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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, April 28 1998        Volume 02 : Number 345



In this issue:
-
       Improvising Vancouver
       Re: Re[3]:Cobra
       Evan Parker (was Re: Weird Little Boy)
       Re: Evan Parker (was Re: Weird Little Boy)
       Re: Improvising Vancouver
       Weird Little Boy
       Re: necrophilia
       Re: Improvising Vancouver
       Re: your mail
       Sorry...
       Re: Evan Parker
       Re: Frisell/Baron in the Zorn listserv
       Columbia
       Re: Jenkins' Big Fights Series
       hassell
       Re: Evan Parker
       Re: Columbia
       Re: Columbia
       Re: Columbia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:09:31 -0400
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette <[e-mail]>
Subject: Improvising Vancouver

Two short questions: is the John Oswald playing sax with Henry Kaiser on
the "Improvising Vancouver" CD on Incus the same person as the
'plunderphonics' John Oswald?  And is "Improvising Vancouver" an
interesting recording?

Bruno

R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D.
Professeur titulaire
=46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive
Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke
Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec
J1K 2R1
=20



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:13:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra

I don't intend to run this into the ground, but  .  .  .

On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> My statement above does not apply with masters of improvisation that are so
> well documented on records that playing with them for the first time could
> hardly be called a... blind date.

Some excellent performances on later Company records involve players
this couldn't apply to because they were either not well known to each
other or had no prior public experience as free players.  But I like the
term "blind date" for this sort of improv setting. and I'll be sure to use
it in the future. 8^)

Chris Hamilton


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:43:57 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Evan Parker (was Re: Weird Little Boy)

> My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too.
> The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind.  I
> couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's.
>
> Chris Hamilton

I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO
much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me.
Anyone else have thought son this?

Out of what I have, I would pick MOST MATERIALL (w/Prevost), NATIVES AND
ALIENS (w/Guy, Lytton & Crispell) and CONIC SECTIONS (solo soprano) to
be my favorites.

                                -Tom Pratt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:18:48 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Evan Parker (was Re: Weird Little Boy)

On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:43:57 -0400  Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> > My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too.
> > The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind.  I
> > couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's.
> >
> > Chris Hamilton
>
> I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO
> much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me.
> Anyone else have thought son this?
>
> Out of what I have, I would pick MOST MATERIALL (w/Prevost), NATIVES AND
> ALIENS (w/Guy, Lytton & Crispell) and CONIC SECTIONS (solo soprano) to
> be my favorites.

If you don't have them, you should also check the duos with Paul Lytton
from the early '70s. Fortunately, Emanem has released original sessions
from that era. Even 25 years after, it looks weird. Also, I found it
fascinating to see how Parker has evolved.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:42:31 -0500
From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Improvising Vancouver

R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote:
>=20
> Two short questions: is the John Oswald playing sax with Henry Kaiser o=
n
> the "Improvising Vancouver" CD on Incus the same person as the
> 'plunderphonics' John Oswald?=20

Yes, thats the same John Oswald. He has been an improvising Saxophonist
since long before samplers were invented, and he's been working with
Henry for 20 years.

Rich

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:21:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Benton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Weird Little Boy

Just for the record (and I think this applies to both the original "How is
this album?" question as well as the current discussion it's turned into),
Trey Spruance (guitarist on WLB) is apparently pretty ashamed of this
album and referred to it on the CV-list as, if my memory serves me
correctly, "improv at its worst".  Take that how you will...



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:25:32 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Jon Mooneyham)
Subject: Re: necrophilia

> chad edwards <[e-mail]>
>1. Why would anyone choose to have sex with a corpse?
[snippage]

Um, I know this list is pretty wide-ranging insofar as topics go,
but honestly, what the fug??

Jon M.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:36:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Improvising Vancouver

Not 100% sure, but considering Oswald plays alto sax with the CCMC=20
featuring Michael Snow (piano); Paul Dutton (voice) and others who play=20
every week in Toronto and did a gig at FIMAV last year I'm 99% sure it is.

By the by, when Sonic Youth play Toronto next month, CCMC will be the=20
opening act.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]




On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?R=3DE9mi?=3D Bissonnette wrote:

> Two short questions: is the John Oswald playing sax with Henry Kaiser on
> the "Improvising Vancouver" CD on Incus the same person as the
> 'plunderphonics' John Oswald?  And is "Improvising Vancouver" an
> interesting recording?
>=20
> Bruno
>=20
> R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D.
> Professeur titulaire
> Facult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive
> Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke
> Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec
> J1K 2R1
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -
>=20
>=20

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:47:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: your mail

WHAT IS THIS CRAP?






On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, chad edwards wrote:

>
>
> 1. Why would anyone choose to have sex with a corpse?
>
> Well, I don't know about you but I've always had a
> fear of rejection. From the very
> first time I sunk into naked, dead flesh, I knew I
> would always find a taker if I stayed
> with this crowd. Suddenly I could have any woman I
> wanted, regardless of age, size, or
> social status. The only thing was she had to be dead.
> A small price to pay for so much
> top-notch tail!
>
>
>
> 2. Does the stage of decay affect the sensation?
>
> This is truly a difficult question. A fresh dead body
> is just like having sex with a real
> live girl (only colder) but for a couple of weeks
> before the real decay begins, you're
> going to have your work cut out for you. Rest assured
> though, that the benefits far
> outweigh the extra work it takes to get in there!
> Then, however, as heavy decay
> progresses, it becomes easier and easier to get in --
> Although at this stage, I must
> advise that it doesn't feel very good at all and you
> run the risk of getting sick from
> corpse germs.
>
>
>
> 3. Isn't necrophilia illegal?
>
> Yes, the world over. However, there are up sides: For
> instance, a necrophilia charge
> cancels out a statutory rape charge! Try THAT with a
> still-alive girl!
>
>
>
> 4. Isn't necrophilia immoral?
>
> It depends on your religion. Right now the
> Bolshnavanian Orthodox faith is the only
> religion that not only approves of, but encourages
> necrophilia as well as countless
> other deviant sexual practices.
>
>
>
> 5. How can I find out if necrophilia is for me?
>
> If you're a normal male with healthy urges,
> necrophilia is not for you. If you are an
> angry loner, or a widower, or a liberal democrat, or
> just completely off your nut... Give
> it a try!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:57:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: chad edwards <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sorry...

 Sorry, I meant to send that necro spam to a friend
of mine in the UK.
I hit the wrong address in my list.
Didn't mean to offend anyone, except for him of course.

Humble Apologies,

[e-mail]



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:42:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Evan Parker

Parker/Sainko has its good points. I own it, but I find I can't listen to
more than one of the tracks at a time. Other excellent Parker discs
are 50th Birthday Concert on Leo and Imaginary Values on Maya.

Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree








On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

>
> On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:43:57 -0400  Tom Pratt wrote:
> >
> > > My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too.
> > > The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind.  I
> > > couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's.
> > >
> > > Chris Hamilton
> >
> > I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO
> > much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me.
> > Anyone else have thought son this?
> >
> > Out of what I have, I would pick MOST MATERIALL (w/Prevost), NATIVES AND
> > ALIENS (w/Guy, Lytton & Crispell) and CONIC SECTIONS (solo soprano) to
> > be my favorites.
>
> If you don't have them, you should also check the duos with Paul Lytton
> from the early '70s. Fortunately, Emanem has released original sessions
> from that era. Even 25 years after, it looks weird. Also, I found it
> fascinating to see how Parker has evolved.
>
>     Patrice.
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:34:27 -0700
From: "Patrick Stockton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frisell/Baron in the Zorn listserv

> So Patrick!  Did you make it to the Frisell/Baron show on Saturday
> night?  I saw both the Frisell/Baron and the 'Train' lineup here in
> Seattle this month and enjoyed both tremendously.  The Frisell/Baron
> show last week took a little more work to listen to though ...
> What did you think?
>
> - Dave
>
> --
> Replies?  Remove the 'not' from my reply address.

yes i did. i actually saw them twice that day.  at 5pm they played at music
millenium, a pretty good record store in NW portland.  then at 830 they
played the scheduled show.  it was a great show!  the venue is small, about
50 people not including the balcony which was closed.  i saw bill there a
while back with the Quartet lineup.  The place is old with lots of
character, as it was once the longest running porn theater in the US. and i
believe the building still holds the record.  anyway about the music....

This was the first tiome i had ever seen joey baron live, so i was really
focusing on him.  he is the best drummer i have ever seen, better than
dejohnette in my opinion, who was formerly considered by me to be the best
living drummer.  joey is so versatile.

the best aspec tof the performance though was that they were having so much
fun.  they were laughing and toying with each other.  also their chemistry
was perfect, probably due to so many years playing together.  you are right
it does take a little more effort to listen to.  mostly becasue frisell
really takes the supporting role for baron's exquisite brush and rim work.
playing stands and cymbal nuts more than skins at some points, baron really
expanded the nature and function of the drums in a duo.  i always sort of
chuckled when rock drummers would play with their hands but dropping the
sticks in baron's world opened up entirely new timbres and even tones (by
bending the skin).

another interesting aspect of the show was their composition choices.  it
did not even occur to me until the 1st encore, when someone shouted out a
request, that they were not playing any compositions from any of their
recorded albums.  someone requested "have a little faith", and bill
responded by explaining they were just playing tunes without a set list,
but they were not playing any of their own tunes.  for some strange reason
i had just sat through two and a half hours of compositions i had never
heard before, or if i had, they were arranged so differently (i.e. joey
playing the melody or the rhythm thereof, on the drums, similar to "Alfie"
on bacharach), that i could not recognize them, but it seemed as though i
was listening to familiar music.  very bizarre feeling.

great, great performance.  if they come your way i would not hesitate to
go.  do not condemn frisell if you do not appreciate "gone just like
train", he is one of the greatest guitarist/composers around who plays with
the best musicians.  consider "gone just like train" to be as musically
adventurous as the first halves of zorn's naked city-naked city, and naked
city radio.  not everything these guys do is going to be extremely avant
garde.  but everything they do is going to have that particular language or
accent or sound, however you want to describe it, that makes it appealing
to fans of said composers work.

patrick in portland

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:20:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Columbia

Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware.  I wonder what
hey're going to do with him?  They just dropped Threadgill, and I thought
they could have at least made a video for one of his songs or something
since there were some backbeats.  No really, what do they think is going
to happen to these people who they can't sell and don't promote- Ornette,
Tim Berne, Threadgill, etc.  I guess they get a tax write-off or
something.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:46:55 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jenkins' Big Fights Series

I have no particular opinion on whether it's more helpful to describe
the Zorn - Previte duets as "fighting", "arguing" or "conversing": I
have listened a few times to the record, or 1-27 anyway (is there
more?) but wasn't too wowed.  My point was actually only this: that
Jenkins uses a pre-defined cut off point, specifically a three minute
bell, and I thought, from the sleeve note?, that the Zorn Previte's
maybe used the same (only, one minute or two)

That said, I WAS impressed by the enthusiasm that someone expressed
for the concept (like so many ideas, it's what you might be able to
make of it; ie there's little doubt that most pairs of musicians, if
asked first to converse, then to argue, then to fight, would play
different sounding stuff, and probably one could even tell which was
which; though that might reflect cliches, ... but there's little
sense, I suppose in imagining that these ideas should impose
restraints ...)

Sean

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:17:36 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: hassell

anyone know how to get the Hassell remix/compilation cd "the vertical
collection" on Earshot? i think it's only via mail order...

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:30:01 -0400
From: Alan E Kayser <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Evan Parker

Ken Waxman wrote:

> Parker/Sainko has its good points. I own it, but I find I can't listen
> to
> more than one of the tracks at a time. Other excellent Parker discs
> are 50th Birthday Concert on Leo and Imaginary Values on Maya.
>
> Ken Waxman
> cj649@torfree
>
> On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>

Speaking of Parker, has anyone heard the new ECM electro-acoustic CD?
I'm interested in some input before shelling out $$ for this as it is
rather expensive as an import.

Alan Kayser


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:20:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Columbia

While he's long gone from there, I'm sure the spirit of Clive Davis still
pervades at CBS/Sony. In his autobiography Davis said he signed people
like Ornette Coleman not because they sold (m)any records, but because
they gave the label prestige.

I forget which rock or fusion group Davis cited as "signable" when he
pointed out that Ornette and Miles were on board, but that sort of
misplaced snobism seemed to work for both parties. (I guess, "I'm signed
to CBS the home of Ornette, so my music must be avant garde too.")

That's what the signed of Ware, Threadgill, Berne etc. does for the label.

Then after a while when the accounts point out that all the avant
gardists together don't sell as many copies as one Michael Jackson album,
the label drops 'em. But by reissuing the product when it feels like it,
the major still gets reflected prestige.

Cynical as always


Ken Waxman
[e-mail]









On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, William York wrote:

> Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware.  I wonder what
> hey're going to do with him?  They just dropped Threadgill, and I thought
> they could have at least made a video for one of his songs or something
> since there were some backbeats.  No really, what do they think is going
> to happen to these people who they can't sell and don't promote- Ornette,
> Tim Berne, Threadgill, etc.  I guess they get a tax write-off or
> something.
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:50:31 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Columbia

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:20:48 -0400 (EDT)  William York wrote:
>
> Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware.  I wonder what
> hey're going to do with him?  They just dropped Threadgill, and I thought
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Did they, really? I know that they refused to put out some of his music,
but is his contract with them over?

> they could have at least made a video for one of his songs or something
> since there were some backbeats.  No really, what do they think is going
> to happen to these people who they can't sell and don't promote- Ornette,
> Tim Berne, Threadgill, etc.  I guess they get a tax write-off or
> something.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:34:57 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Columbia

>Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware.

This is not a completely new affair.  About 5 years ago, I think, there
was an album called FLIGHT OF i, jointly released by Columbia/DIW.  I
think Matt Shipp and Whit Dickey were on it.  I have it but haven't
listened to it in a long time.  Not sure if this has happened to any
other records.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #345
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