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Zorn List Digest        Sunday, August 2 1998        Volume 02 : Number 429



In this issue:
-
       ribot/hooker/dj spooky
       Tzadik Site
       Re: Tzadik Site
       wow, nice traders are out there!
       Ivo Perelman aritcle, Under Appreciated Moments in Jazz
       Filmworks
       Recent Goodies
       AMM (was: Recent Goodies)
       Carpenter's Dark Star
       Re: Filmworks
       Desert In Hand by Shakushain
       Re: AMM (was: Recent Goodies)
       Re: AMM (was: Recent Goodies)
       More AMM
       Re: Dark Star
       Re: More AMM

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:22:40 PDT
From: "Robert van Heumen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ribot/hooker/dj spooky

hi there

anyone going to the ribot/hooker/dj spooky concert in the knitting
factory tonight, and wants to have some company?

aju
robert

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:15:32 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Tzadik Site

Anyone know what's up with the Tzadik site?  It hasn't been updated since like,
late May.
Are they going to keep up with that?

Does anyone know what's new out there from them?
What's coming?

Thanks,
Peter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:27:03 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik Site

On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:15:32 UT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> Anyone know what's up with the Tzadik site?  It hasn't been updated since like,
> late May.
> Are they going to keep up with that?
>
> Does anyone know what's new out there from them?
> What's coming?

Looks like a typical KF behavior: on January 1st everybody decides to get their acts
together and stop messing around, then, after a few weeks/months, things are stopped
without any notice or explanation.

Is it that can't keep any solid staff, and rely too much on kids with short
attention span (or kids than they quickly delude)?

Michael Dorf should know by now that getting a larger space is one thing, but being
able to build and keep a good staff is another. I am seriously wondering if he has
the slightest managerial skill...

    Patrice (appaled by the "news" section on the KF web site).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:04:15 CEST
From: "Ma Meeshka Mow" <[e-mail]>
Subject: wow, nice traders are out there!

Attention tape traders:

Don't trade with this fucking guy

"Paul Stinson" <[e-mail]>
Henry Garfield  [e-mail]

He also has contacted another trader under another names
In all cases he uses this addresses

31 Sanford st.
St. Augustine,FL 32084

He ripped me off 5 CDRs!

Does anybody live close to his home?
Go and burn his house (he told me he is a victim of the
burnings in Florida)!


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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:25:07 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ivo Perelman aritcle, Under Appreciated Moments in Jazz

Greetings,

In the August edition of Perfect Sound Forever
<http://www.furious.com/perfect>, you'll find among other things:

IVO PERELMAN
Jews Too Get The Blues- Traditional Jewish Songs

http://www.furious.com/perfect/ivoperelman.html

UNDERAPPRECIATED MOMENTS IN JAZZ
with Trane, Marsalis, Mingus and more

http://www.furious.com/perfect/jazzmoments.html

We're always looking for good material so let us know if you have any
writing or ideas for upcoming issues.

See you online,
Jason

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:35:54 +0200
From: "Felix" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Filmworks

I just got my first Filmwork, the very first tome and I love it! It's really
good to hear a fresh zorn again, after spending so much time with his more
experimental/improv/ambient stuff. Does the quality increase cronologically
or is it random? Which would be the best one to buy next?

Thanks
Felix
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 19:52:55 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent Goodies

Some items, new and old, that have made their way into my house this
past week:

John French        O Solo Drumbo        Avant

Strange record; probably the first solo drum record I can remember that
comes so much from a rockish perspective. Some of the pieces sound like
simply the drum tracks to CB songs (which apparently they are), others
are elaborated on a bit, often very imaginatively, but we're in a
different musical universe from Milford Graves or Jerome Cooper. French
still has a low, thick tone (sounds like he's playing with legs of
lamb), but sometimes seems to start off on a nice riff only to lose
track halfway through the piece. Still, not bad. Strange liners, where
French alternates between self-deprecation and childishness.

Hasidic New Wave    Jews and the Abstract Truth    KFW

More rousing wedding music, etc from Frank London and crew. Nothing
groundbreaking, but no complaints either--good stuff in the same vein as
"The Schvitz".

AMM        The Inexhaustible Document    Matchless

Continuing on in my belated appreciation of this group. Great music,
different from anyone else's, but I imagine most z-listers with interest
in AMM have had this for some time. I've got this and 'Newfoundland';
any recs on which one to pick up next?

Liu Sola        Haunts            Also

Pretty nice album from this Chinese vocalist/pianist (w/ Fernando
Saunders, Amina Claudine Myers, Pheroan Ak Laff and Chieli Minucci).
Stylistically about halfway between her 'Blues from the East' and her
duo with Wu Man on Avant, this contains some very enjoyable, hypnotic
pieces and restrained, sensitive vocal work. BTW, list price is
apparently $10 for some reason.

La Banda        La Banda        Enja

Hmmm...I was _really_ looking forward to this 2CD set, and now I'm not
so sure. La Banda is a version of a type of village wind ensemble
popular (for about 200 years) in much of Italy. This group is 36 pieces
(33 winds--including about a dozen clarinets!--) and 3 percussion,
joined, for the second disc, by Willem Breuker, Pino Minafra, Gianluigi
Trovesi and several others. The first disc consists of standard banda
repertoire, which is to say instrumental versions of opera warhorses
with fluegelhorns taking the vocal parts. If you listen to this one way,
you have simply an equivalent to your generic Pops concert. I find it
more profitable to think of it as some field recording done in a remote
Italian village, with the local band playing "exotic" ethnic standards,
but, admittedly, that's kinda hard. The second disc has new pieces by
Breuker, tubaist Michel Godard and, the highlight, Bruno Tommaso's neat
arrangement of a bunch of Nino Rota tunes. Both Godard's and Breuker's
works struck me as so-so; some nice moments breaking up some ponderous
ones. Good idea, one that I'd like to see developed, but this first
venture is only partially successful.

Items I saw but didn't pick up:

Cecil Taylor        The Tree of Life (?)        FMP
  "     "          (cd release of the Nuits de la
            Fondation Maeght)
Eberhard Blum        Japanese Flute Music        Hat [now]

Anyone?

Also, caught Joey Baron (w/ Eskelin and Roseman) at Tonic. Wonderful
set! Baron amazes me more and more each time I hear him. I'm beginning
to (cautiously!) place him in the line from Roach to Blackwell to McCall
as far as pure musicality and inventivenes goes (not to mention
percussive excitement and joy).

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:19:10 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: AMM (was: Recent Goodies)

In a message dated 8/1/98 7:57:12 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<AMM        The Inexhaustible Document    Matchless

Continuing on in my belated appreciation of this group. Great music,
different from anyone else's, but I imagine most z-listers with interest
in AMM have had this for some time. I've got this and 'Newfoundland';
any recs on which one to pick up next? >>

I'd say The Nameless Uncarved Block or LIve In Allentown, both of which are
also later recordings, in their somewhat more mellow mode. AMMusic 1966 and
The Crypt, along with the first disc of Laminal, are their only recordings
thus far released from the sixties and tend more toward a louder, sometimes
noise-based, "rock" mode. Combine and Laminates and Generative Themes are also
superb.

All that being said, you really can't go too wrong with any of those seven I
just mentioned (or the two Brian already has). The only ones I don't think are
essential are the recent one on PSF, the ECM one (just Rowe and Prevost; nice
record, but not really an AMM record), To Hear And Back Again (which is just
Lou Gare and Prevost and is the most jazz-influenced of their records), and
the last disc of Laminal (a 1994 concert from Context, the only time (!)
they've played New York to date. I was at this show and wasn't that impressed
then either.) The first two discs of Laminal are eye-opening, though, and it's
a good way to see how they've involved. I haven't heard the most recent one,
Before Driving To The Chapel..., quite enough to know where it fits in.

Every record you hear of AMM helps you to understand the ones you've heard
before. I think of it as one long thirty year improvisation that we are
afforded occasional glimpses into through records.

If I was pressed to name my favorite band in the world now, I think it would
be AMM.

Jon


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 03:21:41 +0200
From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Carpenter's Dark Star

 Hi all,

 here's one for you experts:

 In John Carpenter's "Dark Star", there's a track the astronauts are listening
 (well, sort of) to called "When Twilight Falls On NGC 891", by some Martin
 Segundo (?). While I think these names are wrong, the track (sounds somewhat
 jazzy) doesn't sound like it was made by Carpenter. Can anybody fill me in?

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 03:33:15 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Filmworks

At 10:35 PM 8/1/98 +0200, Felix wrote:
>I just got my first Filmwork, the very first tome and I love it! It's really
>good to hear a fresh zorn again, after spending so much time with his more
>experimental/improv/ambient stuff. Does the quality increase cronologically
>or is it random? Which would be the best one to buy next?

I've got one, two, four and seven.  Two is all for one film, so it has a
consistency that the others don't, all small combo stuff like much of one.
Seven is the classic Cynical Hysterie Hour, music for Japanese cartoons.
Excellent, but very short.  Four contains five very different pieces of
music from five different films, and includes a great ambient blues piece
and a wild sampler piece, among others.  I like them all, and based on
these four find the filmworks series one of JZ's most consistently
imaginative collections.

Eight, the newest, is another of the Masada variations, and is reputed to
be excellent as well.

The Tzadik web site contains personnel and more detailed track information
for all of the above.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:56:59 +0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Desert In Hand by Shakushain

Hello Zorn-list,

I found "Desert In Hand" by Shakushain on Music Boulevard web-site.
They said that it is Knitting Factory CD. But there is no any
information on KFW site. Does anybody knows anything about this CD?

Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.jazz.ru/



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 09:03:18 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AMM (was: Recent Goodies)

[e-mail] wrote:
> Every record you hear of AMM helps you to understand the ones you've heard
> before. I think of it as one long thirty year improvisation that we are
> afforded occasional glimpses into through records.
>
> If I was pressed to name my favorite band in the world now, I think it would
> be AMM.

Thanks for the recommendations and insight, Jon. Perhaps you or someone
else could shed some light on something I've been wondering about re:
AMM. One of my first impressions was the "landscape" quality of their
sound, unique in that they seem to have actualized what many just talk
about: paying equal (and extreme) attention to each sound and giving
each sound equal (and extreme!) importance. I visualize ultra-high
resolution photographs of scenes without obvious central focus (I
hesitantly proffer Ansel Adams, without the picturesqueness). This is a
similar sense I've gotten over the years from Morton Feldman, though
MF's sound is certainly more ethereal and AMM's grainier, for me, they
inhabit a related sound-space. So my question: I know Tilbury is a big
proponent of Feldman, having written on him and recorded his work. Was
AMM's work changed significantly, possibly towards a "smoother"
(relative term, here), more tonal (in a Feldmanesque manner) aspect when
Tilbury joined the group? Have the original members acknowledged
indebtedness to MF and the NY School? I could be totally off base, but
AMM (in my limited exposure) seems a direct descendant of this approach,
though obviously on an improvisatory tack.

I could, of course, simply go out and buy the discs and hear for myself,
but I have to give the old wallet a breather once in a while.

Thanks,

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:17:12 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AMM (was: Recent Goodies)

In a message dated 8/2/98 9:06:15 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<So my question: I know Tilbury is a big
proponent of Feldman, having written on him and recorded his work. Was
AMM's work changed significantly, possibly towards a "smoother"
(relative term, here), more tonal (in a Feldmanesque manner) aspect when
Tilbury joined the group? Have the original members acknowledged
indebtedness to MF and the NY School? I could be totally off base, but
AMM (in my limited exposure) seems a direct descendant of this approach,
though obviously on an improvisatory tack. >>

Good question. I know that Christian Wolff was a member of AMM in 1968,
although his presence was not captured on record. Prevost says in his book No
Sound Is Innocent, "Evan Parker and Christian Wolff are the two musicians
outside of the immediate circle of AMM with whom an indefinable rapport is
felt-and a confidence that the AMM aesthetic would be pursued and respected."
That aside, I would say that the answer to your question is that Tilbury is
obviously quite influenced by MF and the NY School, and thus, any AMM records
that he's on tend to move more in that direction, including the two that you
have. Keith Rowe and Eddie Prevost are the heart of the band, however, and I'd
say pinning down their influences is a lot tougher. Rowe was a member of Mike
Westbrook's band in the mid-sixties and Prevost played in a hard-bop quintet,
but it seems to me like there are very few remnants of these formative
influences evident on record. If you check out The Crypt, you won't hear much
Feldman there, closer to a proto-Sonic Youth or Merzbow at times.

Hope that helps,
Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:34:48 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: More AMM

poking around a little more in Prevost's book, I find:

"In 1965 not only were Cage's ideas unknown to AMM, but most of the musicians
had only the vaguest idea who he was! In an interview I was asked about Cage's
influence, and simply assumed he was a drummer I hadn't heard of. Awareness
arrived with Cardew." (Cornelius Cardew was a member of AMM for a while early
on also.)

also, something I found enlightening.

"AMM, especially in Rowe's contribution, is indebted to Jackson Pollock. Even
the scene of execution is similar, with Rowe adjusting the basic canvas (in
his case laying the guitar flat on its back) to enable certain 'actions' to be
carried out, to let dribbles of sound meander, collect in drowning pools of
volume or run off the edges into congealed silences. This manner of working-
seen/heard in Tilbury's exploitation of the piano stool or in letting bottles
slowly oscillate, vibrated by, and in turn vibrating, the piano strings; or in
Lawrence Sheaff's use of toys and humming tops; or in my own 'dish gong' and
cymbal quasi-Doppler effects, the scratching, scraping and bowings and the
over-spped drumming, designed to fall, through an impossible momentum, into
chaotic unknowable sequences.-became common practice applied by all
AMMmusicians individually."

anyway, there's more in the book about their influences, including Taoism, but
if you're that interested, you should probably pick up a copy. Other Music
probably still stocks it. it's hard going, but very worthwhile.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Aug 98 11:22:59 PDT
From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dark Star

Sorry, can't remember which list it was on where someone asked about
this... so forgive the intrusion if it wasn't here, but:
Martin Segundo was a psuedonym for John Carpenter. It's a reference to
something, but I can't remember what. It means something along the lines of
"Martin 2" (it's literal translation, I think)- but what "Martin 1" was I
can't for the life of me think of just now...

    - Seth

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 19:46:49 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More AMM

[e-mail] wrote:

> Awareness arrived with Cardew." (Cornelius Cardew was a member of AMM for     > a while early on also.)

Actually, something else I saw at Other Music on vinyl that I almost
picked up, was Cardew's record on Matchless called something
approximating "For Trautmann" (I know that's not it, but it's not
ridiculously off!). Apparently music at least somewhat based on themes
from Irish worker's songs? Know of it?

> "AMM, especially in Rowe's contribution, is indebted to Jackson Pollock. Even
> the scene of execution is similar, with Rowe adjusting the basic canvas (in
> his case laying the guitar flat on its back) to enable certain 'actions' to be
> carried out, to let dribbles of sound meander, collect in drowning pools of
> volume or run off the edges into congealed silences.

Grrrr...A longstanding pet peeve of mine is the comparison of this or
that new music to Pollack specifically or, often, Abstract Expressionism
generally. I know it's tough to gainsay Prevost here, or Feldman vis a
vis Philip Guston, but I can't help but think that these connections are
often leaped at by musicians who feel a need to equate their "new" form
to whatever happens to be "new" in an adjacent field, no matter how,
IMHO, misaligned they are. Now I happen to hold the (probable minority)
opinion that Pollack was a piss-poor painter (ahhh, let's say Borah
Bergman to de Kooning's Cecil Taylor), and I think Prevost's comparison
above (flat canvas to flat guitar) is trivial but, in any case, there
are plenty of other recent painters whose work, again IMHO, resonates
far more sympathetically with AMM's creations than Pollack's (the sand
paintings of Antonio Tapies spring instantly to mind; Klein, Reinhart
and Stella also seem more to the point; don't even get me started on
someone like Vermeer! As to Feldman, Agnes Martin seems far more in sync
with him than Guston, but maybe that's just me). I think Pollack's name
often serves as a catch-all for people to cite when they don't really
know the field; this makes for facile comparisons that do neither
art-form justice.

Forgive the rant; it's just not too often I get to spout off about
painting on this list....gotta take advantage of those rare
opportunities!

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #429
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