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Zorn List Digest       Wednesday, April 29 1998       Volume 02 : Number 347



In this issue:
-
       Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98
       Masada at the Knit
       Re: arditti quartet / ligeti
       Re: Masada at the Knit
       Masada at KF
       JZ and religion
       Re:  Ware/Columbia
       Re: Masada at the Knit
       Why one should read all messages before replying
       Re: Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98
       circle breathing
       Masada at the Knit, Thursday
       Masada at the Knit, Thursday...redux.....
       Re: Masada at the Knit, Thursday

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:58:08 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98

Back in the days when jazz was brand new to me, the reference book I
trusted most (no doubt due to the title) was John Swenson's "Rolling
Stone Jazz Record Guide"   I had this in mind as I went into the concert
commemorating the 20th anniversary of Roscoe Mitchell's "LRG - The Maze
- - S II Variations," an LP released on Nessa in 1978, because I seem to
remember that that album was given a fairly poor rating, and oddly
enough, I found myself wondering if I would be carrying any negative
preconceptions into tonight's concert.  Nevertheless, having embraced
wholeheartedly all manner of avant garde music and in particular the
various idioms and voices of the A.A.C.M.'s first generation, I
certainly was not about to miss this all-star aggregation, reuniting
Roscoe Mitchell and Malachi Favors with Joseph Jarman for the first time
in years, in the company of no less than Wadada Leo Smith, George Lewis,
Douglas Ewart, Thurman Barker, Tani Tabbal, Gerald Cleaver and Vincent
Davis.

The Tribeca Performing Arts Center turns out to be a fine little
auditorium, with steep, stadium-style seating which gives every
ticketholder a clear seat.  (Wish I'd gone to hear one of the
conductions led by Butch Morris last week...)  I sat in the center near
the top to get a panoramic view of one of the most spectacular
amalgamations of percussion gear I've ever seen.  The crowd was small at
the beginning but continued to trickle in throughout the performance of
the first piece, the 30+ minute "LRG" for high brass, winds and low
brass.

I surmise that "LRG" stands for Leo, Roscoe and George.  Leo was
situated on one side of the stage with trumpet, European-style keyed
fluegelhorn, and a mute or two.  He played very little at any point in
the night, admittedly much to my disappointment.  Roscoe was in the
middle with a family of saxes from sopranino to bass, E-flat and B-flat
clarinets, flute, piccolo, wood flute and a lower-pitched member of the
recorder family.  George Lewis was on Roscoe's other side, with trombone
and Sousaphone.

I can't say much more than that for me this piece was easily the low
point of the evening.  It seemed like little more than an exercise in
pointillistic frustration.  But let me also mention that the A.A.C.M.
did no one any favors by not providing notes for the composition in the
program.  There may have been a compelling method behind the seemingly
pointless bleeps and burbles that passed from one player to another,
seldom in tandem.  But lacking those notes, all one heard was what I
described, and I'd be surprised to hear if anyone else found the piece
convincing.

The only real enjoyment to be had in this piece was the sheer
inventiveness of George Lewis, who is surely one of the top trombone
practitioners on this or any other planet.  He also employed a fairly
unique (well, I've never seen anyone else do it but most likely
everything's been done by this point!) technique of using a bassoon
double reed in both his trombone and Sousaphone at times, creating some
fascinating sounds.  Mitchell's part was perhaps most baffling of all --
a few notes on one horn, put it down, a few notes on another horn, put
it down, etc...

To be perfectly honest, robbed of a chance to understand what Roscoe was
trying to do in the piece (the only descriptive phrase in the program
was that all of the pieces were "sound collages based on the individual
vocabularies of the players") then I must label "LRG" an unsuccessful
piece of pure music.  I welcome rebuttal here by all means, from anyone
who knows the record or heard tonight's performance differently.

After the break, "The Maze" brought Mitchell, Jarman, Favors, Barker,
Ewart, Tabbal, Cleaver and Davis to the stage to man that awesome array
of percussion.  Roscoe's percussion cage is a one-man orchestra by
itself, and the others employed everything from balaphons and hand drums
to coffee cans and sheet metal, zithers to tuned gongs, washtubs to
mixing bowls.  Ewart brought on a few laughs with his two musical
crutches (literally speaking... they were standard issue broke-leg
crutches with shakers of different sorts suspended between the sides,
decked up shamanistically... the tools of the urban witchdoctor, no
doubt -- I might add as well that Ewart was the only facepainted member
of the troupe).

Obviously the sheer variety of tone and timbre all by itself would tend
to offer an improvement over the previous piece, but what "The Maze"
also brought to the mix was a loose but welcome feeling of structure and
order... it didn't seem as willfully random or obscure as "LRG" and to
this listener was packed with incident and a steady momentum despite
lacking a pulse.  I found myself put in mind of a meeting ground between
the stark sound poetry of "Ionisations" and the faux primitive music of
Cage's constructions, given a distinctly urban feel with the bells and
alarms.  This is a wonderful piece that could only have come from the
A.A.C.M.  That not everyone felt the same was made clear by the irate
listener who stormed out in the middle of the piece, muttering that it
was a travesty and that he could compose a better piece, and that he was
going to get a refund.  Hmmmm...

Once again some notes as to what Mitchell was exploring in "S II
Examples" would have been welcome, but the piece itself, far shorter
than the other two, was a fine little exploration of overtones,
microtones, breathy almost-tones, and other mostly quiet saxophone
noises by Ewart on sopranino, Jarman on soprano and Mitchell on alto.
At the time I was put in mind of the World Saxophone Quartet playing
Morton Feldman, but in retrospect, I think it falls somewhere between
Feldman and Tony Conrad at a low volume.  Those who know a great deal
more about the composers I've namechecked (Jon? Brian?) are welcome to
call me mad.  Interestingly, where "LRG" featured almost no ensemble
work, "S II" was purely an ensemble piece.

For the finale, everyone came out for a simultaneous collage of the
collage pieces.  There was more enjoyable percussion work from all, more
baffling silence and rare beautiful tones from Smith, more textural
amazement from Lewis, short saxophone bits from Jarman and Ewart from
the "S II" music (heard now in alternation rather than in unison), and a
brief reprise of Mitchell's saxophone stylings a la "LRG."   Witnessing
the sheer all-star firepower on stage but hearing the ping-ponging style
of the music, I mentally dubbed it "Spazz at the Philharmonic."  It was,
however, quite easy to hear the three distinct preceding compositions
witin the final collage.

After the concert, as the audience milled about and discussed the
concert, I was a little bit surprised to hear how many other people were
willing to admit an ambivalence or even an outright dislike of the
music... and this from some of the most openminded listeners I know!
The most frequently used word had to be "cerebral" and with that I would
certainly agree, at least for "LRG."  I saw a number of writers, but
more remarkably, I think I noticed more musicians at this show than
virtually any other show I've attended recently... Marion Brown, Noah
Howard, Jumma Santos, Anthony Coleman, Myra Melford, J.D. Parran, Kelvyn
Bell, and no doubt others.

As for me, despite all previously mentioned reservations and criticisms
I'm still considering myself awfully lucky to have been able to hear
this.  This was a stage full of amazing musicians, and I can't think of
any composer about whom I can say they've written nothing I dislike, so
if "LRG" struck me as a protracted misstep, at least the rest of the
program reminded me why so I love the Art Ensemble of Chicago (as much
by what the concert omitted as by what it included) and why Roscoe
Mitchell is a major musical figure of the late 20th century.  Long may
he continue to confuse, annoy, and, oh yes, delight us all.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]





- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:02:24 EDT
From: Tag Yr It <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada at the Knit

Greetings,

Was anyone receiving the second set of Masada Tuesday night? I got the first
set just fine, but after that, everything went dead....let me know of you have
a chance.

Thanks!

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:23:28 -0800
From: George Grella <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: arditti quartet / ligeti

Scott Handley writes:


> Pardon the blunder, but I lost the email(s) in the thread where
>       a few
>       people mentioned a 2CD Arditti String Quartet record w/ various
>       composers.  What's the label/title/etc?
>
>       Has anyone heard the 2CD opera by Ligeti on Wergo?  How do you
>       like it?
>       (There may be more than one;  can't remember title.)
>

There's a double CD set of Arditti playing "From Italy," Disque
Montaigne 789007.  But there's also 2 CDs of Arditti playing collected
works on Gramavision; they are titled "One" and "Two" but come
separately.  Same goes for the Elliot Carter string quartets they
recorded, one two separate Etcetera CDs.

The Ligeti opera is "Le Grand Macabre," Wergo 6170.  If you like Ligeti,
you'll like this, especially if you appreciate both his sense of humor
and his later, more idiomatic style.

gg


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:27:38 PDT
From: "Silent Watcher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit

>Was anyone receiving the second set of Masada Tuesday night? I got the
first
>set just fine, but after that, everything went dead....let me know of
you have
>a chance.

I'll tell you why...Right before the guys came out, someone covered the
cameras. When the group came out, Zorn declared the set the first
private party at the Knit in over a year.  No cameras, no recordings. He
told everyone with a recorder to turn them off. Probably the most I've
heard him talk in the 5 or 6 times I've seen him. Amazing set, though.

SW
For Sale/Want List and Laswell discography at
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:07:47 -0400
From: "Aaron Hertzmann" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada at KF

I saw Masada last night, second set at the Knitting Factory.  At the start of
the show, Zorn said: "this is the first private performance of Masada.  We've
covered up those fucking video cameras, so tonight's performance is just for
you.  Who does this fucking guy think he is, broadcasting the entire
performance over the Internet, for all to see, even our rehearsals, without
even telling the musicians?  Tapers, turn off your tape recorders tonight ---
this set is just for the people in this room!"   (The webcams were covered up
by cloth.)

After the first song, he pointed to one of the webcams and said: "let's take
off the cover!" and gave it the finger.

:)

(He didn't sound belligerent, just annoyed.)

Aaron

PS The show was ok --- I thought the last song and the encore were the best.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:16:52 -0600
From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: JZ and religion

When did John Zorn become heavily into Judiasm? It does not seem to be a
prevalent aspect in his music until masada and all it variations. If this
is completely redundant information pardon me, I have not consulted the
jz-faq.
JT

"Good design adds value of some kind,
     gives meaning, and, not incidentally,
           can be sheer pleasure to behold;
       it respects the viewer's sensibilities
               and rewards the entrepreneur"
                                                       P. Rand



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:57:52 EDT
From: WINRECORDS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Ware/Columbia

Quite honestly, what's the big deal? So, what if they DO end up dropping him a
few years from now (worst case senario.) At least he'll hopefully have a fair
amount of money to live off of until then (which probably would not have been
the case were he on an independent.) As long as material gets released in some
form or another, that's really the most important thing...not the label so
much.
One would hope artists are savvy enough these days to suss out a crap deal
when they see one. I can only hope that Mr. Ware is in control enough of his
own career
that this shouldn't be anyones concern but his own.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:12:12 -0400
From: Jack Blanton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit

At 12:02 PM 4/29/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>Was anyone receiving the second set of Masada Tuesday night? I got the first
>set just fine, but after that, everything went dead....let me know of you
have
>a chance.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Dale.
>
>-
>
>
>
I had the same problem which was terribly dissapointing.  As soon as it
happened I called them up (long distance no less) and they said they would
try to fix it, but that it might not have been a problem at the club but
with the connection somewhere else.  As you know the problem was not solved
as of about midnight last night.  Hopefully it will be up and working today
as I am really looking foreward to hearing more from the band.




Jack Blanton
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:14:51 -0400
From: Jack Blanton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Why one should read all messages before replying

Sorry for adding nothing about the concert last night.  I replied before
seeing the more relevant responses.  Does this mean that tonight's shows
will not be broadcast?


Jack Blanton
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 14:29:16 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98

Steve Smith wrote:

(First part of an excellently written review snipped)

>At the time I was put in mind of the World Saxophone Quartet playing
>Morton Feldman, but in retrospect, I think it falls somewhere between
>Feldman and Tony Conrad at a low volume.

One reason that such rarified music as that of Feldman and Conrad (to
take only two of many examples) works so well, IMHO, is that they have
been obsessed with a relatively (seemingly) small sonic area as an
avenue towards their larger expressive goal. By working it and working
it, they arrive at a richness that's surprisingly deep. The old
'universe in a grain of sand' adage holds up extremely well in this
era of Mandelbrot.

When many AACM alumni (not to pick on them, but just as an
example--there are many others) dip their toes into post-serialist
classical music of European derivation (or whatever you want to call
it--you know what I mean) I often feel that the results come out
half-baked. There are exceptions of course, much of Braxton's and
Lewis' work, but in Mitchell's case it seems to me to hold true almost
entirely (similarly with Muhal's work in the same genre). As opposed
to the "cerebral" comment you heard at the concert, I'd use the term
"academic" in the sense of being dry and lifeless; I wonder if someone
can draw a correlation between one's acceptance of a university post
and an increase in output tailored to the tastes of the
Babbitt/Wuorinen axis.

Roscoe's Space Ensemble work often bores me to tears, not because of
the sparseness of sound, but for how _non-committal_ it strikes me.
Throw the pretentiousness of Tom Buckner into the mix (vis. 'Words',
if I'm remembering the title correctly, on the Black Saint 'Sound and
Space Ensembles' recording--insert Simpsonesque shudder sound here)
and you have easily enough to drive me from the room. I'm just not
convinced Roscoe _really_ buys into this genre; at least, to these
ears, that's the way it sounds. Obviously, I could be 100% wrong, but
I hear nowhere near the same level of inspired obsession as I do in
Feldman, Conrad or, say, Lucier.

These carpings aside, Mitchell's 'Congliptious' remains firmly
embedded in my desert island satchel, followed closely by
'Old/Quartet', 'Snurdy McGurdy...', 'The Flow of Things' and others
(not to mention all the great AEC work.) I could listen to 'Tkhke' a
hundred times a day. Still wish I could've caught the show instead of
being laid up with the flu, including hearing 'LRG' if only to have a
fuller appreciation of Mitchell's oeuvre. He's worth more than a few
benefits of doubt.

My 3 cents.

Brian Olewnick

Listening to: Miles' 'Black Beauty'. Now, if Laswell had the guts, and
I'm sure he does, he should enlist Roscoe for his next post-fusion
Milesian project. Mmmmmm....




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:42:23 -0400
From: America OLivo <[e-mail]>
Subject: circle breathing

if anybody  has any information on circle breathing could you let me know. is
it possible to circle breath while throat singing or chanting? feel free to
email me privately if so desired. thanks
    jt

[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:23:41 EDT
From: Tag Yr It <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada at the Knit, Thursday

Well I see that there's no live broadcast again tonight of Masada.....is it
safe to assume that Zorn's being a dick about this? For what we pay for his
CDs, and how many of them I'm sure a great deal of us own....its really
starting to make me wonder....

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:27:47 EDT
From: Tag Yr It <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada at the Knit, Thursday...redux.....

...I obviously meant Wednesday......

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:47:19 -0400
From: Jack Blanton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit, Thursday

At 08:23 PM 4/29/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Well I see that there's no live broadcast again tonight of Masada.....is it
>safe to assume that Zorn's being a dick about this? For what we pay for his
>CDs, and how many of them I'm sure a great deal of us own....its really
>starting to make me wonder....
>
>Dale.
>
>-
>
>
>

Yes and no, in my opinion.  I can understand his position (at least what I
think his position is) that he doesn't want the performance of music in
forms he is unable to control to be disceminated all over, but on the other
hand, it is kind of 'dick'-ish.  I mean I live in Ohio and as a relatively
poor graduate student have no way of making it to NYC for a show.  So this
is my only way to have heard them live.  I've bought every Masada CD and
many other Zorn projects, so its not like he would be losing money.  In
fact, after hearing them live I am more inclined to go out and get other
projects by the members of the band.  So yea, I can sort of see where he's
coming from, but it is disapointing for me to not be able to revel in the
joy that is listening to the live performances.


Jack Blanton
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #347
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