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1998-04-15
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #332
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, April 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 332
In this issue:
-
Re: Cecil Taylor questions
Re: mori
Re: Cecil Taylor questions
Re: mori
Re[2]: mori
Re: mori
more mori
Theatre of musical optics
Re: more mori
Cobra
Re: Theatre of musical optics
Re:Cobra
Re: Theatre of musical optics
Re: more mori
Re: more mori
Re: more mori
Sorry to spam.....
Re: Theatre of musical optics
Merzbow
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:28:16 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions
Jeff Schwartz writes:
> Any recomendations on FMP's Cecil meets the European Free
> Improvisers series?
>
If you mean the "In Berlin" series, then I would recommend ALL OF THEM!
Absolutely. My personal favorite, FWIW, is the recording with Derek
Bailey.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:38:12 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
Subject: Re: mori
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:06:06 -0400 (EDT), Brent Burton said:
> i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the
> knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine avec
> effects improvisations. although her style of volume swells was
> pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just kept
> wishing that she was playing a kit.
>
Gotta disagree here. I saw the same show and I was amazed at what she
was able to do. Though she does sit there quietly and push buttons and
turn knobs, the sounds that she's able to create are amazing- I think
she outclassed some of the other people at that show (without trying).
I also saw her do a great set with Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth at the
Anchorage last year. Don't be fooled by her seemingly quiet demeanor-
if you just listen, there's a lot going on. I think the work she's
doing now is much better the playing she did on a drum kit with DNA.
Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:40:14 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions
>
>Any recomendations on FMP's Cecil meets the European Free
>Improvisers series?
>--
>Jeff Schwartz
>jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu
>http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html
If for some INSANE REASON anyone is selling their box set, I'm buying!
On that note, I really like the meetings with Tony Oxley and especially
Paul Lovens: my favorite playing by Lovens on record (which I've heard).
REGALIA (w/Lovens) is a super-awesome record.
- --scott
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:58:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: mori
nOn Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Perfect Sound Forever wrote:
> Gotta disagree here. I saw the same show and I was amazed at what she
> was able to do. Though she does sit there quietly and push buttons and
> turn knobs, the sounds that she's able to create are amazing- I think
> she outclassed some of the other people at that show (without trying).
> Don't be fooled by her seemingly quiet demeanor- if you just listen,
> there's a lot going on. I think the work she's doing now is much better
> the playing she did on a drum kit with DNA.
well it wasn't as if bailey's stage presence was that much more electric.
i just didn't think she was sonically was adding that much. i mean you
can *tell* me that there was a lot going on, but i just didn't *hear* it.
i would've been just as happy if it had been just zorn and bailey. i
mean, it's improv, so it's too much of an assumption for me to say that
it didn't seem as if zorn or bailey were really feeding off mori, but
that's what it sounded like from the front row.
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 14:58:30 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: mori
>> i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the
>> knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine
>>avec effects improvisations. although her style of volume swells was
>> pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just
>>kept wishing that she was playing a kit.
>
>Gotta disagree here. I saw the same show and I was amazed at what she
>was able to do. Though she does sit there quietly and push buttons
>and turn knobs, the sounds that she's able to create are amazing- I
>think she outclassed some of the other people at that show (without
>trying). I also saw her do a great set with Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth
>at the Anchorage last year. Don't be fooled by her seemingly quiet
>demeanor- if you just listen, there's a lot going on. I think the
>work she's doing now is much better the playing she did on a drum kit
>with DNA.
Crikey! Was everyone on this last at that show?! We should probably wear
name tags. Anyway, I'll second Jason; I thought Ikue was amazing and
more than held her own in that crowd. I, too, get a kick out of someone
with such a calm demeanor producing such wild and inspired sounds.
Brian Olewnick
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:06:25 EDT
From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: mori
In a message dated 4/16/98 2:52:44 PM, bburton@CapAccess.org wrote:
<<> Gotta disagree here. I saw the same show and I was amazed at what she
> was able to do. Though she does sit there quietly and push buttons and
> turn knobs, the sounds that she's able to create are amazing- I think
> she outclassed some of the other people at that show (without trying).
> Don't be fooled by her seemingly quiet demeanor- if you just listen,
> there's a lot going on. I think the work she's doing now is much better
> the playing she did on a drum kit with DNA.
well it wasn't as if bailey's stage presence was that much more electric.
i just didn't think she was sonically was adding that much. i mean you
can *tell* me that there was a lot going on, but i just didn't *hear* it.
i would've been just as happy if it had been just zorn and bailey. i
mean, it's improv, so it's too much of an assumption for me to say that
it didn't seem as if zorn or bailey were really feeding off mori, but
that's what it sounded like from the front row.
b>>
well, I loved Mori during this concert. I thought Zorn was actually the odd
person out. He seemed to be switching between his duck call mode and a very
quiet, subdued mode without ever exploring the territory in between. I
remember saying to the illustrious Steve Smith afterwards that I would like to
hear a duet record between Mori and Bailey. What she does with textures is
remarkable and not really captured fully on any record I've ever heard. She
holds her own with any of the live "electronica" acts I've seen, from Autechre
to Mouse On Mars.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:37:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: more mori
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, JonAbbey2 wrote:
> well, I loved Mori during this concert. I thought Zorn was actually the odd
> person out. He seemed to be switching between his duck call mode and a very
> quiet, subdued mode without ever exploring the territory in between. I
> remember saying to the illustrious Steve Smith afterwards that I would like to
> hear a duet record between Mori and Bailey. What she does with textures is
> remarkable and not really captured fully on any record I've ever heard. She
> holds her own with any of the live "electronica" acts I've seen, from Autechre
> to Mouse On Mars.
i think i *really* must have been @ a different show! i grant you that a
duo disc between mori and bailey would be cool to hear, but i thought
zorn sounded really nice that night. and i think he responded well to
the clashing between bailey's plaintive, floating harmonics and
agressive, distorted assault of notes. maybe that's why his "switching"
was so abrupt? i was sitting about three feet from his horn and i was
loving every minute of it.
as far as "electronica" goes, i don't think anything i've heard mori do
on drum machines can touch autechre, who compose tracks that sound like
computers dying rhythmically - shards of sound. i didn't feel mori did
*enough* with the sampled drum sounds at that show or on the recent
_painted desert_ - they just sounded like drum machines. stiff. but then
again her approach seems completely different than autechre's.
apples and oranges.
love,
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:48:31 +0200
From: "Roger Langvik" <tjohansen@vf.telia.no>
Subject: Theatre of musical optics
I have some questions abaout Zorns Thetre of musical optics....
I would be happy if any of you goys and gals could answer these...:
1. How was the objeckts highlighted on the grid....?
(I have a theory abaout spotlights being used on each grid to light up th=
e
objects in piece......)
2. How did time get out of the music?
3. How does "Fidel" and "Caf=E9 wha?" help to point towards the answer of
what remains after both time and sound is taken away from a musical
performance?
Anybody?
Roger
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:55:37 EDT
From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: more mori
In a message dated 4/16/98 3:35:50 PM, bburton@CapAccess.org wrote:
<<as far as "electronica" goes, i don't think anything i've heard mori do
on drum machines can touch autechre, who compose tracks that sound like
computers dying rhythmically - shards of sound.>>
I'm talking about live performances, not records. Both Autechre and Mouse On
Mars, who have made a bunch of great records between them, are not especially
interesting live, at least in my experience. It's much harder to create the
sort of multi-layering effects that help to make many electronica albums good
when you're performing live. Mori's very good at it. Very few electronica acts
are.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:00:27 -1000
From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk)
Subject: Cobra
Digging back in memory a few years...
I bought the 2LP "Cobra" on HatArt way back when it first came out.
I don't think I ever listened all the way through. I recall there was a
studio version and a live version.
Pretty "cerebral" sounding stuff, and if you didn't know better you might
think it was random. Of course the process used to compose the piece is
interesting, but the results are often a bit tedious if I recall.
I do remember the live version containing some amusing "breaks" where the
band would suddenly start playing the "Beer Barrell Polka" or something...
aparently this was built in to the composition in some way to keep it from
getting too "boring". I think there were also a few of these moments in the
studio version, where someone would randomly put a record on a turntable
and let it play for a few seconds... I really can't remember details too
well about this one.
Someone else on the list can probably fill in the blanks a lot better than me.
Personally, I have never been intersted in buying this piece on CD. I don't
know if the CD is the same as the Hat Art LPs, or a new performance... I
imagine the piece could sound totally different with different players and
instrumentation.
So, if you're into the more experimental, non-linear, process-music, improv
side of Zorn, you may find it interesting.
If you're more on the Naked City, Spillane, Big Gundown side of the fence,
you may be bored.
If you must have all things Zorn, it's a no brainer.
One man's story.
- - Steve
*** *** ***
Steve Funk
(sfunk@pop.adn.com)
Anchorage, AK
USA
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:01:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics
That's a fascinating bunch of questions -- but what are you asking about?
Is the theatre of musical optics something other than just a publishing
company?
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Roger Langvik wrote:
> I have some questions abaout Zorns Thetre of musical optics....
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:14:17 UT
From: peter_risser@cinfin.com
Subject: Re:Cobra
I think Cobra as much theatre as it is music. I would not hesitate to ever see
it live, if I got the chance again. Listening to a recording of cobra would be
like listening to a recording of Stomp, as far as I'm concerned, maybe
interesting, but you're only getting half the point.
PeterR
____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: Cobra
Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
Date: 04/16/1998 5:00 PM
Digging back in memory a few years...
Personally, I have never been intersted in buying this piece on CD. I don't
know if the CD is the same as the Hat Art LPs, or a new performance... I
imagine the piece could sound totally different with different players and
instrumentation.
So, if you're into the more experimental, non-linear, process-music, improv
side of Zorn, you may find it interesting.
If you're more on the Naked City, Spillane, Big Gundown side of the fence,
you may be bored.
If you must have all things Zorn, it's a no brainer.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 16:15:39 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics
2. How did time get out of the music?
Well, how _does_ time get out of the music?
Hmmmm.
Brian Olewnick
;^)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:46:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: more mori
> I'm talking about live performances, not records. Both Autechre and Mouse On
> Mars, who have made a bunch of great records between them, are not especially
> interesting live, at least in my experience. It's much harder to create the
Whoa...too bad you didn't have MY experience of an Autechre live show.
(Autechre...Autechre...Autechre...)
I'll spare the play-by-play account of what the set was like, but i did
sneak a few peeks over the DJ table to see what they were up to. It
looked like a whole bunch of synths connected to a Mac, running some sort
of sequencer and they just ran the whole show to a MIDI clock whilst
tweaking knobs. I'm not sure how 'preprogrammed' the set was, ie: if they
were capable of 'improvising' or not, and how much the live knob tweaking
and Mac-poking changed the course of events...
It still blew me and everyone i talked to afterwards far far away.
Perhaps the LSD helped.
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:54:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: more mori
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
> (Autechre...Autechre...Autechre...)
BTW, how the bleep do you pronounce that? I've heard everything from
"Ottiker" to "Oh Tekh Ra" to "Aw-Tesh(gurgle)".
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:13:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: more mori
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
>
> > (Autechre...Autechre...Autechre...)
>
> BTW, how the bleep do you pronounce that? I've heard everything from
> "Ottiker" to "Oh Tekh Ra" to "Aw-Tesh(gurgle)".
i have it from reliable sources that it's pronounced:
aw-tek-er (the "techre" part is pronounced similar to occur)
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:16:10 EDT
From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com>
Subject: Sorry to spam.....
Hello list-eners.....
I have about 75 CD's to get rid of cheap...everything from Debbie Gibson to
Painkiller. Email me privately for a list.....
Dale.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:26:15 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:01:09 -0500 (CDT) "Joseph S. Zitt" wrote:
>
> That's a fascinating bunch of questions -- but what are you asking about?
> Is the theatre of musical optics something other than just a publishing
> company?
It is much more than that! Zorn was involved in some kind of minimal
theatre in the late '70s (a consequence, I guess, of frequenting artists like
Foreman and Smith).
I remember that during the Zorn month at the KF, he had a couple of late
performances where he would just sit on the floor and spend the full time
just moving little objects.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:40:38 -0400
From: "Simon Thibaudeau" <aag017@agora.ulaval.ca>
Subject: Merzbow
Message en plusieurs parties et au format MIME.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD6945.9F468220
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anybody know where to start with Merzbow? There is so much and I =
don't know where to start. Any suggestion
If I'm too off subject please e-mail me personnally
Simon Thibaudeau
Personal: simon.thibaudeau@ift.ulaval.ca
Mindspell: aag017@agora.ulaval.ca
(418)658-6150
http://mindspell.home.ml.org
http://mindspellzine.home.ml.org
Mindspell "paper" 'zine out now!
featuring: Devin Townsend, Sadus, Brutal Truth,
Raison D'=EAtre, Solar Spine and more....
Send 2$ US and Canada
3$ World
to: Mindspell=20
c/o Simon Thibaudeau
112 Ste-Marie
Panet
G0R 2J0
Canada
"..and so this style of expression will depend
largely on representation by sounds and gesture.."=20
- ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD6945.9F468220
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Does anybody know where to start with Merzbow? There =
is so=20
much and I don't know where to start. Any suggestion</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If I'm too off subject please e-mail me=20
personnally</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Simon Thibaudeau<BR>Personal: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:simon.thibaudeau@ift.ulaval.ca">simon.thibaudeau@ift.ulava=
l.ca</A><BR>Mindspell:=20
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:aag017@agora.ulaval.ca">aag017@agora.ulaval.ca</A><BR>(418=
)658-6150</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://mindspell.home.ml.org">http://mindspell.home.ml.org</A><BR=
><A=20
href=3D"http://mindspellzine.home.ml.org">http://mindspellzine.home.ml.or=
g</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Mindspell "paper" 'zine =
out=20
now!<BR>featuring: Devin Townsend, Sadus, Brutal Truth,<BR>Raison =
D'être,=20
Solar Spine and more....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Send 2$ US and=20
Canada<BR> 3$ =
World</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>to: Mindspell <BR>c/o Simon =
Thibaudeau<BR>112=20
Ste-Marie<BR>Panet<BR>G0R 2J0<BR>Canada</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>"..and so this style of =
expression will=20
depend<BR>largely on representation by sounds and gesture.."=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD6945.9F468220--
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #332
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