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v02.n349
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1998-04-30
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #349
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, May 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 349
In this issue:
-
Couple of semi-AMM-related questions
Re: Couple of semi-AMM-related questions
Re: Masada Snit
Frank Zappa as composer
Roof
Victo festival
Re: Steve Smith's incredibly detailed account of befuddlement at the Roscoe Mitchell concert, NYC 4/27/98 aka 'Spazz At The Philharmonic'
WAYNE HORVITZ
Re: Frank Zappa as composer
Re: ZAPPA
Re: Victo festival
Re[2]: Frank Zappa as composer
Re: Re: Buckethead's Colma
Re: ZAPPA
Re: Victo festival
Re: Gerry @ Victo festival
Couple of semi-AMM-related questions
Myra Melford in NC
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:58:47 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Couple of semi-AMM-related questions
(Apologies if this message comes over more than once. Attempted to send
it from work today, apparently unsuccessfully, but it might be belched
forth later.)
Can anyone cite or recommend:
1) Work by John Tilbury in contexts other than AMM, including
performances of other composers works? I understand he's recorded much
of the Feldman piano canon for the London Hall label.
2) Recordings by occasional AMM collaborator Howard Skempton?
Thanks,
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:43:47 EDT
From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Couple of semi-AMM-related questions
In a message dated 4/30/98 6:00:44 PM, olewnik@IDT.NET wrote:
<<Can anyone cite or recommend:
1) Work by John Tilbury in contexts other than AMM, including
performances of other composers works? I understand he's recorded much
of the Feldman piano canon for the London Hall label.
2) Recordings by occasional AMM collaborator Howard Skempton?
>>
Well, killing two birds with one stone, the only Skempton recording I know of
is called Well Well Cornelius and is solo piano compositions performed by John
Tilbury. It's on Sony and was domestically released a year or two back. I
haven't heard it in a while and thus can't comment on the music's quality.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:51:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Masada Snit
> Everybody's getting upset because a freebie got cut short? *I'm* upset cuz I
> missed the
> whole thing since nobody posted anything to this list announcing the webcast.
i watches the second set on monday night and i must say it was a VERY
DISTANT second to seeing them live at the knit. The net broadcasts are
just simply not the same, nor will they ever be. Interesting, yes;
exciting?....well, for the first few minutes, maybe...
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:54:50 -0700
From: Greg Mills <gregm@leftfield.net>
Subject: Frank Zappa as composer
Hello,
I think I might be opening a can of worms here, but I gotta question for
list members who have a music theory background.
Was Frank Zappa a "competent" composer? I like his orchestral stuff, but
I am a mere country rube.Was good at what he did, or was he merely adept
at making creepy sounds fit together? Perhpas this question is
inappropriate, but again, I am a bumpkin.
Thanks.
GReg Mills
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:33:05 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Roof
I just picked up Roof's THE UNTRACEABLE CIGAR and absolutely love it!
The group consists of the late Tom Cora (cello), Luc Ex (bass - I'm not
familiar with him), Phil Minton (vocals) and Michael Vatcher (drums -
was on Spy Vs. Spy right?) and they play composed music (with, granted,
plenty of improv within). Rock-tinged, super-compositions and playing as
could be expected from these guys. They do a rendition of Harry Partch's
"The Letter" and a couple tracks have Minton singing lyrics (in addition
to his standard wack shit). Super disc! I recommend it lots. Anyway, has
this group released anything else worthy of buying?? Thanks for any
info. See ya!
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:20:22 -0400
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette <rbisson@courrier.usherb.ca>
Subject: Victo festival
Jon wrote:
"So who's going to Victoriaville besides me? It looks like the strongest lin=
eup
of the three I've been to so far."
Well, I am -- but since I live in the area, it's no big feat. I'm looking
forward to the Zorn/Patton/Mori gig, since I've never heard these three
playing together. I would love to see the Gerry Hemingway Quartet (with
Han Bennink opening, no less!) but sadly I really can't make that one.
Bruno
R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D.
Professeur titulaire
=46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive
Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke
Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec
J1K 2R1
=20
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:46:52 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Smith's incredibly detailed account of befuddlement at the Roscoe Mitchell concert, NYC 4/27/98 aka 'Spazz At The Philharmonic'
David Newgarden wrote:
> I disagree.
DAY-VIIIHHDD! No fair! I want to know what you thought! With this
reply I don't even know *what* you disagree with! Pretty please?
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:47:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Toby Dodds <toby@seanet.com>
Subject: WAYNE HORVITZ
Hello!
Many of you may already know about this but on the eve of tour I thought
I'd send one more message to remind you all to come out and see Zony Mash
as they hit the road again this next week.
Also there is brand new web site at www.zonymash.com to look over!
See you down the road...
Smiles,
Toby
WAYNE HORVITZ & ZONY MASH
UPCOMING SHOWS SPRING 1998
Friday, May 1st
Berbatti's Pan - Portland, OR
Saturday, May 2nd
Wow Hall - Eugene, OR
Sunday, May 3rd
Jambalaya - Arcata, CA
Tuesday, May 5th
SLO Brewery - San Luis Obispo, CA
Wednesday, May 6th
The Coach House - Santa Barbara, CA
Thursday, May 7th
Duffy's Tavern - Chico, CA
Friday, May 8th
Kresge Hall, UC of Santa Cruz - Santa Cruz, CA
Saturday, May 9th
Great American Music Hall - San Francisco, CA
w/Robin Holcomb!
Sunday, May 10th
McCabes Guitar Shop - Santa Monica, CA
Wednesday, June 3rd
NY Jazzfest - New York City
w/Jazz Passengers & Squirrel Nut Zippers!
Sunday, June 21st
DuMaurier Jazz Festival - Vancouver, BC
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:49:42 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Frank Zappa as composer
Greg Mills wrote:
> Was Frank Zappa a "competent" composer? I like his orchestral stuff, but
> I am a mere country rube.Was good at what he did, or was he merely adept
> at making creepy sounds fit together?
He was adept at making sounds fit together... which is about as much of
a definition of a "competent" composer as is needed.
- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:16:58 -0700
From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: ZAPPA
i could go on for hours concerning frank zappa and his work but i will
spare you all..... yes frank zapppa was a serious and VERY competent
composer. Having works premiered by Peter Boulez conducting is a very
serious deal. and even zappa was disappointed on how it turnded out.
Working with the Ensemble Modern, at their request, on "the yellow shark"
is another milestone achievement considering the fact that they play only
the finest "new" music.
coinsidering the fact that new music is not very well funded in the US, and
zappa completely self-financed all of his projects, doing work with large
orchestras was extremely expensive, and frustrating. especially when the
union musicians walk out in the middle of the rocording of the last take of
a piece because they had gone over time. ruining the entire days work.
(see it old you i could ramble on and on)
while the fact that FZ composed music in other genres that most do not
consider "serious", keeps him away from the serious composers group, he
deserves a place among the most important american artists of the 20th
century. not only for his compositional prowess, but also for the extreme
levels of conceptual continuity that exists in ALL of his works recorded
and otherwise. over thirty years and 60+ albums (with superb player),
zappa created a lifework that cannot be evaluated piecemeal. just as we
would not want to single out any one particular zorn work or recording to
hold as the ideological or stylistic norm, we need to extend the same to
the late great frank zappa.
additionally, he was never formally trained in music.... that is he never
went to school or a conservatory. he taught himself how to play the
guitar, very well. yet when you hear him explain his music technically or
creatively, he displays an enormous corpus of musical knowledge. as far as
i am concerned he is pure musical genius. and the icing on the cake is
that he is extremely intellectual yet comical in his unrelenting, spare no
one, social critiques.
in conclusion, there is alot more going on than arranging "creepy sounds".
in the same way that zorn is not. would we ask the same questio of the
newsgroups namesake?
patrick in portland
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 07:56:54 -0400
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Victo festival
R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote:
> Jon wrote:
>
> "So who's going to Victoriaville besides me? It looks like the
> strongest lineup
> of the three I've been to so far."
>
> Well, I am -- but since I live in the area, it's no big feat. I'm
> looking
> forward to the Zorn/Patton/Mori gig, since I've never heard these
> three
> playing together. I would love to see the Gerry Hemingway Quartet
> (with
> Han Bennink opening, no less!) but sadly I really can't make that one.
>
> Bruno
>
> R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D.
>
Remi:
You might want to jump in the car and drive to Philadelphia on May 22.
The Gerry Hemingway Quartet, featuring Ellery Eskelin, Mark Dresser, and
Herb Roberston, will be performing here that evening. The show will be
held at the Unitarian Church, between 21st and 22nd on Chestnut. Show
is at 7:30. Come early!! Another Sweetnighter Production.
Alan Kayser (Sweetnighter Productions)
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:19:34 UT
From: peter_risser@cinfin.com
Subject: Re[2]: Frank Zappa as composer
<<
Greg Mills wrote:
> Was Frank Zappa a "competent" composer? I like his orchestral stuff, but
> I am a mere country rube.Was good at what he did, or was he merely adept
> at making creepy sounds fit together?
He was adept at making sounds fit together... which is about as much of
a definition of a "competent" composer as is needed.
>>
Besides, who gives a fuck what everyone else thinks. If you like what he does,
then he must have been a good enough composer for you, and that's all that
matters.
PeterR
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:35:45 EDT
From: Sulacco <Sulacco@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Buckethead's Colma
i've seen it at Tower and Barnes&Noble. i rather enjoy the disc. its not
complete shredra like Bucketheadland, but it demonstrates his progression as a
guitarist and composer (whew, that sounded heavy)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 08:38:33 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: ZAPPA
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:16:58 -0700 "Patrick Stockton" wrote:
>
> i could go on for hours concerning frank zappa and his work but i will
> spare you all..... yes frank zapppa was a serious and VERY competent
> composer. Having works premiered by Peter Boulez conducting is a very
^^^^^^^^^^^
The fact that Boulez chose Zappa as an "outside" composer has always
looked suspicious to me (but it seems that I am the only one to see
something strange here).
Boulez got attacked quite a bit in the '80s for having a very narrow vision
of what is great contemporary music. I remember how much he dismissed
basically every composer who did not have his card of affiliated serial
composer. Even composers such as Ligetti had a hard time to be accepted
(I don't remember Boulez' comment about Ligetti, but it was far from being
flattering). Anyway, it seems to me that under more and more pressure to
open the range of the Ensemble Intercontemporain program, he decided (against
his will, I am sure), to get "outsiders" (definition easy to match when you
know how narrow Boulez'vision of a good modern composer is). Surprisingly,
he chose Zappa. I will always feel that his choice of Zappa was his way to
show that he was more open that people thought, but, at the same time, he
chose an artist whose "serious" music was more or less falling in the only
cannon he believed was worth pushing: post-serial music!
Can't stop thinking how good he felt seeing a young and popular artist such
as Zappa writing music in the post-serial vein, when so many people were
saying that the genre was a dead-end.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:36:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Victo festival
Or if you want to save your American $$$ and experience Canada's jazz/new=
=20
music capital, Hemmingway et.al will be at the=20
Rivoli in Toronto May 16. Probably $15. I'll be at FIMAV at that time,=20
though.
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
On Fri, 1 May 1998, Alan E Kayser wrote:
> R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote:
>=20
> > Jon wrote:
> >
> > "So who's going to Victoriaville besides me? It looks like the
> > strongest lineup
> > of the three I've been to so far."
> >
> > Well, I am -- but since I live in the area, it's no big feat. I'm
> > looking
> > forward to the Zorn/Patton/Mori gig, since I've never heard these
> > three
> > playing together. I would love to see the Gerry Hemingway Quartet
> > (with
> > Han Bennink opening, no less!) but sadly I really can't make that one.
> >
> > Bruno
> >
> > R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D.
> >
>=20
> Remi:
>=20
> You might want to jump in the car and drive to Philadelphia on May 22.
> The Gerry Hemingway Quartet, featuring Ellery Eskelin, Mark Dresser, and
> Herb Roberston, will be performing here that evening. The show will be
> held at the Unitarian Church, between 21st and 22nd on Chestnut. Show
> is at 7:30. Come early!! Another Sweetnighter Production.
>=20
> Alan Kayser (Sweetnighter Productions)
>=20
> > -
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -
>=20
>=20
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:50:53 -0700
From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia)
Subject: Re: Gerry @ Victo festival
>I would love to see the Gerry Hemingway Quartet (with
>Han Bennink opening, no less!) but sadly I really can't make that one.
That's really too bad. I caught Gerry's Quartet at Maxamillion's in Denver
this past sunday and the band was amazing. The audience sat entranced for
the 3+ hours of the show. The Quartet out on tour this time around
consists of Ray Anderson-tbn, Elerry Esklin-tnr, Michael Formanek-bs, and
Gerry Hemmingway-drs.
Ray sounded great as always and amazed all the bone geeks with his
superhuman ability on the instrument, playing triads, taking half his slide
off and playing a long solo that way, and of course his range, his range.
I'd never seen Elerry live, but have heard him on quite a few recordings.
He blew me away. For my money, he stole the show. I was sitting with Ron
Miles and the guys from his trio (Artie Moore, Tim Sullivan) and some of
the rest of Colorado's great jazz musicians and we were all in awe of
Elerry's playing. You must see this guy live!
Michael sounded great as always and played with his usually technical
prowess balanced by his uncanny sense of taste and appropriatness. Michael
is one in a rare group of players who can drone on an onstinato for thirty
minutes without loosing any of the freshness of the idea, and then turn
around and play like Scott LaFarro.
Gerry's composition was stunning and his playing was other worldly. He was
never not musical. He played one of the loudest, thrashingest solos I've
ever heard, but his talent and the groups sympathy to what he was doing
made this work in every way. He delighted the audience by using his breath
to alter the pitch of his floor tom (there was a piece of syrgical tubing
atached to the hole in the side of the tom which he blew into to increase
the air presure inside the drum.) This was a revelation to me, but a
drummer friend informed me that this had been done in the '70s with Zappa's
band.
One of the best concerts I've seen in a while, this group was so, so, so
musical, and the group payed brief musical tribute to the harmelodic groups
(Ornette, Masada, et al) that have come before and greatly expanded on this
tradition.
___
This after seeing a week worth of the new Art Lande Quartet featuring Paul
McCandless, Dean Johnson, and Eliot Zigmond at the West End in Boulder and
at the UNC Jazz Festival. This was an amazing group that might just be
coming to a city near you soon, so if you get the chance, check it out.
IMHO this is one of the freshest colective improv groups ever assembled and
reflect the diversity in the member's background.
- -Doug
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 10:48:31 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Couple of semi-AMM-related questions
Can anyone cite or recommend:
1) Any piano works by John Tilbury outside of AMM? Including those
featuring music by other composers. I understand he's recorded a good
deal of Feldman for the London Hall label.
2) Any recordings by the British composer (and occasional AMM
collaborator) Howard Skempton.
Thanks,
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:59:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Myra Melford in NC
I saw Myra Melford w/ Stomu Takeishi and Kenny Wolleson last night and
they were really amazing. Wollesen was especially surprising because I
have heard him on records but mostly in a supporting role. He certainly
isn't an imposing physical presence but he was very musical in his use of
sticks brushes, mallets, hands, and fingers. Sometimes these extended
techniques can get in the way but generally he was on top of things.
Takeishi makes aa lot of strange movements while he is playing but for an
electric bass player in a jazz setting I thought he did very well. This
is a great group, and their concept of interplay within Melford's songs is
pretty unique and completely absorbing- rather than more rubato 'insect'
style playing they have a way of playing where every player has an equally
important role. I would haveprobably enjoyed just seeing Melford play
solo as much. Does anyone know if her trio recordings (diff. lineup I
know) live up to her live shows?
Also, re: Buckethead 'Colma', I don't get where the appeal would be in
this. I'm not saying no one would like it, but I was unable to endure the
lenght of any of the songs when listening to it.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #349
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