
> companion)
> a fan. i would have to call xu feng and cobra something along the lines of
> process art, where by the music left after the process, in this case a
> madcap
> game, is only a tiny part of the actuall art. it would seem that to hear
> it
> alone is not to understand it. for people who take one listen to zorn, and
> runn screaming "noise, noise," they are not to far off base in many
> instances.
> makes you sad that zorn doesn't tour more
>
> any thoughts?
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:02:30 -0400
From: Marc Downing <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: modern composition

>>Would anyone on this list care to discuss who among modern composers they
>>would recommend to an ever inquisitive musical taste?I've been meaning to
>>listen to some Conlon Nancarrow or something.What would anyone recommend of
>>Varese's outside of Ionisation, Ameriques, and LeCroix de Sud.Would anyone
>>like to discuss Messiaen?I know that these things aren't directly Zorn
>>related, but a strong connection can be made. I would really enjoy an
>>intelligent musical discussion. I wouldn't mind learning something new.

I'll recommend Arvo Part.  He writes choral music, strongly influenced by
chant and devoutly christian.  He is a composer who writes for music for
architecture, following the tradition of sacred choral music and the gothic
cathedral.  For me, some of his music achieves an almost impossible state
of combined serenity and panic, especially his "miserere" (which would be
the music I'd blast from the helicopters if I were in command of a
battalion of demons sent to destroy the earth). Playing one of his
recordings in a building can cause it to flex dangerously!

Marc



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:01:48 -0400
From: Charles Jacobus <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: who cares?

    Let's be real here. Recommended readings and listenings is one
    thing. How everybody organizes their record collection is another.

    Steve wrote:

    > Respectfully, no it isn't.  It's all just talk amongst folks with
somewhat
    > similar tastes -- the point of subscribing to a mailing list, no?
Given that,
    > what difference does it truly make if someone is recommending
specific
    > recordings or books, or simply relating the ways in which he or
she organizes
    > his or her recordings, and, by extension, his or her life?

    > What I mean to say is, if I were hanging with anyone on this list
at the local
    > watering hole (and I've been lucky enough to do so on several
occasions), I most
    > certainly wouldn't get bent if we started talking about how we
organized our
    > collections.  What difference does it truly make, therefore, if we
do the same
    > online?  Is "bandwidth" honestly that scarce a resource?  If not,
I repeat,
    > everyone's always got his or her delete button at hand, and no
one's forcing
    > anyone to read anything at all...

    > My view of the Zornlist is that it is actually more than just a
mailing list of
    > people who talk about a finite number of CDs, but rather that of a
community
    > that exists here in "cyberspace" because it cannot exist in the
real world,
    > geographically speaking.  Otherwise, we'd just form a club and
build a
    > clubhouse, no?  Therefore, I respectfully submit, chatter about
the order in
    > which we arrange our recordings is as germane as anything else.

    Steve.

    I'm sorry. I thought the point of subscribing to the Zorn list was
to engage in
    discussions with like-minded (or sometimes, not so like-minded)
people about
    things like John Zorn the man; Zorn's music; the music of others who
work in
    the same or similar tradition as Zorn; music in general; or other
related topics
    of some cultural, intellectual or aesthetic interest.
    Steve, I'm glad you know maybe one or two subscribers to this list.
I happen to
    know at least one too. That doesn't mean that I send him mail
regarding my
    personal quips, habits and mannerisms through a public list. I do it
privately, a
    suggestion that quite a few other members have also recommended.
Anyway,
    I believe that it's a mistake to compare this list to a local
watering hole. It's not
    even a question of bandwidth. It's a question of time and of
consideration of
    context.

    p.s. Sorry about the name mix-up

    Charles.





- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #483
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]