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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #393
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, June 14 1998 Volume 02 : Number 393
In this issue:
-
Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Re: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Downtown stuff
mistake on masada-8
Re: Kronos, again/Africa
Re: Another Downtown Question
Re: Another Downtown Question
Re: Raymond Scott
Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Re: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:45:21 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Caught the show at the Texaco fest last evening, and thought I'd offer a
few comments.
Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.
Henry Threadgill's Society Situation Dance Band--Now, here's a whole
nuther kettle o' fish. I wasn't quite sure what to expect of this
incarnation, but it turns out that it's pure Threadgill expanded to a
17-18 piece group and it was extraordinary. The band included Josh
Roseman, Bob Stewart, John Stubblefield, Brandon Ross, JT Lewis, Tony
Cedras, Stomu Takeshi (if I'm remembering his name correctly--the
electric bassist who works with Melford a.o.), Leroy Jenkins, Jason
Hwang and Charles Burnham (what a violin section!); Threadgill
conducted. All five pieces cooked, the band working its way through HT's
typically gnarly and beautiful heads with little difficulty, providing
wonderful bases for solos. Outstanding work from Burnham, Jenkins (great
to hear him still playing so beautifully), the soprano player (name
needed!) and the second trombonist, who turned in blistering work on the
funkiest piece of the evening (a heavy-set white or Latino fellow--need
this name too!). The finale set up a feverish rhythm that cooked with a
tension and energy level that had the entire house standing. Having both
Stewart and Takeshi in the band provided a wonderful, rich bottom to
each piece. HT's conception here is so great, I couldn't help thinking
of other players I'd like to have in this band, to make it even
stronger. For example, Amina Claudine Myers came out to sing on two
pieces and while she made a valiant effort, I'm thinking, "Get Fontella
Bass or Jevetta Steele--or Asha Puthli!--in here and the roof would've
blown!". Minor carping. I understand this was their first US concert;
catch 'em wherever possible. Great stuff.
Love to hear the opinions of anyone else who attended--even if they're
directly opposite!
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:45:21 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Caught the show at the Texaco fest last evening, and thought I'd offer a
few comments.
Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.
Henry Threadgill's Society Situation Dance Band--Now, here's a whole
nuther kettle o' fish. I wasn't quite sure what to expect of this
incarnation, but it turns out that it's pure Threadgill expanded to a
17-18 piece group and it was extraordinary. The band included Josh
Roseman, Bob Stewart, John Stubblefield, Brandon Ross, JT Lewis, Tony
Cedras, Stomu Takeshi (if I'm remembering his name correctly--the
electric bassist who works with Melford a.o.), Leroy Jenkins, Jason
Hwang and Charles Burnham (what a violin section!); Threadgill
conducted. All five pieces cooked, the band working its way through HT's
typically gnarly and beautiful heads with little difficulty, providing
wonderful bases for solos. Outstanding work from Burnham, Jenkins (great
to hear him still playing so beautifully), the soprano player (name
needed!) and the second trombonist, who turned in blistering work on the
funkiest piece of the evening (a heavy-set white or Latino fellow--need
this name too!). The finale set up a feverish rhythm that cooked with a
tension and energy level that had the entire house standing. Having both
Stewart and Takeshi in the band provided a wonderful, rich bottom to
each piece. HT's conception here is so great, I couldn't help thinking
of other players I'd like to have in this band, to make it even
stronger. For example, Amina Claudine Myers came out to sing on two
pieces and while she made a valiant effort, I'm thinking, "Get Fontella
Bass or Jevetta Steele--or Asha Puthli!--in here and the roof would've
blown!". Minor carping. I understand this was their first US concert;
catch 'em wherever possible. Great stuff.
Love to hear the opinions of anyone else who attended--even if they're
directly opposite!
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:48:58 EDT
From: <JonAbbey2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
In a message dated 6/14/98 2:25:20 AM, olewnik@IDT.NET wrote:
<<Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.>>
I didn't go see this show, mainly because the list of musicians didn't
especially appeal to me. What I would like to add is that while I too wasn't
previously completely convinced by Morris' conduction work, his new record on
For 4 Ears, Conduction #70: Tit For Tat, is superb. The musicians include the
ubiquitous Jim O'Rourke, the guys from Voice Crack, Stephan Wittwer, Fredy
Studer, and Gunter Muller. It's Morris' most prominent use of electronics yet,
and it achieves a flow lacking from a lot of his other records.
Morris also has a brand-new double CD on FMP called Berlin Skyscraper that I
haven't heard yet.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:44:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Downtown stuff
Thanks for the comments regarding my questions about The President and all
that. I should say that the I like the CD better than I first thought but
I'm glad to know this isn't considered a major work.
Also, I may have made it sound like I was referring to the "scene" in the
past tense. Well maybe the scene is different but most of those folks
seem to be developing their own ideas better as the scene has separated or
maybe its just them getting a clearer perspective on their ideas. Tim
Berne, Arto, Zorn, Ribot, E#, etc. seem to be doing just as well or better
than they were doing.
Anyway I wanted to mention the CD _the alt.coffee tapes_ on Katahdin,
maybe some of you all have been there. What a 90s thing this is -coffee,
the internet, the cover, plus a change in the music from the faster paced
stuff of the 80s to a more slowly developing and almost minimal approach
at times, plus cheap electronics, unusual instruments (well, accordion at
least), European folk influences, etc. This may be looked back in the
same way as the 80s stuff but its pretty good- one track has Chris Speed
and Drew Gress, mostly John Hollenbeck and Matt Moran who I'm less
familiar w/.
Sorry for rambling, William York
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:22:31 +0300 (WET)
From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il>
Subject: mistake on masada-8
it`s not something really serious, but two days ago i received my copy of
Masada-8 (Het) ,but the hebrew letter that printed in the circle on the
disc is not "Het", it`s "Zayin". did anybody else see it also?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:10:17 EDT
From: <Dgasque@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kronos, again/Africa
In a message dated 98-06-12 01:35:10 EDT, you write:
<< I think the pop-oriented Tarika is the one Henry Kaiser now refers to as
"Tarika
Shammy." >>
eh eh...a witty one, that Kaiser!
Dave
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:52:43 -0500
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Douglas Tapia wrote:
> I don't think it was commercial appeal that Bill or Wayne were after
> either. I think they are just gear heads who were playing with some new
> toys and their judgment was perhaps a little clouded by the newness of it
> all.
The live gigs I saw of The President bear this out. Same goes for The
Golden Palomino's. That first album, with the DX Drums, and all the
overdubbing realy pales in comparison to the live shows they put on.
But the " Why cant I make a good album" award has got to go to Peter
Blegvad, who despite being an excellent songwriter, singer, and stage
performer, cant seem to translate what he does to disc.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:52:43 -0500
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Douglas Tapia wrote:
> I don't think it was commercial appeal that Bill or Wayne were after
> either. I think they are just gear heads who were playing with some new
> toys and their judgment was perhaps a little clouded by the newness of it
> all.
The live gigs I saw of The President bear this out. Same goes for The
Golden Palomino's. That first album, with the DX Drums, and all the
overdubbing realy pales in comparison to the live shows they put on.
But the " Why cant I make a good album" award has got to go to Peter
Blegvad, who despite being an excellent songwriter, singer, and stage
performer, cant seem to translate what he does to disc.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 10:47:13 -0400
From: Matt Moffett <fkmoffet@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Raymond Scott
peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote:
>
> I just got the Beau Hunks doing a Raymond Scott tribute, and although the
> production is much better than the thin stuff of the originals (I have the
> Columbia package too) and it's very good, I was wondering
>
> does anyone know of any covers of Raymond Scott tunes that rock? I'm looking
> for somebody like the NRG Ensemble to cover some of his tunes or something I
> guess. Anything like that?
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
Jim Thirwell of Foetus has a big band oriented project called Steroid
Maximus. They cover "Powerhouse", and I think a few other Raymond Scott
tunes. The drummer and guitarist from Voivod play on the album, so it
has a little heavier feel than a traditional big band sound. Very
cartoony with a few samples thrown in here and there. A real fun album
as I remember.
I believe the album is long out of print (maybe 5 years old) but a
Borders or CDNOW might be able to track one for you, or you can always
post to alt.music.foetus (newsgroup for all Thirwell related projects).
Hope this helps...
Matt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:45:21 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Caught the show at the Texaco fest last evening, and thought I'd offer a
few comments.
Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.
Henry Threadgill's Society Situation Dance Band--Now, here's a whole
nuther kettle o' fish. I wasn't quite sure what to expect of this
incarnation, but it turns out that it's pure Threadgill expanded to a
17-18 piece group and it was extraordinary. The band included Josh
Roseman, Bob Stewart, John Stubblefield, Brandon Ross, JT Lewis, Tony
Cedras, Stomu Takeshi (if I'm remembering his name correctly--the
electric bassist who works with Melford a.o.), Leroy Jenkins, Jason
Hwang and Charles Burnham (what a violin section!); Threadgill
conducted. All five pieces cooked, the band working its way through HT's
typically gnarly and beautiful heads with little difficulty, providing
wonderful bases for solos. Outstanding work from Burnham, Jenkins (great
to hear him still playing so beautifully), the soprano player (name
needed!) and the second trombonist, who turned in blistering work on the
funkiest piece of the evening (a heavy-set white or Latino fellow--need
this name too!). The finale set up a feverish rhythm that cooked with a
tension and energy level that had the entire house standing. Having both
Stewart and Takeshi in the band provided a wonderful, rich bottom to
each piece. HT's conception here is so great, I couldn't help thinking
of other players I'd like to have in this band, to make it even
stronger. For example, Amina Claudine Myers came out to sing on two
pieces and while she made a valiant effort, I'm thinking, "Get Fontella
Bass or Jevetta Steele--or Asha Puthli!--in here and the roof would've
blown!". Minor carping. I understand this was their first US concert;
catch 'em wherever possible. Great stuff.
Love to hear the opinions of anyone else who attended--even if they're
directly opposite!
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:48:58 EDT
From: <JonAbbey2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
In a message dated 6/14/98 2:25:20 AM, olewnik@IDT.NET wrote:
<<Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.>>
I didn't go see this show, mainly because the list of musicians didn't
especially appeal to me. What I would like to add is that while I too wasn't
previously completely convinced by Morris' conduction work, his new record on
For 4 Ears, Conduction #70: Tit For Tat, is superb. The musicians include the
ubiquitous Jim O'Rourke, the guys from Voice Crack, Stephan Wittwer, Fredy
Studer, and Gunter Muller. It's Morris' most prominent use of electronics yet,
and it achieves a flow lacking from a lot of his other records.
Morris also has a brand-new double CD on FMP called Berlin Skyscraper that I
haven't heard yet.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #393
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