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Zorn List Digest        Sunday, April 26 1998        Volume 02 : Number 343



In this issue:
-
       Re: Max Roach Quartet
       Re: Recent Goodies
       Re: knitting factory
       Recent Goodies:  Fushitsusha, Braxton
       gustaffson (was re: goodies)
       Dark River
       Re: Recent Goodies
       Re:Cobra
       Re: Recent Goodies
       Re: Weird Little Boy
       Re: Weird Little Boy
       Re: gustaffson (was re: goodies)
       Re: gustaffson (was re: goodies)
       Re: avant/DIW
       NYC bound
       Re: Re[3]:Cobra

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:40:46 -0500
From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Max Roach Quartet

Snap wrote:
>
> Would anyone know, by chance, of a hardbop piece by the Max Roach Quartet in
> which Mr. Roach projects a frenetic drum solo/ostinato over snippets of a
> Martin Luther King Jr. speech?

It's on a Columbia album called Chattahoochie Red from 1981.

James Hale


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:54:09 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies

Brian Olewnick wrote:
>
> Coupla new things and three that have been on my list for a while:
>
> AMM--Newfoundland

I was finally able to take them off the top of my "gotta hear soon" list
too by getting THE CRYPT and the AMM III disc (Rowe/Prevost). I think
these are the two most different-from-standard-AMM recordings out there.
The Crypt is quite good but incredibly noisy (can't listen to it often)
and I think AMM III is pretty lousy (Rowe in more standard guitar form
than prepared tabletop). I did get SUPERSESSION a little while back
which is sort of a meeting of the classic groupings of AMM and the
Parker/Guy/Lytton trio (lineup=Rowe/Prevost/Parker/Guy). Super disc! One
of those groupings where every player is serving the purpose of a truly
collective sound. Great stuff! though only clocking in at under 40 min.

> Derek Bailey/Joelle Leandre--No Waiting  Pretty nice, Bailey in fine
> form. I'm still not convinced by Leandre's playing. Her sound seems
> lacking in individuality and richness to these ears. I've heard her in
> several contexts now (though never as 'leader') and nothing's really
> stood out. Any suggestions?

Though I haven't heard it, her duo with violinist Carlos Zingaro on In
Situ could very well be incredible. It's been on my "should get soon"
list for a while. I love Zingaro's solo disc on that same label though
the recording is a bit echoey - an incredible player! There's also a new
HatArt disc by Urs Leimgruber, Joelle Leandre & Fritz Hauser which I
should get. I really liked Leimgruber's previous disc on that label with
this same lineup except Adelhard Roidinger on bass. Not anti-coherent
like a lot of free-improv... Roidinger has a very similar tone to Dave
Holland. Anyone heard Leimgruber's solo stuff? I know he is
well-documented as a solo performer.

> Mats Gustaffson--Parrot Fish Eye  My first Gustaffson and I'll have to
> withhold judgment on his playing, not knowing if this is a typical
> outing. I get more a sense of technical exercises than deep, rich
> musicality here, a common problem I find with a lot of younger free
> players (sometimes referred to a borahbergmanitis), but I'd be
> interested in hearing him in other contexts.

I just got my first Gustafsson a couple weeks ago which was "Mouth
Eating Trees And Related Activities' with Barry Guy and Paul Lovens on
OkkaDisk. I was really impressed with Gustafsson! He's incredibly
expressive and has some great bleating and tongue clucking ability. He
literally blurs the line between voice and instrument. I had to order a
couple more by him... (haven't heard Parrot Fish Eye though). I think
his style would have particular appeal to Zorn fans.

> Iannis Xenakis--Kraanerg  This is the Etcetera recording, not the DJ
> Spooky version (anyone care to compare the two?). Somewhat less
> elemental and earth-shattering than I'd been led to believe, but it does
> build up a head of steam. To me, the recording seems flat and even
> fluctuating at times, though perhaps thats part of the original taped
> portion of the score.

I haven't heard this version but the DJ Spooky version is VERY full
sounding.

> Luc Ferrari     "       "       "

Anyone have this one yet? Anyone know if his soundtrack to "Chronopolis"
is available on CD?

                -Tom Pratt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:33:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: William R Baker <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: knitting factory

 next week will be my first trip to the knit
 and I was wondering what they do as far as
 recording devices go.
 is it simply not allowed?
 unchecked?
 can you get by if you plan well?
 or
 do they frisk you at the door?

thanks,
bacos


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:54:34 -0400
From: "David J. Keffer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent Goodies:  Fushitsusha, Braxton

Hello Folks on the Zorn-list,

I have heard the new Fushitsusha on Charnel Music, "Gold Blood"
and will contribute a review.  It's a recording from
a live performance in San Francisco in November, 1996.
The sound on "Gold Blood" is pure Fushitsusha.
It's middle of the road density for Fushitsusha--not as
noisy as "The Caution Appears" but without the quiet sections on
the PSF untitled double live discs, PSF 15~16.
"Gold Blood" is a 72-minute snippet from the performance.  I say snippet
because the performance must have been longer than 70 minutes.
As Keiji Haino said in an interview with Jon Abbey, "We need three
hours."  (http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/text/hk_int1.html)
I saw Fushitsusha play in the same month (in Chicago) and they played
three hours.  In Chicago, they were apparently allotted about 2 hours for
their
slot (third in a lineup of 5 bands, I think) so they played a 45
minute sound check before the opening band, then played 2 hours and 15
minutes in their slot. What would really make the world a better place
is a video of the Fushitsusha performance at the Chicago show, the
third night of the table of the elements festival # 2.  Haino
had some both mesmerizing and amusing visual theatrics at that show.
Anyway, the sound quality on "Gold Blood" is straight from the mixer,
so the crowd noise is absent, which is a plus, since the last Fushitsusha
live release, "Purple Trap" on Blast First/Disobey has an abysmal sound
quality.  The music on "Purple Trap" is fantastic but the constant
conversation of patrons in the bar is prominent in the mix.
Lastly, "Gold Blood" has, as always, great titles to the tracks, like:
1.  The halation born between you and I who were doomed to appear in form
4.  If I had been showered in gold blood, wouldn't my prayer have been
answered?
5.  This trembling in my core, with which of your cells couldn't it hold
hands!
Now really lastly, "Gold Blood" is the first Fushitsusha release on a
North American Label, so the price in the U.S. is low, relative to the
Japanese
and European imports.

The other recording I picked up is Anthony Braxton's "5 Pieces 1975"
[with Braxton (saxophones, clarinets, and flutes), Kenny Wheeler (trumpet),
Dave Holland (bass), and Barry Altschul (drums)] at a used record store
in Knoxville, Tennessee.  It's a nice blend of Jazz and free improv.

David K.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:20:54 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: gustaffson (was re: goodies)

>Mats Gustaffson--Parrot Fish Eye  My first Gustaffson and I'll have to
>withhold judgment on his playing, not knowing if this is a typical
>outing. I get more a sense of technical exercises than deep, rich
>musicality here, a common problem I find with a lot of younger free
>players (sometimes referred to a borahbergmanitis), but I'd be
>interested in hearing him in other contexts.


Just 1.5 cents, for the record:

I heard most of a friend's Gryffsgryffsgryffsgryys (Marilyn Crispell,
Gustafsson, Barry Guy, Raymond Strid--MUSIC & ARTS, 1997?) and was
REALLY impressed.  I also saw him solo live and it was the BOMB.  I own
PARROT FISH EYE and don't like it.  There are semireliable rumors that
Okka will soon release a multidisc (?) set of the Tentet performances in
Chicago from about a year ago, including Brotzmann, Gustafsson, Joe
McPhee, Ken Vandermark, Mars Williams, Kent Kessler, Hamid Drake, and
some other people.  I heard this from McPhee and someone else.




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:21:58 -0700
From: "Dave" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dark River

I just got new speakers today with 12" woofers and great bass.
My old ones were small bookshelf ones. I put on the Zorn
disc "Redbird" and the piece "Dark River" shook the house!
It was amazing. My cats started acting very bizarre.



Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:37:47 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> Ornette         Science Fiction and Skies of America--both on Japanese
>                 Sony for $22 at Other Music. Anyone know how good a
>                 remastering job was done on these?

This reminds me: when the Caravan of Dreams first opened, I heard that
they'd recorded a new version of Skies of America that they were going
to release on their (short-lived) label. Did that ever appear anywhere?

I also once saw a documentary about Ornette made at that time by...
uh... Shirley Clarke?... which featured footage of that concert, and
heard that it was out on video. What was it called, and is it
available?

Science Fiction, I believe, contains one of my favorite Ornette tracks,
the song "All My Life", sung by Asha Puthli (I think).

Is there a good Ornette discography online? www.harmolodic.com had a
good start of a site, but dropped the ball a while back...
- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:30:32 -0400
From: stephen drury <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Cobra

At 09:28 AM 4/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>But you can't do it "wrong" can you?

I know I'm taking the above quote out of context, but I think it's important
to remember "Cobra" is not free jazz, or a blowing session, or unstructured.
It's a composition, and it definitely is possible to make mistakes.  It's
also possible to play it entirely correctly and still suck, just like
playing a Beethoven string quartet.
- --steve


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 02:50:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies

On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Joseph Zitt wrote:

> I also once saw a documentary about Ornette made at that time by...
> uh... Shirley Clarke?... which featured footage of that concert, and
> heard that it was out on video. What was it called, and is it
> available?

The title is _Ornette: Made In America_, I believe.  Don't know if it's
commercially available.

Chris Hamilton



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 03:20:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy

I was fairly enthusiastic in the review I gave a few days ago, but I think
if I'd paid $20 I wouldn't have enjoyed it so much.  In fact, it does seem
to be kind of half baked.  Either Patton/Zorn are trying to see what they
can get away with or they think they can get away w/ halfway efforts such
as this.  Maybe with all the albums Zorn puts out, he should put stickers
on them
saying "I care about this album", "I sort of care about this album", and
"This is more of a 'statement' than something you will want to listen to
very much".

As for CIMP vs. Screwgun, they must be doing something different b/c the
Screwgun thingies sound a lot more alive.  I would be surprised to hear
Berne start talking about audiophile sound or anything like that.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:23:50 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy

> I was fairly enthusiastic in the review I gave a few days ago, but I
think
> if I'd paid $20 I wouldn't have enjoyed it so much.  In fact, it does
seem
> to be kind of half baked.  Either Patton/Zorn are trying to see what they
> can get away with or they think they can get away w/ halfway efforts such
> as this.  Maybe with all the albums Zorn puts out, he should put stickers
> on them

Stuff on the Circle Maker (just to take an example) don't really take that
much effort either, they just come out sounding nicer, that's all.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:40:35 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: gustaffson (was re: goodies)

Scott Handley wrote:
>
> >Mats Gustaffson--Parrot Fish Eye  My first Gustaffson and I'll have to
> >withhold judgment on his playing, not knowing if this is a typical
> >outing. I get more a sense of technical exercises than deep, rich
> >musicality here, a common problem I find with a lot of younger free
> >players (sometimes referred to a borahbergmanitis), but I'd be
> >interested in hearing him in other contexts.
>
> Just 1.5 cents, for the record:
>
> I heard most of a friend's Gryffsgryffsgryffsgryys (Marilyn Crispell,
> Gustafsson, Barry Guy, Raymond Strid--MUSIC & ARTS, 1997?) and was
> REALLY impressed.  I also saw him solo live and it was the BOMB.  I own
> PARROT FISH EYE and don't like it.  There are semireliable rumors that
> Okka will soon release a multidisc (?) set of the Tentet performances in
> Chicago from about a year ago, including Brotzmann, Gustafsson, Joe
> McPhee, Ken Vandermark, Mars Williams, Kent Kessler, Hamid Drake, and
> some other people.  I heard this from McPhee and someone else.

According to the European Free Improv page, this will be a 3CD set on
OkkaDisk.

David Weinstein has a new disc on Avant called PERFUME (Avan-020).
Anyone checked it out?

                -Tom Pratt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:49:31 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: gustaffson (was re: goodies)

On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:40:35 -0400  Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> David Weinstein has a new disc on Avant called PERFUME (Avan-020).
> Anyone checked it out?

That's strange. The following one was planned a long time ago:

21 - BICYCLOPEDIA: David Weinstein (???? - Avant, Avan 021 (CD))

but David stopped making music few years ago and the project died.
Could PERFUME be that one? Or is it a new project (implying that David
is back)?

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:03:23 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: avant/DIW

On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:22:25 -0400  Steve Smith wrote:
>
> Zorn does from time to time release records on DIW rather than Avant or Tzadik;
> notably, the entire Masada ouevre has been on DIW.  I won't speculate as to
> why.

I asked him the question and his answer was that it was a matter of money. A
project requiring more that $5000 would end up on Avant; less or equal on
Tzadik (this was three years ago).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: NYC bound

Hello Compadres,

I'll in NYC for the next 10 days or so. Going to see
Masada on Tues. and Wed. nights. Should any fellow
list freaks want to hook up, drop me a note (I expect
NY has a few Internet Cafes I can check email from)
or just look for the blue-haired guy with the beardlet
under his lip.

cheers,
mike rizzi
- --
[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:18:43 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra

On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:40:31 UT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> But you can't do it "wrong" can you? I remember when I was performing some
> free improv somewhere, someone told me I "should" be playing something
> based on this chord, because that's what he was doing. I didn't really
> understand what he was thinking, if it's free improv, it should really be
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^
The expression "free improv" is quite interesting.

On one side, it is used to talk about a kind of improv that was initiated by
the British "school" which started in the late '60s with people like Derek
Bailey, Evan Parker, Paul Rutherford, Tony Oxley, etc. Following Bailey's
taxinomy, it is also known as "non-idiomatic" improvisation (as opposed to
free jazz and jazz improvisation). By extension, artists following similar
cannon are classified as free improvisers.

On the younger generation side, "free improv" means what the two words
imply (as Peter does): do what you want and no rules at all.

There is a popular belief (...) that people not knowing each others can meet
for one evening, and, without rehearsing at all and no predefined rules, can
produce "magic moments with telepathic interaction". I also believed that
for a long time, until I realized that the best "free improv" was done by
artists that really knew each others very well and improvised in a fairly
well-defined form (because you can immediately recognize it). For example,
the trio Parker/Guy/Lytton is usually considered as one of the best free
improv group. Needless to say that what this group does does not match at
all the second definition of "free improv".

No wonder why people can argue so long and do not understand each others :-).

> exactly that, improv and free. I admit it can sound better or worse to the
> audience if you approach it a different way, but usually from what I've
> experienced, the group has just as much fun no matter what happens
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And this is the point, right? That the band has fun... No matter what the
audience can think?

Sorry to be cynical, but these "free improv" situations look more an more
to me like group therapy, where the need for an audience become secondary,
as long as the protagonists have fun.

> (obviously unless they've got some guy like Zorn lecturing them in the
> interval).
>
> [pnr]
> Well, I wouldn't say wrong as in, wrong note, like the guy you were playing
> with.  Sure, that's not free-improv then, is it?  No, I mean wrong as in, not
> connecting and playing WITH each other.  One of the big criticisms you see on
> this list is "detached" which makes for not-so-hot music.  For the free-improv
> thing to really click, the musicians really need to be listening to each other
> and reacting to what the other members are playing.  This is where you get the
> jazz "dialogue" thing going and that connectedness, to me anyway, is the heart
> of good improv.
>
> So, yeah, play whatever notes you want to play, but if we're listening to each
> other and we're connecting, it comes through in the music.
>
> That's my opinion anyway.
>
> PeterR
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #343
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