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1998-09-27
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #479
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, September 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 479
In this issue:
-
Re: Fantamos anyone?
Re: Who cares?
Re: radical science redux
Re: Who cares?
Re: Who cares?
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Who cares?
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Alan Shorter's "Orgasm"
Neubauten rec
RE: collection
Noel Akchote concerts?
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Neubauten rec
Re: Neubauten rec
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Neubaten rec
Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Re: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Philip K. Dick (was Re: Recent Reading)
Dick
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:24:05 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: Fantamos anyone?
On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, chad edwards wrote:
> I'll be making a special trip to Seattle on the 16th
> of next month just to see Fantamos.
> Can anyone who has seen them please brief me on what
> to expect?
special trip indeed, for a band you need to first be briefed on
theyre jagged metal/eerie/something. with "comic book sounds and babytalk" in
place of lyrics.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:36:51 -0300
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: Who cares?
Gene Natalia wrote:
>
lighten up, Francis...
> Can we end this ridiculous thread where every geek on the list tells all
> the other geeks how he alphabetizes? Here's how I file my cd's: I put
> them where I can find them, which happens to be alphabetically. It's a
> personal thing that varies from person to person. I don't feel egocentric
> enough to detail to you all MY PERSONAL method of filing everything. I
> have a hard time believing that you all find one another's methods of
> categorization so intriguing that we need dozens of posts about it. I sure
> don't enjoy receiving 12 e-mails a day regarding where 2Live Crew goes in
> your collections. I notice a trend on this list where many people feel
> COMPELLED to get their 2 cents in, regardless of whether they're just being
> redundant or irrelevant. Can we shed these solipsistic tendencies? I
> can't believe there aren't others who share my sentiments. I apologize if
> I'm wrong, and everyone else enjoys a myriad of useless e-mails per day. I
> just hate sifting through all your posts every day to find the one or two
> worth reading. If I'm wrong, let me know. I do understand what it's like
> to find kindred spirits to discuss these sorts of thing with. I know not
> many people have cd collections that number in the hundreds, but get over it.
>
> Ethan Danberry
>
> -
- --
Marilyn Crispell, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie
Workman discographies; Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000
Things; Time Stops; etc., at--
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:34:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Saidel Eric J <ejs4839@usl.edu>
Subject: Re: radical science redux
NO ZORN CONTENT HERE AT ALL!
Sorry for wasting bandwith on this, folks; I'm only sending this to the
list in case there happen to be others who are paying attention. If you
think this is a stupid waste of your time please delete.
Me:
>
> You should be aware, for example, that Pinker is
> >something of a genetic determinist: he thinks our behavior is caused by and
> >excused by our genes. This is an extremely radical view.
> ^^^^^^^
Matt:
> On a list self-conciously dedicated to all things 'radical', this is
> perhaps not the best way to debunk ole Pinker.
Right. I was using the word "radical" in a different sense. I just meant
that it was an extreme view, the same way the view that we are completely
products of our environments is an extreme view. I was not attempting
to debunk Pinker. As it turns out, I disagree with Pinker, but debunking
him would take much more time and space than I am willing to spend,
especially here.
Me again:
> A much more moderate
> >view is that behavior is caused by the interaction of our genes, our minds, and
> >the world.
Matt again:
>
> I'd just like to reiterate that what Eric probably also means in place of
> 'moderate' is 'accurate' and 'in accordance with everything we know about
> genetics--esp mammalian behaviour genetics'.
>
No. That's not what I meant. I do think the moderate view is more likely
to be true, given what we know about evolution, but what I meant was that
this view is moderate - it's not extreme. That's all. I'm not always
as careful about what I say as I should be, but this time I did say what
I wanted to say.
- - eric
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:45:59 EDT
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: Who cares?
Goddamn, dude...
I get every post you get and this thread hasn't generated any more than 20 or
so posts over the past 5 days. Why don't you do what most people with a grip
on their life do- simply delete the unwanted threads before reading them?
I'll be glad to explain the procedure if you aren't familiar.
Jeezus, some people and their limited range of tolerance...
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:27:45 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Who cares?
Gene Natalia wrote:
> Can we end this ridiculous thread where every geek on the list tells all
> the other geeks how he alphabetizes?
Whoa there. Didn't you *know* you were entering Geekville when you signed the guestbook
at the city limits, Maynard? You might try to be a bit more charitable... it's generally
speaking the spirit of the Zornlist. And many 'round these parts don't mind the
occasional goofy thread like filing systems, favorite books and the like because it's a
sort of goofy/brainy chatter that typical avant-geeks aren't going to find at the local
cocktail party, water cooler or brewpub. Those who *do* mind generally make more
judicious use of the delete button instead of denegrating fellow travellers.
Until someone brings up Stomp. Then all hell breaks loose...
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:42:40 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote:
> Underworld Don Delillo
>
> What'd you think Steve? I found it a bit uneven, though the ups=
ides
> are higher than most you'll find elsewhere. Some gorgeous writi=
ng
> and an enjoyable, for me, baseball thread.
Believe it or not, I haven't read it. I got it for Christmas and decided=
I'd
best read some "back catalog" to get myself better equipped. Enjoyed "Wh=
ite
Noise" tremendously, as well as parts of "Americana" though I can't say I=
found
the latter completely successful (but it *was* his first novel and parts =
of it
are outstanding. "Libra," the first DeLillo I read, knocked me for a loo=
p...
this was one brilliant read. In particular the stream-of-consciousness
Southernisms of Lee Harvey Oswald's mother struck me as beautifully music=
al
(remember I'm a lifetime Southerner before moving to New York in '93), an=
d the
multiple POVs are pulled off with aplomb. Currently working on "Ratner's=
Star,"
with "Underworld" due next, though most likely I won't get to it until it=
s first
anniversary (which is not at all unusual in my experience... and I've got=
s piles
of newer unread stuff from William Vollman to Kinky Friedman waiting in t=
he
wings...)
Also really dug David Bowman's surreal "Let the Dog Drive." And I'm look=
ing
forward to reading the sequel to "Sophie's World" any month now...
> Strong Opinions Vladmir Nabokov
Must admit I know woefully little Nabokov, but "Pale Fire" has been a fav=
orite
for years.
And, damning me as a sentimentalist, I must admit I adore Mark Helprin - =
even his
juvenile and young adult titles - even though I've learned he's a Repulic=
an
speechwriter in his spare time.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - H=FCsker D=FC, "Zen Arcade" (since I didn't go to Bob Mould's "final=
electric
show" tonight...)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 01:42:50 EDT
From: Sulacco@aol.com
Subject: Re: Who cares?
In a message dated 9/26/98 17:37:25, you wrote:
>solipsistic
this is gonna be my new word of the week. great music, great books, now great
vocabulary words. this list has everything!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 08:59:45 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Steve Smith wrote:
> and I've gots piles
> of newer unread stuff from William Vollman to Kinky Friedman waiting in the
> wings...)
I was going to bring up Vollman here though he, apparently, has stopped
his rather Zornian practice of putting out a book a month this past year
or two, so it's been a while since I've read anything of his. But I do
think he's one hell of a writer at his best (IMHO, 'The Ice Shirt').
Difficult, obscure, bordering on extreme self-indulgence (hey! more
Zornocity!), self-flagellating (!) but well worth the ride.
> And, damning me as a sentimentalist, I must admit I adore Mark Helprin - even his
> juvenile and young adult titles - even though I've learned he's a Repulican
> speechwriter in his spare time.
Just goes to show...you know, it is possible that great art gets
produced by folk with differing political opinions. Helprin's another
beautiful writer; his 'Memoirs from an Ant-Proof Case' was one of the
finer novels of the last few years and 'Winter's Tale' is, of course, a
classic. You're evincing dangerously good taste for a Yes fan, Steve.
;-)
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:49:36 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: Alan Shorter's "Orgasm"
I think this record's actually quite good. There's a lot of ostinato
bass work and Ornette-ish melodies. Alan, Gato play throughout and the
rhythm section is split with Haden and Rashied Ali and then Muhammad Ali
and some other bassist. It's certainly worth picking up as it's a
limited edition reissue and the original vinyl goes for $100 or more.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:55:32 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Neubauten rec
What would you all recommend as the best Einsturzende Neubauten???
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:30:39 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl>
Subject: RE: collection
> Plus: I've never ever sold or gave away a CD even if I
> hated it
Hey, give me your address, and I'll send you a thousands of crapy CDs
just to fill your house and make you buy another one. :-)
There is a sollution for all you collectors: "The CD server". It is a
HP-UX based server with the SQL database, industrial network,
programmable controllers, speech recognition system and few industrial
robots. All you do is just enter all the data about your CDs into the
database (through a very nice X-Windows terminal), and put all the CDs
to specially for this purpose designed shelves. The order does not
matter (this is convinience!), because the robots have barcode readers
and can categorire all your CDs by the barcodes printed on the back
cover of the CD and enter their possition on the shelves to the
database. Then you just say loud the title of the CD and the robot will
pick it up from the shelve and put it into your CD player. You can pick
CDs by release date, artists, track titles... To run the whole system
you need air conditioned room with raised floor for the server and
terminal, room for the robots and PLCs, room for the CDs, and the room
for you and your CD player of course. This system will solve all the
problems with the order of the CDs on the shelves!!!
Regards
__________________________________________________________________
Artur Nowak [arno@silesia.top.DEATHTOSPAMMERS.pl]
www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:36:19 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Noel Akchote concerts?
so, I know Akchote is doing an in-store at DMG this Tuesday at 7. anyone know
if he's playing any other concerts while he's in NYC?
thanks,
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 00:00:49 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
Brian Olewnick wrote:
> I was going to bring up Vollman here though he, apparently, has stopped
> his rather Zornian practice of putting out a book a month this past year
> or two, so it's been a while since I've read anything of his.
Vollman was a frequent contributor to Spin in the late years of the Guccione era, and
is now contributing to Guccione's new men's mag (in the spirit of Details and Maxim,
not his pop's mag) Gear, which had an article by Vollman on the subject of post-Gulf
War Iraq. I have the issue but have yet to read the article. (I anticipate catching
up on a lot of reading after I move to Long Island City this Friday.)
> Helprin's another
> beautiful writer; his 'Memoirs from an Ant-Proof Case' was one of the
> finer novels of the last few years and 'Winter's Tale' is, of course, a
> classic.
"Winter's Tale" is indeed a classic, but to be perfectly honest I found "Memoirs" to be
a somewhat tepid revisitation of the previous and exceptionally beautiful "A Soldier of
the Great War." Still, Helprin is one of the very few writers whose new books I look
forward to passionately. I remember the day I returned to the U.S. from my Bahamian
honeymoon and found "Memoir" on the new releases shelf. And I still always check under
"H" every time I hit a bookstore. Which makes me wonder: in the world of music we have
such publications as ICE Magazine to tell us approximately when new CDs are due to
arrive in stores. Does anyone know of such a source in the world of book publishing?
> You're evincing dangerously good taste for a Yes fan, Steve.
You're way behind, Brian... I got over that icky Yes phase months ago and have sold all
but four of the twelve or thirteen discs I bought during that particular phase. Of
course, to some folks I suppose keeping four albums does consitute fandom of a sort...
;-)
Anyway, another relatively recent favorite book is Jeff Noon's "Vurt," which I thought
was one of the best new SF concept novels since "Neuromancer." I was, admittedly, less
taken with "Pollen" and "Automated Alice." And in general I am not an SF reader, so
it's quite likely that there are any number of fine things in that field that I've
missed.
More geek talk, but hey...
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 00:07:42 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Neubauten rec
Tom Pratt wrote:
> What would you all recommend as the best Einsturzende Neubauten???
IMHO, "Halber Mensch."
F=FCtter mein ego,
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Neubauten rec
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Steve Smith wrote:
> > What would you all recommend as the best Einsturzende Neubauten???
>
> IMHO, "Halber Mensch."
seconded.
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 00:16:39 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
In a message dated 9/28/98 12:03:53 AM, ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote:
<<Anyway, another relatively recent favorite book is Jeff Noon's "Vurt," which
I thought
was one of the best new SF concept novels since "Neuromancer." I was,
admittedly, less
taken with "Pollen" and "Automated Alice." And in general I am not an SF
reader, so
it's quite likely that there are any number of fine things in that field that
I've
missed.>>
I remember this one as being a bit too much like watered down Philip K. Dick,
but somewhat enjoyable and a quick read.
The two books I've found most enjoyable this year are Richard Price's
"Freedomland" and Haruki Murakami's "The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle". Freedomland
is comparable to Clockers, but even better done, and The Wind-Up Bird
Chronicle, while it might not be Murakami's best book, is his most ambitious
yet.
My two cents,
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 00:34:31 EDT
From: Sulacco@aol.com
Subject: Re: Neubaten rec
yeah, halber mensch (sp?) rules. that vidoetape completely altered my
"industrial" music frame of reference
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:33:51 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
> I remember ["Vurt"] as being a bit too much like watered down Philip K. Dick,
> but somewhat enjoyable and a quick read.
I must have found "Vurt" more enjoyable than you did, but your response does point
out one thing to me quite clearly... I need to read some Philip K. Dick in a
hurry. Any pointers as to where to begin, and from thence to...?
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:39:17 EDT
From: Sulacco@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
In a message dated 9/28/98 1:37:37, you wrote:
>I need to read some Philip K. Dick in a
>hurry. Any pointers as to where to begin, and from thence to...?
my personal favorite is VALIS. its also a composition by tod machover. and of
course there is always DO ANDROIDS DREAM OF ELECTRIC SHEEP?...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 02:42:00 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Philip K. Dick (was Re: Recent Reading)
In a message dated 9/28/98 1:34:31 AM, ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote:
<<I need to read some Philip K. Dick in a hurry. Any pointers as to where to
begin, and from thence to...?>>
I'd say that Mr. Dick's three full-fledged masterpieces are A Scanner Darkly,
Ubik, and The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, which I would suggest in that
order. A lot of people rave about Valis, but I would recommend holding off on
this one. Lawrence Sutin's bio of Dick, Divine Invasions, has a really good
"chronological survey and guide" in the back, with descriptions and numerical
ratings from 1-10 for all of Dick's books. I'd look to this for further
guidance if the first three blow you away.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 00:22:29 -0700
From: Gene Natalia <anubis9@concentric.net>
Subject: Dick
As far as Philip K. Dick books go, I really enjoyed A Scanner Darkly, Flow
My Tears the Policeman Said, The Man In the High Castle, and of course
Valis. I find that Dick's books are quick, easy reads. He tackles deep
subjects with a light style that belies the actual complexity it depicts.
Also, he has his characters fart randomly. Everyone needs some Dick.
Incidentally, there is a 2 disc experimental hip hop compilation called
Valis II, put together by Bill Laswell, I think...
Ethan
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #479
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