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Zorn List Digest        Thursday, June 4 1998        Volume 02 : Number 383



In this issue:
-
       "Great Jewish Music"
       paris 20th c - NYC 21st c
       Re: Bolan
       Re: "Great Jewish Music"
       zorn-list administration
       book on black music??
       Re: book on music listening
       ECM
       Re: intellectualism, doh!
       Re: David S Ware on Sony
       Re: Panthalassa
       moore/ maneri
       Public Image
       Re: Public Image
       North Sea Jazz Festival
       Re[2]: intellectualism, doh!
       Re: "Great Jewish Music"
       Re: Re[2]: intellectualism, doh!
       Berlin shows
       RE: Public Image
       Re: Re[2]: intellectualism, doh!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:01:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: "Great Jewish Music"

    In the newest The Wire, Gary Lucas says he's just contributed a
track to a Marc Bolan tribute album for Zorn's Great Jewish Music Series.
How expected. What next a tribute to Corky Laing and Leslie West of
Mountain ("Mississippi Queen")?
    If Zorn was really interested in exposing some unknown "Great Jewish
Music" he should do a session honoring the Brooklyn Jewish bebop pioneers of
the late 1940s. Al Cohn (tenor saxophone/composer/arranger) was the best
known, but they included drummer Tiny Kahn, vibist Terry Gibbs, tenor-
saxophonist Frankie Socolow, arranger George Handy, pianist/arranger Ed
Finckel, trombonist/composer Johnny Mandel, trumpeter Jerry Lloyd,
baritone saxophonist Danny Bank, Al Young, Irv Kruger etc. etc. Alternately
(or additionally) Tzadik could reissue Gibbs' "Jewish Melodies In Jazz
Time" and Shelly Manne's "My Son The Jazz Drummer." Now those two are the
real beginnings of the "Jewish Jazz Movement".
    Those interested in more "out" people carrying on this tradition
besides Zorn should check out Ivo Perelman's "En Adair: Traditional Jewish
Songs" On Music And Arts. On it tenor saxophonist Perelman improvises on
seen traditional melodies seconded by "landsmen" "Miriam" Crispell (piano),
"Yehuda" Hemmingway (drums) and "Wolfie" Parker (bass) --funny they don't
look it.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:05:04 -0500
From: Joe Germuska <[e-mail]>
Subject: paris 20th c - NYC 21st c

Jason Tors <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Sometimes I wonder if nyc is
>starting to decline as a haven for artists, musicians, writers, poets,
>dancers, etc...

might be something to do the rent.  People who choose such resolutely
unprofitable career paths as creative music need to find the right balance
between affordable living and sufficient audience.

Ah, Chicago :-)

Joe
- --
* Joe Germuska    {[e-mail]} |    Learning Technologies Group
<http://www.nwu.edu/people/j-germuska> |      Northwestern University

"One thing I've learned about time...
                              ...It moves very slowly."  --LaMonte Young

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:07:04 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bolan

What exactly is this supposed to mean?

From:    [e-mail] (Ken Waxman)

    In the newest The Wire, Gary Lucas says he's just contributed a
track to a Marc Bolan tribute album for Zorn's Great Jewish Music Series.
How expected.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:57:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Great Jewish Music"

On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:

>     In the newest The Wire, Gary Lucas says he's just contributed a
> track to a Marc Bolan tribute album for Zorn's Great Jewish Music Series.
> How expected.

Well, I'm fairly surprised, as I had no idea Bolan was Jewish.8^)

Chris Hamilton



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:12:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn-list administration

Once again I am shirking my duties and going on vacation.
So the zorn-list will be running on auto-pilot for the next
two weeks while I cavort on the streets of Paris.

What that means is

    all problems with subscribing/unsubscribing will
    have to wait until June 18th.

    any messages larger than 8K will sit in my mailbox
    waiting for me to forward them.

    any messages sent from a different address than
    the one you subscribed with will sit in my mailbox
    anxiously awaiting my return.

    any messages containing 'special' words like
    "subscribe", "help", etc. will also wait for me.

Of course, there is a *remote chance* that I'll actually
check my email in some Parisian cybercafe...yeah, right.  :)

have fun while I'm gone & play nice,

mike rizzi
zorn-list-owner

[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:37:36 +0200 (MEST)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: book on black music??

is there any good book available that focuses on black music ....
i am most interested in RnB/Soul focusing books...

BJOERN


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:46:45 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: book on music listening

Hi,

I think this isn't the book you're refering to, but I think it's very
interesting though. The title is "Musical Meaning and Expression" and
it's written by Stephen Davies. In this book he tries to describe
the meaning of music on a psychological and filosophical basis. I
haven't got the book yet, but I ordered it and it should come in in a
couple of weeks. Davies, who is an Australian art-filosopher, is a
fantastic writer who convinced me earlier this year with the
excellent book "Definitions of Art" in which he gives a very clear
overview of the filosophy of art.

Jeroen de Boer



 Some weeks ago somebody spoke
(here) about a book on music listening, psycology & related subjects.
I think I've got to read it but I can't remenber
author/title/ISBN/ecc. If somebody still has the original mail please
send it to my private adress. [e-mail]

Thanx & ciao

Thomas





- -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 05:16:42 +0500
From: "Terence Sin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ECM

ECM has declared war on Wire magazine:

http://www.mediapolis.com/ecm-cgi-bin/article?article=19980528.news


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:59:39 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: intellectualism, doh!

The point of view that: to hear a melody as a melody, is already
an intellectual viewpoint needs to be spelt out ... do you mean "to
pick out the melody, and call it a melody?  or would just humming the
melody do?  what if you got mislead by the harmony (and got it
wrong)?  or, what if the melody was harmonised, so as to, as it were,
offer a choice of what to hum?  (this last afflicts me when I'm
trying to pick it out on an instrument) -

as an aside, can anyone run me down the bridge of Little Rootie
Tootie?  I picked it out on guitar the other night, starting on G#-C-
Eb-F#-F, C#-etc., ...  Don't worry about the "banged" chords, it's
simply some of the runs I can't discern.

Anyway, I'm surprised no-one responded to the Leibniz quote I posted,
as that too seemed to claim that pleasure at music was unconscious
mathematics!  But this view seems more Kantian to me: that to
perceive anything is to categorise it.  This is like philosophers who
- - responding to the (already bonkers) claim that the aeroplane in the
sky isn't "given" in perception, but is "judged" on the basis of the
"little black spot" that is "given" - say that even the "little black
spot" must be judged as it has been categorised AS a "little black
spot".  And people wonder why there's been so little progress in 2500
years!!!


Sean

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:09:07 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David S Ware on Sony

I know that this topic was thoroughly trawled a while back, but
Branford Marsalis was on UK's Jazz On 3 last Friday, briefly
explaining his signing policy: to sign great musicians who had NEVER
had a record deal.  Jeff Watts was his key example, but his second
was Kenny Kirkland, of whom he qualified the criteria by saying, if i
remember rightly, that Kirkland had "never REALLY had a PROPER record
deal".  He then mentioned Calderazzo, and Ware, who he said was sort
of avant-garde, up-front sax ... well, in any case, he did enthuse
about him, so we might assume that Branford at least has no plans to
drop him yet.  His other comment was that it would be a marketing
ploy to sign a teenager, but that there weren't any good teenage jazz
players - that he (BM) wasn't that good as a teenager, and that Sonny
Rollins WAS, but that Rollins was Rollins (a nice use of what we in
philosophy mistake for tautology) - he might have added that Rollins
was in his sixties now, but didn't!

Anyone recommend any good Ware albums?

Sean Wilkie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:25:16 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Panthalassa

Am I alone in thinking that one of the big boo-boos on Panthalassa,
is the mutilation of the organ part on Rated X?

Also, as no-one has carried forward the (ahem) sterling analysis of
this album, let me continue: Billy Preston is pretty much untouched,
from Miles' point of view.  There's a kind of theme "couplet" of
phrases which Bill uses twice at around 7.40, in place of a climbing
phrase by Miles on the original.  Then this "theme" reappears at
around 8.30 and 9.05, but there was no trumpet at these spots in the
original.  It then cuts the last 4 or 4andahalf minutes off the
original, but there isn't too much trumpet on that section anyway ...
The "theme", by the way, is played by Miles prior to Laswell's
"repeats", and is subsequently used occasionally in fragment on the
original (and is heard on Laswell's mix too ...)

Right, I really do have too much work on, so how about somebody else
doing the last piece, He Loved Him Madly?  Hywel's already pilloried
the ending ...

Sean Wilkie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:09:10 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: moore/ maneri

any recommendations of Michael Moore's cd? who plays with him on the
new trio "bering".
has anyone heard the new Mat Maneri "acceptance" on hatology?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:32:52 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Public Image

Bill Laswell mentioned that Tony Williams drummed on the PIL album.
I'd heard that Ginger Baker played on it, and I'm told that Hancock
and Steve Vai did too.  Does anyone know the full personnel list?

Sean Wilkie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 06:47:17 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Public Image

At 12:32 PM 6/4/98 GMT0BST, DR S WILKIE wrote:
>Bill Laswell mentioned that Tony Williams drummed on the PIL album.
>I'd heard that Ginger Baker played on it, and I'm told that Hancock
>and Steve Vai did too.  Does anyone know the full personnel list?

John Lydon: Voice; Steve Vai: Guitar; Skopelitis: Guitar; Bernie Worrell:
Organ; Bill Laswell: Bass; Tony Williams: Drums; Bernard Fowler:
Voice; Ryuichi Sakamoto: Fairlight CMI; L. Shankar: Violin; Malachi Favors:
Acoustic Bass; Ginger Baker: Drums; Aiyb Dieng: Chatan; Jonas
Hellborg: Bass; Steve Turre: Didjeridu
Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:42:50 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: North Sea Jazz Festival

Here are some nice acts from the upcoming NSJ-Festival in Den Haag,
The Netherlands. It's taking place at july 10-12.

MISHA MENGELBERG / YURI HONING DUO
CLUSONE TRIO
MINGUS BIG BAND
LEE KONITZ / CHARLIE HADEN / PAUL BLEY
LOUIS SCLAVIS TRIO     special  guest DAVE   DOUGLAS
GIANLUIGI TROVESI OCTET
PAUL WEILING TRIO   special  guest DAVID TRONZO
RAY ANDERSON'S LAPIS LAZULI BAND
PAINKILLER   feat. BILL LASWELL, JOHN ZORN & MIKE HARRIS
BENNINK / BORSTLAP / GLERUM
PIERRE COURBOIS QUINTET
STEVEN BERNSTEIN'S SEX MOB
HARRIET TUBMAN
feat. Brandon Ross Brandon Ross (guitar), Melvin Gibbs (bass), J.T.
Lewis (drums)
WAYNE HORVITZ & ZONY MASH
JAZZ ON LINE
Live from the Knitting factory and the North Sea Jazz Festival.
Details t.b.a.

Check out their website: http://www.netcetera.nl/northsea/98/


Jeroen de Boer







- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Jun 98 12:38:13 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: intellectualism, doh!

Sean Wilkie wrote:

>Anyway, I'm surprised no-one responded to the Leibniz quote I
>posted, as that too seemed to claim that pleasure at music was
>unconscious mathematics!

Well, unless one accepts the "soulist" point of view, which I don't,
doesn't this ultimately follow? At some level far below conscious
perception (but no less real) the pleasure derived from music begins
as a pattern recognition activity, the same as sight, smell, etc.

As an analogy: I'm looking at a photo on my office calendar depicting
a couple of samoyeds frolicking in a field of flowers (hey, someone
gave it to me). While I can happily look at it as "two dogs" I know
that, should I choose to peer closely, it's nothing more than a great
number of colored dots (and, of course, further that those dots are
just molecules, the molecules atoms...). I _can_ view it in its
component parts, though I choose not to and I "enjoy" it on a
meta-level, without, generally, being conscious of its "actuality"
though, on a level below my consciousness, I necessarily perceive
that actuality.

Next: I'm listening to a CD (as it happens, Simon Fisher Turner's
soundtrack to Derek Jarman's 'The Garden'). It would be possible, I
imagine, to transcribe each bit of digital data into, essentially, a
mathematical equation, this one here representing a tiny fraction of
a phoneme of Tilda Swinton's voice. I could even more eccentricly
imagine that one could, with infinite practice and extraordinary
brainpower, learn to read these equations, mentally coalesce them and
appreciate them just as if one had "heard" them! Hofstadter had the
same idea when he had one of his characters remove a vinyl LP from
its sleeve and visually scan it, "reading" the music encoded there
(why not? it's simply information!) and enjoying it just as much as
if the information was entering his ears rather than his eyes.

The point being that the brain has not evolved to be conscious of its
own internal workings. Move your right index finger an inch; now try
to explain how you did it. I've no doubt that musical enjoyment,
along with everything else we perceive, is, at bottom
mechanical/mathematical. Those with mystical notions would dispute
this and, generally, shudder at the thought of a deeper analysis of
art, fearing that we will lose the "mystery". Those of us on the
other side of the Cartesian divide tend not to have any fear of
following the path towards deeper understanding of nature, wherever
it leads. What one finds will likely be far more beautiful and
mysterious than any mystical dogma.

Side point: I don't have a great deal of difficulty imagining some
time in the future the possibility of a neurosurgeon entering my
skull and tweaking a given area of brain, thereby causing my
consciousness to perceive Kenny G's music as heartrendingly
beautiful. How would this affect the objective/subjective taste
arguments?

My two cents.

Brian Olewnick








- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:49:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Great Jewish Music"

Yup, real name Marc Feld

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]





On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Christopher Hamilton wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> >     In the newest The Wire, Gary Lucas says he's just contributed a
> > track to a Marc Bolan tribute album for Zorn's Great Jewish Music Series.
> > How expected.
>
> Well, I'm fairly surprised, as I had no idea Bolan was Jewish.8^)
>
> Chris Hamilton
>
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:56:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: intellectualism, doh!

On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Those with mystical notions would dispute
> this and, generally, shudder at the thought of a deeper analysis of
> art, fearing that we will lose the "mystery".

You seem to be using "mystical" as a synonym for "newagey". Or something.
Those who follow the more rigorous schools of mystical thought (have you
investigated these before condemning the "mystical") would shudder at the
thought that people think that they are opposed to the analytical.

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:52:20 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Berlin shows

Does anybody knows about interresting shows in Berlin between 11th and
14th of June?
Thanks


______________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak ([e-mail]) (spam filter in
use)
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:52:25 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Public Image

> John Lydon: Voice; Steve Vai: Guitar; Skopelitis: Guitar;
> Bernie Worrell:
> Organ; Bill Laswell: Bass; Tony Williams: Drums; Bernard Fowler:
> Voice; Ryuichi Sakamoto: Fairlight CMI; L. Shankar: Violin;
> Malachi Favors:
> Acoustic Bass; Ginger Baker: Drums; Aiyb Dieng: Chatan; Jonas
> Hellborg: Bass; Steve Turre: Didjeridu

Is this lineup on the album cover? Or you just know?


______________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak ([e-mail]) (spam filter in
use)
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:56:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: intellectualism, doh!

On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Those with mystical notions would dispute
> this and, generally, shudder at the thought of a deeper analysis of
> art, fearing that we will lose the "mystery".

You seem to be using "mystical" as a synonym for "newagey". Or something.
Those who follow the more rigorous schools of mystical thought (have you
investigated these before condemning the "mystical") would shudder at the
thought that people think that they are opposed to the analytical.

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #383
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