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Zorn List Digest       Wednesday, April 29 1998       Volume 02 : Number 346



In this issue:
-
       Re: The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz
       Re: Evan Parker
       Re: Radical Jewish burping
       Evan Parker/David S. Ware
       Masada
       Columbia
       Odp: Sorry...
       Re: Columbia
       Re: Columbia
       Re: David ware/matt shipp/joe mcphee (was: columbia)
       Tomokawa/Mikami
       arditti quartet / ligeti
       Re: Columbia
       Re: David ware
       Re: Columbia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:38:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz

>      Noticed JZ referencing this piece in an interview culled, apparently,
>      from the CD issue of LOCUS SOLUS. Sounds like it might have been one
>      of his pieces from around the time of the Monk and Weill tributes,
>      when he first had access to a serious recording studio.
>
>      Anyone know if it has ever seen a smidgen of the light of day?

It's on the LOCUS SOLUS CD.

- -jascha


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:48:13 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Evan Parker

>>
>
>Speaking of Parker, has anyone heard the new ECM electro-acoustic CD?
>I'm interested in some input before shelling out $$ for this as it is
>rather expensive as an import.
>
>Alan Kayser
>

I bought it for $15 American plus s/h from Downtown.  I think it's just
GREAT.  I've listened to it several times this week alone, and intends
to put it down so I don't get sick of it.  It's an hour long and ranges
from the more "typical" P/G/L approach to a more "ambient" sensibility.
I wouldn't be one to judge, because I haven't seen this group live, but
more than half of the record seems to bear a very strong "ECM"/Steve
Lake-compatible recording aesthetic.  (See TIME WILL TELL for comparable
reverb/ambience.)

Nevertheless, the music is in charge here, and of the few examples of
Phil Wachsman's playing I've heard (GUSHWACHS, COWWS Quintet, LJCO,
...), this is the finest IMHO---period!

Is it Phil Wax-man, or Wahshman?

P.s. Does everybody interested in E. Parker know about the new
Parker/Guy/Lytton album coming out on Emanem?  It's live at Vortex 1996.
Sounds good!  (I haven't heard IMAGINARY VALUES yet, but this new one is
two LONG ASS performances and it sounds beautiful.  In keeping with
Emanem's usual standards, the information on their website is thorough,
concise, and wonderfully inclusive...and of course, self-promotional in
a friendly kind of way. Indie label family values!

http://members.aol.com/EmanemDisc

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:56:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Radical Jewish burping

> Are you implying that simply because many of the songs therein are
> beautiful in a traditional manner, that they must have been easy to
> compose? Or that because JZ produces these melodies in such profusion
> that they must pose no more difficulty to him than burping?

Thoughts -

I myself find it fiendishly difficult to just 'come up with' a melody as
simple and beautiful as, say, 'sippur' (off of 'issachar').

I also think that, certainly, JZ's decision to work in/around the klezmer
genre would make it easier to come up with melodies - the harmonic minor
scale lending itself quite well to a certain kind of sound.  Also, he
wouldn't have to worry if his melodies, rather than sounding totaly fresh
and new, sounded like klezmer...they're supposed to!  This would get rid
of the tricky problem of trying to make something which was at once
beautiful and also completely 'new'.  (I seem to remember this subject
popping up a long time ago on this list: how much sense does it make to
try and make somthing with no obvious ties to the music which came
before?)

Finally: even if the masada tunes are as easy as burping for JZ, there's
still the fact that *nobody else* is burping like him right now.  So: burp
on, John.

- -jascha



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:18:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Sedlak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Evan Parker/David S. Ware

>Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware.

>This is not a completely new affair.  About 5 years ago, I think, there
>was an album called FLIGHT OF i, jointly released by Columbia/DIW.

Flight of I occurred at a time when Columbia was licensing a number of DIW
records for US release.  The Art Ensemble of Chicago had a few released
stateside this way, as well as at least one fine David Murray record,
"Fast Life".  My understanding is that the Ware group has now been
offically "signed" as opposed to having selected records chosen for
license.




> > My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too.
> > The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind.  I
> > couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's.

> I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO
> much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me.
> Anyone else have thought son this?

There are some screechy scrawly solos on the Chicago Solo disc, but some
very beautiful ones as well.  It's interesting to hear him perform solo on
tenor, lending him a much more natural, breathy tone... which goes well
since he is often circular breathing.  Most of his solo performances are
on soprano... my faves of which are "Conic Sections" (AhUm), a solo track
on "Atlanta" (Impetus), and some cool duos with Steve Lacy "Chirps" (FMP).
Also, there is a really boss duo with Irene Schweitzer on "Elsie Jo"
(Maya). The duo with Braxton on Leo is also excellent, though the addition
of (Paul Rutherford?) on another Leo disc perhaps adds a bit too much
sonic baggage.

 Also recommended are the trio "Imaginary Values" (Maya) and "Breaths and
Heartbeats" (Rastascan- at a domestic price!), both of which cut out the
fat that appears on lenghty performances such as the "50th birthday
Performance"  Anything with Alexander von Schlippenbach on it (discs on
FMP and PoTorch) is also easily recommended.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:47:31 +0200
From: "Roger Langvik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada

"So, until every other downtown wannabe starts producing stuff the
caliber of the Masada songbook, I'm quite willing to give old Zorno the
benefit of the doubt."

Brian Olewnick

Did you say "Masada songbook" is those pieces released in printed form?

I just noticed and I am agreeing with Brian on this....
I'm a composer and writing something beutiful is the hardest thing to do
EVERYTHING has to be perfekt from melodies to orchestrating.
Things have to be just right .............and then they all must play
beutifuly,,;
and break our harts.

and that doesn't happen often ,but when it does...

Roger

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:08:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Columbia

Does anyone have any more info on the latest debacle here? I'd read about
the Ware signing, but not about the Threadgill difficulties.

Patrice, do you know what exactly they declined to release? At any rate,
it seems to confirm the long-standing observation that Columbia likes to
keep one (and ONLY one) "outside" artist in stock. Ugh.

On another note, let me warmly recommend the Evan Parker disc on ECM. Not
wanting to revive the ECM debate from a few weeks back, I can affirm that
there is little "toning down" of Parker's approach and quite a bit of
interesting development for this great artist.

Jason Bivins


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:16:08 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Sorry...

> Sorry, I meant to send that necro spam to a friend
>of mine in the UK.
>I hit the wrong address in my list.
>Didn't mean to offend anyone, except for him of course.
>
>Humble Apologies,
>
>[e-mail]


You don't have to apologize, everybody has small secrets...
Some like bondage, some dead girls...

The "Honest Zorn-List Message of the Week" award goes to Chad.
Applause please!

:-)   :-)   :-)

       ____________________________________________________________________
       Artur Nowak
       www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:50:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Columbia

> > Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware.  I wonder what
> > hey're going to do with him?  They just dropped Threadgill, andthought
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Did they, really? I know that they refused to put out some of his music,
> but is his contract with them over?

I read an article about this in a stereo magazine that one of my friends
had.  I just remember him taling about the Flute ForceFour CD with James
Newton on Black Saint, but how he didn't care about making records so
much.  He did say that he wanted to record a big band that he has that
operates out of Italy (?).

I found an unopened copy of his last CD in the free box at a record store-
this major label thing has a funny effect- there are so many more promo
cut-outs that lots of people just get those, as some people just don't
know who these folks are.  So that helps the fans save money, I guess
that's the only real benefit.  But then they go out of print

Funny that they would choose David Ware, who seems to be disliked by quite
a few of the people who actuallly do know who he is, more so than most in
this field.  I and a lot of other folks were pretty turned off by his
appearance in Chapel Hill, NC- most of the good parts came when he stepped
off of the stage and let Shipp, Parker, and Ibarra play.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:17:33 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Columbia

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:50:48 -0400 (EDT)  William York wrote:
>
>
> > > Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware.  I wonder what
> > > hey're going to do with him?  They just dropped Threadgill, andthought
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Did they, really? I know that they refused to put out some of his music,
> > but is his contract with them over?
>
> I read an article about this in a stereo magazine that one of my friends
> had.  I just remember him taling about the Flute ForceFour CD with James
> Newton on Black Saint, but how he didn't care about making records so
> much.  He did say that he wanted to record a big band that he has that
> operates out of Italy (?).

Here is an excerpt from an interview that Threadgill gave to epulse! of
March 13, 1998:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
epulse: What new recording material are you working on now?

Threadgill: Nothing at the moment because of what happened with Columbia. I
had a great album for them and they chickened out. It's a 21-piece dance
band. The young people in Europe go crazy for it. It's the killingest
thing. We play my compositions for the most part. It's music to dance to,
funky stuff and everything, but there ain't no formulas. We cover
everything. But Columbia chickened out. They dropped the ball on that one.
But recording that band isn't as important to me as its live life. I also
had a new Make a Move album ready to go. I didn't hear about Columbia not
wanting to do it until I returned from India with the new project ready to
rehearse.

epulse: Does that bother you?

Threadgill: I wasn't hurt, but I was dispirited. Funny thing is, if you
came up to me and asked me to make a record, I wouldn't do it. I couldn't
do it. I might be tempted because of the money, but recordings just flow
out of me without being planned. That's what happened with this new
material, which will probably never get recorded now.

epulse: Why not? Isn't it important for you to have your work documented on
record?

Threadgill: Look, record companies are not that damn important to me. I'm
telling you, I wouldn't be disappointed if I didn't make records. As long
as I can perform and make a good living at it, I don't have to record. I'm
not thinking about how posterity remembers me. I don't care.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Patrice

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:24:51 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David ware/matt shipp/joe mcphee (was: columbia)

>Funny that they would choose David Ware, who seems to be disliked by
quite
>a few of the people who actuallly do know who he is, more so than most
in
>this field.  I and a lot of other folks were pretty turned off by his
>appearance in Chapel Hill, NC- most of the good parts came when he
stepped
>off of the stage and let Shipp, Parker, and Ibarra play.

This is really strange, but true.  It seems like critics and honest
appreciates all over the place don't like Ware.  I bought FLIGHT OF I
and CRYPTOLOGY and remember loving the rhythm section and being
powerhoused by Ware, but I was just easing into this side of the music
at that point (and "insect improv" was light years away, and naked City
was all Zorn was to me, etc etc).  I haven't listened to ware in a
while, but I will soon.  I AM curious what you guys (and gals) think.

Also, what matt Shipp albums does everyone like?  I've got my eye on
BEFORE THE WORLD, BY THE LAW OF MUSIC, FLOW OF X, and MULTIPLICATION
TABLE, among others.

And what are the thoughts on the new McPhee hatology solo record?  I
myself am a fan, even though the tenor vibrato (see: Ware, Gayle, and
Ayler) is not really my thing.  I try to get over that little hang-up,
though...I guess in my experience it hasn't paid off to be too proud of
my "aesthetic", or what-you-will. I'm trying to get into punk and
_______ Wave, but I feel lost, like I missed something.  Same deal.  But
I saw McPhee play in Houston and Austin wand it was really beautiful,
and I got the SWEET FREEDOM album w/ Lisle Ellis and Paul Plimley and
that kicks ass.  And ALL of you who haven't heard the Hatart record
TOPOLOGY: you guys need it bad.  Strings, and guitar noise, and
pre-Bloodcount melodies, and free-blowing, and catharsis...what a great
great record!


Ay yai yai!  Enuff!

SH



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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:36:18 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tomokawa/Mikami

I was browsing through the P.S.F. catalog at Forced Exposure and
stumbled across a bunch of albums by Kazuki Tomokawa and Kan Mikami,
both of whom I've never heard but had some descriptions which really
appealed to me. Can anyone recommend which discs are the best to get by
these guys? There are about 8 or 9 each. Thanks!

                -Tom Pratt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:54:30 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: arditti quartet / ligeti

Pardon the blunder, but I lost the email(s) in the thread where
      a few
      people mentioned a 2CD Arditti String Quartet record w/ various
      composers.  What's the label/title/etc?

      Has anyone heard the 2CD opera by Ligeti on Wergo?  How do you
      like it?
      (There may be more than one;  can't remember title.)

      Thanks.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:24:23 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Columbia

William York wrote:

> Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware.  I wonder what
> hey're going to do with him?  They just dropped Threadgill [snip]

Threadgill was sacked by the regime that's since left the building; I heard
rumors of this as long ago as last summer (which was actually when "Where's
Your Cup?" first appeared) but didn't see any confirmation until the issue of
E-Pulse that Patrice shared.

Ware, on the other hand, had already finished recording his second album for
AUM Fidelity when Branford Marsalis, new "creative consultant" for Columbia's
jazz department (meaning he's making the recommendations as to who gets
signed), signed Ware to the label and took the record for Columbia (your eyes
do not deceive you).  Ware was apparently Branford's top priority.

Yes, it's true that David has had a disc on Columbia before, as someone
mentioned - "Flight of i" on DIW/Columbia with Matt Shipp, William Parker,
and wasn't it Marc Edwards?  But it was a one-off situation... Columbia
didn't pick up any further Ware releases even though "Third Ear Recitation,"
I'm told, was in most ways superior to "Flight."

But I agree, it's a shame about Threadgill, especially given the f@#$in'
killing big band he's bringing to the Texaco Fest... wonder if that's the
outfit he mentions in the E-Pulse interview?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

Shillgard (TM):  Part of my daytime job involves saying nice things about
some Columbia releases.  All of the above therefore consists only of factual
data.  Except for that last part about Threadgill.  That's my opinion, baby.
Good night.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:17:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David ware

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Scott Handley wrote:

> I myself am a fan, even though the tenor vibrato (see: Ware, Gayle, and
> Ayler) is not really my thing.  I try to get over that little hang-up,
> though...

i think that appreciating ware may have a lot to do with understanding
where he comes from.  he is *definitely* a full-on, gutbucket,
energy-sound tenor player in the tradition of ayler and late, late
coltrane - lots of circular breathing, skronking and muscular, low riffing.
as i've said before on the zorn-list, i think the guy is absolutely great
(definitely not for every taste...) and i would go see him again in a
second.

b

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:18:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Columbia

On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote:

>
> Threadgill was sacked by the regime that's since left the building; I heard
> rumors of this as long ago as last summer (which was actually when "Where's
> Your Cup?" first appeared) but didn't see any confirmation until the issue of
> E-Pulse that Patrice shared.

So potentially when "this" regime "leaves the building" (as happens with
regularity in the majors), the next set of execs will compare Ware's and
Grover Washington's sales and give him (Ware) his walking papers too.

The spirit of Clive Davis -- who gave Ornette, Keith Jarrett, Bill Evans
(and I forget who else) -- the boot one afternoon because they weren't
megastars still pervades all the majors. Like commercial radio they're
pushing "product" not music.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]







>
> Ware, on the other hand, had already finished recording his second album for
> AUM Fidelity when Branford Marsalis, new "creative consultant" for Columbia's
> jazz department (meaning he's making the recommendations as to who gets
> signed), signed Ware to the label and took the record for Columbia (your eyes
> do not deceive you).  Ware was apparently Branford's top priority.
>
> Yes, it's true that David has had a disc on Columbia before, as someone
> mentioned - "Flight of i" on DIW/Columbia with Matt Shipp, William Parker,
> and wasn't it Marc Edwards?  But it was a one-off situation... Columbia
> didn't pick up any further Ware releases even though "Third Ear Recitation,"
> I'm told, was in most ways superior to "Flight."
>
> But I agree, it's a shame about Threadgill, especially given the f@#$in'
> killing big band he's bringing to the Texaco Fest... wonder if that's the
> outfit he mentions in the E-Pulse interview?
>
> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]
>
> Shillgard (TM):  Part of my daytime job involves saying nice things about
> some Columbia releases.  All of the above therefore consists only of factual
> data.  Except for that last part about Threadgill.  That's my opinion, baby.
> Good night.
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #346
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