> are plenty of othger sites to use. Leave us alone, we're discussing
> music.
>
> gorge rising
>
> Ken Waxman
Come on! It's just the game next saturday. OK, it's not about music,
but don't you think it's just nice to see people correspond this way
in a very friendly manner? Why immediately turn to a specialized
mailinglist. It was just a spontaneous action, and I think that
Hugo, as for me, feel sorry if we have offended you with our
discussion. As for the American standpoint on the tournament: I was
just curious how you feel about this, because all we hear about
American soccer in Holland is that you've planned to be
World-champion in 2002. This is the only mailinglist. If you
don't like it we'll quit, and I think we would have stopped this
discussion anyway when the game is played.
Jeroen de Boer
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 07:51:48 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Breuker
Dan Given wrote:
> Brian has been at this a bit longer than me, so trust him.
Hold on, let me drag these creaking bones out here....;-)
>However, I will say I am partial to Bob's Gallery, maybe because it was >the first Breuker I bought.
I must say, this release shows up often on people's recs for prime
Breuker (maybe it was the first to get semi-decent distribution in North
America). I find it a bit stilted, but others may not.
>Of the others above, De Ondersteen is more interesting than good,
>as it is a compilation of various Breuker obscurities. Some of it is >great, some not. Not what I would consider a first purchase. The one >on About Time is great, and still available on vinyl from Cadence.
Hasn't About Time released (or planned to release) the three Threadgill
Sextett things? If so, perhaps a re-release of Breuker is in the offing.
That label has perhaps the highest career batting average in history, by
the way, what with these great issues plus Jerome Cooper, etc.
> Question for Brian: Is European Scene the same as Live at >Donauschingen that came out on MPS CD a couple of years ago? Same era, >so I just wondered. If not, I'll probably have to hunt down a vinyl >copy of that one too. The MPS is very good.
Yep, it's the same. I was using the original LP title. The first side is
the same set they played when I first saw them, at Environ in 1977
(*creak*). I hadn't heard Breuker at all at the time, and only
associated his name with the Euro free improv scene so went expecting
some typical "insect music"; took about a half-hour to pry my jaw from
the floor!
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:11:22 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl>
Subject: postmodernism
Dear members,
I visit alt.postmodern regurlarly and I read the following message
from talkshow-host Jenny Jones. Did the opinion of R. Rorty really
have an impact on academic life in the US? In Europe the discussion
about postmodernism in this form is old news. I'm interested in your
views about the issue. Is the music of Zorn/contemorary composers in
general, relevant in the case of discussing postmodernism? Is all
the music of Zorn to be seen in a postmodern context? Do postmodern
theories give the music of Zorn more impact? How does Zorn feel about
his music to be seen in a postmodern context? Does he use it (either
negative or positive)? Questions, questions, questions...
Here's the article first:
Subject:
Re: Postmodernism??
Date:
2 Jul 1998 15:19:33 +0200
From:
Jenny Jones <jj@jenny.org>
Organization:
Replay Associates, L.L.P.
Newsgroups:
alt.postmodern
JENNY JONES: Boy, we have a show for you today! Recently, the
University of Virginia philosopher Richard Rorty made the stunning
declaration that nobody has "the foggiest idea" what postmodernism
means. "It would be nice to get rid of it," he said. "It isn't
exactly an idea; it's a word that pretends to stand for an idea." This
shocking admission that there is
no such thing as postmodernism has produced a firestorm of protest
around the country. Thousands of authors, critics and graduate
students who'd considered themselves postmodernists are outraged at
the betrayal. Today we have with us a writer-a recovering
postmodernist-who believes that his literary career and personal life
have been irreparably damaged by the theory, and who feels defrauded
by the academics who promulgated it. He wishes to remain anonymous, so
we'll call him "Alex."
JENNY JONES TO ALEX: Alex, as an adolescent, before you began
experimenting with postmodernism, you considered yourself-what?
[Close shot of ALEX. An electronic blob obscures his face. Words
appear at bottom of screen: "Says he was traumatized by postmodernism
and blames academics."]
ALEX (his voice electronically altered): A high modernist. Y'know,
Pound, Eliot, Georges Braque, Wallace Stevens, Arnold Schoenberg, Mies
van der Rohe. I had all of Schoenberg's 78's.
JENNY JONES: And then you started reading people like Jean-Francois
Lyotard and Jean Baudrillard-how did that change your feelings about
your modernist heroes?
ALEX: I suddenly felt that they were, like, stifling and canonical.
JENNY JONES: That is so sad, such a waste. How old were you when you
first read Fredric Jameson?
ALEX: Nine, I think.
[The AUDIENCE gasps.]
JENNY JONES: We have some pictures of young Alex. ...[We see snapshots
of 14-year-old ALEX reading Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari's
"Anti-Oedipus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia." The AUDIENCE oohs and
ahs.]
ALEX: We used to go to a friend's house after school-y'know, his
parents were never home-and we'd read, like, Paul Virilio and Julia
Kristeva.
JENNY JONES: So you're only 14, and you're already skeptical toward
the "grand narratives" of modernity, you're questioning any belief
system that claims universality or transcendence. Why?
ALEX: I guess-to be cool.
JENNY JONES: So, peer pressure?
ALEX: I guess.
JENNY JONES: And do you remember how you felt the very first time you
entertained the notion that you and your universe are constituted by
language-that reality is a cultural construct, a "text" whose meaning
is determined by infinite associations with other "texts"?
ALEX: Uh, it felt, like, good. I wanted to do it again.
[The AUDIENCE groans.]
JENNY JONES: You were arrested at about this time?
ALEX: For spray-painting "The Hermeneutics of Indeterminacy" on an
overpass.
JENNY JONES: You're the child of a mixed marriage-right?
ALEX: My father was a de Stijl Wittgensteinian and my mom was a
neo-pre-Raphaelite.
JENNY JONES: Do you think that growing up in a mixed marriage made you
more vulnerable to postmodernism?
ALEX: Absolutely. It's hard when you're a little kid not to be able to
just come right out and say (sniffles), y'know, I'm an Imagist or I'm
a phenomenologist or I'm a post-painterly abstractionist. It's really
hard-especially around the holidays. (He cries.)
JENNY JONES: I hear you. Was your wife a postmodernist?
ALEX: Yes. She was raised avant-pop, which is a fundamentalist
offshoot of postmodernism.
JENNY JONES: How did she react to Rorty's admission that postmodernism
was essentially a hoax?
ALEX: She was devastated. I mean, she's got all the John Zorn albums
and the entire Semiotext(e) series. She was crushed.
[We see ALEX'S WIFE in the audience, weeping softly, her hands
covering her face.]
JENNY JONES: And you were raising your daughter as a postmodernist?
ALEX: Of course. That's what makes this particularly tragic. I mean,
how do you explain to a 5-year-old that self-consciously recycling
cultural detritus is suddenly no longer a valid art form?
JENNY JONES: Tell us how you think postmodernism affected your career
as a novelist.
ALEX: I disavowed writing that contained real ideas or any real
passion. My work became disjunctive, facetious and nihilistic. It was
all metastatic irony, a pernicious banality palimpsest of media
pastiche. I found myself indiscriminately incorporating any and all
kinds of pop kitsch and shlock. (He begins to weep again.)
JENNY JONES: And this spilled over into your personal life?
ALEX: It was impossible for me to experience life with any emotional
intensity. I couldn't control the irony anymore. I perceived my own
feelings as if they were in quotes. I italicized everything and
everyone. It became impossible for me to appraise the quality of
anything. To me everything was equivalent-the Brandenburg Concertos
and the Lysol jingle had the same value.... (He breaks down, sobbing.)
JENNY JONES: Now, you're involved in a lawsuit, aren't you?
ALEX: Yes. I'm suing the Modern Language Association.
JENNY JONES: How confident are you about winning?
ALEX: We need to prove that, while they were actively propounding it,
academics knew all along that postmodernism was a specious theory. If
we can unearth some intradepartmental memos-y'know, a paper trail-any
corroboration that they knew postmodernism was worthless cant at the
same time they were teaching it, then I think we have an excellent
shot.
JENNY JONES wades into audience and proffers microphone to a woman.
WOMAN (with lateral head-bobbing): It's ironic that Barry Scheck is
representing the M.L.A. in this litigation because Scheck is the
postmodern attorney par excellence. This is the guy who's made a
career of volatilizing truth in the simulacrum of exculpation!
VOICE FROM AUDIENCE: You go, girl!
WOMAN: Scheck is the guy who came up with the quintessentially
postmodern re-bleed defense for O.J., which claims that O.J. merely
vigorously shook Ron and Nicole, thereby re-aggravating pre-existing
knife wounds. I'd just like to say to any client of Barry-lose that
zero and get a hero!
The AUDIENCE cheers wildly.
[Dissolve to message on screen: If you believe that mathematician
Andrew Wiles's proof of Fermat's last theorem has caused you or a
member of your family to dress too provocatively, call (800)
555-9455.]
Jeroen de Boer
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 10:35:23 -0300
From: jabu <jabu@sminter.com.ar>
Subject: Re: The last game
I agree 100 % with you.
Antonio Bueno
J.T. de Boer wrote:
> > If you guys want to talk soccer, I'm sure there
> > are plenty of othger sites to use. Leave us alone, we're discussing
> > music.
> >
> > gorge rising
> >
> > Ken Waxman
>
> Come on! It's just the game next saturday. OK, it's not about music,
> but don't you think it's just nice to see people correspond this way
> in a very friendly manner? Why immediately turn to a specialized
> mailinglist. It was just a spontaneous action, and I think that
> Hugo, as for me, feel sorry if we have offended you with our
> discussion. As for the American standpoint on the tournament: I was
> just curious how you feel about this, because all we hear about
> American soccer in Holland is that you've planned to be
> World-champion in 2002. This is the only mailinglist. If you
> don't like it we'll quit, and I think we would have stopped this
> discussion anyway when the game is played.
>
> Jeroen de Boer
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 09:04:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: The Alt.Coffee Tapes (was Re: Downtown stuff)
Way back when, William York was saying...
>Anyway I wanted to mention the CD _the alt.coffee tapes_ on Katahdin,
>maybe some of you all have been there. What a 90s thing this is -coffee,
>the internet, the cover, plus a change in the music from the faster paced
>stuff of the 80s to a more slowly developing and almost minimal approach
>at times, plus cheap electronics, unusual instruments (well, accordion
>at least), European folk influences, etc. This may be looked back in the
>same way as the 80s stuff but its pretty good- one track has Chris Speed
>and Drew Gress, mostly John Hollenbeck and Matt Moran who I'm less
>familiar w/.
Yeah, this is definitely a very special disc, very nice to see someone
mention it - I bought a copy from Moran during my trip up to NYC a while
back. The comment about "slowly developing and minimalist apporaches"
is really true, I think these guys are exploring a really interesting new
vibe, especially listening to some of the improvised peices on here.
For anybody who's interested, the tracks are as follows (I'm doing this
from memory so I don't know titles, but here are the players involved):
1) John Hollenbeck (percussion), Theo Bleckmann (voice, electronics)
2) The Refuseniks - Hollenbeck, Reuben Radding (bass), Ted Reichman
(accordion)
3) Hollenbeck, Matt Moran (vibes), Judy Dunaway (balloons!)
4) The Claudia Quintet - Hollenbeck, Moran, Reichman, Chris Speed
(clarinet), Drew Gress (bass)
5) The Refuseniks
6) Hollenbeck, Moran, Adam Good (guitar)
Tracks 1,3,6 are improvs, 2 and 4 are by Haden and Hollenbeck respectively,
and 5 is a traditional Norweigan ditty.
I'm sure it can be found at alt.coffee (check www.altdotcoffee for
details) or via Ted Reichman (as it's the 1st release on his new label,
Katahdin). Definitely worth checking out...
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #412
*******************************
To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
"majordomo@lists.xmission.com"
with
"unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
in the body of the message.
For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
"help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
in the commands above with "zorn-list".
Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.
Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com
