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1998-08-24
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #449
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, August 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 449
In this issue:
-
"Downtown NY" comes to Philadelphia
Re: Brian's recent goodies
Re: Downtown Lullaby was re:mild dissension
Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
Re: Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
Re: tony conrad's no bomb, but the bomb
Zorn, coleman and Serphadic Tinge.
Ignore, unless you live in Hawaii
Re: Not only can everyone make music but...
new Greg Cohen release???
Re: new Greg Cohen release???
Re: Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
Re: Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
Re: Not only can everyone make music but...
Percy Grainger?
who can help me find those Bill Laswell albums please
Re[2]: Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
Re: Percy Grainger?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:29:08 -0400
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: "Downtown NY" comes to Philadelphia
For all of you out there in the Greater Philadelphia area who are tired
of the 2 hour journey to NY to see and hear good jazz:
SWEETNIGHTER PRODUCTIONS
PRESENTS
Check out our web site at
http://home.att.net/~lankina/sweetnighter
UPCOMING SHOWS
September 4 8PM
OTHER DIMENSIONS IN MUSIC
October 4 4PM
KEN VANDERMARK 5
October 10 8PM
ANDY LASTER'S HYDRA
December 6 4PM
URI CAINE'S MAHLER/PRIMAL LIGHT
If you would like to be added to our mailing list send your info to
aek1@erols.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:28:31 -0400
From: "Jason J. Tar" <tarjason@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: Brian's recent goodies
>Kevin Drumm Kevin Drumm
What is his music like? I noticed that he'll be playing in Chicago in
October with Otomo Yoshihide.
> brian> John Wall Fractuur
>Resonance magazine with Wall playing live with some DJs on the CD --
>I'll post something when I've had a chance to listen to it.
The track is quite good, though the rest of the disc didn't strike me.
(Except for Ground Zero vs. Xentos. Anyone ever heard of Xentos before??)
>Again, after one listen, I was pretty impressed. As you mentioned, the
>samples are virtually unrecognizable (I think I picked out some
>Penderecki and Xenakis, but that was about it). In that sense, he seems
>much closer to Carl Stone than Oswald and others, though the output is,
>musically, much different. I hadn't heard his work before--is his
>earlier stuff well worth checking out?
_Alterstill_ is quite good, though a bit noisier and easier to pick out
samples. _Fear of Gravity_ however isn't so good. I've only listened to
it a few times, but it never struck me as anything close to as good as the
other two.
The Resonance Magazine does have an interview with him, though I've yet to
read it.
Some recent purchases of mine which may be of note on this list include:
Jon Rose _Techno Mit Strungen_. live recording featuring some 20+ artists.
Main three seem to be Frank Schulte (?), Otomo Yoshihide, and Christian
Marclay. Some notables among the others include Rose, Chris Cutler, Fred
Frith, Mark Ribot, Evan Parker, etc. Haven't listened to it enough yet,
but seems fairly good. Lots of diversity and not too meandering. :)
Broken up into 34 tracks to help future listens.
Orchester 33.3 on Mego. Not the normal sine wave, noise of Mego, but some
actual compositions. A 13-piece ensemble lead by Christian Fennesz and
Christof Kurzman, it does combine well several genres of sound. Again I
haven't listened enough to make too valid of a review, but it seems fairly
well done. Peter Brotmann guests on one track.
Unfortunately, while both cds have information in English, the liner notes
are in German in both, and the Orchester 33.3 has multimedia in MAC only,
so can't tell if those add any aspects to the works. Bother.
- ---
Peace Hugs and Unity Jason J. Tar
W. W. J. D?
(What would Jason Do?)
http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason
ICQ@13792120
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 11:42:23 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re: Downtown Lullaby was re:mild dissension
>Sheena Parkins-Isabelle
Ah yes, she does that solo harp version of 'Hollyrock' ;-)
>Recommendations are welcome. Btw, has any of you heard the following
>album? It's by Zorn, Sharp, Horvitz and Previte. I don't remember the
>title.
'Downtown Lullaby'. Got it a few weeks back and think it's very good
(far superior, IMHO, to the Previte/Zorn duo, though a lot of folk
here liked that much more than I). This one is also, apparently, all
improv but finds itself in a more rockish groove, often verging on
70's Miles territory, but isn't everybody lately?
My one mild complaint, actually, is the rut I find that JZ gets into
when working in rock contexts. He seems to pull out that one squeal at
the drop of a hat. Everyone else, especially Horvitz and Previte, are
fine.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 11:58:37 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
>>Kevin Drumm Kevin Drumm
>What is his music like? I noticed that he'll be playing in Chicago in
>October with Otomo Yoshihide.
I've yet to listen a second time, but the first impression wasn't too
great. It's solo guitar, almost always played in such a manner as to
mask the guitar origins. My problem is that on most of the tracks, the
sounds seem arbitrary, in subtle distinction to random. It's a hard
distinction to qualify, but someone like Bailey strikes me as making
_precisely_ the sound he intended at that split-second. Drumm struck
this listener as mere doodling around. There is one cut (about 9
minutes) that's a sustained drone and which is much more interesting
to me than all the hen-scratching.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:31:39 EDT
From: <JonAbbey2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
well, clearly it's just a matter of taste, but I do feel somewhat obliged to
defend the Kevin Drumm record (we are talking about the one on Perdition
Plastics, right?) as it was on my top 10 list of 1997. I haven't heard this
record in a few months, but what impressed me about it was, in part, the fact
that Drumm had managed to dredge up a whole new set of sounds from a guitar. I
also felt like there was an internal logic to the record, just not as
continuous of one as is common among most free improvisers. in more plain
words, Drumm uses silences a great deal.
all of this boils down to taste, though. I was just trying to give the flip
side and let people know that I do find this record very worthwhile.
in other solo guitar news:
a flood of Loren Mazzacane records have recently been released. I think with
the upcoming Evangeline on Road Cone, that makes four in the last two months.
of the other three, the one I like the most so far is The Bridge.
for Taku Sugimoto fans, I'm listening to Fragments Of Paradise on Creativeman
Disc. I don't think I like either this or his duet record with the
aforementioned Kevin Drumm on Meme as much as I do his record on Hat Noir.
anyone know where I can get Robbie Basho's Guitar Solo on Takoma in NYC?
Jon
>>>
>>Kevin Drumm Kevin Drumm
>What is his music like? I noticed that he'll be playing in Chicago in
>October with Otomo Yoshihide.
I've yet to listen a second time, but the first impression wasn't too
great. It's solo guitar, almost always played in such a manner as to
mask the guitar origins. My problem is that on most of the tracks, the
sounds seem arbitrary, in subtle distinction to random. It's a hard
distinction to qualify, but someone like Bailey strikes me as making
_precisely_ the sound he intended at that split-second. Drumm struck
this listener as mere doodling around. There is one cut (about 9
minutes) that's a sustained drone and which is much more interesting
to me than all the hen-scratching.<<<
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:04:52 GMT
From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T)
Subject: Re: tony conrad's no bomb, but the bomb
>> In responce to the thread that few people are willing to respond negatively
>> to "experimental music," I have two comments. 1)The myth (meaning myth,
>> not "false myth") of _the misuderstood artist who is later revealed to
>> become massively imporant player_, is HUGE (in my circle at least), this
>> makes people reticent to be dismissive of things they didn't imediately
>> grasp. This is good, I think.
>Good, in that it allows some work to develop. Bad, in that it makes it
>possible for some wankers to put on the coat of Misunderstood Innovator
>while all that they are doing is combining cliches badly.
I'm probably way behind the times since I've been trying to work through a dead
email server and am reading digest to boot, but...
Another few relevant myths:
Tibetian: All forms emerge into time from the mouth of the dragon. The closer
you are to the source the more the distorted and the well-formed, order and
chaos, the etc and the etc, are hopelessly mixed together.
Crowley: Thoth, messanger or the Divine, is always accompanied by an Ape. While
Thoth speaks the Ape acts out a parody. Unfortunately we humans can never be
sure which is Thoth and which is the Ape.
It may, in fact, be occasionally impossible to tell the wankers from the
innovators and I suspect there are both wankers and innovators that are
themselves confused<g>.
This, of course, bugs the shit out of us.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:27:23 +0900
From: Allan Sutherland <ayac@sannet.ne.jp>
Subject: Zorn, coleman and Serphadic Tinge.
Hello,
Can anyone help? This summer, I saw John Zorn play with Anthony Coleman
and the Serphadic Tinge at Tonic in New York, July 19, as part of Zorn's
new music series. They were substituting or Myra Melford, who was unwell.
My qustion is, doe anyone know the names of the bassist and the drummer? I
seem to have forgotten, and would like to know.
Thanks for any assistance.
Allan.
I am writing a discography of all of the recorded works of the sublime
pianist McCoy Tyner, as leader and sideman, official and not so official.
Any information that you may think will be even of the slightest help,
please do not hesitate to contact me. Knowledge gained multiple times is
far preferred to that never learned. Any help given will be acknowledged in
the discography, or not if you prefer that.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:51:08 PDT
From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Ignore, unless you live in Hawaii
Sorry for this post, but I'm trying to locate someone who emailed me a
while back about an X-Legged Sally disc he thought I had. I think his
name was Dan, and that he lived in Hawaii. If that's you, please email
me, I have something that might interest you.
DB
Bill Laswell and Lori Carson Discographies at :
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:03:57 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Not only can everyone make music but...
J.T. de Boer wrote:
> Now you're mingling two totally different aspect of music: the
> ability to play and the ability to compose. The art in music for me
> only exists if the idea of a piece is existing in the artists' mind.
> I think it's essential to determine which aspect of music we're
> talking about.
Why do you mean by "the idea of a piece"? Where does this reside in the
case of collaborative free improvisation?
- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:05:13 -0400
From: Brad Syna <dncac@mindspring.com>
Subject: new Greg Cohen release???
>
>currently enjoying Dave Douglas and Greg Cohens' excellent latest discs
>
>;^ ) Bob
>
Can someone enlighten me about the new Greg Cohen!! What label, whose on
it??? Etc??
Thanks,
Brad
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:35:37 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: new Greg Cohen release???
Has Cohen's performances in Woody Allen's documentary been discussed to
death here?
Keith
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:36:52 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
> for Taku Sugimoto fans, I'm listening to Fragments Of Paradise on Creativeman
> Disc. I don't think I like either this or his duet record with the
> aforementioned Kevin Drumm on Meme as much as I do his record on Hat Noir.
Having not yet heard the others mentioned, I second this recommendation of the hat
Noir release. It's a thing of beauty, the interstice (an old Fripp term) of Derek
Bailey and a Zen rock garden. One of my favorite records this year (but note that
I've bought much less than usual this year as well so take heed...).
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:48:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
Kevin Drumm's solo disc (released by
Thymme Jones' excellent Perdition Plastics
label) was billed as similar style and
approach to Keith Rowe (AMM) for prepared
guitar playing. Drumm apparently plays live
often with all the usual Chicago suspects,
including Illusion of Safety and
of course Jim O'Rourke and finally had
a chance to do something of his own. from
all accounts i've heard, he's an impressive
guitar player to watch live. i've listened
to the disc a handful of times and still can't
quite grasp it. because the recording is
so very quiet (shades of RLW?), i wonder
if something is lost on most stereos?
i had to really listen carefully on
headphones to hear much of anything.
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:31:13 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl>
Subject: Re: Not only can everyone make music but...
> >The art in music for me
> > only exists if the idea of a piece is existing in the artists' mind.
> >
>
> Why do you mean by "the idea of a piece"? Where does this reside in the
> case of collaborative free improvisation?
By the idea of a piece I mean a sort of system an artist might be
using when playing or composing. I'm aware of the fact that I'm
reasoning abstractly here, but I think such a system really exists in
a true ARTists mind. This system, I think, is used also when
improvizing. An aspect which shouldn't be underestimated in the case
of improvizing is the fact that a particular artists uses partly
musical forms that he/she is familiar with, a kind of personal
statement or maybe the easiest way. An appropriate example of the
latter argument was given by Brian Olewnick when he wrote yesterday:
> My one mild complaint, actually, is the rut I find that JZ gets into
> when working in rock contexts. He seems to pull out that one
> squeal at the drop of a hat.
Of course this says nothing about his musicality, but more of the
fact that even the best musicians take it easy now and then:)
Jeroen
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:51:30 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl>
Subject: Percy Grainger?
I recently bought 'Perks' by Jon Rose, an interactive badminton-game
based on the music and writings of Australian composer/pianist Percy
Grainger. Has anyone ever heard his music? The linernotes mentioned
he is one of those unrecognized very talented 20th-century composers.
Btw, anyone who hasn't heard Rose yet should definitely do it. His
music is absolutely fantastic. Some recommended albums IMO are
'Violin Music for Resaurants' (Derek Bailey, E. Chadbourne, Barre Phillips, Alvin
Curran, etc.) and '/shoppinglive@victo' (Lauren Newton,
Joelle Leandre, Otomo Yoshihide & Chris Cutler).
Jeroen
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:07:12 +0200
From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be>
Subject: who can help me find those Bill Laswell albums please
Dear Zornies,
I am looking for the following albums by Bill Laswell, but I can't find
them. Does anyone know where I can order them with a credit card
(through a website or by phone/fax). Thank you very much....
(1)Various Artists : Sample Material. It's on a Belgian Label called
Sounds Good. Funny though, I live in Belgium (yes indeed, the country of
Yves Dewulf.... *hi Yves, that buckethead bootleg is on it's way* and
me) but I never heard of this belgian label
(2)Swans : This burning world (on the uni label)
So, if anyone knows where to get these album or has any contact
addresses of these labels. Please let me know....
ps. Jeff Spirer, perhaps you can help me???
- --
Stefan Verstraeten
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 09:07:18 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Kevin Drumm was Re[2]: Brian's recent goodies
>Kevin Drumm's solo disc (released by Thymme
>Jones' excellent Perdition Plastics label)
>was billed as similar style and approach to
>Keith Rowe (AMM) for prepared guitar
>playing.
I can see the comparison, in that Drumm (on
the basis of this recording, at least)
concentrates largely on very "un-guitarlike"
sounds and utilizes silence and quiet a great
deal. Now, my exposure to Rowe is still
limited (to late AMM), but the outcome of his
playing results, to me, in the carving out of
a very expansive and breathing space whereas
Drumm's work struck me as more claustrophobic
(not that the former is objectively superior
to the latter, but I tend to find it so). But
that was as of just one listen and, as you
mention below, it might benefit from
headphones or higher volume.
Jon and Steve mentioned Taku Sugimoto's disc
on hat Noir. While similar in many respects,
Sugimoto's work, IMHO, has a (for lack of a
better word) limpidity that I find much more
attractive. Amazing how narrowly one can
split a hair, eh?
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:20:00 -0400
From: Caleb Deupree <cdeupree@interagp.com>
Subject: Re: Percy Grainger?
>>>>> "Jeroen" == J T de Boer <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> writes:
Jeroen> I recently bought 'Perks' by Jon Rose, an interactive
Jeroen> badminton-game based on the music and writings of
Jeroen> Australian composer/pianist Percy Grainger. Has anyone
Jeroen> ever heard his music? The linernotes mentioned he is one
Jeroen> of those unrecognized very talented 20th-century
Jeroen> composers.
Grainger has two different kinds of works, piano pieces that are
largely folk song based (the piece Country Gardens is reasonably well
known, and was spoofed by an Allan Sherman comedy hit in the 1960s),
similar perhaps to some of Ralph Vaughn Williams' work. This music is
represented at least to some extent in recordings. But he also
supposedly made some extremely experimental music, homemade
instruments, unusual tuning systems, etc., which AFAIK is not
represented in any recording. I believe he was gay in a time and
place which did not appreciate it, which contributed to his
obscurity.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions... funny thing about opinions, they can change.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #449
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