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1998-04-18
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #335
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, April 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 335
In this issue:
-
Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon
Theater of Musical Optics
jco
Re: Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon
Wanted: Torture Garden vinyl
Cecil Taylor in Berlin
Cecil Taylor question
David S. Ware
Goodies = Miles + Throbbing
a late 20-odd
Torture Garden Vinyl/Painkiller
Greg Cohen - Way Low
Paraphrase
Re: soviet/russian improv
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 22:15:32 +0100
From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon
Scott Handley and Brian Olewnick wrote:
>>I haven't heard JCOA (my chops are drooly, yes...yes), but I did
>>recently purchase Barry Guy/LCJO PORTRAITS, a 2CD set from the same
>>multiform/multi-tiered, composition/free-improv approach (I use "same"
>>and "approach" in the same way one might say a dump truck and a tank
>>are similar), as well as the Tony Oxley Celebration Orchestra, which I
>>was a little bit disappointed by. [After hearing Joe McPhee do solo
>>trumpet, Bill Dixon's stuff (here, by the way----I haven't heard the
>>highly-touted VADE MECUM but hope to soon) just seems like a one-trick
>>pony.]
>Mmmmm...you're treading on dangerous ground with many listeners, but...I
>agree! Dixon's one of those I know I'm _supposed_ to think is great, but
>I've yet to hear it. WKCR used to have a semi-regular program devoted to
>his work and, more often than not, I'd come away not overly impressed.
>Like you, though, I've haven't yet heard 'Vade Mecum' and have been
>meaning to give it a try. You're dead-on about McPhee too. For all the
>relatively high amount of publicity he's gotten in the last year or two,
>Joe remains one of the great under-appreciated players around.
The Oxley disc is on my want list, so I don't know what Dixon's
contribution is to it. I do, however, have both volumes of Vade Mecum and
love them. I find Dixon quite interesting on these, but highlight is the
overall sound. There are times when I am unsure just who is doing what.
Though you may not like Dixon as a player, I think that these discs may
shed new light in him as a composer/conceptualist.
>> PORTRAITS was incredible, though, and I'd recommend it to >anybody;
>>though on the long side, it seems like a neat idea, >well-executed,
>>because in addition to a titanic all-star big-band (or
>>"large-ensemble", if you prefer), within that group you have the
>>occasional (and intentional) surfacing of three or four long-performing
>>ensembles such as ISKA 1903 and the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio. Plus, the
>>whole album begins with the most bone-chilling solo tenor playing I've
>>heard from Evan Parker; haven't felt that way hearing him on tenor
>>since hearing the 1969 Brotzmann album NIPPLES.
>How does THEORIA, or ODE, or any of the other LCJO albums compare to
>PORTRAITS?
>Actually, PORTRAITS is the one (?) large-scale Guy work I haven't
>gotten to. As I posted earlier, I think THEORIA is incredible; it
>absolutely floored me when I first heard it about a year ago. HARMOS
>is almost as good. The recent THREE PIECES FOR ORCHESTRA is very fine
>as are ODE (from 1972) and the ZURICH CONCERTS (in which the LJCO
>performs pieces by Guy and Braxton). All of these are on Intakt. Last
>year's WITCH GONG GAME II/10 (on Maya) seems to me somewhat less
>successful, though not bad.
I don't have Witch Gong Game; is it the one from Vancouver with the west
coast players? This might explain its lack of success, as Guy writes much
of his material specifically for the members of LJCO, much like Ellington
composed for his band. The only one of the Intakt releases I don't have
yet is Three Pieces, but really want it to hear how Crispell fit into the
band. A friend of mine saw LJCO w/ Crispell performing Theoria (originally
written for Irene Schweizer) a few years ago and was blown away. As for
the others, Zurich Concerts is my least favourite, even though I am a huge
Braxton fan. I don't think it really worked, but maybe it was for the same
reason as WGG doesn't, it just needed more work. I wouldn't recommend Ode
as a first place to start. It is great, but stylistically different; much
more rough(?) than the later pieces. Some of the composed parts of Harmos
are stunningly beautiful. Theoria is my favorite though.
On a semi related note, what do people think of Vinny Golia's large
ensemble works. he seems to be working in the same territory, but not
quite hitting it dead on. However, all the recordings of that band are
poor quality, so maybe they sound much better live.
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:22:56 -0500
From: Phil Plencner <plencner@lnd.com>
Subject: Theater of Musical Optics
>
Roger Langvik wrote:
> Wich is :"MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOUND --
> MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TIME"
>
> This info is from theTheatre of musical optics web page (it's a history
> lesson of sorts and I have actually mannaged to forget the address
> so...don't ask :-) )
>
> Roger
>
That web page address is:
http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/zornfest/zorn-ToMO.html
Phil
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA>
Subject: jco
Speaking of JCOA, is the "Jazz Composers Orchestra" album (the one with a
track featuring Pharoah Sanders at maximum intensity) still available?
If so, who distributes it (in Canada)? Someone played it for me a few
years ago (on vinyl) but I've never seen it for sale.
Cappy D'Angelo
Student at Law - Intellectual Property
Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering
Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion
Victoria, B.C., CANADA
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:58:06 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon
Dan Given wrote:
> I don't have Witch Gong Game; is it the one from Vancouver with the west
> coast players?
Yes it is and you're probably right, that could explain the
less-than-inspired sound of the session.
> This might explain its lack of success, as Guy writes much
> of his material specifically for the members of LJCO, much like Ellington
> composed for his band. The only one of the Intakt releases I don't have
> yet is Three Pieces, but really want it to hear how Crispell fit into the
> band. A friend of mine saw LJCO w/ Crispell performing Theoria (originally
> written for Irene Schweizer) a few years ago and was blown away.
IMHO, the piece with Crispell and the straight orchestra one work
wonderfully, fitting in nicely with the best of Guy's recent work. The
track with Maggie Nichols I find a bit more problematic, but I admit to
being ill at ease with many free vocalists.
> As for
> the others, Zurich Concerts is my least favourite, even though I am a huge
> Braxton fan. I don't think it really worked, but maybe it was for the same
> reason as WGG doesn't, it just needed more work. I wouldn't recommend Ode
> as a first place to start. It is great, but stylistically different; much
> more rough(?) than the later pieces. Some of the composed parts of Harmos
> are stunningly beautiful. Theoria is my favorite though.
>
> On a semi related note, what do people think of Vinny Golia's large
> ensemble works. he seems to be working in the same territory, but not
> quite hitting it dead on. However, all the recordings of that band are
> poor quality, so maybe they sound much better live.
Yeah, though I've never caught him live, I've checked in on his work off
and on for around twenty years and have never heard anything
particularly compelling. If anyone would care to recommend any
large-ensemble stuff of his they think is great, please do. I had high
expectations for last year's trio w/ George Lewis and Bertram Turetsky
but was somewhat disappointed (though it garnered great reviews in some
quarters).
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:11:46 -0700
From: "Dave" <torturegarden@mailexcite.com>
Subject: Wanted: Torture Garden vinyl
I am in need of a copy of Torture Garden on vinyl. Must be
in VG+ or better condition. I don't know what it is worth, but can
trade for a copy of "Black Box" or pay cash. E-mail me privately
as not to clutter the list.
Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:26:25 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Cecil Taylor in Berlin
Now that I'm home I'm reviewing the Cecil Taylor in Berlin recordings
that have been discussed and wanted to mention my own subjective take on
what are the best of a truly indispensable bunch:
"Spots, Circles and Fantasy" w/Han Bennink
"Pleistozean Mit Wasser" w/Derek Bailey. This is really superb,
surprising at first because there is no piano for a long while at the
start, Taylor chanting while Bailey plays, and it works great.
"Leaf Palm Hand" w/Tony Oxley. If you know the Feel Trio, you know how
these two play together.
"Erzulie Maketh Scent" solo. On par with the best later solo recordings
like Garden and For Olim.
"Regalia" w/Paul Lovens.
"Alms/Tiergarten (Spree)" w/orchestra.
The others include Gunter Sommer, Louis Moholo and Honsinger/Parker,
which are all fine but don't stand out as much as the ones I've listed,
IMO.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:46:30 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Cecil Taylor question
I recently rediscovered the insert in the sleeve of the Unit Core
release of SPRING OF TWO BLUE-J'S. It mentions two pending releases
(including cover shots): INDENT II (solo, I think, from the same concert
as INDENT) and CECIL TAYLOR UNIT CORE ENSEMBLE, also recorded at Antioch
with an ensemble of student musicians.
As far as I know, neither has ever seen the light of day. Anyone out
there know otherwise?
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:51:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu>
Subject: David S. Ware
I think this quartet is one of the best working groups of the decade, and
you can't really go wrong with any purchase. That having been said, I'd
snap up the other releases on DIW ("Earthquation", "Flight of i", "Third
Ear Recitation") before they go out of print.
Jason Bivins
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:09:23 -0500
From: Paul Chavez <pmchavez@earthlink.net>
Subject: Goodies = Miles + Throbbing
TG influenced by Miles my friends (see 20 Jazz Funk Greats) ... not the
other way around. Excuse the confusion.
As for Pangea and Agharta, they are next on my list.
Paul
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:10:16 -0700
From: tricky88@earthlink.net
Subject: a late 20-odd
LATE: But considering the list=92s reactions to these, I doubt anyone wil=
l
mind. I WAS pissed b/c this blew up the traffic on the list; I=92m just
now catching up and still have 25 digests to get through. I was ignoring
the idea, but something about Doug McKay=92s list in particular made me
realize this has nothing to do with BEST records, but the things it
would be oh so difficult to live without. In my case these are the
records that on first listen destroyed my perception of a genre, or
simply turned my life upside-down. The first chord of each floods my
memory. No order... - Mark Mauer
Tappa Zukie - In Dub - Blood & Fire (Some of the most riveting 70s dub
Ive heard)
Guided By Voices - Under the Bushes, Under the Stars - Matador=20
(Sincere? as a heart attack.)
Pixies - Doolittle - 4AD=20
Pavement - Slanted & Enchanted - Matador (every song shoulda been a Top
40 hit)
John Zorn - Elegy - Eva / 99 Records (NOT an obligatory choice, though
after hearing David Slusser=92s amazing disc, I think he should get
co-billing on this one.)
Harris / Laswell - Sominic Flux - Subharmonic (Spookiest thing Ive ever
heard)
Alec Empire - Generation Star Wars - Mille Plateaux (Spookiest thing
with beats Ive ever heard)
Replacements - Pleased to Meet Me - Reprise
Didjits - Hey Judester - Touch & Go (In concert they had Satan introduce
them)
Wonder Stuff - Hup! - PLG (Joyous heartbreaks)
Manic Street Preachers - Generation Terrorists (UK 18 song edition) -
Sony (No Aplogies for this one, it's playing as I write this)
Underworld - Second Toughest in the Infants - Wax Trax!
Wesley Willis - Fireman Rick - Wesley Willis Records (Bought from Wesley
at Delilah's: Mostly to keep him from headbutting my girlfriend and me)
Las Vegas Grind - various artists - Crypt (FILTHY 50s rock and roll.
Thank God Crypt rescued these songs)
Wilco - Being There - Reprise (The only double CD!)=20
Swamp Terrorists - Grim Stroke Disease - Machinery (The loudest
record I'd ever heard at the time)=20
Miles Davis - In Person Saturday Night Vol. 2 - Columbia (Opened up a
whole new world for me)
Big Star - Third / Sister Lovers - Ryko (Should be playing at my
funeral)
REM - Reckoning - IRS=20
American Music Club - Everclear - Alias
Bauhaus - Press the Eject, Give me the Tape - Beggars Banquet
Sinead O=92Connor - Lion and The Cobra - Chrysalis (heartbreaking)
Robyn Hitchcock - I Often Dream of Trains - Midnight Fish
Lutefisk - Deliver from Porcelin: Theme and Variations - Bong Load
(Folks into Mr. Bungle might find this band of real interest: Other
album is called Burn in Hell Fuckers)
Screamin Jay Hawkins - Voodoo Jive - Rhino
Sorely Missing: Ministry, Nirvana, Wedding Present, Beck, Prince, most
Digital Hardcore, Mo Wax and Tzadik recrods, Birthday Party, Beastie
Boys, Ink Spots, World Party, Tom Waits, Nick Drake, Aphex Twin, Lou
Barlow, Swans, Impala, Coltrane, and the list goes on.
Also videos of Withnail & I, Naked and Pee-Wee=92s Big Adventure
Books: Dictionary of the Khazars, Nine Stories, and any William T.
Vollman.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:07:34 -0500
From: Howie Voigt <buurin@athenet.net>
Subject: Torture Garden Vinyl/Painkiller
Dave wrote:
>
> I am in need of a copy of Torture Garden on vinyl. Must be
> in VG+ or better condition. I don't know what it is worth, but can
> trade for a copy of "Black Box" or pay cash. E-mail me privately
> as not to clutter the list.
I am not willing to sell mine but I know someone in the UK who
has one for sale. I believe it is brand new and in very good
condition but she wants 15pounds for it. This is the Earache UK
release, a very nice looking gatefold LP. The US shimmy disc(?)
release might be cheaper but I don't know where to look for one.
I have seen one once and I believe this version is gatefold as well.
If you, or anyone is interested mail me for her email address.
I have dealt with her many times before, and although expensive,
she is very reliable.
Finally, I have two Painkiller CDs I would like to trade:
Rituals Live in Japan Toy's Factory Records TFCK-88627
Execution Ground 3CD Toy's Factory Records TFCK-88731~3
I am willing to trade for CDs/Vinyl by the following bands:
Univers Zero
Shub-Niggurath (the prog. band)
Anglagard
Landberk
Osamu Kitajima (earlier recordings)
Anekdoten
...other stuff you think I might like based on this
Or 80's metal such as: (especially vinyl, but CD is good too:)
Possessed
Candlemass
Sodom
Destruction
Dark Angel
Kreator (Flag of Hate MLP only)
Celtic Frost
Bathory
...other bands, tell me what you have/can get
I will also consider trades for earlier and harder to find modern
Death Metal stuff. For example between '88-'93, especially 7"s and
demos.
Cheers!
Howie (buurin@athenet.net)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:26:56 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Greg Cohen - Way Low
I know someone on this list is going to pick this up (if it's not already
owned) so I'll put in a request for a review.
Thanks,
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:45:01 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Paraphrase
I caught Paraphrase last night at the Emanuel Church in Boston. I've
been a fan of Tim Berne for quite a while now (ever since I heard
'Snactified Dreams' which is still my favorite) so I was super-excited
to be there after skipping all of my classes on Friday trying to
organize the trip. It was, shall I say, intimate (with only 25 or so
people there) and I was right up close.
I thought the show was very good. I think Berne's real strength is in
his composing so Paraphrase being a free improv unit, that was obviously
just not there. There's a lot of Berne's composing style in his
improvised lines though. I thought Tom Rainey was the stand-out. It's
amazing the amount of intensity he can mull up using brushes while
remaining relatively soft. He and Drew Gress had some pretty great
interactions. Good show!
By the way, I found two Berne JMT discs at the Tower Records in
Cambridge the next morning - Miniature 'I Can't Put my Finger On It' and
Caos Totale 'Nice View'. I picked both of them up (though 'Diminutive
Mysteries' is still there). Anyway, for those of you still looking to
find JMT stuff, I recommend a big store like Tower that has a ton
in-stock. They are still out there! Good luck!
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:17:24 +0300 (WET)
From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il>
Subject: Re: soviet/russian improv
i have "Catalogue" and "Poco-a-Poco" by Ganelin Trio and both records are
just amazing. if you like free jazz it`s the best of this kind of music.
wonderful performances, all members of the band are
multi-insrumentalists, and sometimes you just can not believe that what
you hear is a live trio, wonderful compositions - today Ganelin is the
head of jazz department in israel musical academy.
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Scott Handley wrote:
> Something I can't remember seeing discussed on this list is the
> apparently-fertile Russian/Soviet/Eastern-bloc music of the past, say
> twenty-odd years. Maybe it's because most of you know about as little
> as I do about it all. Leo Records had to SMUGGLE shit out and release
> it with disclaimers (basically implying, for the sake of the artists,
> that they had STOLEN the tapes). Some records I'm interested in
> investing-in include:
> *Anything by Ganelin/Ganelin Trio
> *8 CD Soviet Eighties box set
> *4 CD Sergey Kuryokhin box
> *4 CD Soviet Jazz Festival: CONSPIRACY box, 1989
> *etc. (I picked the famous stuff)
>
> I'd appreciate suggestions and comments and new names, and info about
> other releases, of course. And feel free to e.mail me privately unless
> you think it would be of interest to the list.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Scott
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #335
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