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Zorn List Digest      Monday, September 14 1998      Volume 02 : Number 458



In this issue:
-
       Mingus and Steve Lacy
       Steve Lacy
       bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help
       Suggestions...turntable.
       Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help
       Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help
       Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help
       Roadrunner in Realaudio
       Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help
       reaction for fred frith
       Singe/M.Gibbs/G.Coleman/Gersh/Verb
       Re: reaction for fred frith
       Re: reaction for fred frith
       THANKS for the suggestions:
       tony conrad redux: but not an argument
       Re: tony conrad redux: but not an argument
       Journal Violone
       Re: Journal Violone

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:24:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mingus and Steve Lacy

The exchange of messages about Mingus was very good. Thanks for everybody
who gave an opinion. Most of them worth following and I will be doing just
that in my still beginning attempt to understand the music of CMingus.

Now: would it be possible to get similar approaches to the music of Steve
Lacy? I've just received a boot recording of one of his trio's shows this
year here in the US and I think it is great: where, how, why -- start to
listen to SLacy seriously? Also heard that Tzadik just released a Lacy
solo CD: is it any good? Finally: most of Lacy's CD's seem to be out of
print or are so expensive that they are not reachable: any suggestions
about tapes or used CDs?

Josef


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:43:01 -0700
From: "schwitterZ" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Steve Lacy

Lacy is so thoroughly documented, you're going to get an onslaught.

THE WAY gets the most listens around here.

THE GLEAM is second.

Don't miss either.

s~Z



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:58:57 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help

i need some help, i heard bar kokhba(circle maker) playing october 1st-3rd at
tonic. can someone please confirm this and give me information on how to get
tickets from tonic ASAP. is tonic all ages? thank you very much.
alexz

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:06:05 -0400
From: "Jason J. Tar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Suggestions...turntable.

>Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:54:08 -0500
>From: [e-mail]
>Subject: some suggestions please....
>i'm also interested in hearing some turntable/djtype stuff. not club music.
>musicians who push the boundaries of this instrument. any suggestions? thanks

Definately check out Otomo Yoshihide/Ground Zero if you haven't.
Particularly his _Les Sculptuers Des Vinyl_, in which Otomo leads a group
of 4 or 5 DJs.  Great cut up compositions.

Also Tsunoda Tsuguto (who is featured on _Les Sculptuers..._) has a few
tapes out that are rather impressive on his own label, Muni Muni.

Finally I might mention DJ Vadim on the Ninja Tune and Jazz Fudge labels.
Particularly his NT album _USSR Repetoire_.  Not as cut up as the previous
two, but still very interesting.

Also mix tapes by the Invisible Skratch Piklz are usually a safe bet...
(Especially Q-Berts' _Demolition Pumpkin Musik_ tape.)

- ---
Peace Hugs and Unity            Jason J. Tar
        W.    W.    J.    D?
                  (What would Jason Do?)
      http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason
              ICQ@13792120

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:42:37 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help

[e-mail] wrote:

> i need some help, i heard bar kokhba(circle maker) playing october 1st-3rd at
> tonic. can someone please confirm this and give me information on how to get
> tickets from tonic ASAP. is tonic all ages? thank you very much.

"My sources say it is so," according to the Magic 8 Ball that is
http://www.tonic107.comYou can only get tickets for Tonic by showing up the night
of the show.  Be there early if you want a seat... they are scarce when the crowd
is big.  Tonic is all ages, serves no alcohol as yet, and makes a mean turkey,
brie and arugula with honey-mustard on black bread with a large iced lemon berry
mint tea to wash it down (and those are but a few of the options).

BTW the Masada quartet is celebrating the release of Masada 10 with shows on
Sept. 24-26 at Tonic as well.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:05:40 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help

Steve Smith wrote:

> Tonic is all ages, serves no alcohol as yet, and makes a mean turkey,
> brie and arugula with honey-mustard on black bread with a large iced lemon berry
> mint tea to wash it down (and those are but a few of the options).

Oh wow... I may have to hit NYC just for that sandwich!

- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:46:14 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help

Joseph Zitt wrote:

> Steve Smith wrote:
>
> > Tonic is all ages, serves no alcohol as yet, and makes a mean turkey,
> > brie and arugula with honey-mustard on black bread with a large iced lemon berry
> > mint tea to wash it down (and those are but a few of the options).
>
> Oh wow... I may have to hit NYC just for that sandwich!

Yeah, and I didn't even mention the bad-ass thick-cut deli-style potato chips and the
cute little bunch of green grapes that come along with that particular sandwich.  And
don't get me started on the turkey, avocado and roasted red pepper...

And David Newgarden allowed me a little taste of his hazelnut gelato the other night
and I *swear* my knees went weak...  And did I mention that Tonic is run by the same
folks who control the extraordinary titular brew at alt.coffee?  Or that the lemonade
is *blue* because it's sweetened not with sugar but with blue Curacao (non-alcoholic
version, of course...).

And if you visit Tonic during the day, you can even get your hair styled!  What a
concept...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:54:26 -0400
From: Jack Blanton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Roadrunner in Realaudio

For anyone interested: Zorn's Roadrunner piece is part of the playlist on
Mappings with Herb Levy on antenna "radio" this week.  Go to
http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/pn.htm
It is the second from last track (#8).  Enjoy.


Jack Blanton
[e-mail]


Jack Blanton
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:50:13 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bar kokhba 0ctober/tonic/help

> http://www.tonic107.comYou

Wow, I don't get this computer stuff sometimes.  I don't know why Netscape decided to
get jiggy wit' it, but here's an accurate link to Tonic's site (for those who hadn't
figured out my botch already)...

http://www.tonic107.com

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
... PAYING my way in just like anybody else ...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:36:15 +0200
From: Stefan Verstraeten <[e-mail]>
Subject: reaction for fred frith

> >Fred Frith wrote
> >good day,
> >I'm interested in how intolerant or inflexible in their tastes some
> >people seem to be.  I think The Previous Evening is very beautiful -
> >but there seems to be an idea out there that only one kind of music is
> >allowed, and this ain't it!  I have no problem with anyone liking some
> >things more than others, we're all like that, but I find the air of
> >political correctness that goes with imposing your own opinion a bit
> >odd....  I hope those who find this kind of music arty-farty have the
> >courage to listen to it more than once, and preferably without distrac=
tion

First of all, thank you mr. fred frith for participating in the
discussion, but something bothers me quite a bit. Yes, I am the person
who found the previous evening a bit 'arty farty' (maybe these words
were a little bit too harsh, sorry for that). But, since this is a
discussion list, where all people share their comments on cd's, I
thought, why can't I express my opinion as well.
Accusing me (indirectly) of 'political incorrectness' really hits me
(and other people on the zornlist or frithlist who give their opinion on
cd's). Because Mr. Frith, when i shared my opinion on 'the previous
evening' it was IN NO WAY to distract people from buying this cd.
Plus, Mr. Frith, -as you seem to follow the discussions on the
discussion list- you know that it was I (the so called political correct
guy) who defened twice the 'meridiem' cd. Quite some people on the
zornlist and on the frithlist didn't like the album (that's an opinion),
but hey, that didn't stop me from saying to other people on the
discussion lists that they should listen N=FBs ([e-mail]) first
(the record, angels, is out on sub rosa, http://www.subrosa.net) first,
and then listen to meridiem, and see what a beautiful album meridiem was
and still is.... So, that makes me one time a political correct guy, and
the other (which you don't mention) i was one of the main defenders of
the meridiem album.

> >God knows what you'll make of Pacifica!  Better not buy
> >it I guess, wouldn't want to rip you off.

Well, as you know, Mr. Frith, i launched indeed the question what people
found of this album. As you can see on the frith list. Some people
disliked it, other people wrote to me saying that this was an album to
buy..... WHICH I DID, mr. fred frith. So you see, mr. frith, that the
opinions (NOT political correct statements) that were expressed by some
people didn't distract me from bying 'pacifica' (a great album by the
way, quite a lot more than what people called 'wallpaper ambient', fans
said this, not political correct persons)

So let's see,=20
(1)I shared an opnion on 'the previous evening', saying that the album
sounded a bit 'arty farty' to me (i allready said sorry for the
expression) BUT NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS A RIP OFF (that's a difference to
me), nor was it in my way to distract people from buying it, nor was I
IMPOSING MY OPNINION.
(2)I defended the 'meridiem' album
(3)Even with some negative opnions on the frith list, I still bought the
pacifica album (THAT PROVES THAT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAID OF THIS ALBUM
DID NOT CHANGED MY WILL)

Sorry Mr. Frith, but nobody on this lists does something like 'political
correct statements' (we have a listowner). We are just a group of people
who like the same music, who help each other out on finding albums,
labels,... And yes, we comment the albums a great musicians like you
mister fred frith. And when somenone wants to say something about an
album (remember the discussion on 'weird little boy'), he or she doens't
want to distract people or giving political correct statements or
imposing their will on other people. No way, he or she just wants to
share an opnion.

Accusing me and other people of 'policital correctness' really hurts me
mr. fred frith. Thats all I wanted to say.... to a very great musician.

Best wishes,
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 03:54:12 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Geoff S Gersh)
Subject: Singe/M.Gibbs/G.Coleman/Gersh/Verb

DJ Singe & Geoff Gersh
with special guests:

Melvin Gibbs-bass<>Grisha Coleman-vox<>MC Verb

turntables+guitar+flash+

Thursday Sept. 17  11pm
Alterknit Theatre @ the Knitting Factory
74 Leonard St.  219-3006

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:58:54 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: reaction for fred frith

A few observations on Stefans reply to fred;

    Its possible that stefan has taken offense where none was intended.
Where fred says  "god knows what they'd make of Pacifica", I think he
has his tongue planted firmly in his cheek.
    The term political correctness, though used quite often, has more than
one meaning. It started out as a self-effacing in-joke among
liberals/progressives in the US, mainly in response to the trend of
making the bureaucracy gender and race neutral, i.e  repairperson vs
repairman, african/american vs black  etc.
    Conservatives, who seem(at least in the US) to be unable to recognize
satire or self-criticism for what it is, seized upon the term as part of
an effort to demonize anything they perceive as left of center. Hence,
it has become a catch-all phrase for any authoritarian dogma that tells
people how to think/act/behave.
    In the context of Freds post, he seems (to me anyway) to merely be
expressing his disappointment that a lot of the people who liked his
more rock oriented works(Art Bears,Massacre, Keep The Dog, the Ralph
releases) are not keen on, and in some cases, highly dismissive, of his
more recent directions. Whether this is a case of an artist outgrowing
his fan base, or just a case of sour grapes, is open to interpretation,
but something tells me, Fred's comments are more a result of talking to
his fans on a regular basis, than a personal dig at Stefan.

just my 2c

RW

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:29:12 +0200
From: Stefan Verstraeten <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: reaction for fred frith

[e-mail] wrote:
> A few observations on Stefans reply to fred;
> but something tells me, Fred's comments are more a result of talking
>to his fans on a regular basis, than a personal dig at Stefan.
> just my 2c
> RW

Yes indeed, but that leaves one question open:
When someone gives an opinion on a record (and we all remember the
discussions on 'weird little boy' and 'nanni nanni' by John Zorn), does
this person actually wants to distract people from buying this record
(as mr. fred frith said) or does this person just wants to share his or
her personal point of vieuw.
Personally, I never want to lay my will upon people when I give my
opinion on a record (after all, who cares about my opinion and what is
it worth.... damned, I ain't no dictator, I'm just a music lover), I
just want to share my feelings towards a specific record.... isn't this
what the discussion list was created for???
But hey, this is the last thing I say about this (public) discussion
between Fred Frith and me. He gave his point of the discussion, I gave
mine. He's a very great musician, I'll just shut up.

Stefan

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:43:26 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: THANKS for the suggestions:

thanks to those who emailed and posted mingus suggestions.
one more question:

i saw an album on vinyl which featured mingus and cecil taylor (i think as a
duo.) has anybody heard this album?

thanks again
jt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:18:22 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: tony conrad redux: but not an argument

I really should go back to the archives, but since it's been about a
month since the TC thread, I'd like to ask for forgiveness and grace,
and a handful of private e.mails, so as not to disrupt the list.

Could I get a few opinions re: Conrad's EARLY MINIMALISM vol. 1, or--for
that matter--any of his work?  I finally made it over to the Table of
the Elements Tony Conrad site, and the box set LOOKS great.  But what
does it sound "like"?  Please understand, I don't know anyone who's into
this stuff.  I suppose ya'll could post, if it'd be helpful to anyone
else.

Thanks in advance, happy listening to all.

- ---scot

NP:  Mauricio Kagel's String quartet #2.  Weird, intersticial stuff.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:40:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tony conrad redux: but not an argument

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Scott Handley wrote:

> Could I get a few opinions re: Conrad's EARLY MINIMALISM vol. 1, or--for
> that matter--any of his work?  I finally made it over to the Table of
> the Elements Tony Conrad site, and the box set LOOKS great.  But what
> does it sound "like"?  Please understand, I don't know anyone who's into
> this stuff.  I suppose ya'll could post, if it'd be helpful to anyone
> else.

The boxed set does look great, with sharp packaging, an intriguing large
booklet, and good CD-ROM material on one disc.

His other CD, "Slapping Pythagoras", looks intriguing at first glance, but
the text is almost unreadable.

As for the music, well... it's less noisy than Metal Machine Music, more
varied that 60-cycle hum, and more exciting than an MRI scan. It's a good
representation of what he does live, except it's easier to escape a CD.

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:24:02 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Journal Violone

I found a copy of Barre Phillips's first solo recording 'Journal
Violone' for sale today and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on
this. Every reference I've read or heard to this record has called it
"very early solo recordings" or something implying that it isn't very
mature. I'm wondering if this is true or not and whether this record is
worth buying. Any thoughts?

Also, did the Jazz Composer's Orchestra double-LP (w/Pharoah, Rudd,
Cecil, etc.) ever get reissued onto CD? I found a copy of that too.

                -Tom Pratt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:55:20 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Journal Violone

Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> I found a copy of Barre Phillips's first solo recording 'Journal
> Violone' for sale today and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on
> this. Every reference I've read or heard to this record has called it
> "very early solo recordings" or something implying that it isn't very
> mature. I'm wondering if this is true or not and whether this record is
> worth buying. Any thoughts?

I've never gotten to hear this, though a bass-player friend thinks it's
the finest bass-oriented thing ever put to wax.
>
> Also, did the Jazz Composer's Orchestra double-LP (w/Pharoah, Rudd,
> Cecil, etc.) ever get reissued onto CD? I found a copy of that too.
>
Yes, JCOA released it four or five years back, though I get the
impression that it's no longer in print. It was on one CD with, for
reasons I don't understand, tracks 3 & 4 flip-flopped, thus giving you
the Sanders onslaught back to back with the Taylor maelstrom. One of THE
greatest records ever made, IM-increasingly not so-HO.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #458
*******************************


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