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Zorn List Digest      Tuesday, September 22 1998      Volume 02 : Number 470



In this issue:
-
       Re: Bacharach
       Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
       Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
       Re: Masada Box
       Re: Terrible News
       Re: C Melody sax
       Dialogues
       Re: Bassy
       Re: Bacharach versions
       Giuffre - Free Fall
       collecting music
       Re: masada 10; etc.
       Re: Masada Box
       Re: Masada Box
       Re[2]: Masada Box
       Re: Masada Box
       Re: collecting music
       Lili Boniche Discs Available in the US
       MatSonOnLine 11 - 1998 September (fwd)
       Re: collecting music

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:04:27 -0400
From: Circle9 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bacharach

And while we're on the Bacharach subject... has anyone heard any advance word on the
BB / Elvis Costello album? I just picked up tix for their RCMH show. Hope it's worth
the $$.

    -S.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:56:39 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...

Jeff Spirer wrote:

> >indicated that the material was licensed from Charly, which stands to reason.
>
> Charly isn't the originator, however.  They licensed it from The Music
> Company, which owns the rights to Celluloid (along with Subharmonic) and
> has done the licensing.

Good grief.  The question then remains... are any of the artists who made the
music seeing any money whatsoever for the continued life of their own work?  (I
saw the Charly CD pressing of Zorn/Bailey/Lewis "Yankees" for the first time day
before yesterday and wondered the same thing...)  That you mention Subharmonic in
the same sentence with the words "owns the rights to" makes me think the answer to
my question is no...

I'd had a pretty fond view of Music Club to this point, but I guess anything good
in the music business can be blighted somehow...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP: John Zorn - "The Bribe" (snap...snap...snap...)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:56:39 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...

Jeff Spirer wrote:

> >indicated that the material was licensed from Charly, which stands to reason.
>
> Charly isn't the originator, however.  They licensed it from The Music
> Company, which owns the rights to Celluloid (along with Subharmonic) and
> has done the licensing.

Good grief.  The question then remains... are any of the artists who made the
music seeing any money whatsoever for the continued life of their own work?  (I
saw the Charly CD pressing of Zorn/Bailey/Lewis "Yankees" for the first time day
before yesterday and wondered the same thing...)  That you mention Subharmonic in
the same sentence with the words "owns the rights to" makes me think the answer to
my question is no...

I'd had a pretty fond view of Music Club to this point, but I guess anything good
in the music business can be blighted somehow...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP: John Zorn - "The Bribe" (snap...snap...snap...)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 03:43:11 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Masada Box

In a message dated 9/21/98 11:29:29 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<sorry, maybe i've missed something but i've worked in records stores for 6
years (yes one that carry most tzadik stuff) and have ner seen tzadik release
a box set before. have they? if it were to have all the material, and then
some it seems tzadik prices would dictate something upwards of $400, which
would relegate it to a few choice borders stores and major city jazz stores.
doesn't seem like a very profitable prospect to me. are you guys really sure
that would ever happen?>>

well, there was the Parachute Box, which was 6 CDs. I'd guess that a 10-CD set
of previously released Masada material would sell for somewhere between $100
and $120. I can't imagine that too many would sell, but maybe I'm wrong.

Jon
NP: Morphogenesis-Stromatolites (Vintage Electronic Records). Recommended for
fans of AMM and MEV.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:38:25 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Terrible News

While we're on tasteful music (thanks Keith), I should just mention
that the great Kenny G's 48 minute one-note feat (reported on THIS
list!) has been challenged by Joel Dorn who, in the notes to Aces:
Back To Back (4 album Roland Kirk set on 32 Jazz), claims that Kirk
blew one note for just over two hours at Ronnie Scott's London in the
company of some guys from the Guinness Book Of Records who
subsequently quibbled about it.  According to Dorn, Kirk really hated
those guys.  I can't confirm that it was the McWhirters, but I kind
of hope so!

Kirk may not have sold 40 million albums, but he made a hell of a lot!

Sean W

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:09:16 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C Melody sax

I believe Frankie Trumbauer used to play one.

Sean W
"keepin' 'em short"

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:25:41 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Geoff S Gersh)
Subject: Dialogues

Straylight Dialogues w/ Elliot Levin & Rick Iannacone
Monday Sept. 28th  9 and 11pm in the Alterknit Theatre at the Knitting
Factory

The ambient, avant world improv. trio Straylight, featuring Jason
Finkelman (berimbau,
riti, percussion), Charles Cohen (Buchla Music Easel), and Geoff Gersh
(guitar) are joined by special guests  Elliott Levin and Rick Iannacone,
two of Philadelphia's leading
improvisors.
Elliott Levin's (saxophone, flutes) musical and poetic inspirations are
drawn,
in part, from performances with modern innovators Cecil Taylor and Dennis
Charles, while the funk and international flavor of Rick Iannacone's
(guitar)
playing reflect recent collaborations with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and
SamulNori.
Together they are long time musical partners and founding members of the
creative music units New Ghost and Interplay.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:23:44 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bassy

Brian,

I remember Laswell and Brotzmann's Low Life being fairly unbearable
...

Sean W

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:26:44 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bacharach versions

BJOERN,

Billy Jenkins: (Not) Close To You on East/West Now Wear The Same Vest
The middle eight is done in 11/8.  But it's best heard live.

Sean W

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:17:36 -0400
From: "hijk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Giuffre - Free Fall

For those of you who haven't seen it yet:
Jimmy Giuffre' Free Fall has just been reissued by Columbia/Legacy.
Zorn counts it among his favorites and says it "kicks ass."



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:31:08 -0600
From: "M. Lewis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: collecting music

>Am I imagining it, or are some of you more interested in
"collecting"rather >than actually listening to and enjoying the music?

i for one have most of zorn as well as almost all of zappa and i can tell
you that each is a "collection" as well as a library.
that being said i have to admit that most of it does not get listened to,
because a lot of it isn't what you would call "enjoyable", and it depends
on what mood you are in as well as other factors...
hmmm... ya know, maybe i should sell some cd's that don't get any
mileage... if anyone on the list is interested in some zappa or zorn (or
other related) email me privately to get a list...

- -louie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:42:47 -0400
From: Jack Blanton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: masada 10; etc.

I have a vague memory that the series was supposed to be one album for
every leter in the Hebrew alphabet.  I think that there are around 22 or so
letters but I'm not real sure.  Does anybody else remember hearing this?

Jack Blanton
[e-mail]



At 02:18 PM 9/20/98 +0000, you wrote:
>you wrote:
>> Charles Gillett wrote:
>> >    The last track, apparently the last studio Masada track we'll
>>              ===============================================
>> > hear,
>>
>> what's the story behind this? did you hear this form reliable sources?
>
>   Well, it's been the rumor for some time--nothing really official,
>just people on rec.music.bluenote saying that they talked to Zorn or
>Douglas or whoever after a Masada show and it being passed along that
>10 would be the last.
>
>   However, Forced Exposure (www.forcedexposure.com) quotes the
>promotional material for Masada 10 as saying:
>
>"The final installment of one of the most popular and provocative series
>in all of modern music! John Zorn's Masada music is an extraordinary
>blend of up-to-the-minute improvisation and an ongoing sense of Jewish
>history and artistic expression. Masada 10 will be the last in this
>historic series of studio recordings."
>
>That's all I know.  Zorn can always change his mind, I suppose.
>
>
>-- Charles
>
>
>-
>
>
>
Jack Blanton
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:45:59 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Masada Box

>what gets me is the marketing involved.  If they (Tzadik) know they're
>going to release a set and they know exactly what will be on it, what's the
>hold up?  Go ahead and release it.  It seems like they're waiting for
>people to buy up 10 before they do it.  Now maybe it's a annoying
>contractual thing with DIW but it still sucks for us.

Very likely it has something to do with the fact that in the last decade or
so, Japanese prices (typically 3,000 yen for CD albums by Japanese artists,
2,500 yen for albums licensed from foriegn sources) are so high that
imports in Japanese stores are significantly cheaper than domestic
releases.

The higher prices (in fact, I think that they are fixed in some way, but
I've never quite understood the system) mean that Japanese companies will
typically spend far more on packaging than their Western conterparts will
(compare Avant/DIW packaging with the second rate printing used on Tzadik
releases).  And, most typically, the Japanese releases will carry bonus
tracks - all in an effort to stay competitive with cheaper foreign imports.

Also common to Japanese deals is an exclusivity clause - 3 years is quite
typical.  (Perhaps the dates listed on the "obi" wrappers of Japenese discs
refers to this?)  As far as I know, these exclusivity deals usually just
prevent non-Japanese versions from entering the Japanese market - I
wouldn't think that Japanese companies are usually that concerned with
their non-Japanese sales.  At least, in the world of pop music that would
seem to be the case.  Perhaps it is different with jazz releases.  I know
for a fact that Trattoria (sublabel of Polystar run by Cornelius) has been
ignoring requests from quite a few, admittedly small, distributors in the
West for years.  Which is to say that the Japanese market is by no means a
small and insignificant thing.

Of course, all this is subject to change if the Yen continues in the
direction it's been going in the last year - I think UK prices may already
be higher...(and if you want to talk about gimmickry, why don't you check
out some "two part CD singles")

Alexander

Radio Khartoum.           http://www.sirius.com/~xander/rk



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:43:23 +0000
From: "gschwend d. atelier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada Box

[e-mail] wrote:
>
 mean that Japanese companies will
> typically spend far more on packaging than their Western conterparts will
> (compare Avant/DIW packaging with the second rate printing used on Tzadik
> releases).


does anyone else on the list feel that tzadik uses 2nd rate printing on
its releases?

i've been working as a producer at a graphic designers place for some
time, and all of us here at the office are always astonished at how
outstandingly excellent tzadik's artwork is, and how well the printing
is done. (one thing i must admit though, especially in the filmworks
series, the writing on the back of the cd sleeves is often near to
impossible to read; but that's because the colours of the letters are
badly chosen.)

patRice

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 13:58:37 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: Masada Box



     patRice wrote:

>i've been working as a producer at a graphic designers place for some
>time, and all of us here at the office are always astonished at how
>outstandingly excellent tzadik's artwork is, and how well the printing
>is done. (one thing i must admit though, especially in the filmworks
>series, the writing on the back of the cd sleeves is often near to
>impossible to read; but that's because the colours of the letters are
>badly chosen.)

Just guessing, but I always assumed that was done either out of some perverse
desire to "match" the "unlistenability" of some of the music or simply because,
say, silver print looks pretty cool on a red/green solarized image.

But I entirely agree that the design in general on Tzadik releases is never
short of interesting, often gorgeous; Ikue Mori does striking work. The main
qualitative difference between Tzadik and Avant appears, to me, to be the
latter's use of finer quality paper stock.

For me, as I almost always am buying records which I haven't heard previously,
often by artists unfamiliar to me, package design does sometimes strongly
influence the decision. A recent example was John Wall's 'Fractuur', which comes
in a seductively heavy, linen-bound case; I find there tends to be a pretty
strong correlation between design and the musical substance contained therein
and, in Wall's case, this proved very correct--an outstanding release.

Brian Olewnick





- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:47:34 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Masada Box

To clarify the disparaging remarks I made about the look of Tzadik releases
earlier, I suppose I wouldn't criticize designs themselves so much, but the
execution.  Perhaps it's just that the designs are too ambitious for their
printer?  I adore subtlety, but many (perhaps all) of the Tzadik discs I
own seem murky and uneven in their print quality.  The white text on the
reverse of the covers is often more clear in places than in others, the
metalic outsides often seem to have been worn away at.  And in general, the
fonts are too fine for the printing resolution.

On the other hand, none of the Avant/DIW discs I have seem to show up the
limits of the printing techniques used.  Never murky, never having the dots
of the screen seeming larger than the skinny parts of the fonts.  Not that
the design is as consistent as the Tzadik designs (the last Misha
Mengelberg disc being particularly boring, and others, well, I can't even
remember...), but then again there was some lovely use of matte and glossy
surfaces on one or the other Naked City disc, and the printing on the disc
itself for Mori's "Painted Desert" has to be the most successful use of a
photographic image on a CD I've ever seen.  (Perhaps, even, the only one I
ever thought looked good?)

Getting back to the original topic at hand, I forgot to mention in my other
post that I'm in NYC this week, and I'm looking forward to finally seeing
Masada on Thursday at Tonic.

Alexander

Radio Khartoum.           http://www.sirius.com/~xander/rk



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:19:53 -0700
From: "Christian Heslop" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: collecting music

Speaking as someone who is definitely not a collector, I think that there
some very concrete rationalizations for collection that do not fall under a
completely acquisitonal motivation. All musicians and composers produce a
body of work that varies in quality and essence. Over time prodigious
musicians will produce an ouvre which may range quite dramatically over the
spectrum of good to bad conservative to exploratory etc. Those of us
interested in music and the making of music enrich our understandings by
listening to a musicians entire output regardless of the "value" of a
single piece within it. If you believe otherwise it may be reasonable to
say then that you should only keep in your music library those pieces and
performances that represent a musician's best work. But I would rather have
transitional and mediocre pieces of a grand puzzle than the finest release
ever from Collective Soul or Loverboy.
- ----------
> From: M. Lewis <[e-mail]>
> To: zorn list <[e-mail]>
> Subject: collecting music
> Date: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 6:31 AM
>
> >Am I imagining it, or are some of you more interested in
> "collecting"rather >than actually listening to and enjoying the music?
>
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:09:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Lili Boniche Discs Available in the US

Hello,

Anyone in the United States looking for the two new APC discs by Lili
Boniche, _Alger, Alger_ and _Boniche Dub_, are directed to the APC store
in New York City,  [phone].

Both discs are co-produced by Bill Laswell.  When I called today, the shop
had them in stock for about $35 for both.  International customers are
directed to the listing of shops found on the APC website, www.apc.fr

Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat,

Paul
[e-mail]

  GROOVE
- ----------
One Nation



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:24:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: MatSonOnLine 11 - 1998 September (fwd)

This just in...

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 21:19:56 -0000
From: Matnews <[e-mail]>
Subject: MatSonOnLine 11 - 1998 September

MATERIALI SONORI NEWS ON LINE 11 - 1998 September
___________________________________________________

<non-relevant content snipped>

UPCOMING RELEASES

JOHN ZORN  .  SONORA  - book + cd - edited by Walter Rovere & Carla Chiti
This 150-page book contains essays and interviews by Eugene Chadbourne, Franco
Minganti, Alberto Pezzotta, Claudio Canal, Carla Chiti, Walter Rovere and an
analysis of the Theatre of Musical Optics by Ela Troyano and Ruggero Bianchi.
Also included are writings on cinema by John Zorn and his complete discography.
The enclosed CD features rarities and unpublished tracks by JOHN ZORN with
EUGENE CHADBOURNE, POLLY BRADFIELD and 2000 STATUTES.

Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat,

Paul
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:42:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: collecting music

> >Am I imagining it, or are some of you more interested in
> "collecting"rather >than actually listening to and enjoying the music?

You seem to imply they are mutually exclusive.

Having a good music library is equivalent to having a good literature
library, IMHO. As the spouse of an archivist, I must say that I have a
very hard time getting rid of ANY music I buy, and I'm always wanting
more. Not because I'm a "completist" by any stretch, but that I'm
genuinely interested in the music, and interested in having it in my
library.

| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | |
| | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #470
*******************************


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