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Zorn List Digest      Friday, September 25 1998      Volume 02 : Number 477



In this issue:
-
       Re: Collecting Music
       re: collecting
       Monologue
       Manzanera
       Re: Collecting Music
       Sorta stomp related -- not to beat a dead horse
       Re: Sorta stomp related -- not to beat a dead horse
       Re: Collecting Music
       Listening Groups
       Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music
       Re: Listening Groups
       Heretic
       Alan Shorter's "Orgasm"
       Re: Merkin (NYC) on 10/21
       Re:  Alan Shorter's "Orgasm"
       Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:26:39 -0500
From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Collecting Music

TagYrIt wrote:

>In a message dated 98-09-25 08:42:20 EDT, you write:

<<      Same place I put my sole 3rd Bass CD: under "T".

      The only other discs I own where this comes up are those by 8 Bold
      Souls.

      Brian Olewnick
  >>

>Off the top of my head - and I use this method too - no one else here listens
>to 808 State or Phil Manzanera's 801?

801 Live is a great album - I have the same problem with where it goes.  Ei
for 801, M for Manzanera, or En for Eno?  I usually end up with it in Ei.

Speaking of hard to place albums, how about collaborations - Eno and Byrne
"My Life in the Bush of Ghosts" for example - I alternate that one.

I usually Alphabetize by Artist/Group then Chronological within that,
except for a few exceptions:  the Subharmonic label is all together,
Tzadiks are all together grouped by type in series number, Avant by series
number (except the composer ones which go at the beginning of the Tzadik
composer series), and PSF the same way, except sometimes the Haino-Specific
ones get pulled out into a separate section depending on my mood.  Also the
Tangerine Dream section has it's own tower.

Since I only do this about once a year, I usually end up with piles of
discs on the floor in the living room.  I tend to fill up a travel case
with about 24 discs and rotate them through the changer in the car, after
which they usually stay on the floor in the living room until the next time
the sorting bug hits me.  Close to a third of my collection is scattered by
that time.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:38:57 -0400
From: Sean Terwilliger <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: collecting

Off the top of my head - and I use this method too - no one else here listens
>to 808 State or Phil Manzanera's 801?
>
I've got 801 Live. I file it under Eno. In EGCD cat. number order. (Which
is basically chronological.) If I had the Manzanera/801 - Listen now CD,
I'd file them together under "Eight". (Unless the spine said Manzanera/801
on it... see below).
Anyone else have a hard time with "Pigpen" vs. "Wayne Horvitz and Pigpen" I
put them all under Pigpen, but it doesn't make me very happy. How about
"Derek and the Ruins"?, D, B or R?. The new Skopelitis/Bjorkenheim disk
just says "Revelator" on the spine. I've got it under Skopelitis.

- -Sean

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:51:29 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Steven Nilsen)
Subject: Monologue

AN interesting note about "Monologues".  I heard it from Wayne, not
personally but I was in the room, that this disc was simply a compilation
of various studio segments that he'd been compiling.  None of thm were
really meant as songs, but when somebody at Tim Kerr produce them as an
albumn, he agreed to release.
If this is the kind of stuff Wayne Horvitz just messes around with, woah!
Man I do love "Monologue", it's pure Wayne Horvitz.

- -Steven



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:12:35 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Manzanera

In a message dated 98-09-25 13:25:17 EDT, you write:

>Off the top of my head - and I use this method too - no one else here listens
>to 808 State or Phil Manzanera's 801?
>
>

I doubt I'm the only one on this list that thinks "801 Live" is one great rock
album.

Dave Royko

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:10:29 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Collecting Music

In a message dated 98-09-25 13:29:42 EDT, you write:

<<
 801 Live is a great album - I have the same problem with where it goes.  Ei
 for 801, M for Manzanera, or En for Eno?  I usually end up with it in Ei.

 Speaking of hard to place albums, how about collaborations - Eno and Byrne
 "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts" for example - I alternate that one.
  >>

My "Eights" are under "Eight" alphabetically' technically in this case it is a
band called 801, and not billed as "Manzanera and....". And with stuff like
Eno and Byrne...I decided that by default they go under who's name appears
first on the spine. Not foolproof, but it works.

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:16:12 -0400
From: "Chris Barrett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sorta stomp related -- not to beat a dead horse

Has anyone seen, heard or heard about the compilation "Orbitones, Spoon
Harps & Mellowphones" on Ellipsis Arts records?   It was apparently
released on the 15th.  I just happen to see it at a listening station at
Borders and its apparently a CD of music created with experimental
instruments that includes a 96 page booklet.  Actually, the whole CD case
is the booklet.  Among the 19 tracks listed on it are Babbachichuja by Tom
Waits, Sonata XIV by John Cage and Waterphonics by Stomp (I'm assuming its
them).  What little I heard sounded pretty interesting.

There was also another CD there by the same label called "Gravikords
Whirlies and Pyrophon" with similiar packaging.  This one's 19 tracks
include by Harry Partch, Roger Moog, Ken Butler and Clara Rockmore.

Some tracks seem to be available for listening at CDNow.  Seems rather
timely and relevant here.....


- -Chris



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:21:34 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sorta stomp related -- not to beat a dead horse

On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:16:12 -0400  "Chris Barrett" wrote:
>
> Has anyone seen, heard or heard about the compilation "Orbitones, Spoon
> Harps & Mellowphones" on Ellipsis Arts records?   It was apparently
> released on the 15th.  I just happen to see it at a listening station at
> Borders and its apparently a CD of music created with experimental
> instruments that includes a 96 page booklet.  Actually, the whole CD case
> is the booklet.  Among the 19 tracks listed on it are Babbachichuja by Tom
> Waits, Sonata XIV by John Cage and Waterphonics by Stomp (I'm assuming its
> them).  What little I heard sounded pretty interesting.
>
> There was also another CD there by the same label called "Gravikords
> Whirlies and Pyrophon" with similiar packaging.  This one's 19 tracks
> include by Harry Partch, Roger Moog, Ken Butler and Clara Rockmore.
>
> Some tracks seem to be available for listening at CDNow.  Seems rather
> timely and relevant here.....

I got it but I have mixed feelings about it. My main impression is:

    How is it that intruments which look so strange and interesting (on
    pictures) can produce so mundane and predictable sounds?

There are few good pieces (such as Cage's prepared piano, or Ellen Fulman's
long intrument one), but for most of the other pieces, you really have to
look at the picture and read the illustrating text to realize that the
instrument played is not a common one (used in some "extended technique"
approach), or simply a DX7 with a boring algorithm selection...

In fact, besides the Reichel piece (already mentioned), I had the same
feeling with the first volume.

But if you are there for the eye pleasure, these are definitely two very
pretty objects.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:53:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Collecting Music

[e-mail] asked:
>>if one files cds alpha by artist/composer, where would you put 2 live crew? i
>>figured, since it starts with a number, it goes before "a". thoughts, coments,
>>suggestions?

To which Robert A. Pleshar replied:
>Numbers alphabetize alphabetically by the spelling of the number in most
>library alphebetization systems. Therefore, 2 Live Crew would be filed under
>"Two" in my collection

    This is an interesting topic. In my personal collection,
    the 2 Live Crew is also filed under "Two Live Crew".
    But, as a Music Librarian in charge of a 65,000 item
    collection I wrestle with this issue a lot. In my case,
    the collection is used daily by a radio station of
    volunteers.

    Converting numerals in a band/artist name to text
    works when you assume that the conversion is unique
    (as the 2 Live Crew example). Unfortunately, this
    is not always the case, take for example, the
    band Spot 1019, which could be filed as
        spot one zero one nine
        spot one thousand nineteen
        spot one thousand and nineteen
        spot ten nineteen (correct pronunciation of the band name)
    or the previous example of 808 State which is
    pronounced Eight Oh Eight State. This is when
    converting numerals to text breaks down.

    Currently, the library uses the pronunciation approach
    which has the problem of forcing the DJ to know
    the correct pronunciation of the band/artist. Not
    a good thing. Over the years, I've been leaning towards
    the numeral before text approach (Spot 1019 before
    Spotless, for example).

>In the sake of disclosure, I just keep everything in alphabetical order.
>People like Little Richard, Litle Walter, etc. give me some concern though.
>(File under "L' or "R"?) I'm not going to use their "real" names, so I
>usually file these sorts of names as if they were group names (i.e. under
>"L" for Little Richard).

    That is the system we use as well.

    Don't get me started on the artists that change their
    name in small (2Pac, Tupac,...) and large ways (the
    many incarnations of Foetus).   Heh. :)

    mike
    ObZorn: The Mike Patton composition before Zorn's
    Xu Feng at Slim's last week was quite excellent.
    I forget the name, but it had William Winant doing
    Korean percussion, a fine turntablist, and Patton
    singing in Porteguese. Hope it sees a release.

- --
[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:26:33 -0800
From: Lon Huber <[e-mail]>
Subject: Listening Groups

Benito Vergara wrote:
>And about those listening groups -- they sound really interesting. Any
>helpful suggestions on how to organize one? Do you listen to music
>thematically, chronologically, or whatever? (Respond privately if you >want.)

Mine's loose. Every other Sunday afternoon, I power up the Aragon (See how
it makes the lights dim? I get a real kick out of that.) and slap some
vinyl on the Linn or a piece plastic in the Planet. The organization
consisted of letting all my music pals know that I do this every other
Sunday afternoon, come hell or high water, and that anyone is welcome to
drop by between the hours of Noon and 5:00pm with whatever they wanted to
play. If no one shows up, I listen to whatever I bought that week, or
whatever in my collection sparks my interest. If someone does show up, we
take turns playing tracks. Invariably, the last piece of music played gives
someone an idea for the next piece to play, so we end up slipping all over
genres and artists for several hours and a very heady cross-pollination
nearly always results. We've done it thematically once or twice, say, by
genre or artist, and that's fun, too.

I'll never forget the thing that happened last week, when a younger friend
of mine played me Gastr del Sol, who I'd never heard and had been meaning
to check out, and I followed that with the old Xenakis album,
Electroacoustic Music.

Paul: 'What's this?'
Lon: 'Early electonics, electroacoustic music.'
Paul: 'Early, like '70s?'
Lon: 'Early, like 1957.'
Paul: [prolonged silence] 'Wow.'

Lon / coelacanth-x / www.coelacanth-x.com

Today's Obsessions: Time, goat milk-n-cookies, coughing.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:37:17 -0400
From: Circle9 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Reading, was Re[2]: collecting music

Caleb Deupree wrote:

> Underworld started a year of long novels, which also included Mason &
> Dixon and Infinite Jest.  The trouble with all these ultra long,
> excessive, complex novels is that you have to read them twice to
> figure out what's what.  I find that they're also spoilers for
> ordinary novels, which don't seem as interesting any more (in much the
> same way that alternative pop doesn't sound interesting after Naked
> City).
>
> Love this thread.  I'm saving these book related messages the same way
> I saved all the top 20s last year.
> ---
> Caleb T. Deupree

Really? I see what you mean about Underworld and IJ, but the Pynchon I found
to just be a fun, goofy romp. Kind of like a big, burly Mark Twain travelogue
(though perhaps crossed with a Dennis Miller monologue...) But my vote for the
best (so far) this year goes to either "Underworld" or "Cold Mountain"- which,
monster best-seller that it was, I did not expect to be nearly so brilliant.

Recent read: Bret Easton Ellis' "The Informers"- those that only know him from
"American Psycho"- whether the liked it or not-  should give this one a spin.
It's nothing but a bunch of Hollywood rich kids popping pills, having sex, and
getting tans, but with a palpable undercurrent of menace and evil that's hard
to describe. A much angrier work than AP, and not nearly as satirical. It came
out a couple of years ago, but I didn't get around to it until recently. Kind
of reminded me of "The Player" in some ways, but without any of the wink-wink
humor, and much, much darker in tone.

As for Jim Thompson- always one of my faves, but definately spotty. You have
to remember that he wrote for the pulps, and his books are probably only the
half of what he intended most of the time. But considering that he was working
within those constraints, his output is certainly amazing. And those works
which did manage to sneak through unfettered- "The Killer Inside Me", "The
Criminal", etc., - WOW!

Anyway, maybe we can all drop some "Top Ten" lists to feel out where the list
stands on literature. I'll break the ice first:

(Sticking to fiction, here...)

Ten good reads I've had in the last couple years- in no special order
1. The Virgin Suicides- Jeffrey Eugenides
2. The Informers- Ellis
3. Underworld- DeLillo
4. Cold Mountain- Charles Frazier
5. We Were the Mulvaneys- Joyce Carol Oates
        -(last 30 or so pages were a cop-out, but the buildup was great...)
6. Cruising Paradise- Sam Shepard
7. Mason + Dixon- Pynchon
8. I Can't Wait on God- Albert French
9. Jesus Saves- Darcy Steinke
10. Bad Behavior- Mary Gaitskill
11. The Ax- Donald Westlake
(okay, so it was eleven...)

Ten authors I can usually count on:
1. Pynchon
2. DeLillo (esp. White Noise)
3. J. G. Ballard (esp. The Atrocity Exhibition)
4. Gore Vidal ("Duluth" and "Burr" stand out)
5. W. S. Burroughs
(funny little interlude- A friend of mine named Bill grew up in Lawrence,
Kansas. The reason he goes by "Bill" and not "William" is because he didn't
want the same name as that "creepy old man upstairs who's always touching me".
One guess who that creep turned out to be...)
6. The collected (particularly later) works of Philip K. Dick
7. Jim Thompson (but that's already been established)
8. Stanislaw Lem
9. The most of Elmore Leonard- yeah, it ain't brainy stuff, but I try not to
be a brainy guy...
10. Alright, alright, I'm a Stephen King fan (most of the time). I'm blushing
with embarrasment. But like I heard some columnist say once: "No one stays up
'til four in the morning 'cause they just HAVE TO find out how "Gravity's
Rainbow" ends..."

I suppose we could do this sort of thing with anything... Films, Plays, TV
shows, Pasta dishes, members of Menudo...

    -SG


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:47:34 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Listening Groups

That would be a good time to make a mix tape...

>If someone does show up, we
>take turns playing tracks. Invariably, the last piece of music played gives
>someone an idea for the next piece to play, so we end up slipping all over
>genres and artists for several hours and a very heady cross-pollination
>nearly always results. We've done it thematically once or twice, say, by
>genre or artist, and that's fun, too.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:05:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail] (Theo Klaase)
Subject: Heretic

     Will someone please record Naked City's "Heretic" album and send it
to me so I can decide if I should buy it.  I'll do the same if you don't
have one of the following:

Zony Mash and Horvitz:  Cold Spell
Naked City:  torcher garden, radio, leng tche
Pigpen:  Half-track
Classic Guide to Strategy
Filmworks 1,3,5,6, or 8
Spy vs. Spy
Nani Nani
Spillane

contact me privately,  Thank You


- -Theo


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 19:42:46 -0400
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Alan Shorter's "Orgasm"

Anybody have any idea what this is like?  The cover claims it's
"challenging" and invokes Ornette but otherwise I'm not sure whether it's
more than merely interesting, especially at full price.

LT
- ------------------------------------------------------
Lang Thompson
http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4

New at the Funhouse website:  Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n'
Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:17:10 -0400
From: stephen drury <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Merkin (NYC) on 10/21

At 07:46 AM 9/25/98 -0600,brian_olewnick wrote:
>     "The John Zorn Ensemble" is playing Merkin (NYC) on 10/21.
>
>     No program is listed, but the performers include Mark Feldman, Erik
>     Friedlander, Anthony Coleman, Stephen Drury, Jim Pugliese, William
>     Winant and "others".
>
>     Any idea of the program, Mr. Drury?

As far as I know, it includes "Music for Children" for piano violin and
percussion, "Carny" (I think) for solo piano, maybe "Memento Mori" for
string quartet ... don't quote me ...
  ---steve


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:13:11 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Alan Shorter's "Orgasm"

In a message dated 9/25/98 7:43:50 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<Anybody have any idea what this is like?  The cover claims it's
"challenging" and invokes Ornette but otherwise I'm not sure whether it's
more than merely interesting, especially at full price.>>

I only heard it once, but I didn't think it was nearly as "out" as the sticker
on the front claimed. I wasn't impressed enough to buy it.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:48:33 PDT
From: "Silent Watcher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada @ Tonic this past Thursday...

Was curious if anyone knew the answer to this one...

I saw the 9:00 Masada show the other night at Tonic, and was curious if
anyone knew who the older people sitting up on the stage were. I assume
they were in some way important to someone in the group since there were
only 4 people up there. The older woman wrote in a notebook for most of
the show and didn't seem to be paying attention. The best part, however,
was when the older gentleman whipped out a newspaper about halfway
through the show. They seemed a little apathetic...

DB
Bill Laswell and Lori Carson Discographies at :
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #477
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