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1998-09-25
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #478
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, September 26 1998 Volume 02 : Number 478
In this issue:
-
Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...
Re: RE: Collecting Music
Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...
Re: Heretic
Re: collection
Re: Collecting Music
Re: Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...
Re: Alan Shorter's "Orgasm"
Re: Main/ Organum
RE: collection
RE: Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...
Re: Collecting Music
radical science redux
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #477
Fantamos anyone?
Who cares?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:48:33 PDT
From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...
Was curious if anyone knew the answer to this one...
I saw the 9:00 Masada show the other night at Tonic, and was curious if
anyone knew who the older people sitting up on the stage were. I assume
they were in some way important to someone in the group since there were
only 4 people up there. The older woman wrote in a notebook for most of
the show and didn't seem to be paying attention. The best part, however,
was when the older gentleman whipped out a newspaper about halfway
through the show. They seemed a little apathetic...
DB
Bill Laswell and Lori Carson Discographies at :
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:58:42 EDT
From: Sulacco@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE: Collecting Music
In a message dated 9/25/98 13:39:55, you wrote:
>So for you alphabetical folks, is Naked City and Painkiller filed under
>
>Zorn, or separately? (Is "Miles and Coltrane" under Miles or Coltrane?)
i have naked city and painkiller under naked city and painkiller respectively.
the one exception is the album titled naked city. that goes under john zorn.
btw, i put miles and coltrane under davis, miles.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:48:33 PDT
From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...
Was curious if anyone knew the answer to this one...
I saw the 9:00 Masada show the other night at Tonic, and was curious if
anyone knew who the older people sitting up on the stage were. I assume
they were in some way important to someone in the group since there were
only 4 people up there. The older woman wrote in a notebook for most of
the show and didn't seem to be paying attention. The best part, however,
was when the older gentleman whipped out a newspaper about halfway
through the show. They seemed a little apathetic...
DB
Bill Laswell and Lori Carson Discographies at :
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:40:59 EDT
From: IOUaLive1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Heretic
In a message dated 9/25/98 7:09:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Vlad-
Drac@webtv.net writes:
> Will someone please record Naked City's "Heretic" album and send it
> to me so I can decide if I should buy it.
Take my word for it- BUY IT.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:52:32 +0200
From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: collection
Hi,
sorry if this is a bit late, but I'm a few digests behind.
I've sorted my collection alphabetically and chronologically within
alphabetically. There are, of course, a few problems with that, as some people
pointed out:
That "Little Richard" problem: I've put Little Walter under L, but where should
I put Lightnin' Hopkins? I put him under H, as his real name is Sam Hopkins,
so Lightnin' is just sort of a nickname. Lil' Kim? L. But here's a tough one:
"Eric Burdon declares WAR".
I put all soundtracks under the title of the film, regardless of who did the
soundtrack. So Ry Cooder's Crossroads doesn't stand together with Cooder's
Paris, Texas but to the right hand of Crooklyn Dub Consortium. The problem
turns up with John Carpenter's soundtracks, because I have one Carpenter Best
Of, which stands under C, but his other discs (They Live, Halloween) are put
elsewhere.
4hero stands under F like Four Hero. Not too difficult.
I always leave "The" at the beginning of a title out, so "The Dark Side of
the Moog" stands under D. What about an "A"? That sampler "A Little Magic
in a Noisy World" is right at the beginning of the collection, but it would
be more consequent if I'd put it under L.
Brian's problem with having to remove Muhal from his front position: there's
also a good side to this - I admit I bought Zorn only not to have Zawinul at
the end of my collection. Hector Zazou also helped.
The chronological order is also a bit difficult: I put best of discs always
at the end of that artist's output; but discs like Scorn's "Deliverance" 1997
CD are difficult to place - should I put it behind "Vae Solis", because the
original came out after that, or should I file it at the end because it's a
new release with the Weatherall remixes as bonus tracks?
Not to sort by genre or these things is quite funny actually when Mussorgsky
stands right next to Napalm Death.
Another problem: Laswell's "Oscillations" is of course filed under L, but
what about the Oscillations Remixes? I've put it under O, because it doesn't
have Laswell's name on it and Laswell didn't work on it. And between
Oscillations 1 and 2 Laswell put out some other stuff, so 1+2 don't stand
next each other.
To that person with the car/walkman system: I didn't find your system crazy
at all, but I gasped for breath when I read that you have 15,000 items in
your collection. My collection of over 500 seems so small and insignificant
in comparison. What's interesting about people's collection is their age:
I'm 20 right now, so 500 items is quite a lot actually I think.
I'd put AMM between Anderson, Laurie and Allen, Daevid.
Plus: I've never ever sold or gave away a CD even if I hated it, e.g. Goldie's
Saturnz Return which I've never heard all the way through - I'm just too much
of a collector. Yes, it's too much music than I could ever listen to, but as
someone pointed out a while ago on this list: it's a quality of life thing.
I also liked that library point.
Regarding books, has anyone read John Fowles' "The Magus"? I found this
very fascinating and couldn't read anything else after I finished it because
it stayed with me for months.
Kind regards,
- Chris.
---------------------------------------------
* Chris Genzel --- stamil@t-online.de *
* Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
* http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/ *
---------------------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:43:30 EDT
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: Collecting Music
How do you people file CDs/LPs of duos/trios/quartets/etc. where no one
musician is clearly "the leader" of the group? I usually file it under the
name of the first musician that appears in the title/credits...
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:43:31 EDT
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...
In a message dated 9/26/98 3:15:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
silent_watcher@hotmail.com writes:
<< I saw the 9:00 Masada show the other night at Tonic, and was curious if
anyone knew who the older people sitting up on the stage were. I assume
they were in some way important to someone in the group since there were
only 4 people up there. The older woman wrote in a notebook for most of
the show and didn't seem to be paying attention. The best part, however,
was when the older gentleman whipped out a newspaper about halfway
through the show. They seemed a little apathetic... >>
The guy with the newspaper was Amos Ormondi. (hee hee)
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 12:49:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Alan Shorter's "Orgasm"
If you like "early" free jazz you'll love it. Gato Barbieri (pre -Last
Tango and A&M) is on it at his fiery best, plus good bass work from Charlie
Haden and both Rashied and Muhammed Ali (not together). From the 1998
perspective, it sounds pretty "mainstream" (for The New Thing), so it
shouldn't frighten non-jazzbos.
Furthermore it's one of the few times Alan Shorter recorded, besides
"Four For Trane" and some Marion Brown sessions; it has updated liner
notes by Amiri Baraka (not those "it was good enuf for 1964, leave 'em"
jokes on Impulse! reissues; and where else are you gonna get a picture
of Muhammed Ali?
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Lang Thompson wrote:
> Anybody have any idea what this is like? The cover claims it's
> "challenging" and invokes Ornette but otherwise I'm not sure whether it's
> more than merely interesting, especially at full price.
>
> LT
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Lang Thompson
> http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4
>
> New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n'
> Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 09:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Main/ Organum
On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, William York wrote:
> _Firmament III_. When I listened to these I thought of AMM (except the
> Main stuff is more flattened out if that makes sense -more quiet humming
> sounds and less industrial sounding noise), and then
it's not too far off.
David Jackman, aka Organum used to
be involved with Cornelius Cardew's
Scratch Orchestra. not to mention,
Jackman and Prevost are very good friends.
Organum is essentially David Jackman,
but a variety of folk have worked
with Jackman as members of Organum.
> looking through the Matchless catalogue in the CD I have there is a CD by
> Organum which is said to include among others Keith Rowe, Jim O'Rourke
> (what other O'Rourke could it be?) and somebody Hampson.
the disc you're referring to,
"Veil of Tears" is a collection of
live and studio Organum recordings.
members of Organum for these recordings
included: Michael Prime, DINAH Jane Rowe
(not Keith Rowe, sorry), Jim O'Rourke,
Robert Hampson and the Rupenus
brothers aka The New Blockaders.
note the split Organum/Prevost EP
originally released by Silent records was
also issued on CD by Matchless.
> Is this the same
> person as Robert Hampson from Main, and if so is the album worth me
> dishing out $17 for?
yes and yes.
> Anyway I also find it interesting that folks like Hampson, James Plotkin,
> and some other guys like this came out of the Earache thing and are now
> doing this super-quiet stuff, although I haven't followed the in between
> points that connect Napalm Death to Main.
Hampson started Loop. he was never
involved with Napalm Death, however
he was, briefly, a member of Godflesh
for their 1992 european tour.
after Loop broke up, Hampson went on
to form Main.
i keep a Main website.
www.esophagus.com/main
there's also an excellent Organum website.
www.brainwashed/organum
hth!
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:28:26 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com>
Subject: RE: collection
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Chris Genzel
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 1998 6:53 AM
> Not to sort by genre or these things is quite funny actually
> when Mussorgsky
> stands right next to Napalm Death.
Mussorgsky's kissing the back of My Bloody Valentine as we speak.
And Sulacco@aol.com [mailto:Sulacco@aol.com] wrote on Friday, September 25,
1998 9:59 PM:
> i have naked city and painkiller under naked city and painkiller
> respectively.
> the one exception is the album titled naked city. that goes under
> john zorn.
Same here. I figure it's because that Elektra/Nonesuch release of "Naked
City" has Zorn's name on the spine, while the others don't...
And thanks to Lon Huber for the listening group tips. I gotta try it out on
some willing friends.
And so I end with a quote for all you fellow-obsessives from Walter
Benjamin's 1931 essay, "Unpacking My Library" (translated by Hannah Arendt):
"...ownership is the most intimate relationship that one can have to
objects. Not that they come alive in him; it is he who lives in them."
Later,
Ben
http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:33:39 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dgasque@aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 1998 7:44 AM
>
> was when the older gentleman whipped out a newspaper about halfway
> through the show. They seemed a little apathetic... >>
>
> The guy with the newspaper was Amos Ormondi. (hee hee)
LOL -- he's not on this list, is he?
Wait, what am I saying...
Later,
Ben
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:39:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Collecting Music
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 Sulacco@aol.com wrote:
> if one files cds alpha by artist/composer, where would you put 2 live crew? i
> figured, since it starts with a number, it goes before "a". thoughts, coments,
> suggestions?
it depends...
libraries tend to file numbers before A.
whereas, radio stations tend to
spell out the numeral and file accordingly.
your mileage may vary...
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:07:46 -0400
From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese)
Subject: radical science redux
You should be aware, for example, that Pinker is
>something of a genetic determinist: he thinks our behavior is caused by and
>excused by our genes. This is an extremely radical view.
^^^^^^^
On a list self-conciously dedicated to all things 'radical', this is
perhaps not the best way to debunk ole Pinker. More like 'simplistic' and
not supported by most of what we know about genetics. I think folks like
Dennet and Pinker (and the guys who wrote _The Bell Curve_) would like to
couch their arguements as fighting the mainstream and being 'radical' (e.g
Dennet's _Darwin's Dangerous Idea_) but really draw on a long tradition of
inherent human nature
(sort of like Kenny G. is a radical rebellion against the hegmony of the
avant-guarde); as long or longer than the those they contrast themselves
with.
In any case, no armchair biologist should do a shot of Dennet, Pinker, or
Dawkins without setting up a refreshing chaser of Lewinton, Rose, or even
Gould.
To move this to nominally Zorn land: how do folks on this list involved in
nominally 'rationalist' enterprises which include concensus building as
part of their structure (I'm mostly thinking of scientific research here,
but substititue anything else) work this in with a musical and artistic
taste that runs to the non-mainstream, suposedly 'radical', if you will.
Simply separate aestetics and research? Or are their some more clever
synthesis out there?
matt
ps.
A much more moderate
>view is that behavior is caused by the interaction of our genes, our minds, and
>the world.
I'd just like to reiterate that what Eric probably also means in place of
'moderate' is 'accurate' and 'in accordance with everything we know about
genetics--esp mammalian behaviour genetics'.
- ------
"Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it
kept them apart, spatially."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:07:27 +0200
From: "Nathalie Claeys" <nclaeys@unicall.be>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #477
>> Underworld started a year of long novels, which also included Mason &
>> Dixon and Infinite Jest. The trouble with all these ultra long,
>> excessive, complex novels is that you have to read them twice to
>> figure out what's what. I find that they're also spoilers for
>> ordinary novels, which don't seem as interesting any more (in much the
>> same way that alternative pop doesn't sound interesting after Naked
>> City).
Personally I don't have that with music. Nor with reading. I can just as
easily obsess over John Zorn as over Sparklehorse. I don't see GoodMorning
Spider losing that sparkle if I play Naked City first. Both discs sound
absolutely smashing.
Currently reading Underworld myself. Been ploughing through it. Hopefully
it gets finished by the turn of the century. Although I am not a big DeLillo
fan, I enjoy reading his books. I started with Great Jones Street which was
really fun.
>Top ten?
Bukowski, Bukowski, Bukowski, Bukowski, Bukowski,... ad infinitum. Oh yes,
and I also like Crichton as a guilty pleasure.
Nathalie Claeys
np UNKLE
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:32:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Fantamos anyone?
I'll be making a special trip to Seattle on the 16th
of next month just to see Fantamos.
Can anyone who has seen them please brief me on what
to expect?
Chad.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:06:17 -0700
From: Gene Natalia <anubis9@concentric.net>
Subject: Who cares?
Can we end this ridiculous thread where every geek on the list tells all
the other geeks how he alphabetizes? Here's how I file my cd's: I put
them where I can find them, which happens to be alphabetically. It's a
personal thing that varies from person to person. I don't feel egocentric
enough to detail to you all MY PERSONAL method of filing everything. I
have a hard time believing that you all find one another's methods of
categorization so intriguing that we need dozens of posts about it. I sure
don't enjoy receiving 12 e-mails a day regarding where 2Live Crew goes in
your collections. I notice a trend on this list where many people feel
COMPELLED to get their 2 cents in, regardless of whether they're just being
redundant or irrelevant. Can we shed these solipsistic tendencies? I
can't believe there aren't others who share my sentiments. I apologize if
I'm wrong, and everyone else enjoys a myriad of useless e-mails per day. I
just hate sifting through all your posts every day to find the one or two
worth reading. If I'm wrong, let me know. I do understand what it's like
to find kindred spirits to discuss these sorts of thing with. I know not
many people have cd collections that number in the hundreds, but get over it.
Ethan Danberry
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #478
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