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Zorn List Digest     Thursday, September 17 1998     Volume 02 : Number 461



In this issue:
-
       Re: STOMP
       Re: STOMP
       please stop
       Re: please stop
       Re: please stop
       Re: please stop
       Re: please stop
       Re: please continue
       Re: Coupla British composers
       Re: please stop
       Re: please continue
       Re: please continue
       Re: please continue
       Re: please stop
       Enjoy (Braxton) 1998
       Newband at World Financial Center
       Re: Enjoy (Braxton) 1998
       Re: please stop
       Re: please stop

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:25:53 PDT
From: "Brad Elsie" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: STOMP

>From [e-mail] Thu Sep 17 06:32:17 1998
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>Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:31:09 +0200 (MEST)
>From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: STOMP
>Message-ID:
<[e-mail]>
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>
>don't know if this is any list related but who cares....
>a friend of mine told me about a performance of a group called STOMP
she
>saw in new york city.
>she told me that they were doing all kinds of weird stuff by using
diverse
>kinds of tools on stage.
>anyone can tell me anything about these guys???
>are there any recordings out there???
>
>BJOERN
>www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt
>
>I saw them perform in Toronto in 1994 and the show was terrific. A few
of the interesting "instruments" incorporated into the performance were:

- - kitchen sinks full of water, pots and pans, hanging around their necks

- - oil barrels with ski boots attached

- - big reycling barrels

- - an apparatus as wide as the stage and about 20 feet high. 2 members
were in harnesses and jumped up and down and pounded items like license
plates, garbage can lids and other objects with drum sticks

- - zippo lighters (theatre was pitch black, members stood in a row and
would light them in patterns)

- - one guy even jumped around on a pogo stick!

The have an official website at www.stomponline.com

Brad

>-
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:58:52 -0700
From: "Christian Heslop" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: STOMP

>.  However the thing
> that struck me as strange is that for a group entirely centered on
> percussion and rhythm they stuck to the 4/4 for the whole time.  Not once
> did they even go 3/4!  I just thought that was strange.  Even the
> mainstream audiences that go to see that sort of thing more often can
> handle 3/4; they know waltzes.
    It's very strange but this always seems to be the case with these pop
"experiment" rhythm bands.I think it's putrid stuff. Just a lot of people
beating things in tight sequence with stupid fixed smiles on their
faces..doing little stick tosses and such...eeegghhh!


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:58:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: please stop

> >don't know if this is any list related but who cares....
> >a friend of mine told me about a performance of a group called STOMP

i care.  i didn't sign up for the *zorn* list to read about broadway shows!

b

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:48:24 -0400
From: "Chris Barrett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please stop

At 1:58 PM 9/17/98, Brent Burton wrote:
>> >don't know if this is any list related but who cares....
>> >a friend of mine told me about a performance of a group called STOMP
>
>i care.  i didn't sign up for the *zorn* list to read about broadway shows!
>
>b
>
>-

Christian Helsop wrote:
>        It's very strange but this always seems to be the case with these pop
> "experiment" rhythm bands.I think it's putrid stuff. Just a lot of people
> beating things in tight sequence with stupid fixed smiles on their
> faces..doing little stick tosses and such...eeegghhh!

Good to see the narrow-minded elitism still shows up on a list of
"open-minded people" dedicated to talking about experimental music.  I
guess the axiom "if its normal enough that people not on this list might
like it, then its trash and shouldn't be discussed" is still valid for many
folks.  Good Work!

- -Chris



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:16:27 -0700
From: "schwitterZ" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please stop

Why is it elitist to not like something and talk about not liking it?

s~Z




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:51:15 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please stop

    Chris,

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:48:24 -0400  "Chris Barrett" wrote:
>
> Good to see the narrow-minded elitism still shows up on a list of
> "open-minded people" dedicated to talking about experimental music.  I
> guess the axiom "if its normal enough that people not on this list might
> like it, then its trash and shouldn't be discussed" is still valid for many
> folks.  Good Work!

You are missing the tragic dimension of the problem. If we do not do anything
against such posts (talking about somewhat mainstream music), we might end up
to talk on the Zorn list about people that our parents might enjoy!!! Aren't
you scared by such a possibility?

    Patrice :-).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:26:22 -0400
From: "Chris Barre{t" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please stop

At 11:16 AM 9/17/98, schwitterZ wrote:
>Why is it elitist to not like something and talk about not liking it?
>
>s~Z
>

It's not the disliking it I have a problem with.  It's the manner in which
people say that they are offended that we should even talk about it at all
(unless, of course, Brent is tongue-in-cheek, in which case I am
over-reacting).  I just think that too often it seems like certain
communities in any of the arts (that is the avant-garde community or the
goth community or the punk community or the jazz community in music to keep
it relevant here)  have too much of a poo-poo attitude when discussing
works that don't fit people's certain definitions or category's (read the
comment about *broadway* shows.  Admittedly, I find very little or nothing
to like about today's broadway, but I did enjoy Stomp, and I thought Blue
Man Group was fantastic on many different levels, not the least  of which
was satire of the avante garde while being sorta avante garde at the same
time).

Basically I feel that, like it or hate it, things like pop (or broadway)
are vital if, for nothing else, than they give the more experimental
something to react to.  How can you tell if something is experimental
without a mainstream context?  I just hope that people don't feel that
liking experimental/avant garde music means disliking anything that isn't,
but sometimes it seems as some folks on this list do feel that way.

I like to think that people on this list have an unusually wide range of
musical likes, and comments like the  two I replied to in my previous post
sometimes make me wonder.  I guess it's only normal for people who are big
music fans/music obsessed (like myself) to be snobby about their tastes
(I've definitely been accused of that from time to time), but I just hope
that this discussion group is more open minded, not less, then the average
music listener.

Ok, enough ranting......

- -Chris



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:57:53 -0700
From: "schwitterZ" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please continue

I just think that too often it seems like certain posters have too much of a
poo-poo attitude when discussing other posters' musical attitudes that don't
fit their certain definitions or categories (eg., open mindedness).

Basically I feel that, like it or hate it, things like snobbery (or elitism)
are vital if, for nothing else, than they give the more open-minded
something to react to.  How can you tell if something is open-minded without
a snobby context?

I like to think that people on this list have an unusually wide range of
attitudes toward music...from snobby to open-minded...I say welcome them
all.

s~Z


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:56:27 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coupla British composers

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:05:55 -0400  Brian Olewnick wrote:
>
> Has anyone heard the music of either Dave Smith or John White (not names

John White was fairly well documented on Eno's amazing label Obscure. Like
most of the Obsure catalogue, the music was avant and still listenable.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:05:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please stop

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> You are missing the tragic dimension of the problem. If we do not do anything
> against such posts (talking about somewhat mainstream music), we might end up
> to talk on the Zorn list about people that our parents might enjoy!!! Aren't
> you scared by such a possibility?

I was *so* relieved when my father didn't care for Bar Kokhba. Still
escaping oldfartitude :-)

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:19:59 -0400
From: Taylor McLaren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please continue

MEEP! schwitterZ wrote:
>I like to think that people on this list have an unusually wide range of
>attitudes toward music...from snobby to open-minded...I say welcome them
>all.
Ah, but haven't you heard? Open-minded is *good*, exclusive is *bad*.
  There are days when I think that magazines like The Wire should be shut
down immediately for trying to convince people that they can absorb the
whole of the world's music, or at least that Biba Kopf can make you feel
ignorant on a monthly basis. I think that those of us who put up with this
sort of foolishness need to get a whole lot more CDs for free so as to put
a stop to arguments like this.

- -me



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:50:36 -0700
From: "schwitterZ" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please continue

<<Ah, but haven't you heard? Open-minded is *good*, exclusive is *bad*.>>

It's very very GOOD to G!:

 Sunday, September 13, 1998
HOT PROPERTY
The Sax Man and the Sea
By RUTH RYON, Times Staff Writer

Grammy award-winning saxophonist and songwriter KENNY G and his wife, Lyndie
Benson, have purchased a home in Malibu for $12.5 million, sources say.
     The musician, who has sold more than 40 million albums worldwide and
has been hailed as the No. 1 instrumentalist ever on the music charts, is
known for such laid-back hits as "Songbird," "Silhouette" and "Sentimental."
          He and his wife bought a Cape Cod-style home with six bedrooms and
9 1/2 baths. The home, built in 1991, also has two guest houses, a gym, a
movie theater and six fireplaces on almost two acres. The asking price was
$14 million.
http://www.latimes.com./HOME/NEWS/REALEST/t000083284.1.html


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:41:43 -0400
From: "Chris Barre{t" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please continue

It's gotta be the hair.

At 12:50 PM 9/17/98, schwitterZ wrote:
><<Ah, but haven't you heard? Open-minded is *good*, exclusive is *bad*.>>
>
>It's very very GOOD to G!:
>
> Sunday, September 13, 1998
>HOT PROPERTY
>The Sax Man and the Sea
>By RUTH RYON, Times Staff Writer
>
>Grammy award-winning saxophonist and songwriter KENNY G and his wife, Lyndie
>Benson, have purchased a home in Malibu for $12.5 million, sources say.
>     The musician, who has sold more than 40 million albums worldwide and
>has been hailed as the No. 1 instrumentalist ever on the music charts, is
>known for such laid-back hits as "Songbird," "Silhouette" and "Sentimental."
>          He and his wife bought a Cape Cod-style home with six bedrooms and
>9 1/2 baths. The home, built in 1991, also has two guest houses, a gym, a
>movie theater and six fireplaces on almost two acres. The asking price was
>$14 million.
>http://www.latimes.com./HOME/NEWS/REALEST/t000083284.1.html
>
>
>-



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:50:59 -0700
From: "Christian Heslop" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please stop

Can you really honestly say that Stomp is experimental music?I couldn't,
but I also don't see that experimental music has the lock on "goodness".Why
are you so hateful?Apparently you must like Stomp and my dislike makes me
"narrow-minded"
I don't think I characterized Stomp as too normal for me.I think I
suggested that it was vacuous.I'm a "narrow-minded elitist" because I don't
care for this sort of thing?I think what you said speaks for itself to your
disparagement. I saw stomp on the emmys and on a few other little
entertainment industry award and "pat ourselves on the back shows".Aren't
they the ones who made the soda commercials as well? How can you swallow
this corporate, token "out-there" music pill that they hand you? Stomp is
for the "viewer-at-home" to marvel at their eccentricity and shake their
heads at their cute little crazy music.Even if Stomp takes themselves
seriously, that is what they were used as.I really think character
judgements are out of place on this discussion list. I would like to think
that we could have more respect for people we know to have real concerns
about music.
- ----------
> From: Chris Barrett <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: please stop
> Christian Helsop wrote:
> >        It's very strange but this always seems to be the case with
these pop
> > "experiment" rhythm bands.I think it's putrid stuff. Just a lot of
people
> > beating things in tight sequence with stupid fixed smiles on their
> > faces..doing little stick tosses and such...eeegghhh!
>
> Good to see the narrow-minded elitism still shows up on a list of
> "open-minded people" dedicated to talking about experimental music.  I
> guess the axiom "if its normal enough that people not on this list might
> like it, then its trash and shouldn't be discussed" is still valid for
many
> folks.  Good Work!
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:28:11 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Enjoy (Braxton) 1998

I have been really enjoying Braxton's music lately and I thought I'd share
that with y'all.  In particular I have liked "Dortmund (Quartet) 1976,"
"Willisau (Quartet) 1991," and "Four Compositions (Quartet) 1995."  In
reading the liner notes of a couple of them I have learned of the existence
of "Performance (Quartet) 1979."  Does anyone have this?  How is it?  (I am
assuming it's good though...)  Is it in print?  If not, tapes?

Anyone know why he seems to avoid the Tenor Sax?

Dan



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:28:20 -0400
From: David Beardsley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Newband at World Financial Center

November 9, 1998, 7:00 p.m. * * * FREE * * *

"The Last Laugh" by F.W. Murnau
35mm silent film (1924)
score by Dean Drummond (1996)
performed live by Newband incorporating
conventional instruments, Drummond's own inventions
& the Harry Partch instruments

Wintergarden @ the World Financial Center
200 Liberty Street
NYC, NY
All the way downtown: between the river and the World Trade Center

Part of the Sonic Boom festival
Presented by
the New York Consortium for New Music
and
Miller Theatre of Columbia University
http://www.pangea.ca/~nycnm/

Joe Monzo reviews The Last Laugh as performed by
Newband, March 14, 1998, The Kitchen, New York, N.Y.
http://www.virtulink.com/immp/jux/j_index.htm#newband2.htm

Newband: http://www.spyral.net/newband/

Harry Partch: http://corporeal.com/welcome.html


- --
* D a v i d        B e a r d s l e y
*           [e-mail]
*
* J u x t a p o s i t i o n     E z i n e
* M E L A  v i r t u a l  d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:25:36 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Enjoy (Braxton) 1998

Dan Hewins wrote:
> "Performance (Quartet) 1979."  Does anyone have this?  How is it?

I assume this is "Peformance 9/1/79" released by hat Hut (2R19), a live
date from Willisau with a quartet including Ray Anderson, John Lindberg
and Thurman Barker. Not sure whether it's been re-issued on disc, but
it's a typically fine representation of AB at the time.

> Anyone know why he seems to avoid the Tenor Sax?

I've seen him play it live on a few occasions, but the only recorded
example I can think of (there are probably others) is on the "Six
Compositions: Quartet" release on Antilles from 1981 w/A. Davis, Helias
and Blackwell. Guess he eschews the lower reed group unless they're WAY
low!

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:24:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please stop

In terms of "people our parents might enjoy" you haven't seen all the
older folks kvelling when JZ et Masada(s) come out with some of his "hi
dee di" charts at functions liek Ashkanaz in Toornto.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:


> >
> > Good to see the narrow-minded elitism stork!
>
> You are missing the tragic dimension of the problem. If we do not do anything
> against such posts (talking about somewhat mainstream music), we might end up
> to talk on the Zorn list about people that our parents might enjoy!!! Aren't
> you scared by such a possibility?
>
>     Patrice :-).
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:04:36 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: please stop

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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i don't know what all the clamour about the mainstream, and this fear of what
parents may like is all about. if it doesn't reach the mainstream at one time,
in one form or another, then the experiment has failed. not withstanding that,
i know of parents who do like zorn's work. there is a hebrew teacher in her
sixties who wants to come listen to my massada CDs based on the fact zorn is
addressing issues of judaica through music. elistism is grand in the ways it
binds like minded people, but when you start thinking that no one else can
"get" what you like; that what the rest of the world likes and what corporate
america sponsors is beneath you basedeven partially on that fact, you are in
way over your head.
cw

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:24:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: please stop
To: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
cc: Chris Barrett <[e-mail]>, [e-mail],
        [e-mail]
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In terms of "people our parents might enjoy" you haven't seen all the
older folks kvelling when JZ et Masada(s) come out with some of his "hi
dee di" charts at functions liek Ashkanaz in Toornto.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:


> >
> > Good to see the narrow-minded elitism stork!
>
> You are missing the tragic dimension of the problem. If we do not do
anything
> against such posts (talking about somewhat mainstream music), we might end
up
> to talk on the Zorn list about people that our parents might enjoy!!! Aren't
> you scared by such a possibility?
>
>     Patrice :-).
>
> -
>
>

- -


- --part0_906080678_boundary--

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #461
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