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Zorn List Digest       Thursday, April 30 1998       Volume 02 : Number 348



In this issue:
-
       Re: Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98
       sanctuary?
       Re: Evan Parker
       Re: circle breathing
       Buckethead's Colma
       Re: circle breathing
       Re: circle breathing
       Re: Masada at the Knit, Thursday
       Re: Buckethead's Colma
       Re: Buckethead's Colma
       Masada & Klezmer
       Masada Snit
       Re: circle breathing
       Masada KF broadcasts
       Re: Masada KF broadcasts
       re: Steve Smith's incredibly detailed account of befuddlement at the Roscoe Mitchell concert, NYC 4/27/98 aka 'Spazz At The Philharmonic'
       Re:  Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98
       Re: Evan Parker

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:22:42 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98

I was actually pretty skeptical about the first piece until a friend I was
with (a musician) advised me to close my eyes and listen.  Before I also
just saw them picking up and playing one instrument after another for a few
notes each.  After I 'listened,' I heard more of a 'conversation' going on
between the players.

The percussion piece was actually my favorite because of most of the
beautiful and wide ranging sounds the ensemble was able to make- the traps,
snares, chimes, xylophones, toys, conches, talking drums, tin cans and
everything else were used well here.

I guess I would have enjoyed having a steady beat behind the music but I
could definitely appreciate what Mitchell was trying to do.

I was pretty close to violence when some ignorant bastard stood up in the
middle of the one of pieces and yelled 'this is a bloody outrage!  I could
compose better music!  I want my money back!'

Jason

Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]

http://www.furious.com/perfect

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:09:29 -0700
From: "Patrick Stockton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: sanctuary?

i know this has already been discussed but my memory is failing....
therefore i have no choice but to ask for someone's opinion on David
Douglas' Sacntuary (Avant). email me privately to prevent starting another
thread on this already discussed topic.

patrick in portland
[e-mail]

ps- recent pickup..... cyro baptista's avant release..... an excellent
work.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:24:42 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Oger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Evan Parker

>I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO
>much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me.
>Anyone else have thought son this?
>
>Out of what I have, I would pick MOST MATERIALL (w/Prevost), NATIVES AND
>ALIENS (w/Guy, Lytton & Crispell) and CONIC SECTIONS (solo soprano) to
>be my favorites.
>
>                                -Tom Pratt

I like very much CHICAGO SOLO (Okka Disc).
For me it's a very important CD.
Parker plays a kind of mix between Coltrane and old african songs. GREAT !

                                Jacques Oger (Paris)







- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:43:19 -0800
From: George Grella <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: circle breathing

American OLivo writes:


> if anybody  has any information on circle breathing could you let me know. is
> it possible to circle breath while throat singing or chanting? feel free to
> email me privately if so desired. thanks
>     jt
>

Circular breathing involves holding a supply of air in your mouth and
forcing it out using pressure provided by your cheek muscles while
inhaling through your nostrils.  Since air has to pass over your vocal
chords in your throat to produce any type of vocal sound [chanting or
singing], and with circular breathing there is a point where no air is
passing, outward bound, over your vocal chords, you would not be able to
apply the technique to any sort of vocalisation.

gg


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:49:30 -0400
From: "Andy Marks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Buckethead's Colma

Anybody know where I can order a copy of
Buckethead's Colma, besides CyberOctave?
They want $15.98 + $4.00 shipping, which
seems a little steep for 1 CD. I've checked the
usual places on-line (CDNOW, CD Connection,
Forced Exposure, EAR-Rational), but none of them have it.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:53:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: circle breathing

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote:

> Circular breathing involves holding a supply of air in your mouth and
> forcing it out using pressure provided by your cheek muscles while
> inhaling through your nostrils.  Since air has to pass over your vocal
> chords in your throat to produce any type of vocal sound [chanting or
> singing], and with circular breathing there is a point where no air is
> passing, outward bound, over your vocal chords, you would not be able to
> apply the technique to any sort of vocalisation.

Listen to Joan La Barbara's records (such as, I believe, "Voice is the
Original Instrument") where she does circular-breathed vocals by singing
both while inhaling and exhaling.
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:59:02 -0800
From: George Grella <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: circle breathing

Joseph S. Zitt writes:

> Listen to Joan La Barbara's records (such as, I believe, "Voice is the
> Original Instrument") where she does circular-breathed vocals by singing
> both while inhaling and exhaling.

I've heard Joan La Barbara do this on several recordings, but I wouldn't
call it circular breathing.  I'm a woodwind player, and I can't circular
breath, but I can sing a tone both inhaling and exhaling [anybody can],
I can also whistle both inhaling and exhaling; it's not really circular
breathing because the flow of air changes completely from one direction
to the other and back again; there is a break in the outward flow of
air, while in circular breathing, the outward flow of air remains
constant.

gg

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:35:36 -0600
From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit, Thursday

I stopped into the knit to purchase tickets on thurs night. I was listening
to a bit of the second set through closed doors. It sounded great, I
recognized the tune but cannot place the name or album it originated from.
I also noticed that the tv viewer was off in the ticket area, I inquired
about the lack of video feed with the guy working the booth. He said that
John was yelling at the sound man to turn off all recording devices and
video equip. Is this true, is John making all of these shows private
parties? I think that it is just an addition to the enigmatic circle around
zorn, he does it to piss people off, he does it because he can get away
with it. I hope he shuts everything down when I go see him tonight, it
would make it more special and unique. Shutting off all documenting
technology is an artistic statement as well, not allowing the music art to
exist outside of the moment is a very interesting statement, it throws
historians and catalogers into a tail spin. It is unfortunate, however,
that people out in Nebraska and Ohio cannot loggon and view these amazing
players in a extra special intimate four run show at the knit. You all will
just have to move to NYC, it is a small island but hey, we have highrises
to accomodate.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:39:28 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Buckethead's Colma

At 11:49 AM 4/30/98, Andy Marks wrote:
>Anybody know where I can order a copy of
>Buckethead's Colma, besides CyberOctave?
>They want $15.98 + $4.00 shipping, which
>seems a little steep for 1 CD. I've checked the
>usual places on-line (CDNOW, CD Connection,
>Forced Exposure, EAR-Rational), but none of them have it.
>
Unless you're a huge fan, I'd saw don't bother with this disc. I have it,
and it's really not that interesting, simple, kind of noodly acoustic
guitar tunes with hip hop beats. I'm starting to think that Buckethead,
left to his own devices, doesn't really have a lot to say.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:59:35 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Douglas Tapia)
Subject: Re: Buckethead's Colma

>Anybody know where I can order a copy of
>Buckethead's Colma, besides CyberOctave?
>They want $15.98 + $4.00 shipping, which
>seems a little steep for 1 CD. I've checked the
>usual places on-line (CDNOW, CD Connection,
>Forced Exposure, EAR-Rational), but none of them have it.
>
>-
I got my copy at (gasp) Tower Records.  It was even on sale.  Cost me
something like $13.00 plus tax.  I would think that Tower Online would have
this in stock.  That is, if you don't mind dealing with "the big T"  As for
me, I've admitted that I'm a junky and that I can always hook up at Tower,
if I'm willing to pay a lot more and deal with multiple pierced
tini-boopers.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:01:09 -0800
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada & Klezmer

Not to pick on whoever recently wrote:

>I also think that, certainly, JZ's decision to work in/around the klezmer
>genre would make it easier to come up with melodies - the harmonic minor
>scale lending itself quite well to a certain kind of sound.  Also, he
>wouldn't have to worry if his melodies, rather than sounding totaly fresh
>and new, sounded like klezmer...they're supposed to!

but here's one for the FAQ ('though it's more of a frequently assumed
answer than a frequently asked question):

Very few, if any, of the compositions for Masada show the direct influence
of klezmer music as such, though some of the improvisations (primarily
those by musicians who have played in klezmer groups) do.

The tunes are much more related to the traditions of Israeli folk music
than to those of Eastern European klezmer music.



Herb Levy
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:55:40 -0400
From: Glenn Lea <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada Snit

>
> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:47:19 -0400
> From: Jack Blanton <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit, Thursday
>
> At 08:23 PM 4/29/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >Well I see that there's no live broadcast again tonight of Masada.....is it
> >safe to assume that Zorn's being a dick about this?

From what others who were there have reported, he objected to rehearsals being
broadcast without the performers' knowledge -- this sounds like his
"punishment" to
whoever was doing that.  Or maybe he just wanted, as he said, to treat the locals
to a "private show".  Honestly, I can't blame him for either.

> For what we pay for his
> >CDs, and how many of them I'm sure a great deal of us own....its really
> >starting to make me wonder..

Oh please.  You buy a CD, you have the CD.  End of transaction.  Buy many, you
have many.    Ditto.  No artist "owes" you anything further.

Everybody's getting upset because a freebie got cut short?  *I'm* upset cuz I
missed the
whole thing since nobody posted anything to this list announcing the webcast.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:44:03 -0700
From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: circle breathing

>  and with circular breathing there is a point where no air is
> passing, outward bound, over your vocal chords, you would not be able to
> apply the technique to any sort of vocalisation.

not that they strictly count as 'vocalization' but consider some of the mouth
cavity sounds that say Phil Minton uses... I've always entertained a little
fantasy about someone utilizing vocal circular breathing with these kinds
of noises. it would be something to see.
- --



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:07:28 -0400
From: Troy Whitfield <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada KF broadcasts

Where are, or rather were, people watching these Masada sets from the
KF?

If they're something that Zorn has agreed about in advance of the shows,
that's one thing, but if they're being bootlegged, that's another.  Why
should he condone being abused in that way?

Anyway, I can't remember the last time I heard anyone complain that an
artist should make their concert performances freely available as a
matter of course.

Troy

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:49:24 -0400
From: Jack Blanton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada KF broadcasts

At 03:07 PM 4/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Where are, or rather were, people watching these Masada sets from the
>KF?
>
>If they're something that Zorn has agreed about in advance of the shows,
>that's one thing, but if they're being bootlegged, that's another.  Why
>should he condone being abused in that way?
>
>Anyway, I can't remember the last time I heard anyone complain that an
>artist should make their concert performances freely available as a
>matter of course.
>
>Troy
>
>-
>
>
>

Well, the knitting factory has been broadcasting all their mainstage
concerts for a while now (or at least the one's I have checked out).  So it
is not a bootleg (I assume) since the club is doing it.  It seems to be
their general policy, and is probabally not a bad one because:

The sound quality/experience is not good enough that if I were in NYC and
wanted to go to a show I would skip it for the internet broadcast, and if I
do get to NYC I am much more likely to check out a show there after hearing
what type of stuff they play.  I think it is good for the artists as well
since we can hear what they sound like, if they are good then we can buy
their music, its kind of like free advertising.

I am quite suprised that Zorn didn't know that this was happening, I mean
I've know about it for a while and I didn't have a video camera pointed at
me while performing.

Just my two cents.


Jack Blanton
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:45:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Newgarden <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Steve Smith's incredibly detailed account of befuddlement at the Roscoe Mitchell concert, NYC 4/27/98 aka 'Spazz At The Philharmonic'

I disagree.





- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:26:53 EDT
From: JonAbbey2 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98

wow, what a comprehensive review by Steve. I agree with the bulk of what he
said, but I'd like to add a few things.

<<Back in the days when jazz was brand new to me, the reference book I
trusted most (no doubt due to the title) was John Swenson's "Rolling
Stone Jazz Record Guide" >>

Me too. Did you ever notice that Bob Blumenthal got to review almost every
good artist in the book? I bought a lot of albums based on the miniscule,
sketchy opinions they offered up.

Concerning LRG, Steve said:
<<I can't say much more than that for me this piece was easily the low
point of the evening.  It seemed like little more than an exercise in
pointillistic frustration.>>

No argument here. It was incredibly disjointed and filled with full stops and
pauses for no apparent reason. Whenever one of the three musicians played an
interesting segment and I felt myself being drawn in a bit, it would abruptly
end. I felt like one of two things was occurring in this piece: either this
was Mitchell's conception of the piece in which case it was simply a
thoroughly incoherent (to my ears, anyway) composition. The other possibility
that occured to me was that Mitchell's original composition in 1978 was meant
to contain longer parts (which is what I seem to recall from the record) and
that Leo Smith wasn't up to playing those anymore so the other two musicians
altered what they were doing accordingly. Now, I easily could be completely
wrong on this, but from where I was sitting (just a few rows back, on Smith's
side), it looked like he was seriously laboring even with the short phrases he
played. Like I said, maybe I'm dead wrong; I hope that I am but this was a
possibility that occured to me at the time.

<<Obviously the sheer variety of tone and timbre all by itself would tend
to offer an improvement over the previous piece, but what "The Maze"
also brought to the mix was a loose but welcome feeling of structure and
order>>

One of the reasons I found The Maze more enjoyable than LRG was the
continuity. This was probably my favorite piece of the evening.

<<Once again some notes as to what Mitchell was exploring in "S II
Examples" would have been welcome, but the piece itself, far shorter
than the other two, was a fine little exploration of overtones,
microtones, breathy almost-tones, and other mostly quiet saxophone
noises by Ewart on sopranino, Jarman on soprano and Mitchell on alto.
At the time I was put in mind of the World Saxophone Quartet playing
Morton Feldman, but in retrospect, I think it falls somewhere between
Feldman and Tony Conrad at a low volume.>>

More than Feldman or Conrad, this piece reminded me of the Rova record where
they play a Terry Riley piece.

All in all, a pretty unfulfilling night. I won't miss many chances to see
these musicians play, but I'd much prefer to see them in settings where they
were less restrained by the material.

So who's going to Victoriaville besides me? It looks like the strongest lineup
of the three I've been to so far.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:50:02 EDT
From: JonAbbey2 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Evan Parker

In a message dated 4/28/98 11:53:42 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<>Speaking of Parker, has anyone heard the new ECM electro-acoustic CD?
>I'm interested in some input before shelling out $$ for this as it is
>rather expensive as an import.
>
>Alan Kayser
>

I bought it for $15 American plus s/h from Downtown.  I think it's just
GREAT.  I've listened to it several times this week alone, and intends
to put it down so I don't get sick of it.  It's an hour long and ranges
from the more "typical" P/G/L approach to a more "ambient" sensibility.
I wouldn't be one to judge, because I haven't seen this group live, but
more than half of the record seems to bear a very strong "ECM"/Steve
Lake-compatible recording aesthetic.  (See TIME WILL TELL for comparable
reverb/ambience.)
>>

The ECM record is fine and is worth it as the first recorded document of a
great band. I was lucky enough to see this band perform live (along with
Sainkho Namchymlak, at Victo in 1996). It's the only concert I've ever
attended where I felt like there was more happening than I could comprehend
and that I'd like to witness the whole thing again to get a better feel of
what I actually thought about it. For those of you who don't know, this band
consists of the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio plus Phil Wachsmann (I'm pretty sure
it's pronounced Woks-man, by the way) and two Italian musicians whose names
escape me right now at work. The latter three are each assigned one of the
Parker trio to sample live fragments from and then work them back into the
piece. Eventually this leads to so many lines flying around that it's hard to
keep track of what's happening, for me anyway.

Anyway, my main point was going to be that the just-released Parker record on
Leo with Noel Akchote and two electronic musicians, is his most successful of
his recent forays into electronically-altered improv. I'd recommend this over
the ECM record.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #348
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