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Zorn List Digest      Wednesday, August 26 1998      Volume 02 : Number 450



In this issue:
-
       Re: new Greg Cohen release???
       Re: Not only can everyone make music but...
       YO! MILES: what a fantastic record!
       RE: Zorn List Digest V2 #449
       Greg Cohen in Wild Man Blues
       Straylight w/ Joe McPhee
       Re: who can help me find those Bill Laswell albums please
       Re: who can help me find those Bill Laswell albums please
       zorn in boulder
       Re: Percy Grainger?
       Re: who can help me find those Bill Laswell albums please
       Swans / Bill Laswell album
       piano pieces
       Re: YO! MILES: what a fantastic record!
       Re: piano pieces
       Recent Goodies
       Re: Brian's recent goodies

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:38:03 -0400
From: Marc Downing <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Greg Cohen release???

>Has Cohen's performances in Woody Allen's documentary been discussed to
>death here?
>
>Keith

Not at all.  I'd love to hear about it too.

Marc



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:19:50 -0400
From: Marc Downing <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Not only can everyone make music but...

>By the idea of a piece I mean a sort of system an artist might be
>using when playing or composing. I'm aware of the fact that I'm
>reasoning abstractly here, but I think such a system really exists in
>a true ARTists mind. This system, I think, is used also when
>improvizing. An aspect which shouldn't be underestimated in the case
>of improvizing is the fact that a particular artists uses partly
>musical forms that he/she is familiar with, a kind of personal
>statement or maybe the easiest way.

It seems to me that this "system" could be anything from a developed sense
(judgement, style, taste, etc.) of melody to something more
intellectualized (a twelve-tone "system", for example) to  skill with
collage (the ability to blend melodic ideas,"personal statements",
references to other pieces and styles, etc.).

This would mean that there're an awful lot of ARTists out there, which is a
very good thing.

Marc




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:37:50 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: YO! MILES: what a fantastic record!

    I could not believe how good YO! MILES (Henry Kaiser and Leo Smith's
2xCD tribute to Miles Davis) is!!! They cover electric Miles (early '70s) and
the playing is fantastic (Leo Smith, in particular, is astonishing, and Rova
Sax. 4tet provides some awesome blowing).

    The first CD is so good that I played it three times (and I am sure
it is close to 74mn). The first track was good enough to make me pause what
I was doing; the second made me stop completely to listen to. And the pressure
seems to never stop. As a result I have no clue how the second CD is. But I
doubt that I will be disappointed.

    Patrice (also waiting for Bobby Previte's The Horse).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:36:56 -0300
From: "Claudio Koremblit" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Zorn List Digest V2 #449

> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:20:00 -0400
> From: Caleb Deupree <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Percy Grainger?
>
> >>>>> "Jeroen" == J T de Boer <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>     > I recently bought 'Perks' by Jon Rose, an interactive
>     > badminton-game based on the music and writings of
>     > Australian composer/pianist Percy Grainger. Has anyone
>     > ever heard his music? The linernotes mentioned he is one
>     > of those unrecognized very talented 20th-century
>     > composers.


    But he also
> supposedly made some extremely experimental music, homemade
> instruments, unusual tuning systems, etc., which AFAIK is not
> represented in any recording.  I believe he was gay in a time and
> place which did not appreciate it, which contributed to his
> obscurity.
>
> Caleb T. Deupree

And, like Ezra Pound, Grainger was marked for his political ideas in
the hard times of the war. He was accussed of Nazi. And for this
was left out of the "great music history", but was a great innovator, like
Pound, sure.

CK


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:55:55 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Greg Cohen in Wild Man Blues

Not at all. I'd love to hear about it too.

Marc

There's not a lot to say. I sneaked out to the theater to see this
documentary account of a Woody Allen Band Eurpoean tour ashamed to be giving
my support to that licorice stick licking scandal incarnate, and low and
behold who was on stage plucking the bass in the band? Our own Greg Cohen,
grinning and plucking the whole movie through. Is Cohen a regular or even
irregular in Allen's NY gig?

Keith








- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:07:53 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Geoff S Gersh)
Subject: Straylight w/ Joe McPhee

Straylight Dialogues w/ Joe McPhee and Michael West
Monday, August 31, 1998  -  9 & 11pm
Alterknit Theater, Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St. NYC
info / tix  212.219.3006

Straylight Dialogues continues to explore improvised musical languages as
special guests Joe McPhee (reeds, brass, electronics), a jazz and new
music
innovator for over 30 years and Michael West (voice), a specialist in
extended
vocal techniques and vocal traditions of Africa, Asia, and the Americas
join
Straylight's members Jason Finkelman (berimbau, riti, percussion), Geoff
Gersh
(guitar), and Charles Cohen (Buchla music easel) for an evening of music
alone
and in collaboration.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:11:23 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: who can help me find those Bill Laswell albums please

At 11:07 AM 8/25/98 +0200, Stefan Verstraeten wrote:

>(1)Various Artists : Sample Material. It's on a Belgian Label called
>Sounds Good. Funny though, I live in Belgium

I don't think that this was ever distributed.  I am fairly certain it was
just created as a tool for musicians.  I have only seen one copy, which was
Bill's, and is the one the cover was scanned from for the web site.

>(2)Swans : This burning world (on the uni label)

This shows up in used bins every now and then.  It has been out of print
for years, but Swans fans generally don't like it and sell it.  But perhaps
by now they have all been sold...


Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:39:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: who can help me find those Bill Laswell albums please

> >(2)Swans : This burning world (on the uni label)
>
> This shows up in used bins every now and then.  It has been out of print
> for years, but Swans fans generally don't like it and sell it.  But perhaps
> by now they have all been sold...

Some of this material will be re-issued in the near future on Atavistic
Records (USA).  The Swans are in the process of selecting what they
believe to be their best work and re-packaging it to maximize the chance
of it staying in print.  Unfortunately, this means that several albums are
being whittled down.  The Swans themselves apparently dislike _This
Burning World_, so count on it to be diced up.

Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat,

Paul
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:58:06 -0600
From: "M. Forrest  Lewis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn in boulder

does anyone know if zorn has ever played in boulder colorado, or any dates
coming up? i live in a really socially retarded area where the extent of
our concert line-up's consist of loverboy or april wine, and that's if
we're lucky ;(
boulder would be the closest place i can think of that might even come
close to having anything remotely experimental...

- -louie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:12:22 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Percy Grainger?

Caleb Deupree wrote:

>     Jeroen> I recently bought 'Perks' by Jon Rose, an interactive
>     Jeroen> badminton-game based on the music and writings of
>     Jeroen> Australian composer/pianist Percy Grainger. Has anyone
>     Jeroen> ever heard his music? The linernotes mentioned he is one
>     Jeroen> of those unrecognized very talented 20th-century
>     Jeroen> composers.
>
> Grainger has two different kinds of works, piano pieces that are
> largely folk song based (the piece Country Gardens is reasonably well
> known, and was spoofed by an Allan Sherman comedy hit in the 1960s),
> similar perhaps to some of Ralph Vaughn Williams' work.  This music is
> represented at least to some extent in recordings.

A huge extent, really... Chandos is issuing a series of all of his music.
I don't know if that will eventually include the more experimental things
you mention below (excellent synopsis, by the way), but it has already
presented most of the orchestral, choral and solo piano music as well as
some of the songs.  Those who are curious should try to find "The
Warriors," a really interesting tone poem with some downright Ivesian
pantonal stuff in it.

> supposedly made some extremely experimental music, homemade
> instruments, unusual tuning systems, etc., which AFAIK is not
> represented in any recording.  I believe he was gay in a time and
> place which did not appreciate it, which contributed to his
> obscurity.

His politics have been mentioned elsewhere in this thread (he was a
virulent racist), but I would add that he was not only gay but an S&M
fetishist and a self-flagellant as well.  Yet he was married in a huge
public ceremony at the Hollywood Bowl, and reportedly wanted to have
children expressly so he could beat them (happily, he had none).

But he wrote some delightful and beguiling music... the popular song
"Danny Boy" is based on the same melody as his "Irish Tune from County
Derry."  And most folks who came up through the American school band
program probably played "Lincolnshire Posy" at some point during junior
high school.

The Percy Grainger Society maintains a good website that talks about the
new music experiments, if not the lifestyle, at
http://www.tisl.co.uk/grainger/PAG.htm

In addition, there is a fine article that talks about all of his music,
his politics and his S&M leanings (inspired by beatings from his mother)
at
http://www.futurenet.com/classicalnet/composers/features/grainger/grainger.html

"People like me ought to be burned at the stake." - Percy Grainger,
1882-1961

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:28:27 -0500
From: clockwise <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: who can help me find those Bill Laswell albums please

>>(1)Various Artists : Sample Material. It's on a Belgian Label called
>>Sounds Good. Funny though, I live in Belgium
>
>I don't think that this was ever distributed.  I am fairly certain it was
>just created as a tool for musicians.  I have only seen one copy, which was
>Bill's, and is the one the cover was scanned from for the web site.


I paid $100 dollars for that piece of shit, and it is total garbage, almost
none of the samples were isolated from the original tracks, so in essence I
spent all that money for 3 second snippits of music I already owned. I
always assumed all Laswell had to do with it was releasing the copyright. I
can't imagine he would think that cd would be a useful tool for anyone
looking for sounds.

peace

clockwise


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:12:49 +0200
From: Stefan Verstraeten <[e-mail]>
Subject: Swans / Bill Laswell album

Dear Zornies,

Thank you everybody for the help on finding the sample material of the
axiom label (especially Rich Williams for giving me an online store,
cheers mate, I owe you one).
As far from the other emails I got, This Burning World by the Swans
seems (a) out of print and (b) is never going to be reissued.
So, does anyone on the zornlist has a copy (or knows someone) that wants
to trade or sell this album or is willing to make a copy of it?

Thank you very much,
- --
Stefan Verstraeten

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:42:32 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: piano pieces

I suppose the question of where to find written music (if it is to be found
at all) has been asked regularly on the zorn-list and I hesitate about
asking the question now. But I didn't see anything about it in the faqs. And
a research on the internet gave nothing either.
I am asking this for a friend who needs specifically Anthony Colemans
scores, where to start looking for that ? Whom to ask, are these musics
published, distributed ? The question goes also for pieces written by others
and played by Coleman.

Last week for instance I saw Klucevsek scores for sale at one of his concerts.
Should we try to reach Coleman through... Tzadik or something ?
Thank you for any answer.  Benjamin


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:14:17 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: YO! MILES: what a fantastic record!

On Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:02:28 -0500  Jeff Schwartz wrote:
>
> Me, I'm unsure what to make of Yo Miles after one
> listening. Yes, everyone plays amazingly, but it's so
> close to the originals-to the point that Henry recreates
> some of the trademark tones of Pete Cosey and John
> McLaughlin and Smith uses a wah-wah for the first time in
> his career. I fear that these cats are just a bit too
> faithful or literal in their tribute, so that the question
> "why should I play Yo Miles when I can play Panagea?"
> comes up. I hope this album is as controversial as
> Panthalassa.

It is true that the music is very faithful. But is it a problem? I mean,
every month there is a new orchestra which puts out a new interpretation of the
5th by Beethoven and nobody would even dare to complain about it. So, in the case
of Miles, who has accumulated so much music in so many different styles, should
we discard any interpretation of his music because we still have Miles' records
with us? What I like with this record is that it shows that Miles' electric
period is also a repertoire (a lost concept in modern jazz), something that you
can cover now and it still sounds fresh. The interpretation could have been trite,
boring, uninspired (common with tributes); it is not.

Also, I am sure that there is more variety in their interpretation of Miles'
music than in what most classical ensemble brings when they put out one more
version of a famous piece :-). Sorry, but cases like Glenn Gould are the
exception, not the rule.

This record makes me feel happy because it is enjoyable music played by people
(I guess) who had great pleasure to do it, and it sounds so good.

But, yes, this is not a record for somebody who's looking for the next
experimentation. It is record which proves that what used to be experimentation
in the early '70 (and late '60), is not anymore. This is a music that new
musicians can borrow and play. It is successful experimentation: it works 30
years after.

    Patrice (not a masochist for this time).
.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:12:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: piano pieces

On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Benjamin Pequet wrote:

> Last week for instance I saw Klucevsek scores for sale at one of his concerts.
> Should we try to reach Coleman through... Tzadik or something ?
> Thank you for any answer.  Benjamin

transcriptions!!!

thats the best way.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 14:20:15 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Recent Goodies

New cds, old cds, always music.

The Lounge Lizards  Queen of all Ears  Strange And Beautiful Music

Very beautiful music, and not strange at all. A friend of mine said this
was the best album of the ... next year!.
If you don't have this one, go get it. Highly recommended.

Moguilevsky y Los Acusticos  El Viaje  Epsa

An Argentine five members group with a great sound.
Moguilevsky plays woodwinds and the rest of the band includes
violin/piano-guitar/electric and acoustc basses/drums and percussion.
Their first cd; improvisations and melodies with Jewish elements, local
music (they states in the booklet "with litoraleno or criollo air")
rather close to "folklore" and kind of abstract tango.
Good. Worth hearing.

Astor Piazzolla  Concierto de Nacar  Editions Milan Music

Amazing. Outstanding. All favourable adjectives you'd like to add is
permitted.
Live concert on June 1983, released 1997. This is the late Maestro with
his Conjunto 9 (Ensemble 9) formed with musicians who were not those of
the original 1971-72 group; also there's a Filarmonic Orchestra in the
second part of the cd (Concerto for Bandoneon) that accomplishes a sound
that is unusual for Piazzolla, really a symphonic explosion.
The "Buenos Aires Zero Hour" version is unbelievable.
Just a delicious stroke in my ears and soul.

Not quite "recent", but new to my collection.

Peep;  The Joy of Being  KFW

Probably known to those who assist at the Knit, this group has been an
authentic surprise to me. I'm really amazed with this cd; lots of
energy, wide-ranging influenced music that include free jazz, humour,
European Circus and gipsy-like cadences. IMHO, an authentic masterpiece.

Peep; are: Michael Attias, alto and baritone; Robert Cimino, percussion;
Fred Longberg-holm, cello; Edward Ratliff, trumpet, trombone, euphonium,
accordion.
Not to be missed.
BTW, is there any other Peep;'s cd in the stores?

Sorry for being so longish.

- -Hugo

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:27:53 -0800
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Brian's recent goodies

Sorry for the digest delay here:

Brian Olewnick wrote

>>Fractuur
>> Excellent!  More subtle than Alterstill, moving into a unique sound
>> world.  The samples are no longer as recognizable, and he blends in
>> live instruments as well.
>
>Again, after one listen, I was pretty impressed. As you mentioned, the
>samples are virtually unrecognizable (I think I picked out some
>Penderecki and Xenakis, but that was about it). In that sense, he seems
>much closer to Carl Stone than Oswald and others, though the output is,
>musically, much different.

I'm interested in Brian's characterization of Stone, Wall & Oswald here.
In my mind, Wall is the outsider of the three, rather than Oswald.

If by the above you mean that Stone & Wall are similar in that their main
interest is to create new compositions out of sounds from others as opposed
to presenting a new look at an older composition by manipulating its
components (I realize this characterization of "Oswald and others" is
exaggerated & reductive) then I think I understand your point.

But one of the things that makes the output of the two so different is that
Stone works very idiomatically within the traditions of elecronic music,
while Wall seems almost to be making a kind of acoustic instrumental music
using sampling technology to create pieces that could be played by live
musicians, if the right musicians came together.

For the most part Wall's work could be transcribed in music notation and
handed out to musicians who had wareness of contemporary performance
practice.  He rarely, if ever, uses the sampler or other processing devices
to significantly alter the timbre of an instrumental sound.

Again this is something of an exaggeration, but this is one of the things
that makes Wall's music relatively unusual when heard in the context of
most other people who specialize in sampling technology, but significantly
less unusual in the context of the composers who get name checked as being
sampled by him.


Herb Levy
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #450
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