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1998-04-17
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #334
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, April 17 1998 Volume 02 : Number 334
In this issue:
-
David S. Ware Quartet
Re[2]: mantler/cecil taylor/jcoa
Miles' Throbbing Gristle (was Re: Recent goodies)
Re: Dave Douglas "Thoughts Around Mahfouz" [was Re: mori]
Re: Theatre of musical optics
Re: Barry Guy/LCJO (was re: cecil taylor/JCOA)
Re: Theatre of musical optics
Re: Bang on a Can and Thanks
Re: Recent Goodies
Re[2]: Barry Guy/LCJO (was re: cecil taylor/JCOA)
Re: Recent goodies
Theatre of Musical Optics
DA music
sonny simmons / sonny murray tour
Re:Sorry to spam.....
merzbow?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 18:32:29 +1000
From: Alister Shew <alby@midnite.net.au>
Subject: David S. Ware Quartet
I'm looking for some advice on the David S. Ware Quartet. I bought
"Godspelized" recently and like it a lot - any recommendations on the
group's other records?
Thanks
Al
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 08:39:37 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: mantler/cecil taylor/jcoa
Steve Smith wrote:
>It is available on a single CD on the JCOA label, released via ECM, catalog
>number 78118-23401-2. No, it's not an ECM recording, but the connection
>runs from JCOA via Bley and Mantler to Watt Works and from there to ECM,
>who got it issued.
One minor quibble with the CD re-issue (which, nonetheless, is one of
THE essential records of the last 30 or more years--incredible start
to finish): the tracks are slightly rearranged, placing the Pharaoh
Sanders piece after the Swallow/Rudd one, abutting the two Taylor
forays. I'm not sure, but there might be a law against having two
tracks containing this much energy placed back-to-back on disc. In any
case, the dramatic flow of the original is somewhat compromised.
>I'll be keeping mine, thanks... :-)
Yeah, sorry Scott, me too, vinyl and disc. But the disc's not too hard
to come by. It's arguable that none of the soloists involved (Cherry,
Barbieri, Coryell (!), Sanders, Swallow, Rudd and Taylor) have ever
sounded much better than they do here. And Mantler, unfortunately, has
never again come close to this level (with the possible exception of
'13').
FWIW and IMHO, the only composer working in this general arena who has
produced things of comparable quality recently has been Barry Guy,
especially his 'Theoria'. Any other nominees?
Brian Olewnick
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:17:45 -0500
From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham)
Subject: Miles' Throbbing Gristle (was Re: Recent goodies)
>Just bought two Miles Davis releases:
>
>Dark Magus and Live Evil.
>
>Both are stunning and beautiful releases... however, can't figure out
>why Dark Magus was a Japanese only release for so long. I am blown away
>on the bands Miles uses for these releases as the music is heavy funk
>with lots of freeblowing movements. I think of prime Throbbing Gristle
>when I have these on as possible points of influence. Maybe? Possibly?
>
>Paul
If you're saying Miles was an influence on TG - sure, it's possible, but as
TG were not chops-oriented and mostly collective in their approach, Cosey's
processed cornet floating over walls of noise is more a happy coincidence than
a measured influence, I think...
BUT, if you're saying TG influenced Miles (as the sentence reads), that's
hilarious,
insane, and impossible (timeline-wise) - congrats for making me laugh before
my first coffee this morning!
There is a Miles influence on Pere Ubu, though - check "The Art of Walking"...
Yours,
Jon M.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:25:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Dave Douglas "Thoughts Around Mahfouz" [was Re: mori]
On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote:
> Yves Dewulf wrote:
>
> > I think this is a big problem for electronic musicians doing live
> > performances (especially the more compact electronic instruments like
> > samplers and drum-machines): the audience only sees a person behind a
> > table pushing buttons on a machine
>
> Reminds me of Braxton's "myth of the sweaty brow" wherein he posits that in
> order to be perceived as doing something meaningful and difficult one must
> work up a sweat.
>
> Ikue is an amazing artist, and I can't imagine wishing to hear her behind a
> conventional kit... that's not what she does.
lest you all misunderstand me, i never meant to imply that mori's playing
didn't appeal to me on a particular evening because of her lack of
stage motion or gesticulation. all i meant to say was that i wasn't as
impressed with her improvisations as i was with bailey's and zorn's. i
also don't think that there's anything wrong with wanting to hear her on
a kit anymore than it would be wrong to want to hear zorn play tenor or
soprano. i think it would be interesting. personally, i like dna better
than anything those guys have done subsequently, but that's probably the
punk rocker in me talking.
i tend to only post positive comments on lists because sometimes fans
will take such umbrage when a stranger doesn't like one of their favorite
musicians.
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:58:02 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:40:17 PDT "Scott Handley" wrote:
>
> How did you get this information, even? The only place I remember
> reading about T.O.M.O. was somewhere in the nest of Zornfest 93 reviews
> located somewhere on the net. And I didn't remember anything like the
> below stuff.
I still have the flyer that Zorn put out for these events. I even might be
able to write it down if anybody is interested.
Patrice.
> >
> >I have some questions abaout Zorns Thetre of musical optics....
> >
> >I would be happy if any of you goys and gals could answer these...:
> >
> >1. How was the objeckts highlighted on the grid....?
> >(I have a theory abaout spotlights being used on each grid to light up
> th=
> >e
> >objects in piece......)
> >2. How did time get out of the music?
> >3. How does "Fidel" and "Caf=E9 wha?" help to point towards the answer
> of
> >what remains after both time and sound is taken away from a musical
> >performance?
> >
> >Anybody?
> >
> >Roger
> >
> >-
> >
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> -
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:23:35 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Barry Guy/LCJO (was re: cecil taylor/JCOA)
>
> FWIW and IMHO, the only composer working in this general arena who
has
> produced things of comparable quality recently has been Barry Guy,
> especially his 'Theoria'. Any other nominees?
>
> Brian Olewnick
B. OLEWICK IS RIGHT (an essay without indentation by S. Handley)
I haven't heard JCOA (my chops are drooly, yes...yes), but I did
recently purchase Barry Guy/LCJO PORTRAITS, a 2CD set from the same
multiform/multi-tiered, composition/free-improv approach (I use "same"
and "approach" in the same way one might say a dump truck and a tank are
similar), as well as the Tony Oxley Celebration Orchestra, which I was a
little bit disappointed by. [After hearing Joe McPhee do solo trumpet,
Bill Dixon's stuff (here, by the way----I haven't heard the
highly-touted VADE MECUM but hope to soon) just seems like a one-trick
pony.] PORTRAITS was incredible, though, and I'd recommend it to
anybody; though on the long side, it seems like a neat idea,
well-executed, because in addition to a titanic all-star big-band (or
"large-ensemble", if you prefer), within that group you have the
occasional (and intentional) surfacing of three or four long-performing
ensembles such as ISKA 1903 and the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio. Plus, the
whole album begins with the most bone-chilling solo tenor playing I've
heard from Evan Parker; haven't felt that way hearing him on tenor since
hearing the 1969 Brotzmann album NIPPLES.
How does THEORIA, or ODE, or any of the other LCJO albums compare to
PORTRAITS?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:31:14 +0200
From: "Roger Langvik" <tjohansen@vf.telia.no>
Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics
> On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:01:09 -0500 (CDT) "Joseph S. Zitt" wrote:
> >
> > That's a fascinating bunch of questions -- but what are you asking
about?
> > Is the theatre of musical optics something other than just a publishing
> > company?
>
> It is much more than that! Zorn was involved in some kind of minimal
> theatre in the late '70s (a consequence, I guess, of frequenting artists
like
> Foreman and Smith).
>
> I remember that during the Zorn month at the KF, he had a couple of late
> performances where he would just sit on the floor and spend the full time
> just moving little objects.
That piece is probably "For Jack" the latest piece I know of that Zorn has
produced in the T.O.M.O. line of thought
Wich is :"MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOUND --
MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TIME"
This info is from theTheatre of musical optics web page (it's a history
lesson of sorts and I have actually mannaged to forget the address
so...don't ask :-) )
Roger
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:44:52 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Bang on a Can and Thanks
John D Schonewolf writes:
> I wanted to write and see what people thought about the whole Bang on a
> Can Festival and their CDs. Any recommendations on where to start with
> their catalogue?
John, I feel you can pretty much start anywhere. Since the CDs are
compilations of various pieces, they are varied in quality, good stuff
and not so good stuff on each one. The approach I took was to pick out
the ones with particular pieces I wanted to hear [out of the three CRI
volumes and the two Sony ones]; for me that meant focussing on Tom
Johnson and David Lang, and being both pleasantly surprised and also
disappointed by other works on the recordings. Catch as catch can.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:51:55 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies
Paul Chavez writes:
> Just bought two Miles Davis releases:
>
> Dark Magus and Live Evil.
>
> Both are stunning and beautiful releases... however, can't figure out
> why Dark Magus was a Japanese only release for so long. I am blown away
> on the bands Miles uses for these releases as the music is heavy funk
> with lots of freeblowing movements. I think of prime Throbbing Gristle
> when I have these on as possible points of influence. Maybe? Possibly?
>
> Someone had mentioned buying Pangaea. What's this one like?
You don't meant to say that Throbbing Gristle influenced this music
[which came before], do you? I think the other way is definitely valid,
however, it does remind me of a suick spot on MTV where Lou Reed,
Michelle N'Degocello [sp?], et. al. were mentioning influences like
Miles Davis and Ornette Coleman, which I found pretty strange since I
never hear anywhere near the level of musicianship, radical conception
or even basic improvisation in their music as you can hear in Miles and
Ornette.
Pangea, and Agharta along with it, are a step removed from Live Evil and
Dark Magus; more abstract, darker, often much darker. The band is not
as flexible, I don't feel, but the music is strong.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 13:29:30 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Barry Guy/LCJO (was re: cecil taylor/JCOA)
Scott Handley wrote:
>I haven't heard JCOA (my chops are drooly, yes...yes), but I did
>recently purchase Barry Guy/LCJO PORTRAITS, a 2CD set from the same
>multiform/multi-tiered, composition/free-improv approach (I use "same"
>and "approach" in the same way one might say a dump truck and a tank
>are similar), as well as the Tony Oxley Celebration Orchestra, which I
>was a little bit disappointed by. [After hearing Joe McPhee do solo
>trumpet, Bill Dixon's stuff (here, by the way----I haven't heard the
>highly-touted VADE MECUM but hope to soon) just seems like a one-trick
>pony.]
Mmmmm...you're treading on dangerous ground with many listeners, but...I
agree! Dixon's one of those I know I'm _supposed_ to think is great, but
I've yet to hear it. WKCR used to have a semi-regular program devoted to
his work and, more often than not, I'd come away not overly impressed.
Like you, though, I've haven't yet heard 'Vade Mecum' and have been
meaning to give it a try. You're dead-on about McPhee too. For all the
relatively high amount of publicity he's gotten in the last year or two,
Joe remains one of the great under-appreciated players around.
> PORTRAITS was incredible, though, and I'd recommend it to >anybody;
>though on the long side, it seems like a neat idea, >well-executed,
>because in addition to a titanic all-star big-band (or
>"large-ensemble", if you prefer), within that group you have the
>occasional (and intentional) surfacing of three or four long-performing
>ensembles such as ISKA 1903 and the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio. Plus, the
>whole album begins with the most bone-chilling solo tenor playing I've
>heard from Evan Parker; haven't felt that way hearing him on tenor
>since hearing the 1969 Brotzmann album NIPPLES.
>How does THEORIA, or ODE, or any of the other LCJO albums compare to
>PORTRAITS?
Actually, PORTRAITS is the one (?) large-scale Guy work I haven't
gotten to. As I posted earlier, I think THEORIA is incredible; it
absolutely floored me when I first heard it about a year ago. HARMOS
is almost as good. The recent THREE PIECES FOR ORCHESTRA is very fine
as are ODE (from 1972) and the ZURICH CONCERTS (in which the LJCO
performs pieces by Guy and Braxton). All of these are on Intakt. Last
year's WITCH GONG GAME II/10 (on Maya) seems to me somewhat less
successful, though not bad.
Like early Mantler, Guy is able to work that odd area between rich,
sonorous, post-Romantic orchestral writing and free improv. If
Frederic Rzewski wrote for orchestra, perhaps he'd be in the same
ballpark--man, I'd love to hear that (meanwhile, I'll be quite content
to hear z-lister Drury's performance of THE PEOPLE UNITED... this
evening!).
Brian Olewnick
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:08:14 -1000
From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk)
Subject: Re: Recent goodies
>Just bought two Miles Davis releases:
>
>Dark Magus and Live Evil.
>
>Someone had mentioned buying Pangaea. What's this one like?
>
Definitely get it, and while you're at the store, get Agartha (Argatha? Can
never remember the spelling) too. Both were concerts recorded on the same
day, A. in the afternoon, P. in the eve, live in Japan.
I think the best way to listen to these is to reserve about 3 hours and
listen to all four discs of A. and P. in a row. A mind-blowing experience.
If there ever existed an truly epic jam session in geologic terms, this is
it. Keep the lights low and the phone off the hook.
If you're into Dark Magus (as I am, and would rather have that record over
Bitches Brew any day of the week), you will not be disappointed.
- - Steve
*** *** ***
Steve Funk
(sfunk@pop.adn.com)
Anchorage, AK
USA
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:29:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Theatre of Musical Optics
I read an article about this and some other parts of Zorn's history in the
early years- it was in a book of interviews with modern composers that I
checked out from my school's music library. I suppose I should get the
name of the book- actually there were two. He taled about the
relationship between these little objects and his game pieces, and about
playing concerts for audiences of 2-4 people in his apt.
P.S. I saw Noah Howard last night, he played to an audience of about 25 in
the student union building. Bobby Few (piano) didn't show up, and a
really ridiculous poet sat in for three songs while they played some
boring funk vamps, but the rest was amazing. They played Ole (Coltrane)
and some other stuff that ROCKED. Wilbur Morris is a monster on the bass.
I don't know how they get up for such shows, all that traveling and no
turnout. He's got some recent albums on Cadence and CIMP by the way.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:36:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: DA music
I'm glad to know there is a difference between the nefertiti version on
Revenant and the cheaper Black Lion relaease since I've got the revenant
one.
But I have a question about Julius Hemphill reissues. I have Reflections,
formerly Coon Bidness. They misspelled some names which doesn't bother me
so much, but there is a strange dropout that occurs during the the written
part of "The Hard Blues". Is this just an effect of orchestration i.e.
does it occur on the record. Also, is Dogon A.D. available? I read that
both were out of print (Coon... and Dogon) but since I found this I wonder
if the other one's out there.
I'm looking forward to Screwgun's reissue(s) of his stuff.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: sonny simmons / sonny murray tour
did someone mention this on the zorn list? i'm trying to find out
information for a possible booking.
thanks in advance,
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:29:20 UT
From: peter_risser@cinfin.com
Subject: Re:Sorry to spam.....
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't get any email addresses with these.
So I can't mail recommendations or requests or make bids until I happen to get
my digest copy (yes I subscribe to both) and look it up. Other people don't
seem to have this problem, I guess, but I can't reply to anyone but the list.
So, please, if you're asking for private mail from members of the list, please
include your private email address so's I can send some.
Thanks,
PeterR
____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: Sorry to spam.....
Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
Date: 04/16/1998 4:16 PM
Hello list-eners.....
I have about 75 CD's to get rid of cheap...everything from Debbie Gibson to
Painkiller. Email me privately for a list.....
Dale.
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:30:47 -0700
From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: merzbow?
sorry to have to plead ignorance on the newsgroup, but who is merzbow and
what are they all about. sorry for the wasted space....
oh and zony mash played here in portland last night. they were opening for
DJ Gravy, or the Grey Boy All-Stars. i didnt stay for either band so im
not sure who was headlining..... anyway, any info on these two?
thanks,
patrick in portland
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #334
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