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Zorn List Digest        Saturday, June 20 1998        Volume 02 : Number 397



In this issue:
-
       Re: Laswell channels Miles
       Laswell & Miles P.S.
       Re: Laswell channels Miles
       Re: Laswell & Miles P.S.
       Re: Laswell channels Miles
       Re: Laswell channels Miles
       WhatI'dLikeToKnow
       Booker Little
       Re: Parallel Worlds
       Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow
       Re: Laswell channels Miles
       Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow
       Re: Laswell channels Miles
       Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:27:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles

On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:

>     In an article on his Panthalassa project, when asked what he
> thinks about critics, fans and (probably) the original producer, Teo Macero
> complaining about his remixs of Miles' 1969 to 1974 work he replies:
>     "I knew Miles and I absolutely know he would have liked
>     this. Nothing else matters. Not on review. Not one comment."

> And people talked about Ra's weirdness

    I really don't see what is so weird about Laswell's statements in the
article.  He details how he and Miles knew each other and planned to work
on a project together but Miles died before they could ever get around to
doing so.  When reading the article, I got the impression that from
knowing Miles (the person as well as his music), Laswell feels that Davis
would have approved of _Panthalassa_, i.e. the artist would have
approved of the mixing job done on his music.  Therefore, if Miles would
have given his blessing were he alive to do so, then screw everyone who
cries blasphemy when someone like Laswell "messes" with the originals.

    While I think that the author of the article unfairly makes it
seem as if Bill is whining about this issue, Laswell does have (IMHO) a
valid point.  He seems out to attack the purist point of view (interesting
how when Miles' electric works were being released we had acoustic purists
declaring them to be bullshit, and now three decades later some of the
"enlightened" cats of that time are crying foul @ the concept of
remixing).

    I would also highlight the portion of the article where Bill
states his belief that Teo did a sub-par job on the originals, and perhaps
very revealing in the ego department, Macero refusing to comment on Bill's
work.  One would think that the producer of the original versions, who
jazz lore basically credits with being a remixer (how many time have we
heard the story of Miles and the band jamming and Teo piecing together an
album out of hundreds of hours of tapes?), would at least be open to the
idea of someone else having a shot.  Yet apparently this is not the case.

    As a side note, if any purists out there (not that I think
that you would find many on this list) want to rally around a cause, they
can attack the Doc Scott and Jamie Myerson remixes of "Rated X" that are
floating around on a promo 12".  These two mixes are decent yet
standard-sounding jungle tracks that use the original as sample fodder yet
give no indication whatsoever how the remixers were affected by Davis and
his music.  I have no problem with using Davis for soundbytes, but I had
hoped that the remixes would have submitted tunes that carried a bit more
of a bang.

Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat,

Paul
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:31:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Laswell & Miles P.S.

One last observation that I forgot : at no point in the article does
Laswell give any sort of indication about "speaking with Miles from beyond
the grave."

But yes, Sun Ra did lead a fairly atypical life ;)

Paul
[e-mail]

  GROOVE
- ----------
One Nation



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:36:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles

I'm not burning anyone at a stake (unless they have mashmellows). My
argument is not with Laswell's production, it's that he claims to "speak"
for Miles. NOBODY knows how Miles would view any remix or reissue of his
work if he were alive.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]






On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Silent Watcher wrote:

>
> >    "I knew Miles and I absolutely know he would have liked
> >    this. Nothing else matters. Not on review. Not one comment."
> >    Do you think that since Bill seems to be tuned into Miles'
> >wavelength on the "other side" he could find out some more info from
> >him?    I'm mostly interested to know how he's getting along with Eric
> >Dolphy in the next world, not to mention his relations with Monk and
> >Mingus.
>
> Before you go out with the villagers to burn Laswell at the stake, you
> should know that Laswell has said in a few different places (I'll try to
> dig them up for you if I can find them) that he did meet with Miles more
> than a couple of times.  After Herbie Hancock's "Rockit" broke, Davis
> talked to him about producing and album, but in the end Laswell passed
> since he would have only done a few tracks, and he wanted to produce a
> whole album.
>
> DB
> For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography at
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:41:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell & Miles P.S.

I was exaggerating for humorous effect, but Laswell saying that Miles
would approve is still his (Laswell's) opinion. As I posted elsewhere,
NOBODY knows what Miles would think or say in 1998. His comment might be:
%&*&^%&%$$%%^%  -as they used to print it in the old downbeat.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]



On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Paul Audino wrote:

>
> One last observation that I forgot : at no point in the article does
> Laswell give any sort of indication about "speaking with Miles from beyond
> the grave."
>
> But yes, Sun Ra did lead a fairly atypical life ;)
>
> Paul
> [e-mail]
>
>   GROOVE
> ----------
> One Nation
>
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:51:40 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:27:49 -0500 (CDT)  Paul Audino wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> >     In an article on his Panthalassa project, when asked what he
> > thinks about critics, fans and (probably) the original producer, Teo Macero
> > complaining about his remixs of Miles' 1969 to 1974 work he replies:
> >     "I knew Miles and I absolutely know he would have liked
> >     this. Nothing else matters. Not on review. Not one comment."
>
> > And people talked about Ra's weirdness
>
>     I really don't see what is so weird about Laswell's statements in the
> article.  He details how he and Miles knew each other and planned to work
> on a project together but Miles died before they could ever get around to
> doing so.  When reading the article, I got the impression that from
> knowing Miles (the person as well as his music), Laswell feels that Davis
> would have approved of _Panthalassa_, i.e. the artist would have
> approved of the mixing job done on his music.  Therefore, if Miles would
> have given his blessing were he alive to do so, then screw everyone who
> cries blasphemy when someone like Laswell "messes" with the originals.
>
>     While I think that the author of the article unfairly makes it
> seem as if Bill is whining about this issue, Laswell does have (IMHO) a
> valid point.  He seems out to attack the purist point of view (interesting
> how when Miles' electric works were being released we had acoustic purists
> declaring them to be bullshit, and now three decades later some of the
> "enlightened" cats of that time are crying foul @ the concept of
> remixing).
>
>     I would also highlight the portion of the article where Bill
> states his belief that Teo did a sub-par job on the originals, and perhaps
> very revealing in the ego department, Macero refusing to comment on Bill's
> work.  One would think that the producer of the original versions, who

We live in a really strange world... According to the above, Bill says
something negative on Teo Macero and Teo Macero refuses to comment (the
causal relation is not clearly stated, but it is besides what I am trying
to say). If the above is true, I would be tempted to side on Teo Macero's
side who has the dignity to shut up when he has nothing special to say.
But the person writing this e-mail seems to believe that shutting his
mouth is not a correct attitude, but bad mouthing is fine...

I would also like to say that it is perfectly OK for an artist/producer/etc
not to have to comment (positively or negatively) on everything done after
him... He might have more important things to do, or just tired of being
expected to have something relevant to say. For many people, shutting up
still means that they don't care (on one way or another). Even though
shutting up, these days, and thanks to the litigation hysteria, is often
interpreted negatively (as does the poster).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:14:12 PDT
From: "Silent Watcher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles

>I'm not burning anyone at a stake (unless they have mashmellows).

Mmmmm....marshmellows...

>My argument is not with Laswell's production, it's that he claims to
>"speak" for Miles. NOBODY knows how Miles would view any remix or
>reissue of his work if he were alive.

Ok, sorry that I maybe read to deep into what I thought was deep sarcasm
as far as the "talking to the dead remarks".  Not having read the
article in Downbeat I can't comment on the words Laswell chooses.  As
for other articles on the remixes, Laswell says something to the effect
of he believes Miles would like what he did, and that he doesn't think
that it's all that sacreligious considering Miles' experimentation
throughout his career.  He always points to Macero's comments about
anyone not liking the work he did can remix the albums (or something of
that nature), although Macero doesn't seem all that pleased now that
it's been done.  Naturally, as you pointed out, no one can speak for
Miles' opinions on such works except Miles.

Peace,
DB
For Sale/Want list and Bill Laswell Discography at :
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:49:46 +0000
From: Dan Kuehn <[e-mail]>
Subject: WhatI'dLikeToKnow

Perhaps the 2nd volume of the Knitting Factory bookseries will discuss the
evolution of the "live webcam" and all the issues it raises, artistic
political & corporate.

And I'd sure like to know more about the club's  "globalization"...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cam continues nonfunctional since the Zorn
incident - I hope it's not a "private party" much longer....

They've got posted hours now 8 to midnight  -  that's about 2 to 6pm here,
which I understand as a musician, but jeez what a thrill it was to watch&hear
all those guys doing soundchecks!!!  Now just a brief moment in history - glad
I was "there"...

Actually, since the beginning of june, I have gotten picture a couple times,
but silent film, silent music   -nothing.

Can anybody give us any details about webcam drama or global takeover?

Thanks
- --
Smokey Dan

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:37:15 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Jamie F Graves)
Subject: Booker Little

I just picked up a copy of an old Booker Little album called "In New
York." I had always enjoyed his playing with Eric Dolphy, and I'm not at
all dissapointed with the disc. Does anyone have any other Booker Little
recomendations for me? I know his recorded output is quite small
considering his premature death.
Jamie

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:32:29 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Jamie F Graves)
Subject: Re: Parallel Worlds

>Yesterday I picked up Douglas's "Parallel Worlds". I already had
>"Five" and I liked that one so much it was nothing but a logical
>buy. Can anyone give recommendations for more mixtures of
>contemporary classical and improvized music? Not the ordinary
>Tzadik/Avant/Hat releases, but more obscure musicians and ensembles.
>
>Are there any opinions about "The Circle Maker"? I bought it a week
>ago and I like the more subtle approach when I compare it with the
>"Bar Kokhba" record.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeroen de Boer

Probably the first logical step would be to sniff around Gunther
Schuller's Third Stream stuff from the 60's. I have a Dolphy album called
Vintage Dolphy which has a Gunther Schuller piece called "Variations on a
Theme By Monk", which weaves in and out of jazz and classical in an
arrangement of Monk's Criss Cross.

I haven't heard it, but Uri Caine has a Mahler tribute album that you
might want to check out.
Jamie

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:44:51 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow

In a message dated 98-06-19 19:51:22 EDT, you write:

<< Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cam continues nonfunctional since the Zorn
 incident - I hope it's not a "private party" much longer....
  >>

I had video Thursday night, but no audio. And I was really looking forward to
that one too.....I really hope we haven't seen the end of this wonderful idea
due to some bloated egos.

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 21:06:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> We live in a really strange world... According to the above, Bill says
> something negative on Teo Macero and Teo Macero refuses to comment (the
> causal relation is not clearly stated, but it is besides what I am trying
> to say). If the above is true, I would be tempted to side on Teo Macero's
> side who has the dignity to shut up when he has nothing special to say.
> But the person writing this e-mail seems to believe that shutting his
> mouth is not a correct attitude, but bad mouthing is fine...

I re-checked the article.  It states that Macero was contacted, that he
was "incensed" at what Bill has done and that he refused to make any
on-the-record comments.  I don't think that this is an "incorrect
attitude" as much as it is a curiosity.  If Macero doesn't like what has
been done, why?  He's offered the forum to air his viewpoint but doesn't
even offer up any reason why he is displeased, although he is indeed
displeased.

> I would also like to say that it is perfectly OK for an artist/producer/etc
> not to have to comment (positively or negatively) on everything done after
> him... He might have more important things to do, or just tired of being
> expected to have something relevant to say. For many people, shutting up
> still means that they don't care (on one way or another). Even though
> shutting up, these days, and thanks to the litigation hysteria, is often
> interpreted negatively (as does the poster).

Of course he doesn't have to comment.  It's a shame that he doesn't,
however, seeing as how legend has accorded him the title of Shaper of
Miles Davis' Music Of This Period.  Since Miles isn't around to comment,
it would be nice if one of creative partners did.

Paul
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 01:57:49 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow

Dan Kuehn wrote:

> They've got posted hours now 8 to midnight  -  that's about 2 to 6pm here,
> which I understand as a musician, but jeez what a thrill it was to watch&hear
> all those guys doing soundchecks!!!  Now just a brief moment in history - glad
> I was "there"...

You were "there" for a lot more than you know.  Think about it this way... you
wake up one morning and discover, a la "The Truman Show," that your bathroom
mirror has always had a hidden camera behind it, through which the entire world
has been able to tune in to watch you scratch your ass in the morning.

That may sound funny, but that's about how it felt when Zorn found out that the
cameras had been on 24-7.  Thus the reaction.  But, like I said, the webcam's now
a part of the contract a performer signs in agreeing to play the Main Space, it's
turned on at the performer's discretion (or not), and if I understand correctly
from my former cohorts, it's actually more sophisticated now, with multiple
cameras giving a variety of angles on the stage.

> Actually, since the beginning of june, I have gotten picture a couple times,
> but silent film, silent music   -nothing.

I watched Masaoka/Parker/Ibarra the other day but there was no sound.  Perhaps a
statement is being made, or perhaps the equipment's simply out of order again.
Send a message to Steve Gratzer ([e-mail]) and see what he
reports.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 02:14:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Paul Audino wrote:

>     I would also highlight the portion of the article where Bill
> states his belief that Teo did a sub-par job on the originals, and perhaps
> very revealing in the ego department, Macero refusing to comment on Bill's
> work.  One would think that the producer of the original versions, who
> jazz lore basically credits with being a remixer (how many time have we
> heard the story of Miles and the band jamming and Teo piecing together an
> album out of hundreds of hours of tapes?), would at least be open to the
> idea of someone else having a shot.  Yet apparently this is not the case.

Since Macero's has stated that he's fine with someone else taking the
masters and making different choices, perhaps he just doesn't like the
choices Laswell made.  Or maybe (I haven't seen the article yet) he's just
pissed that Laswell's been badmouthing the original mixes so much.  If
it's the latter, I can sympathize.  I like the Laswell versions fine, but
I don't think they're up to Macero's, and Laswell's complaints about the
originals have made me really want to hate the new ones.

Chris Hamilton


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 02:32:07 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow

Steve Smith wrote:
> That may sound funny, but that's about how it felt when Zorn found out that the
> cameras had been on 24-7.  Thus the reaction.  But, like I said, the webcam's now
> a part of the contract a performer signs in agreeing to play the Main Space, it's
> turned on at the performer's discretion (or not), and if I understand correctly
> from my former cohorts, it's actually more sophisticated now, with multiple
> cameras giving a variety of angles on the stage.

It's probably a good thing that artists are being given a choice. If
it's so, though, it would make sense for the Powers That Be to note on
the calendar and the Web page whether an upcoming show was to be
Webcast, so we could turn in or not without playing Wheel of Knitting.

- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #397
*******************************


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