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1998-09-27
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #480
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, September 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 480
In this issue:
-
RE: Who cares?
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
RE: Who cares?
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Dick
Re: Who cares?
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Solipsistic
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:24:54 -0400
From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com>
Subject: RE: Who cares?
There are others. We're just patiently holding our tongues. It is
frustrating.
Charles.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Natalia [SMTP:anubis9@concentric.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 1998 5:06 PM
> To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Who cares?
>
> Can we end this ridiculous thread where every geek on the list tells all
> the other geeks how he alphabetizes? Here's how I file my cd's: I put
> them where I can find them, which happens to be alphabetically. It's a
> personal thing that varies from person to person. I don't feel egocentric
> enough to detail to you all MY PERSONAL method of filing everything. I
> have a hard time believing that you all find one another's methods of
> categorization so intriguing that we need dozens of posts about it. I
> sure
> don't enjoy receiving 12 e-mails a day regarding where 2Live Crew goes in
> your collections. I notice a trend on this list where many people feel
> COMPELLED to get their 2 cents in, regardless of whether they're just
> being
> redundant or irrelevant. Can we shed these solipsistic tendencies? I
> can't believe there aren't others who share my sentiments. I apologize if
> I'm wrong, and everyone else enjoys a myriad of useless e-mails per day.
> I
> just hate sifting through all your posts every day to find the one or two
> worth reading. If I'm wrong, let me know. I do understand what it's like
> to find kindred spirits to discuss these sorts of thing with. I know not
> many people have cd collections that number in the hundreds, but get over
> it.
>
>
> Ethan Danberry
>
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 06:46:36 -0700
From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
I think John's recommendations of "A Scanner Darkly", "Ubik", and "The
Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch" should do nicely. I think one often
overlooked is "A Maze of Death".It's subject matter is particularly
relevant today, and it isn't often you get to meet a character named Ignatz
Thug. Dick's ubiquitious theological theme is strong in "Maze". He poses a
very interesting archetypal pattern of deity that I think is frighteningly
accurate. If those archetypes were not inspired by something else, then
Dick may very well have managed to divide all earthly gods into three very
distinct and easily assigned categories. Suggesting a deep commonality in
humankind's disparate beliefs. Not just a conceptual resemblance, but a
resemblance that suggests common ancestry rather than common
projection.(I'm really sorry if that doesnt make much sense; it's 6:00 in
the morning).But Scanner and Ubik are both beautiful novels. Scanner in
particular is one that will never cease to haunt you. I have enjoyed all of
Dick's novels, but have never been particularly fond os his short
stories...on the whole.
- ----------
> From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
... I need to read some Philip K. Dick in a
> hurry. Any pointers as to where to begin, and from thence to...?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:49:05 -0400
From: Caleb Deupree <cdeupree@interagp.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> writes:
Steve> Anyway, another relatively recent favorite book is Jeff
Steve> Noon's "Vurt," which I thought was one of the best new SF
Steve> concept novels since "Neuromancer." I was, admittedly,
Steve> less taken with "Pollen" and "Automated Alice." And in
Steve> general I am not an SF reader, so it's quite likely that
Steve> there are any number of fine things in that field that I've
Steve> missed.
A somewhat recent SF novel (1995) that I thought was very well done is
Gun with Occasional Music by Jonathan Lethem, which combines a strange
PKDick future with Raymond Chandler. And my vote on where to start
with PKDick is also Valis, but FWIW, Man in the High Castle was his
only Hugo winner.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions... funny thing about opinions, they can change.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:56:40 -0400
From: Marc Downing <mpdownin@fes.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: RE: Who cares?
>> I don't feel egocentric
>> enough to detail to you all MY PERSONAL method of filing everything.
Yes you do.
>> Can we end this ridiculous thread where every geek on the list tells all
>> the other geeks how he alphabetizes? Here's how I file my cd's: I put
>> them where I can find them, which happens to be alphabetically.
See? And don't call me a geek.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:08:32 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
At 09:49 AM 9/28/98 -0400, Caleb Deupree wrote:
>A somewhat recent SF novel (1995) that I thought was very well done is
>Gun with Occasional Music by Jonathan Lethem, which combines a strange
>PKDick future with Raymond Chandler.
I sent email to Steve on this book, which I also thought quite good. I am
wondering about his first book, _Amnesia Moon_.
Jeff
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:12:17 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Dick
At 12:22 AM 9/28/98 -0700, Gene Natalia wrote:
>Incidentally, there is a 2 disc experimental hip hop compilation called
>Valis II, put together by Bill Laswell, I think...
There was also a Valis I, briefly available on Subharmonic.
Jeff
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
Photography: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:09:15 EDT
From: TagYrIt@aol.com
Subject: Re: Who cares?
In a message dated 98-09-27 01:44:58 EDT, you write:
<<
In a message dated 9/26/98 17:37:25, you wrote:
>solipsistic
this is gonna be my new word of the week. great music, great books, now great
vocabulary words. this list has everything!
-
>>
I'm still salivating on every possible opportunity to use "from the horse's
mouth by proxy." Thanks loads for that one Steve! <G>
Dale.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:15:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: alissa bader <molbloo@interport.net>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
It's been a while since I've read Phillip Dick. But one of my personal
favorites is _The Man in the High Castle_. I really like the way the
author switches history around--the whole parallel universe thing. I also
like the Perky Pat/Connie Companion Doll dichotomy: that was first talked
about in _The Galactic Pot-Healer_, right? (again, it's been a while
since I've read his stuff, so I apologize in advance if I get the titles
wrong).
One thing to remember about Phillip Dick is he's more of an idealist than
a writer. His books don't, in general, come off as skillfully-written
novels. This is probably because he wrote many of them very quickly,
little to no time for revisions, etc. Not to say he's not worth reading
at all, on the contrary. But his style can be a bit weak and confusing,
so you have to look past that.
- --Alissa
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Christian Heslop wrote:
> I think John's recommendations of "A Scanner Darkly", "Ubik", and "The
> Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch" should do nicely. I think one often
> overlooked is "A Maze of Death".It's subject matter is particularly
> relevant today, and it isn't often you get to meet a character named Ignatz
> Thug. Dick's ubiquitious theological theme is strong in "Maze". He poses a
> very interesting archetypal pattern of deity that I think is frighteningly
> accurate. If those archetypes were not inspired by something else, then
> Dick may very well have managed to divide all earthly gods into three very
> distinct and easily assigned categories. Suggesting a deep commonality in
> humankind's disparate beliefs. Not just a conceptual resemblance, but a
> resemblance that suggests common ancestry rather than common
> projection.(I'm really sorry if that doesnt make much sense; it's 6:00 in
> the morning).But Scanner and Ubik are both beautiful novels. Scanner in
> particular is one that will never cease to haunt you. I have enjoyed all of
> Dick's novels, but have never been particularly fond os his short
> stories...on the whole.
>
> ----------
> > From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
> ... I need to read some Philip K. Dick in a
> > hurry. Any pointers as to where to begin, and from thence to...?
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 09:33:32 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Steve Smith wrote:
>Anyway, another relatively recent favorite book is Jeff Noon's "Vurt," which I
>thought was one of the best new SF concept novels since "Neuromancer." I was,
>admittedly,less taken with "Pollen" and "Automated Alice." And in general I am
>not an SF reader so it's quite likely that there are any number of fine things
>in that field that I've missed.
I always _want_ to like new SF much more than I end up actually
enjoying 99% of the things that come by (it has to be one of the most
watered-down literary genres around), but among those current writers
whose works I do enjoy with some regularity are:
Lucius Shepard
Gene Wolfe
Howard Waldrop
Jeez, there must be others, but many are hit and miss. Blaylock, Nancy
Kress (the novella version of 'Beggars in Spain' was wonderful),
Saberhagen.
Actually, easily the best SF novel I've read in years (though, AFAIK,
it garnered virtually no recognition in the SF field), was John
Updike's 'Toward the End of Time'. If your average SF writer had one
tenth of Updike's writing ability, the field would be in far healthier
shape.
Brian Olewnick
(NP: E. Sharp's 'Tocsin'
NR: 'Ulysses')
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:49:28 -0400
From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net>
Subject: Solipsistic
Solipsistic
Incidentally, the title of the new Henry Rollins book.
JK
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:12:03 -0400
From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese)
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
>At 09:49 AM 9/28/98 -0400, Caleb Deupree wrote:
>
>>A somewhat recent SF novel (1995) that I thought was very well done is
>>Gun with Occasional Music by Jonathan Lethem, which combines a strange
>>PKDick future with Raymond Chandler.
>
>I sent email to Steve on this book, which I also thought quite good. I am
>wondering about his first book, _Amnesia Moon_.
>
>Jeff
>http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom
>
>-
_Amnesia Moon_ I took as almost an homage to ole pkd, but a quite good one
which benefits from a more consistent and plotted approach than most of the
early pkd. However, it thereby suffers in loss of energy and general
mystery. It's a good meditation on loss and nostalgia that resolutely
refuses to explain itself too literally--which I see as of paramount
imporatance in this genre and something which pkd often fell victim to. Go
read pkd first (my votes _do androids dream..._, _valis_, _three
stigmata..._, _ubik_) and then this.
Jon mentioned Murakami, who definately is also plumbing the post pkd
universe. I haven't read his recent one's cause they haven't been
remaindered yet, but _Wild Sheep Chase_ a fun romp and highly recomended
and _Hard Boiled Wonderland..._ is simply profoundly strange though kinda
left me cold in the end.
One of the best current sf new new wave I've read is Jack Womack's
_Elvissy_, an abominatably sad sad novel about horrific alternate
realities, one of which tries to steal the other's Elvis to use his
deityhood to sell product. All told in frustrating future speak that
verbifies every adjective. This book contains many many sad, horrific,
just errie scenes so that the slightest human kindness shown toward the end
becomes a magnificent jesture. If the obvious 'avant-pop' sensibility of
the plot turns you off, don't be detered: real human feeling herin.
I thought _vurt_ was great romp, although it's pkd does punk was quite
obvious, it was all in good fun. I read this right after Ian Bank's
_walking on glass_ (good _gormengast_ references and general mystery feel,
but 'suprise shocker end a real snooze): what is it with Brit authors and
sex with one's sister?
I have to second the high recomendation for William T. Vollman--read him
before he self destructs on the 2000page violence meditation--or at least
his brilliant half; often unparsable from the self indulgent half.
_Rainbow Stories_ still remains the best introduction to his many facets
(good and bad). _Rifles_ was the most radical insertion of history into
his life or his life into history that has been hinted at throughout his
Seven Dreams project, and as as a slim volume it's good shot of that stuff
(_iceshirt_ and _father and crows_ are great also). Everything else has
it's ups and downs.
ok, shutting up now..,
Any body have recomendations for Don Webb or Steve Erickson?
matt
- ------
"Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it
kept them apart, spatially."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:32:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
My fave Phillip K Dick books haven't come up on the list yet, to my
surprise: The Divine Invasion, The Transmigration of Timothy Archer, and
Radio Free Albemuth. But I'd also strongly recommend A Scanner Darkly and
many others.
Not a great writer stylistically, but his ideas were top-notch and often
hilarious. For a good homage to PKD, read Michael Bishop's "The Secret
Ascension".
(It's been a while since I've read PKD -- been mostly reading Spinrad,
Ellison, and Delany (and I keep telling myself that one of these years,
I'll get back to writing my opera of Dhalgren).)
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:50:14 -0400
From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
At 09:33 AM 9/28/98 -0500, brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote:
>
> Lucius Shepard
> Gene Wolfe
> Howard Waldrop
>
> Jeez, there must be others, but many are hit and miss. Blaylock, Nancy
> Kress (the novella version of 'Beggars in Spain' was wonderful),
>
I really must urge you to check out Tim Powers if you haven't already.
Wonderfully intricate, loopy plots. Try _Last Call_, _Anubis Gates_ or _The
Stress of her Regard_.
- -Sean
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 12:47:26 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Joseph Zitt wrote:
>It's been a while since I've read PKD -- been mostly reading Spinrad,
>Ellison, and Delany (and I keep telling myself that one of these years,
>I'll get back to writing my opera of Dhalgren).)
Ah! There's the obvious one I left out of my previous brief list:
Delaney. "Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand" is a wonderful,
dense, SF meditation on all things Delaney, but outside of the
strictly SF genre, I'd highly recommend his autobiography, "The Motion
of Light on Water" as well as his utterly strange, stomach-turning
(for me, anyway, who's never considered, um, the gastronomical values
of the, how should I say this? the genital equivalent of toe jam),
obsessive and compelling "Mad Man". As a writer very much in vogue
among the literary elite (possibly the only black, gay, leftist in the
genre), it amused me how little (if ANY) coverage 'Mad Man' received
when it was published. It was as if the attitude was, "We like having
you fill your little niche, Samuel, but really! you've gone too, too
far here!" I haven't read his 'Hogg' yet, which apparently travels
down similar roadways (though written much earlier, it remained
"unpublishable" until recently). I've been meaning to reread
'Dhalgren' one of these days though; curious how it holds up.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:02:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote:
> Ah! There's the obvious one I left out of my previous brief list:
> Delaney. "Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand" is a wonderful,
> dense, SF meditation on all things Delaney,
Yeah! That's a wonderful book. I wish he'd get around to releasing the
second half of the diptych -- a few pages of it surfaced in a small zine a
few years back, but he's been off on other tangents (like the Neveryon
series, which, while interesting, are denser than neutrinos).
> As a writer very much in vogue
> among the literary elite (possibly the only black, gay, leftist in the
> genre), it amused me how little (if ANY) coverage 'Mad Man' received
> when it was published. It was as if the attitude was, "We like having
> you fill your little niche, Samuel, but really! you've gone too, too
> far here!"
Er, yeah. I ran across Mad Man in a used book store, and was surprised
that I hadn't heard about it... until I read it. Probably not the best
book to read during lunch. (I could imagine Naked City doing a soundtrack,
though...)
> I haven't read his 'Hogg' yet, which apparently travels
> down similar roadways (though written much earlier, it remained
> "unpublishable" until recently). I've been meaning to reread
> 'Dhalgren' one of these days though; curious how it holds up.
For me, it still works. But then, it's a favorite -- I think I've given
more people copies of it than any other book with the possible exception
of "The Elements of Style".
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #480
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