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v02.n469
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1998-09-21
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #469
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, September 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 469
In this issue:
-
Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
RE:buckethead / praxis info wanted
Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
Pierre Schaeffer box
Re: Masada Box
Re: NYC gigs inquiry (requested favor)
Re: Masada Box
Cadence redux
Collectors vs. appreciates: qu'est-ce le difference?
don't read my last post!
Re: Masada Box
jazz concert
david s. ware recommendations?
Re: david s. ware recommendations?
Re: Masada Box
Re: Bacharach
Re: masada 10; etc.
Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
Re: david s. ware recommendations?
Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:49:04 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
At 09:41 AM 9/21/98 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>*** - THE BEST OF THE GOLDEN PALOMINOS (1983-1989): Golden Palominos
>
> 1997 (1998?) - Music Club (???), MCCD 316 (CD)
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---
>
>Does anybody has an idea when it came out? Also, what is the country?
>
There is so much re-licensing of the early (pre-Restless) Golden Palominos
material that it is impossible to keep track. I asked Anton about all of
these re-releases and he said he hadn't seen many of them.
Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:58:55 +0200
From: Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl
Subject: RE:buckethead / praxis info wanted
Praxis "Live at Warsaw Summer Jazz Days" is easy to buy in Poland.
All who are interested in trading e-mail me privately.
Marcin
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:02:19 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:49:04 -0700 Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> There is so much re-licensing of the early (pre-Restless) Golden Palominos
> material that it is impossible to keep track. I asked Anton about all of
> these re-releases and he said he hadn't seen many of them.
The compilation claims:
Licenced from Charly
Does Anton get as much money from that as Fred Frith with KILLING TIME :-).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:03:32 -0400
From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com>
Subject: Pierre Schaeffer box
Does anybody know where I might be able to get this? All the usual outlets
long ago sold theirs and tell me that it's out-of-print though there may be
a future release on single CDs.
Best, LT
- ------------------------------------------------------
Lang Thompson
http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4
New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n'
Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:01:04 -0400
From: acapps@usit.net (ashley capps)
Subject: Re: Masada Box
>>Now that Masada 10 is out when can we expect the Box Sets on Tzadik to
>come
>>out?
>
>Doubtless some among us have the scoop, but what Bruce Gallanter told me
>once (in a qualified, speculative way, mind you---he wasn't implying he
>KNEW anything) that it'd be a year from the time 10 hit the shelves.
>I'm really happy now that all I got was ALEPH. In fact, I'm rolling in
>the aisles.
I'm a bit curious about this and similar reactions/concerns about the
upcoming Masada box set - especially the "I'm glad I didn't buy them" line.
Personally, I'm glad I've bought them when they came out because I've been
enjoying the hell out of 'em for the past few years. Am I imagining it, or
are some of you more interested in "collecting" rather than actually
listening to and enjoying the music? Just curious.
Ashley
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:55:34 -0700
From: rizzi@grin.net
Subject: Re: NYC gigs inquiry (requested favor)
Steve Smith wrote:
>
> Thu, Sep 24 John Zorn's Masada ($10)
Yesterdays S.F. Chronicle's ad for the S.F. Jazz
Festival had a listing for
Nov. 8th - John Zorn's Masada
rizzi
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:42:27 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: Masada Box
I have 7, 8, & 9 and my roomate has 1, 2, 3, 5, & 6. Once I heard that the
boxed sets were coming out (of course containing extra tracks) I didn't
want to buy them because I knew I would want to buy the boxed set. Now,
what gets me is the marketing involved. If they (Tzadik) know they're
going to release a set and they know exactly what will be on it, what's the
hold up? Go ahead and release it. It seems like they're waiting for
people to buy up 10 before they do it. Now maybe it's a annoying
contractual thing with DIW but it still sucks for us. I would really like
to hear Masada 10 but why buy it when I know I am planning on getting the
box later? That's $20 extra spent. I don't want to but I feel like I'm
being jerked around a little bit. I am really interested in the live set
that is supposed to be released as well. They always get us with the extra
tracks don't they?
Dan
>I'm a bit curious about this and similar reactions/concerns about the
>upcoming Masada box set - especially the "I'm glad I didn't buy them" line.
>Personally, I'm glad I've bought them when they came out because I've been
>enjoying the hell out of 'em for the past few years. Am I imagining it, or
>are some of you more interested in "collecting" rather than actually
>listening to and enjoying the music? Just curious.
>
>Ashley
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:48:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu>
Subject: Cadence redux
Hi folks,
Sorry if this is a wee bit tardy, but I get these things in digest form.
Anyway, I'd just like to chip in my 2 cents on Cadence, the bulk of which
is essentially a seconding of Eric's good post.
I happen to think that Walt Horn (the author of the review in question) is
one of the better reviewers on the staff, thoroughly grounded in music theory and history in a way that
enhances rather than detracts from his reviews. Of course, we may not
agree with the conclusions he reaches with these tools at his disposal
(for what it's worth, I think he ungenerously trashed the Joe Morris/Matt
Shipp disc, but I essentially agree with him about the merits of Masada 9
- -- IMHO one of the weaker discs of the series, and the point about
creeping exoticism shouldn't be dismissed either).
I also find it odd to suggest that the magazine has an aesthetic orthodoxy
at work. Having been the recipient of far too many hard-bop discs to
review in these recent months, I can tell you that I don't subscribe to
this notion (which isn't to say that I haven't liked some of these discs).
And just check out the year's best-of list if you wanna see what the
reviewers REALLY like -- Eric's is choice, by the way. The most common
names on everyone's list are Vinny Golia, Barry Guy, Tim Berne, Ellery
Eskelin, Joe McPhee. They're not all necessarily "downtown" but who really
cares?
I guess what struck me about this exchange, and the many other similar
debates, is that there are occasionally some rather uncritical defenses of
the artists discussed on this list (and no, I'm not suggesting that
William York did this). Personally, I think that Zorn has released far too
much material in recent years, much of it sub-par. But one of the things I
appreciate about ALL his work is a relentless questioning of the musical
taken-for-granted. When we start crowning his work with the
fawning adulation usually reserved for the Marsalis-clones, then we're
falling into some sort of deep irony.
I'd love it if Rusch sent me some more "downtown" stuff to review, but
would never feel a compulsion to privilege it over other musics. Shit, I'm
just happy to get free CDs.
Jason Bivins
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:52:07 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: Collectors vs. appreciates: qu'est-ce le difference?
My comment I should clarify: it was poorly chosen. I am HAPPY because
the Masada recordings are, IMHO, so consistently vital and musical and
noticeably different. What great music. My point of view was
RELIEF---relief that friends of mine had bought EVERYTHING already so I
could hear it and, frankly, experiment w/ my money. I also figured
they'd stick around in print for a while. I myself am excited about a
box because I'd get to take advantage of the possible outtake discs. If
the all-live box was released, I might get that instead. Anyone's
investment all along has been sound, I think.
An issue which I've thought about stems from Brian Eno's comment to the
effect that the problem w/ jazz is that so much of it just sounds like
more jazz. I see his point, and to an extent I agree with it. I have a
difficult time seeing why someone needs every Hank Mobley album, or for
that matter every Masada album. To me there is a general similarity in
form and approach (less true with Masada than Mobley, I think). Do we
need any more Charles Gayle? Do we need another Derek Bailey solo
record? I have an awful lot of Cecil taylor, Evan Parker, and John
Coltrane, but to my ears, you can get at least ten by each of them
without any two sounding remotely alike. In a music, what is there to
know? Creative music seems limitless to me, in theory. How far can we
analyze music from one source (be that a person, idea, or culture, even)
until we are plitting hairs, and resorting to critical theory to make
the redundant interesting?
>>....I'm really happy now that all I got was ALEPH. In fact, I'm
rolling in
>>the aisles.
>
>I'm a bit curious about this and similar reactions/concerns about the
>upcoming Masada box set - especially the "I'm glad I didn't buy them"
line.
>Personally, I'm glad I've bought them when they came out because I've
been
>enjoying the hell out of 'em for the past few years. Am I imagining it,
or
>are some of you more interested in "collecting" rather than actually
>listening to and enjoying the music? Just curious.
>
>Ashley
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:57:39 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: don't read my last post!
I just reread my last post. In additin to sounding stupid, the French
101 grammar was missing it's 'que'. Sorry, but I feel the need for
public penance. By the way, I just heard the new Dave Douglas MAGIC
TRIANGLE, w/ Potter, Perowsky, and Genus, and it's pretty good. Not my
favorite DD record, though. Very straight ahead. The instrumentation
and approach owe a bit to Masada, and not just superficially.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:36:51 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Masada Box
Maybe the delay in releasing the boxed sets (and this is purely wishful
thinking) is that they're trying to figure out a better way of releasing
them so that the real fans who bought all the single cds don't get ripped
off...?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:06:56 EDT
From: JazzmanDOL@aol.com
Subject: jazz concert
A concert of definate interest to new music fans:
Saturday, October 24, 1998
Birmingham Unitarian Church
651 Woodward
Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
8:30 PM
Leroy Jenkins - violin
Myra Melford - piano
Joseph Jarman - saxophone
Hope many of you can make it!! Only $15!!!
Dave Lundin 248-816-1647
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:31:45 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com>
Subject: david s. ware recommendations?
Any good place for a beginner to start? I've read in various places that
"Flight of I" would be the disc to pick up, although I have never seen it in
any record stores, real or virtual.
Thanks in advance,
Ben
http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:02:54 -0300
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: david s. ware recommendations?
Benito Vergara wrote:
>
> good place for a beginner to start?
> "Flight of I" would be the disc
Sure, that would be fine. The Great Bliss Vols. 1&2 would also be an
"easier" route in than most. A bit more spacious and gentle, maybe...
But what are you listening to now? You may want to just jump directly
into the fire and buy the new one, GO SEE THE WORLD, which is
absolutely, (IMHO) beautiful.
If you don't find what you want doing a few searches, let me know and
I'll dig some up for you.
best regards,
Rick Lopez
- --
Marilyn Crispell, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie
Workman discographies; Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000
Things; Time Stops; etc., at--
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:09:39 EDT
From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Masada Box
sorry, maybe i've missed something but i've worked in records stores for 6
years (yes one that carry most tzadik stuff) and have ner seen tzadik release
a box set before. have they? if it were to have all the material, and then
some it seems tzadik prices would dictate something upwards of $400, which
would relegate it to a few choice borders stores and major city jazz stores.
doesn't seem like a very profitable prospect to me. are you guys really sure
that would ever happen?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:54:55 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Bacharach
Jeff Gretz wrote:
> Has anyone heard the McCoy Tyner Bacharach Album?
I haven't heard it, but I haven't heard anything at all good about it, either, and
I seem to remember a zero-stars review in Pulse. Definitely bottom of your list
no matter what you think of the Mighty McCoy.
Ahh, Joe Jackson.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:59:25 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: masada 10; etc.
TagYrIt@aol.com wrote:
> << from the horse's mouth by proxy >>
>
> .....soon to be the title of the next Soul Asylum LP.....<G>
LOL! :-)
Steve
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:24:40 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
Jeff Spirer wrote:
> At 09:41 AM 9/21/98 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> >*** - THE BEST OF THE GOLDEN PALOMINOS (1983-1989): Golden Palominos
> >
> > 1997 (1998?) - Music Club (???), MCCD 316 (CD)
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >
> >Does anybody has an idea when it came out? Also, what is the country?
> >
>
> There is so much re-licensing of the early (pre-Restless) Golden Palominos
> material that it is impossible to keep track. I asked Anton about all of
> these re-releases and he said he hadn't seen many of them.
Patrice's subsequent message in this thread (which I read before I saw this one)
indicated that the material was licensed from Charly, which stands to reason.
Music Club is a British budget compilation label distributed in the U.S. by
Koch, which means their stuff is actually pretty easy to find.
The discs I've seen range from the sublime (a cheap sampler of early Nusrat Ali
Khan, a killing dub sampler, a nice survey of Astor Piazzolla's Milan label
albums, a Joe Meek collection!?!) to the ridiculous (one more offering of early
Sex Pistols boots, anyone? How about Andrew Lloyd Webber on panpipes? Or "The
Royal Philaharmonic Plays Oasis" Lame shit that can't even aspire to be the
stuff of legend...).
There's a website (run by former Goldmine editor Jeff Tamarkin) at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Jeff_Tamarkin/musicclu.htm
but I didn't see anything about the Golden Palominos on it. Maybe you want to
go through the site and e-mail Jeff (T., not S.).
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP: Jega, "Spectrum" - d'n'b that reminds of both Kraftwerk and Jean-Michel
Jarre... hmmm...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:45:54 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
At 12:24 AM 9/22/98 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:
>Patrice's subsequent message in this thread (which I read before I saw
this one)
>indicated that the material was licensed from Charly, which stands to reason.
Charly isn't the originator, however. They licensed it from The Music
Company, which owns the rights to Celluloid (along with Subharmonic) and
has done the licensing.
Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:47:29 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: david s. ware recommendations?
Benito Vergara wrote:
> Any good place for a beginner to start? I've read in various places that
> "Flight of I" would be the disc to pick up, although I have never seen it in
> any record stores, real or virtual.
"Flight of i" is a very good way in, but it's also quite hard to find, as it was
a product of a since-lapsed union between DIW and Columbia. But that was the
disc that hooked me, and I see it reasonbly often in second-hand shops.
I've frequently read that "Third Ear Recitation" is better still, but haven't
heard it. Of the discs I know, "Cryptology" and "Dao" impressed me mightily.
"Godspelized" is very important for marking the debut of the divine Susie Ibarra
and including a fine Sun Ra cover. "Wisdom of Uncertainty" on AUM Fidelity is
also very fine. But overall my impression is that the Ware Quartet has been so
consistent in its output, even given two changes of drummer, that almost
anywhere you start you give you a representative vision. (That said, and no
slight to the remarkable Whit Dickey, Susie Ibarra is far and away my favorite
percussionist to have played in this group.)
And while internet propriety keeps me from shilling too heavily for the new DSW
Quartet disc "Go See the World" (because I get paid by Columbia Records among
others during daylight hours, and they are DSW's new label), I'll simply say
it's in your local store later today if you're interested...
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:56:39 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: new Golden Palominos compilation...
Jeff Spirer wrote:
> >indicated that the material was licensed from Charly, which stands to reason.
>
> Charly isn't the originator, however. They licensed it from The Music
> Company, which owns the rights to Celluloid (along with Subharmonic) and
> has done the licensing.
Good grief. The question then remains... are any of the artists who made the
music seeing any money whatsoever for the continued life of their own work? (I
saw the Charly CD pressing of Zorn/Bailey/Lewis "Yankees" for the first time day
before yesterday and wondered the same thing...) That you mention Subharmonic in
the same sentence with the words "owns the rights to" makes me think the answer to
my question is no...
I'd had a pretty fond view of Music Club to this point, but I guess anything good
in the music business can be blighted somehow...
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP: John Zorn - "The Bribe" (snap...snap...snap...)
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #469
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