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v02.n465
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1998-09-18
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #465
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, September 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 465
In this issue:
-
X-Legged Sally
don cherry & penderecki
Joe McPhee: A Likely Story
Klezmatics Q (kinda off-topic...)
Masada 10/ Sonny Clark Mem'l/ new Zorn
Re: Joe McPhee: A Likely Story
Re: Masada Soundtrack
Re: Braxton
Re: All this shit that's been going down
Berne/Formanek/Bass instruments
Re: Squarepusher
Re:stop(please read)
Re: Masada Soundtrack
Re: masada 10; etc.
Re: Bass Ensembles
Shamisen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:16:27 +0200
From: nclaeys@unicall.be (nathalie claeys)
Subject: X-Legged Sally
>I must say that The one thing I REALLY like about this list are the off
>topic topics.
>For those of you who like/love/hate X legged sally a load of info at the
>following (although it is outdated) site :
>www.reference.be/xls
Sadly I missed this band when they did their gig here in Brugge. Isn't it
now on CD? With the title "Killed By Charity"?
If I am correct Vermeersch now plays in a band called Dolfijntjes XL. And I
am not missing that concert, I hope...
Uh, to insert some Zorn-content. Just this week I bought the "Great Jewish
Music: Serge Gainsbourg" cd. Must say that I am a bit disappointed with it.
Maybe the reason that I like the other (Burt Bacharach) one better, is,
that I already liked the original material more. Does that sound right?
Nathalie
np Control Data/Mark Stewart
"Flavours are electric"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:50:31 -0400
From: Caleb Deupree <cdeupree@interagp.com>
Subject: don cherry & penderecki
I seem to remember people with fond memories of a Don Cherry and
Penderecki collaboration from the early 1970s. Just received an
update from Forced Exposure which contains this:
CHERRY, DON/PENDERECKI, KRZYSZOTOF: Actions -- The New Eternal Rhythm
Orchestra CD (DEC 08). "Out of print on LP since 1973. This is the
ultimate free jazz and avant classical merger, which was also a major,
defining influence on cosmic rockers like Gong, Henry Cow, etc. With
cover art never previously released in the US (taken from the superior
Japanese Phillips issue rather than the US Everest LP) and original
lengthy liner notes (including an interview with Penderecki)."
Recorded Live at the Donaueschingen Music Festival, 10/17/71. Includes
three live performances, including the legendary "Actions for Free
Jazz Orchestra," conducted by avant garde composer Krzysztof
Penderecki. Players include: Manfred Schoof, Kenny Wheeler, Tomasz
Stanko, Paul Rutherford, Albert Mangelsdorff, Gerd Dudek, Peter
Br÷tzmann, William Breuker, Gunter Hampel, Fred van Hove, Terje
Rypdal & Han Bennink.
Is this the one? Is it as interesting as it looks? Or am I
misremembering previous threads again?
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions... funny thing about opinions, they can change.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:59:14 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Joe McPhee: A Likely Story
Concert at Merkin Hall, 129 W. 67th St, NYC on Friday, September 24:
Adam Rudolph's Moving Pictures
w/Hamid Drake, Ralph Jones and Oguri, a Butoh dancer
&
Joe McPhee
w/Rosi Hertlein (violin), Monica Wilson (cello), Dominic Duval
(bass) and Joe Giardullo (reeds--he plays a mean bass clarinet!)
McPhee is performing a piece called 'A Likely Story', inspired by the
late painter Alton Pickens, who I was fortunate to study with for a few
years and who introduced me to Joe back around 1975. I'm guessing it
will be a strong, heartfelt piece.
Tix are $10, $7 w/TDF
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:21:03 EDT
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Klezmatics Q (kinda off-topic...)
I have a chance to pick up a couple of Klezmatics CDs on the Flying Fish label
for a cheap price. Just wondering if anyone has heard any of this material
and if it is worth picking up.
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:40:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Masada 10/ Sonny Clark Mem'l/ new Zorn
I've been listening a lot to Masada 10 the past few days and so far its my
favorite, although I've only heard 2, 6, plus Bar Kokhba and The Circle
Maker. Its got a few songs that pretty much rock, #9 especially has a
great bass riff and is one of two songs on the CD that sort of follows
blues chord changes. There are also more midtempo songs (6 seemed to be
all fast or completely slow) and only one really slow one, a 14:00 song.
Also, there are parts in two songs where in the middle things break down
and it sounds almost like Zorn could be conducting (made me think about
Masada doing Cobra) for a minute, i don't know. Overall there are more
outside influnces (blues, surf, spy, straight klezmer)on this and a good
variety to the forms that makes the
"if Ornette was Jewish" description seem a lot less accurate. Or to put
it this way, I wasn't so excited about hearing this because I was thinking
it would just be more theme-solo-theme stuff but its not. Plus they sound
really loose and Joey Baron has some amazing drum solos. This makes me
want to go back and hear some of the others,
As for the Sonny Clark LP, I wrote this last week, I think this is great
but I should point out that it is much "straighter" than News for Lulu.
It has the same feel to it as the Sonny Clark and Grant Green records on
Blue Note from the early 60s, really smooth and after hours, but at the
same time they add their own voices to it. If that sounds like a good
description, I'd say get it, because its srangely hard to find (mine is
used vinyl).
I also wrote earlier about Ganyru Island that thought it sounded
interesting but that they really weren't connecting all the time, and I
still think this, but some people might disagree. I think Locus Solus and
Classic Guide to Strategy would are better examples of Zorn's duck playing
era. But it is long - 73:00 minutes, if that matters.
Aporias is one that someone else could analyze better- I just don't listen
to enough classical music. But I think there is a lot to this one and
I've liked it so far, different than Angelus Novus (I can't say better
because I love "Carny"). I'd like to hear other comments.
I haven't heard The Bribe, which I think I'm going to buy, or Music for
Children either, someone else at the station took those for review before
I could get to them. Music for Children sounds very interesting though.
FINally, about the Masada review in Cadence, its not that I disagreed with
it so much as that it criticized the CD conceptually, the before listening
to it part, to a point that is
rare in that magazine, something I'd expect from the Wire or something
really lame like Spin. It seems to be part of a trend in that magazine of
trashing Downtown related musicians (like Uri Caine as well). I mean, you
don't see them criticizing people for playing 1957 style hard bop (or
1967 style free jazz). Trying to define what is REAL or AUTHENTIC is
tricky and almost always reflects personal biases more than anything else,
so i think of good reviewers as folks who stay away from this.
Anyway... thanks for reading,
WY
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:39:48 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Joe McPhee: A Likely Story
I dopily wrote:
>
> Concert at Merkin Hall, 129 W. 67th St, NYC on Friday, September 24:
^^^^^^^^^
Should've been Thursday.
of course.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:42:50 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Masada Soundtrack
Circle9 wrote:
> That would be the soundtrack to the made-for-TV miniseries "Masada"-
> which was aired in the early 80s, not 1970. Must have been some mistake
> on the date.
You are correct. That's what I get for using the All-Music Guide. Lots of
handy info, except that some of it's dead wrong...
> Certainly a low point in Peter O'Toole's career.
Along with the roughly contemporaneous "Caligula," "High Spirits," and
"Surpergirl," I'd say. Give me "The Ruling Class," "Man of La Mancha," "The
Stunt Man" and "My Favorite Year" instead, anytime.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:03:41 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Braxton
Dan Hewins wrote:
> A C Melody sax is a sax that hardly ever gets used. For some reason I
> remember reading about it as being "not a real" sax, whatever that means.
> It's closest to a tenor, I think. Tenors are in Bb and Altos are in Eb.
> Maybe the C Melody is particularly easy to play. I don't know why it
> doesn't get used all that often.
Most likely it's because most school concert bands tune in B-flat, which makes
B-flat and E-flat saxes more prevalent than the C-melody, like B-flat clarinets
and B-flat trumpets are more prevalent than A clarinets and C trumpets.
About the only figure in jazz history famous for playing the C-melody sax is
Frankie Trumbauer, and he's mainly famous for having employed cornetist Bix
Beiderbecke... take it from there. The avant-gardists from Rahsaan Roland Kirk
onward liked to reintroduce archaic saxes, and it seems to have been the AACM
Chicagoans who have done the most for the C-melody lately. Braxton, more than
most, seems to appreciate use of such a horn just because others do not use it.
But as long as school bands are tuned to concert B-flat, the hegemony of the
B-flat tenor and E-flat alto are pretty firm. In the orchestra, which tunes to
concert A, the saxophone remains rare in general.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it, even if I'm full of shit. Can anyone
quote offhand the pitch of the soprano and baritone, the other two most common
saxes?
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:56:12 +1000
From: Peter Hollo <raven@fourplay.com.au>
Subject: Re: All this shit that's been going down
A few things:
I'd like to speak for all the digest-readers here. I don't know how many
agree with me but it's a PAIN IN THE ASS having to skip through piles or
rubbish to get a few interesting messages out of them. Yes I have a
delete key but it does stuff all when there's about 20 messages per
email! Please EVERYBODY, that's the complainers and the complainees,
just show some self-control and common sense. As someone pointed out,
the "stop stomp" thread took up more space than the "stomp" thread. If
something is off-topic it should really be Mike Rizzi (list supervisor)
who tells us; long threads of the "that's not suitable for this list"
type just make it even more tedious for digest users like me!
On a different note, both my parents LOVE Bar Kokhba and the Masada
disks. In fact, my Dad loved the Uri Caine Mahler CD ("Primal Light")
that he got me to order another copy and now plays it all the time in
his car.
But they're pretty open-minded cool kind of people ;)
Peter.
- --
Peter Hollo raven@fourplay.com.au http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html
FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet
http://www.fourplay.com.au
"Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and
your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:04:48 -0700
From: cd <cappyd@uvic.ca>
Subject: Berne/Formanek/Bass instruments
Speaking of saxophones, it was great to hear Tim Berne play so much bari
sax at the recent Victoria, BC concert with Michael Formanek. Instead
of playing mostly alto in an effort to stay out of the way of the bass
as many players would feel obliged to do, Berne and Formanek explored
and developed the unique textures that can be obtained by two
bass/contrabass instruments (though not necessarily limited to the lower
range of the instruments). Not that Berne denied the audience the
pleasure of his alto playing - plenty of this too.
Thanks to Mike et al. for organizing the show...
Any recommendations for recordings that feature ensembles of bass
instruments?
- -cd
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:15:43 +1000 (EST)
From: Aaron Chee-Kean Chua <a.chua@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Squarepusher
hi people,
this might be old news...but i just saw a new cd by "squarepusher" going
under a different name while browsing in "synathaesia" today.(great new
place to shop in melbourne, btw. ) tom jenkinson is apparently "chaos
a.d." didn't listen closely but sounded slightly different to his other
albums going by first impressions.
regards
aaron
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 03:00:20 -0700
From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net>
Subject: Re:stop(please read)
I don't like it. That is all. That's all I said in my first message. I
never suggested that we should prohibit discussion of certain groups. I
said "I think it's putrid"...."think"!! Okay? I think it was modestly
diffident enough to warrant being left alone. I probably shouldn't have
said.."How can you swallow
this corporate, token "out-there" music pill that they hand you?", but I
was mad.
I don't like it, but the context makes it even more odious to me. I don't
see why I shouldn't be allowed to say that. Disagreeing with your tastes
doesn't make me an "elitist".Why do you continue to attempt to characterize
my personal choices as aesthetic snobbery?
"Though I am less at odds with your
comments (which while they bother me, I know many of us are guilty of
elitism),"
" 'Well, if I like these genres and stand for these causes/political
viewpoints, then I can't possibly like these kinds of music over here and
I
can never recognize them as valid and must just snicker at them.' "
You couldn't possibly know that.I think genre may very well have been
invented for the sake of snobbery and I have never believed that it was an
indicator of value.I didn't decide that stomp was bad because TV's bad so
the Emmys are bad so STOMP is bad so STOMP makes TV commercial. People
often mock things that they really don't like. I only do it if I think I am
in the kind of company that I won't miff by mocking. That first message was
just me making a joke of my reaction to STOMP. If you think it's
flippant..well I'm sorry. BUT YOUR TASTES ARE NOT A PRODUCT OF YOUR VIRTUES
JUST AS MINE ARE NOT THE RESULT OF SNOBBERY.thats it.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 06:58:25 -0300
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: Masada Soundtrack
Steve Smith wrote:
>
> Give me "The Ruling Class," "Man of La Mancha," "The
> Stunt Man" and "My Favorite Year" instead, anytime.
Or El Aurens! El Aurens!! and his trusty camel boys...
[And thanks *again* Steve!]
- -RL
- --
Marilyn Crispell, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie
Workman discographies; Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000
Things; Time Stops; etc., at--
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:16:37 +0000
From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: masada 10; etc.
On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:16:45 -0400 (EDT), Patrick Ivan Jenkins wrote:
> I'd be interested in hearing responses to Masada 10. Does anyone
> have a copy yet? What's it like?
I've only been able to listen to it a couple times, so I don't have
a very detailed impression yet. It's a good, solid end to the series,
which doesn't depart from the precedent set by the first nine albums
yet does have enough newness to it to make it more than just "more of
the same." "Yechida" (from Bar Kokhba) is here, and so is "Tevel"
(from The Circle Maker). The track I'm currently listening to,
"Abrakala," is very long (14.28) and very quiet--slight rumblings from
Cohen and Baron, with long-tone ruminations from Zorn. The free-time
feel is like the first track on Alef, "Jair," but this isn't frenetic
in any way. Ah, now Douglas joins in, at about 8 1/2 minutes.
The track before this one, "Nashim," sounds more movie-soundtracky
than your usual Masada tune--not quite like the James Bond theme, but
with that type of propulsive feel. Hardly "Jewish" sounding at all.
The last track, apparently the last studio Masada track we'll hear,
is a fairly brief odd-time tune with the head played straight through--
no improv, other than the free accents by Baron.
All in all, it's great if you like "Pocahontas"-style schlock (per
Walter Horn in the recently-discussed Cadence slam-review of Masada 9).
Thank goodness it's just my thing.
Regarding Mr. Horn and his Masada review: I didn't like it, nor did
I like his trashing of Uri Caine's Mahler disc, but then I rooted
through my back issues and found that he just doesn't like any downtown
NYC stuff. I don't know why he continues to review the albums, but I
guess Cadence reviewers don't have a lot of control over what they get.
He liked the Derek Bailey/Joelle Leandre duet, at least.
I can't say anything about The Bribe that hasn't already been said,
though my reaction is somewhat less positive than most of the ones I've
read about so far. It's good, and Spillane-sounding, but the sound of
Spillane is less interesting to me than the way it was put together.
Some of the tracks on The Bribe seem to wander about for a while and
that's it. Again, though, I've had limited listening time and may have
a different perspective later.
I agree with William York regarding Ganryu Island--there seem to be
many times when Zorn and Sato may as well be in different rooms, with
Michihiro playing traditional-sounding riffs on his shamisen while Zorn
farts and bleats, and then Michihiro playing loud thwacking sounds on
his shamisen while Zorn farts and bleats. It's not bad, but 76 minutes
of it is a little tiring.
- -- Charles
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:40:54 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bass Ensembles
cd wrote:
> Any recommendations for recordings that feature ensembles of bass
> instruments?
While there are many, of course (anyone remember Peter Warren's one-off
group 'Bass Is'?), the low-down bassest group I can think of appeared on
one track of Roscoe Mitchell's "Four Compositions" (Lovely Music LCD
2021). The piece features Roscoe on bass saxophone, the late Gerald
Oshita on contrabass sarrusophone (a kind of mega-bassoon) and Brian
Smith on the triple contrabass viol, a string bass which, to judge by
the photo, is about ten feet all and must be played standing on a riser!
Oh, and Tom Buckner sings, which I could do without. Smith,
incidentally, did have a working band in the late 70's called the (NY?)
Bass Violin Choir, which included four basses (one was Fred Hopkins)
w/percussion; don't think they ever recorded.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:24:15 -0400
From: Peter Risser <risser@goodnews.net>
Subject: Shamisen
I'm listening to Ganryu Island, and though I remember it being a
fantastically noisy record ("Champion Air-Clearing Music" is how somebody
labelled it at my old station), I'm listening again and wondering exactly
what the deal with the shamisen is.
Honestly, it sounds kinda dorky on this album. All he does is go,
plunkplunk plunk plunk, plank plank plank plunk plunk plunk plunk plunk
plink plink plunk plink plank
You get the idea.
Now before I get tons of flames, let me explain.
I think the problem is, I don't understand the original Japanese idiom in
which the shamisen was used, so I can't appreciate maybe what he's doing.
At the same time, I don't hear that he and Zorn are really even working
together, except he's laying down a sort of rhythm base for Zorn's soloing.
Anyone have any insights on the shamisen, what I should be listening for
that would tell me that this is indeed a major shamisen event, and just
insights on Ganryu Island in general.
I really dig Zorn's solo stuff (Classic Guide to Strategy) and some of the
Parachute stuff, but I really having a problem getting into the shamisen.
Please elucidate, if at all possible.
Thanks,
Peter
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #465
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