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Zorn List Digest      Monday, September 28 1998      Volume 02 : Number 481



In this issue:
-
       saxello
       Hypocrisy?
       re 'who cares/patiently awaiting'
       Re: Hypocrisy?
       Re[2]: Recent Reading: Phil Dick
       valis I for sale
       Re: Hypocrisy?
       Evguenie Sokolov by Serge Gainsbourg
       Re:  Re: Hypocrisy?
       Re: Hypocrisy?
       Re: Hypocrisy?
       Off topic
       Actual Post Regarding Zorn
       Re: Lethem, Powers, Delaney
       Re: Hypocrisy?
       masada question
       If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:03:22 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: saxello

I've been listening to the new World Sax CD, "Selim Sivad,'' (very
pleasant -- they finally have a seamless relationship with the African
drummers). The new sax guy -- the fourth since Hemphill left -- is John
Purcell (concidence that Jack Dejohnette plays piano on two cuts --
those two arranged by his former sideman?)

Anyway, my question is this: Purcell is listed as playing saxello. What
is a saxello? It sounds like there's a soprano sax in the mix so I
suspect it has something of the range and tone of a soprano, but I'd
like to know more about it.

I think the manzello and stritch are straight versions of the  tenor
and alto (or is it alto and tenor?). But the saxello?

Re: Shorter's "Orgasm'' -- $100 for vinyl? I found a near perfect vinyl
copy a few years ago for $1.99, which I would gladly give up for $50
(then buy the CD). Unfortunately, it's in a Steve Martin (the comedian)
jacket. (Martin has a fake nose and balloon on his head). But I'm glad
I'm not the guy who pulled out his "Orgasm" cover to find Martin
inside....



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:17:01 -0500
From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Hypocrisy?

Is anyone else here amused by the fact that Gene Natalia (Ethan?) ranted at
length about how much he hated all the off-topic discussion about
arrangement of collections, and yet here he is contributing to an even more
off-topic discussion about Science Fiction?  At least with the collection
arrangement there was a connection (albeit somewhat tenuous) to Zorn's
music.  The only direct musical connection I know to Philip K. Dick is
through Gary Numan.

Personally I couldn't care less what topic people want to discuss.  I have
a delete key and I know how to use it.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:25:23 -0400
From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject: re 'who cares/patiently awaiting'

Haven't read 99 % of this thread thanks to digest format of zorn list
offered.  With other listservs a digest format cuts messages to a crawl.
For the Zorn listserv I am in serious need of digest version of the digest
list...  On the other hand, the fans' imitation of the composer's voluminous
output of material is amusing I suppose.

happy listening

Bob

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:29:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy?

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Craig Rath wrote:

> Is anyone else here amused by the fact that Gene Natalia (Ethan?) ranted at
> length about how much he hated all the off-topic discussion about
> arrangement of collections, and yet here he is contributing to an even more
> off-topic discussion about Science Fiction?  At least with the collection
> arrangement there was a connection (albeit somewhat tenuous) to Zorn's
> music.  The only direct musical connection I know to Philip K. Dick is
> through Gary Numan.

So now we're stumbling through the minefields where the gripes of Rath are
stored?-)

There are actually several more interesting connections to PKDick. The
Mabou Mines performance group, for whom Zorn composed "The Bribe", did a
fascinating theatrical production of his "Flow My Tears, The Policeman
Said" (though I don't recall who did the music for it). As others have
noted, Bill Laswell has named several CDs after his works. Tod Machover
did an opera of his "Valis".

FWIW, I tend to shelves his books according to how closely the titles
sound like the syllable "STOMP".

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:36:36 -0400
From: "Chris Barrett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re[2]: Recent Reading: Phil Dick

As long as we're on the Philip K. Dick thread, I wonder if anyone has read
any of his non-Sci-Fi output.  I have one short novel called "Mary and the
Giant" which is about a man in the 1950's who moves to either the south
west or the Southern Californian desert in the '50s (I can't remember
where, it's been a while since I read it) to open his lifelong dream of a
record store for collectors.  It kind of reminds me of a poorman's
Steinbeck, but not quite as bleak.

It also has one of my favorite Dick quotes, "Anyone can love music.  It's
what not to like you have to learn," or something to that effect.  (I know,
I know, for one of my favorite quotes you'd think I could remember it
exactly).

Does anybody know of any other non-Sci-Fi works?

- -Chris

PS  2 of hsi sci-fi works that I thought were pretty good but didn't see
mentioned were "The World Jones Made" and "Now Wait For Last Year"



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:21:33 -0600
From: "M. Lewis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: valis I for sale

>At 12:22 AM 9/28/98 -0700, Gene Natalia wrote:

>>Incidentally, there is a 2 disc experimental hip hop compilation called
>>Valis II, put together by Bill Laswell, I think...

>There was also a Valis I, briefly available on Subharmonic.

i have "valis I" for sale if anyone is interested
- -louie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:30:58 -0700
From: Gene Natalia <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy?

At 01:17 PM 9/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Is anyone else here amused by the fact that Gene Natalia (Ethan?) ranted at
>length about how much he hated all the off-topic discussion about
>arrangement of collections, and yet here he is contributing to an even more
>off-topic discussion about Science Fiction?  At least with the collection
>arrangement there was a connection (albeit somewhat tenuous) to Zorn's
>music.  The only direct musical connection I know to Philip K. Dick is
>through Gary Numan.
>
>Personally I couldn't care less what topic people want to discuss.  I have
>a delete key and I know how to use it.
>
Obviously, you were unable to understand my post.  I never mentioned
anything about "off-topic."
My lengthy rant was about redundancy and the seeming need that many people
have to say something just to say something, regardless of whether that
something has worth to any but themselves.  And I did TRY to tie the
Dick/SF thread back into "relevancy" of the list by mentioning the Valis II
compilation.  Maybe you should read more carefully, before you attack
someone directly.  I think we all know how to use a delete key, but thanks
for reminding us all about it, pal.

                                    Ethan


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:26:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (Tosh)
Subject: Evguenie Sokolov by Serge Gainsbourg

Dear Zorn people,

This is the first title of my publishing venture.  It maybe some interest
to list members.  For those who are not interested - forgive me for sending
it out on the list!


Evguenie Sokolov  by Serge Gainsbourg (1928-1991)
ISBN  0-9662346-1-8     Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 97-80957
Translated from the  French by John and Doreen Weightman

        This is the one and only novel by the 20th century provocateur of
French pop music and film  - the legendary Serge Gainsbourg .   This
prototype lusty punk tore into the threads of French society with his
numerous films, music projects, and outlandish persona.   He made
recordings with Brigitte Bardot, Jane Birkin  and a scandalous recording of
"Lemon Incest" with his own daughter Charlotte.   If that wasn't bad
enough, he told Whitney Houston  live on French TV that he would love  'to
fuck' her.

        Evguenie Sokolov  is a novel about an artist who uses his
intestinal gases as the medium for his scandalous artwork.  What once was a
huge smelly and noisy problem in his social and sex life becomes a tool for
success in the early eighties art world.   Please note that there is also a
song by Gainsbourg called Evguenie Sokolov  of farting noises over a reggae
track.

Some quotes about Gainsbourg and the novel:



"Gainsbourg is both the best and the worst, yin and yang, white and black.
This Jewish little Prince from Russia whose dreams were probably fueled by
Andersen, Perrault and Grimm, became, when confronted by the tragic reality
of life, a moving or repugnant Quasimodo, depending on his and your state
of mind.  Hidden deep within this fragile, shy and aggressive man lies the
soul of a poet craving tenderness, truth and integrity."   Brigitte Bardot

"Serge Gainsbourg is one of the world's great eccentrics.  His kinky
obsessions, smothering fashion with tastelessness have catapulted him into
super stardom in France.

This is his only novel and you have never read anything like it  Evgueine
Sokolov will make you squirm.  It will make you laugh.  It also may very
well make you sick.  Gainsbourg's vision is his own: authentic and
convulsive.  But don't forget to hold your nose."   John Zorn

Gainsbourg takes one childish, cheap and tasteless one-joke idea and
manages to keep it entertaining enough to last for a whole book. he has an
envious command of adjectives and adverbs." Mark Webber, Pulp

For those who are interested, this book can be special ordered thru Amazon
and Barnes & Noble website as well as thru your local independent
bookstore.

Thanks,

- -----------------
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
- ----------------



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:59:16 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: Hypocrisy?

allthough i must admit i was disapointed that "who cares" was not from the
notorious nightclub crawler and sometime calvin klien model who also goes by
Gene Natalia (or the simular Jenny Talia), i agree with ehan that the bulk of
this list is crap. no conversation about music or aesthitics other than high
school lunch room drivel about "gee did you get the new album? it's great."
the biggest debate has boiled down to the same old "i'm cooler than you" shite
common to lockerooms.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:54:44 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy?

In a message dated 98-09-28 18:05:37 EDT,  [e-mail] writes:

<< i agree with ehan that the bulk of
 this list is crap >>

While being just this side of a hearty "fuck you," may I suggest, if you don't
like it here, get your own list.

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:05:41 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy?

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:59:16 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> allthough i must admit i was disapointed that "who cares" was not from the
> notorious nightclub crawler and sometime calvin klien model who also goes by
> Gene Natalia (or the simular Jenny Talia), i agree with ehan that the bulk of
> this list is crap. no conversation about music or aesthitics other than high
> school lunch room drivel about "gee did you get the new album? it's great."
> the biggest debate has boiled down to the same old "i'm cooler than you" shite
> common to lockerooms.

You are absolutely right: if all the smart persons that lurk on the list were
expressing their great opinions and deep insights, yes, the list would be
better.

Unfortunately, they seem to have a hard time to leave the "consummer seat" and,
in the rare occasions during which they reveal their existence, they do not
seem to be able to do more than complaining...

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:33:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: Off topic

Just finished the last digest. Not a single mention of music! (Let
alone Zorn.) Wonder what the newcomer might think. Call it initiation
into the Zornlist, where anything goes -- and where we aren't such
geeks that we only talk about abstract music. :-)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:48:56 -0400
From: Kevin Neales <[e-mail]>
Subject: Actual Post Regarding Zorn

I just got back from a weekend in New York.  I was lucky enough to see 3
sets of Masada at Tonic and Marc Ribot at the Knitting Factory.  Not to
get anyone's hopes up, but on the last night of Masada there was a
professional video crew there filming and recording the show.  I have no
idea where or if this footage will show up.

Also, I know this was covered before, but when I was in New York I
bought a copy of the special edition box Praxis-Metatron.  How rare is
this.  This is the first time that I had actually seen one for sale.


                                                   Later,
                                                      Kevin N.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:09:20 -0400
From: Circle9 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lethem, Powers, Delaney

I read Delaney's "Hogg" about a year ago- I thought it started very strongly, and
Hogg's monolgue where he introduces himself is downright hilarious, but as it
progressed I felt it all start to read the same- one violent sex scene after
another. Like trashy "erotica", only alot more violence. It's shock value died
very quickly. Every sexual "encounter" was pretty much the same.

Tim Powers I like a great deal- his "Expiration Date really knocked my socks off.
Also, I'm glad to see Jonathan Lethem's name pop up. I read "As She Climbed
Across the Table" a couple of months back and thought it was phenom. It's kind of
a love triangle between a man, a woman, and a black hole. Really neat, and
definately a strong PKD influence- though I get the impression JL is abit more of
a romantic, and not quite as batty. Of course I mean "batty" as the highest
possible compliment...

    -S


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:18:08 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy?

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> You are absolutely right: if all the smart persons that lurk on the list were
> expressing their great opinions and deep insights, yes, the list would be
> better.
>
> Unfortunately, they seem to have a hard time to leave the "consummer seat" and,
> in the rare occasions during which they reveal their existence, they do not
> seem to be able to do more than complaining...

That may be due to the fact that most of this list, or the most frequent
speakers, enjoy comparing methods of organizing CDs or other ridiculous
nonsense. Eventually you get this feeling of "why bother?"
While often times relatively worthwhile discussions are started from an
intelligent post, more often it seems that people ignore anything insightful
and truly expressive, like what usually comes from Gene Natalia, few and far
between as it may be.Ever notice how the most intelligent posts are the more
rare? like from Stephen Drury or David Slusser, or Rich Williams or Brian
Olewnick. There happen to be more frequent worthwhile posts from say...Steve
Smith or Jeff Spirer, because they're just (seemingly) nice and seem to be
trying to provide as much info as possible. Then there are people who have
free passes that say you don't have to post anything insightful or intelligent
as long as your posts are either quotes from your discography, or really
obnoxious retorts that are justified with a ":-)" at the end, to make them
seem cute.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:17:48 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: masada question

All right, an actual Zorn question (not that I minded the OT posts at all):

Masada is coming to San Francisco in November, and I am told that he uses a
"West Coast version" of the band -- but what does this mean? Say, Joey Baron
(no!) won't be there, for instance?

Later,
Ben

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:25:14 -0700
From: Gene Natalia <[e-mail]>
Subject: If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Okay, I give up.
MY cd collection numbers just over 900, and I have a 1000 disc cd shelf.  I
keep them all in alphabetical order, arranged in chronological order within
each artist, the most recent album being to the leftmost.  Any singles get
put to the right of the albums proper, also within chronological order.
Any live albums or greatest hits type things get put to the left of the
albums proper.  As for box sets, if the cd's can be removed from the box so
as to be filed with the other cd's, then I do so, leaving the husks at the
bottom of my shelves with any boxes that do not cooperate with this system.
 As for cd's by multiple artists, I do something earth-shattering!  That's
right, I put the cd where I'm going to look for it when I want it.  So,
even though on the Death Ambient cd Kato Hideki's name comes first, I put
it under Ikue Mori, since that's where I'm more likely to look for it,
especially since I have no other Kato Hideki cd's, unless I were to count
the Dying Ground cd, which I have filed under Eyvind Kang.  I do file
pseudonyms separately, so Chaos AD doesn't get to sit next to Squarepusher,
but maybe I should rethink this system.  As a matter of fact, maybe I'll
change that right now!  In any case, next comes the cdr's which I don't
count as cd's at all.  These go in their own little bastard subsection, in
no order at all.  The exception to this is the cdr which has been given
some sort of significant packaging, allowing it to disguise its bastard
nature and blend in with the other cd's.  There are only two of these
elevated bastards in my collection, but this number will likely grow in the
future.  Little bootleg tapes go in a jumble on the bottom shelf, and my
small stack of vinyl goes at the base of my bookshelf, in alphabetical
order, with 7"s separated.

Now for the real fun!  I have a 200 disc changer, so my method of listening
to my cd's tends to take this into consideration.  In fact, I make 25 disc
blocks which can be but on random.  So, I have, for example, a 25 disc
block of Sun Ra/Sun City Girls/Graham Connah/Splatter
Trio/Pigpen/Residents.  Or, I have another block with all 10 Masada discs
in it, plus the Bar Kokhba stuff, plus random other Jewish stuff.  I call
it my Great Big Radical Jew Block.  I have another block with Autechre,
Matmos, Bannlust, Farmers Manual, etc in it.  Sometimes it's hard to tell
exactly what disc is playing, so I keep the list of 200 on an Excel file so
I can refer to it when I need to figure out what's playing.  I also have a
discman patched into my auxilary line for listeing to indivual cd's, which
is essential for some cd's that are meant to be listened to in their
entirety as a single piece.  For those interested, I but my 200
disc-changer on bottom, with my receiver on top of that, my dual tape deck
on top of that, and my turntable on the very top.
I hope those of you who have not used your delete button yet are
snickering.  Don't be upset.  I'm a geek too, as well as a bit of an
asshole.  Although this post is all true, there is an element of satire.  I
hope you can cope with that.  I apologize to any who find me offensive, but
if you make judicious use of your delete button, you need never read
another post from me again!  And don't forget, I love you all.

                            Ethan "Geek" Danberry


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #481
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