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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #430 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, August 3 1998 Volume 02 : Number 430 In this issue: - Re: More AMM Re: More AMM more AMM and other recent stuff E#, S. Cain, P. Jones gig Tipographica question motian plays weil... e# and uitti Re: Tipographica question Re: Mori/Ribot/Coleman/Lindsay/Kang + Oval Re: Mori/Ribot/Coleman/Lindsay/Kang + Oval Re: e# and uitti Re: Seattle based people - HELP others delete this message Archery 2XLP for sale Option Magazine Re: Option Magazine AMM Re: More AMM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:45:48 -0400 (EDT) From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese) Subject: Re: More AMM ), and I think Prevost's comparison >above (flat canvas to flat guitar) is trivial but, in any case, there >are plenty of other recent painters whose work, again IMHO, resonates >far more sympathetically with AMM's creations than Pollack's (the sand >paintings of Antonio Tapies spring instantly to mind; Klein, Reinhart >and Stella also seem more to the point You definately hear something different in AMM or see something different in Reinhart or Stella (I know little of the others) than me. Pollack seems an appropriate, if obvious and not optimal, choice to compare the more "slash and burn" aestetics of early AMM with. DeKooning's maintenance of images doesn't fit AMM's absolute lack of melody/harmony; perhaps Ayler=DeKooning, AMM=Pollack. Although his later, more abstract work could be compared to 80s/90s AMM. As for Reinhart, I would really hate to believe that AMM are playing for the same reason he painted: to create art objects with no purpose other than pure art objects (at least that's my understanding of his philosospy). The simple reliance on imporvisation invalidates this connection, and allies them with more "gestural" schools of thought. Also I hear an attempt at communication and expression in AMM: an invitation despite obvious initial alien nature of the sound. I get no feeling like that from Stella or Reinhart, and from Reinhart writing, at least, I don't get the impression I'm missing anything. Having said all that, though, if you have just heard the 90s material I can see where a minimalist (art not music) connection might come from. In any case, wouldn't the incorporation of the transistor radios link AMM to Jasper Johns or Robert Rauchenburg? These are the two I've certainly associated them with, esspessially because of the Cage connection with Rauchenburg Sorry if my ad hoc art history knowledge is entirely specious, as well as for the certain misspellings of the names matt ; don't even get me started on >someone like Vermeer! As to Feldman, Agnes Martin seems far more in sync >with him than Guston, but maybe that's just me). I think Pollack's name >often serves as a catch-all for people to cite when they don't really >know the field; this makes for facile comparisons that do neither >art-form justice. > >Forgive the rant; it's just not too often I get to spout off about >painting on this list....gotta take advantage of those rare >opportunities! > >Brian Olewnick > >- - ------ "Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it kept them apart, spatially." - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:58:32 EDT From: <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: More AMM In a message dated 8/2/98 7:49:43 PM, you wrote: <<Grrrr...A longstanding pet peeve of mine is the comparison of this or that new music to Pollack specifically or, often, Abstract Expressionism generally.>> Brian, I certainly don't know as much about painters as you, and it seems like neither does Prevost. But your question was what influenced him (and AMM), and he says Pollock, among other people. Understand that Prevost is referring to initial influences here; I think that AMM has tried to consciously steer clear of outside influences as much as possible since their inception. I understand that you're venting a bit here, but it seems somewhat misplaced. Now if it was a critic comparing AMM to Pollock, that's entirely different. I'm psyched to go check out some de Kooning, though. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:44:37 -0400 (EDT) From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: more AMM and other recent stuff On the topic of AMM, I just got _Live in Allentown_, my first, and was actually playing it on the air at the radio station when I checked my messages and saw all of the discuusion, strange coincidence. Anyway this CD has lots of quiet spots and the wide dynamic range (and length) make it hard to listen to, really a headphones CD, but it lives up to all the praise I had heard. I was surprised to hear the tonal and almost pretty piano parts. Does anyone know if they start completely from a blank page when playing, because the intro avoids the usual quiet pecking and testing out I find annoying in so many improv performances. Also, I finally got around to getting Hans Reichel _Death of the Rare Bird Ymir_ which is also very interesting, like alien folk guitar. More stuff: Tim Berne + Michael Formanek _Ornery People_ This doesn't have the energy of the Bloodcount CDs but after getting used to that I liked it a lot. Their approach to melody/harmony is unique, it amazes me how they can play such complex stuff and have it come across on such a direct level. Microscopic Septet -Offbeat Glory_ and Philip Johnston _Normalology_ I don't usually like stuff this happy but they write some great tunes and its really fun to listen to (Zorn played in the Micros in 1983 but didn't record with them) Enough for now I guess, William York - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:53:47 EDT From: <IOUaLive1@aol.com> Subject: E#, S. Cain, P. Jones gig Hello, Did anyone catch the recent gig at Irving Plaza with Elliott Sharp, Sim Cain and Percy Jones?? If so, please tell me about it. And I know its a long shot, but if anyone has, or can get a recording of that gig, please email me!! I'm sure I have something to offer in trade. Thanks/ Jody McAllister - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:27:20 +0200 From: Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl Subject: Tipographica question Hello, I've heard somewhere about CD: Tipographica+friends: "Jazz - Bacharach" Does it really exist? Does anybody own any of that? There is nothing about it on Tipographica web site. http://www.imasy.or.jp/~mizutani/files_e/tipo.html Thanks for any info. Marcin - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 10:35:41 -0400 From: Bob Kowalski <BKOWALSKI@genetics.com> Subject: motian plays weil... For the patient zornster looking for info on Motian's take on Weil, a belated reply : Tethered Moon (Verve jMT, 697 124 059-2, 1994) Paul Motian, Masabum Kikuchi and Gary Peacock play Kut Weil. Its worth seeking out...enjoy. happy listening Bob - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:44:20 -0400 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: e# and uitti The latest Anomalous Records update contains a free improv between Elliot Sharp and Frances-Marie Uitti (the cellist who uses two bows -- she has a fabulous and eerie album on BVHaast). Has anyone either heard this, or heard these two live? I'm sort of interested, but am having a hard time picturing what this would sound like. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions... funny thing about opinions, they can change. Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 23:19:25 +0800 From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@ficnet.net> Subject: Re: Tipographica question - --------------A1F83ACEF2F33C1936BE4B49 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hello, > I've heard somewhere about CD: > Tipographica+friends: "Jazz - Bacharach" > > Does it really exist? Does anybody own any of that? > There is nothing about it on Tipographica web site. > > http://www.imasy.or.jp/~mizutani/files_e/tipo.html > > Thanks for any info. > Marcin > Yes, I have one copy of this CD. In fact, it's titled Alfie-Jazz Bacharach. Not a Tipographica album. The music is played by a quartet with three members of Tipographica(Tsuneo Imahori,Hiroaki Mizutani and Akira Sotoyama) and a piano player(Satoru Shionoya). They play famous Bacharach tunes. Released in late '96 by Pony Canyon Records. Item no. PCCR-00250. Jan-Wen Lu P.S. Does any have the new CD of Hiroaki Mizutani's new project "LowBlow"? Any commendation on it? - --------------A1F83ACEF2F33C1936BE4B49 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Hello, I've heard somewhere about CD: Tipographica+friends: "Jazz - Bacharach" Does it really exist? Does anybody own any of that? There is nothing about it on Tipographica web site. <A HREF="http://www.imasy.or.jp/~mizutani/files_e/tipo.html">http://www.imasy.or.jp/~mizutani/files_e/tipo.html</A> Thanks for any info. Marcin </BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, I have one copy of this CD. In fact, it's titled Alfie-Jazz Bacharach. Not a Tipographica album. The music is played by a quartet with three members of Tipographica(Tsuneo Imahori,Hiroaki Mizutani and Akira Sotoyama) and a piano player(Satoru Shionoya). They play famous Bacharach tunes. Released in late '96 by Pony Canyon Records. Item no. PCCR-00250. Jan-Wen Lu P.S. Does any have the new CD of Hiroaki Mizutani's new project "LowBlow"? Any commendation on it? </HTML> - --------------A1F83ACEF2F33C1936BE4B49-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:47:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Mori/Ribot/Coleman/Lindsay/Kang + Oval On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Felix wrote: > One question though: I have the opportunity to see Ikue Mori, Marc Ribot, > Anthony Coleman, Arto Lindsay, some person named Kang and something named > Oval all together. Questions: Who is Kang and Oval? Has anyone ever heard > this set? If so, how good is it? oval is a german guy named markus popp. oval creates music by painting on/damaging cds, then sampling the resulting clicks and skips. popp then arranges the sampled sounds into song structures. very mesmerizing if you're acclimated to sparse, damaged electronic sounds. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:11:12 +0200 From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Mori/Ribot/Coleman/Lindsay/Kang + Oval >oval is a german guy named markus popp. oval creates music by painting >on/damaging cds, then sampling the resulting clicks and skips. popp then >arranges the sampled sounds into song structures. very mesmerizing if >you're acclimated to sparse, damaged electronic sounds. I believe Oval used to be a duo, but now only Popp remains. He also designed some interactive software to compose with/modify these samples in real-time. I saw concert by Oval about half a year ago and the performance consisted of Popp sitting behind his laptop, quietly moving his mouse to adjust some parameters (for over an hour). The music was very ambient (not especially dark or extreme experimental), not unlike some Eno-stuff (who's also dealing with music generating software nowadays.) YVes - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:54:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: e# and uitti The new (August) The Wire gives the disk a bad review. Take that for what you wish. And/or check it out to see what the reviewer says. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Caleb Deupree wrote: > The latest Anomalous Records update contains a free improv between > Elliot Sharp and Frances-Marie Uitti (the cellist who uses two bows -- > she has a fabulous and eerie album on BVHaast). Has anyone either > heard this, or heard these two live? I'm sort of interested, but am > having a hard time picturing what this would sound like. > > --- > Caleb T. Deupree > ;; Opinions... funny thing about opinions, they can change. > > Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. > (Pablo Picasso) > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:02:07 -0500 From: Joe Germuska <j-germuska@nwu.edu> Subject: Re: Seattle based people - HELP others delete this message Everyone interested in the Pacific Northwest improv scene should check out the hard-working suckers at the tentacle: >Visit the Tentacle Web site at http://www.tentacle.org for up-to-the-minute >news and concert listings and comprehensive directories of Northwest labels, >music sources, radio programs, and links to Northwest creative musicians' >home pages. And if you want a more interactive forum, check out the pnw-improv list <http://www.wnur.org/lists/pnw-improv/> Joe - -- * Joe Germuska {j-germuska@nwu.edu} | Learning Technologies Group <http://www.nwu.edu/people/j-germuska> | Northwestern University "It would be equally incorrect to assume that 'magic', however defined, is not a kind of technology." - George Lewis (composer/trombonist) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:35:46 EDT From: <Kaltherzig@aol.com> Subject: Archery 2XLP for sale Hello, I hope no one minds that I am posting this here... I want to sell my copy of the Archery 2XLP set. If you are seriously intersted, please e-mail me privately. Anyone reading this knows that this is a rare piece so please send serious offers only. Thanks much. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 19:19:58 -0400 From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Option Magazine Since this ties into an earlier thread: I've just received word that Option Magazine is temporarily suspending publication. The issue that's been on stands for a month is the last one; the Sept issue was cancelled. According to the notification, the main reason for the suspension is to figure out where Option should be going, how much should be print or online, how the spinoff magazines should work, etc. The publisher seemed quite confident that it would start up later but you never know with these things. Still, if you ever felt like suggesting things that need to be covered or done differently, now would be the best time. LT - ------------------------------------------------------ Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at the Funhouse website: Alternate 100 American Films, Anthology of American Folk Music, Godzilla Bites! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 16:23:32 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Option Magazine On Mon, 03 Aug 1998 19:19:58 -0400 Lang Thompson wrote: > > Since this ties into an earlier thread: I've just received word that > Option Magazine is temporarily suspending publication. The issue that's > been on stands for a month is the last one; the Sept issue was cancelled. > According to the notification, the main reason for the suspension is to > figure out where Option should be going, how much should be print or > online, how the spinoff magazines should work, etc. The publisher seemed > quite confident that it would start up later but you never know with these ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I got the impression that he was saying that just to be sure that the creditors would not feel liberated from their obligation of paying their bills :-). If you take this into account, I think the magazine of over... > things. Still, if you ever felt like suggesting things that need to be > covered or done differently, now would be the best time. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:28:18 -0400 From: suebob@mindspring.com (bob burnett) Subject: AMM I've been following the discussion about AMM and am interested in finding out about the group. Somehow my net has completely missed them. Any background or cd suggestions appreciated. Thanks Bob suebob@mindspring.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:41:32 -0800 From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: More AMM As usual, probably late 'cause I'm on digest, but Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> wrote: >Grrrr...A longstanding pet peeve of mine is the comparison of this or >that new music to Pollack specifically or, often, Abstract Expressionism >generally. I know it's tough to gainsay Prevost here, or Feldman vis a >vis Philip Guston, but I can't help but think that these connections are >often leaped at by musicians who feel a need to equate their "new" form >to whatever happens to be "new" in an adjacent field, no matter how, >IMHO, misaligned they are. Now I happen to hold the (probable minority) >opinion that Pollack was a piss-poor painter (ahhh, let's say Borah >Bergman to de Kooning's Cecil Taylor), and I think Prevost's comparison >above (flat canvas to flat guitar) is trivial but, in any case, there >are plenty of other recent painters whose work, again IMHO, resonates >far more sympathetically with AMM's creations than Pollack's (the sand >paintings of Antonio Tapies spring instantly to mind; Klein, Reinhart >and Stella also seem more to the point; don't even get me started on >someone like Vermeer! As to Feldman, Agnes Martin seems far more in sync >with him than Guston, but maybe that's just me). I think Pollack's name >often serves as a catch-all for people to cite when they don't really >know the field; this makes for facile comparisons that do neither >art-form justice. Yeah, it's common for analogies between artistic media to be somewhat over the top and/or wrong-headed & yeah, Pollack serves more often as poster boy for AbExp than he might should ought to. I think though, from reading Feldman's various collected writings that he was more generally interested in his work's similarities to visual art in general, that the enlarged time frame he used was to be analogous to how one experiences a work of visual art when viewing it over time. The dedication to Guston, was more due to the friendship between the two men than any specific parallels between the works as such. Getting back to the ostensible subject line of the thread, in addition to the forementioned Christian Wolff connection to AMM, Cornelius Cardew had lots of experience working & performing with several folks from the "NY School" (Cage, Tudor, etc), in his pre-Maoist phase. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #430 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com