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Zorn List Digest       Thursday, April 16 1998       Volume 02 : Number 331



In this issue:
-
       Re: IKUE MORI Recs
       Re: Paraphrase
       Re: Lounge Lizards, and ...
       mori
       Re: mori
       Re: Tim Berne and Chris Speed April-May tours
       Re: Lounge Lizards, and ...
       James & his Giant Bitch
       Woma, etc.
       Re: James & his Giant Bitch
       Re: Cecil Taylor questions
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #330
       Cecil Taylor reissues
       Re[2]: Cecil Taylor questions
       Re: mori

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:26:13 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: IKUE MORI Recs

 On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:58:00 -0500, Dan Hewins said:

> Any recommendations?  I am intrigued and I would like to hear something
> involving her.  It doesn't neccesarily need to be a session that she leads
> either.  This is another one I don't know anything about.
>

She's an amazing instrumentalist.  She'll be playing here at one of the
Sonic Youth shows at Irving Plaza in June and there's other shows listed
at the Tzadik site (www.tzadik.com).  It's well worth your time to see
her live.

For her work, I'd recommend Garden or her collaborations Death Ambient
(with Fred Frith and Kato Hideki) and Painted Desert (with Marc Ribot
and Robert Quine).  The first two are on Tzadik and the last one is on
Avant.  Patrice Roussel has a very good discography for her at
http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/artists/mori.ikue/discog.html

Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:37:09 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Paraphrase

Chris,

I went to the Bath Festival last year, which was an expensive way to
see both Berne groups: I went with great expectations for Bloodcount -
 which were somewhat disappointed - and great trepidation about
Paraphrase - which was delightfully dissipated.  Steve
Smith's analysis is pretty accurate; but let me emphasise that Rainey
is a drummer to be SEEN - he makes Joey Baron look restrained.  I
mean that his movements seem - superficially - excessive, but to me
they seem indicative of complete immersion in the music (which is how
Baron impressed me 10 years ago).  It was a strange venue; some posh
old town house with ludicrous portraits adorning the walls, and we
were sat right at the front (a good move, even if I closed my eyes
for long stretches).  I'm reluctant to advise you to hear the album
first, cos I'm sure I wouldn't listen to it in the same way if I
hadn't seen them first ...



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:47:20 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lounge Lizards, and ...

Big Heart was one of my fave albums of the mid-80s.  But who's in the
group now?

Also: can anyone review Tomasz Stanko's BossaNossa (on GOWI),
compared to the ECM albums by the same quartet?

Also: how come, in listing the "only good stuff" on ECM, nobody
mentioned the Dave Holland Quintet albums of the 1980s, with Coleman,
Wheeler, Priester/Eubanks and Ellington/Smith.  They're bloody
brilliant!  Of course there will be lots of stuff on ECM that's not
to any individual's taste - isn't that true of all labels?  (It is
for me!)

Sean Wilkie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:06:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: mori

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Perfect Sound Forever wrote:

> For her work, I'd recommend Garden or her collaborations Death Ambient
> (with Fred Frith and Kato Hideki) and Painted Desert (with Marc Ribot
> and Robert Quine).  The first two are on Tzadik and the last one is on
> Avant.  Patrice Roussel has a very good discography for her at
> http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/artists/mori.ikue/discog.html

she also played drums with the arto lindsay in the new york no-wave band,
dna.  tzadik released a live set of theirs from cbgb's.

i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the
knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine avec
effects improvisations.  although her style of volume swells was
pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just kept
wishing that she was playing a kit.

b



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:19:47 +0200
From: Yves Dewulf <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: mori

>i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the
>knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine avec
>effects improvisations.  although her style of volume swells was
>pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just kept
>wishing that she was playing a kit.

I think this is a big problem for electronic musicians doing live
performances (especially the more compact electronic instruments like
samplers and drum-machines): the audience only sees a person behind a
table pushing buttons on a machine, even if the musician must take the
same musical decisions as somebody playing conventional
instruments.

This was the main point of criticism in local papers on the
Mori-performance of Death Ambient last year: the performance was
to cold for the critics and it looked as if she was not
touched at all by the music (as opposed to Kato Hideki on bass).
I guess the opposite is true.

YVes


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:36:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tim Berne and Chris Speed April-May tours

Let me add my "Amen" to what Steve wrote. I saw Rainey live for the first
time in February playing with Mark Helias and Ellery Eskelin. I was
sitting no more than three feet from his drumset and wasn't overcome by
bombast, even when he soloed. To me that's the mark of a great drummer:
someone who can do all that's required without raising the volume.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote:

.  And Tom Rainey is the most amazing unsung percussionist in New York
> (now that everyone knows Jim Black).  There are nights he just makes my jaw
> drop.  Some of those nights he's playing standards with Fred Hersch; others
> find him playing freestyle with Tim and/or Mark Helias.  He is Paraphrase's
> secret weapon.  You will agree, this I promise.
>

>
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:42:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Lounge Lizards, and ...

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote:

> Also: how come, in listing the "only good stuff" on ECM, nobody
> mentioned the Dave Holland Quintet albums of the 1980s, with Coleman,
> Wheeler, Priester/Eubanks and Ellington/Smith.  They're bloody
> brilliant!  Of course there will be lots of stuff on ECM that's not
> to any individual's taste - isn't that true of all labels?  (It is
> for me!)

Which reminds me of another two essential ECM artists: Meredith Monk and
Old And New Dreams...
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:50:37 -0800
From: George Grella <[e-mail]>
Subject: James & his Giant Bitch

James, some advice; stop hyperventilating before you faint, and watch
out for bruises from beating your chest.  Now let me help you out a
little here, because you surely need it.

Since personal perspective seems to be the only thing you recognize,
I'll give you some of mine; I've been playing jazz, performing
professionally, for 19 years.  For me, Jazz Is, it is what it is, never
touched in any way by "WASP hegemony" because it was never part of any
such thing [as if American culture was EVER solely WASP culture].  Even
if I was both a WASP fucktwit and a redneck simp, what would I be doing
in jazz, as such an obvious WASP hegemonist [is that anyone other than
yourself, African-Americans and Mezz Mezzrow]?  And your "point," which
may only be the need to be potty-mouthed with people who don't agree
with you, begs the question on this list, since John Zorn's work is now
explicitly, self-consciously, Radical Jewish Culture, and since Mezz
says [and if Mezz says, then you can bet anything that only a stupid
Fucker would disagree], that Jews are tainted by WASPS, then doesn't
that make Zorn a WASP hegemonist also?  A conundrum.  Of course, on the
good side is that WASPs can now take credit, country-wide, for their
part in the Civil Rights movement, via all those young Jewish kids.
Unless we look at the possibility that, outside of the entirely personal
context of things
[which means one has to reject the maxim that the personal is the
political; I'll raise my hand as the first hearty volunteer], we can't
take Mezzrow's statement as a proven quality for the entire culture.  Of

course, that was my initial point, which obviously must have been more
than provocative, like throwing napalm on the fire of your Objective
Truth.  I would be the first to admit that Mezzrow has his own
feelings, which are valid as his OWN feelings and experiences,
regardless of the accuracy of his memory or his views.  But there's an
interesting thing, there's other people who have their own feelings and
experiences,
which might be different.  One does not supercede the other, it doesn't
matter how sympathetic you or I might be to any of the particular
views.  Agree with what Mezzrow says, but just because he says it
doesn't make it true, or RIGHT.

James, the way you're acting is like someone out of an old American
Leninist-Trotskyist debate.  I'll let you judge yourself on how wise and

mature that makes you.  If you want to believe one man's experiences,
great, if you make one man's experiences the Objective Truth for all
people, than even the most innocent questioning of that is an apostasy,
and you're showing that in a big way.  I can post all the quotes you and

I want [I OWN the book, James], but it's still one man's experience.  I
could post quotes' from "Straight Life," but that's just one man's
experience.  Hell, I could find quotes of Andre Hodier essentially
complaining that Lester Young was too avant-garde, but that's not
universal aesthetic/political truth.

If you want to believe everything you read, that's your life.  I would
recommend "Bird Lives," a novel that masquerades as a biography of
Charlie Parker.  That strikes me as something that would please you.
And James, if someone disagreeing with your gross generalizations causes

you enough stomach trouble to bring your diahrrea of the mouth, then I
suggest you move back in with Mommy and Daddy and don't leave the house,

because it can be scary out there.  Or at least wear a bib.

gg


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:16:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Woma, etc.

Bernard Woma plays an instrument that sounds sort of like a Marimba, its
a pretty wild album- definately Zorn like in production as the person who
was recording it got  up in the middle and started dancing and so the
sound is supposedly worse after halfway thru.  I played it on the radio
and someone called up to complain after 8 minutes.  I didn't hear the
whole album but some other people folks around the station liked it.  TOo
bad those things are so expensive.

Also, how could someone not like TimBerne's writing? Anyway I'd go see him
because I missed him when Bloodcount came and I regret it sorely.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:33:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: James & his Giant Bitch

At 08:50 AM 4/16/98 -0800, George Grella wrote:

> And your "point," which
>may only be the need to be potty-mouthed with people who don't agree
>with you, begs the question on this list, since John Zorn's work is now
>explicitly, self-consciously, Radical Jewish Culture, and since Mezz
>says [and if Mezz says, then you can bet anything that only a stupid
>Fucker would disagree], that Jews are tainted by WASPS, then doesn't
>that make Zorn a WASP hegemonist also?  A conundrum.

Just as an aside,  I have my doubts that Mezzrow's family was particularly
immersed in Jewish culture.  Knowing a bit about the neighborhood that he
grew up in and it's ethnic makeup at the time, his family was probably one
of the few in the neighborhood that was jewish.  He grew up in Austin, which
at the time, was a sleepy bedroom comminty of mainly WASPs and some
catholics. Most jews lived in Lawndale and Douglas Park at the time, farther
south and east than Austin. Austin was a well-to-do community and I could
see how one would rebel against the rich  aspects of his surroundings, as
did many of his non-jewish neighbors and peers whom he played with.

In other words, I don't think Mezzrow'sseemingly nominal  jewishness had
much to do with it.

Rob


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:19:36 -0400
From: Jeff Schwartz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions

Sorry if someone already got to this-
A ton of Shandar stuff was reissued on CD (at budget
prices) by Jazz View, including their live Cecil, Ra, and
Ayler sets & Cecil's "Spring of Two Blue Jays" (originally
on Unit Core).  I saw them at many stores in San Francisco
a year ago & at CDNOW. They may be pirated since the
series listed inside also includes a number of bootlegs or
"audio verite" recordings.

I'm pretty sure that the 3 live Shandar discs are the same
as the Prestige "Great Concert" box, but don't sue me if
it isn't.

Any recomendations on FMP's Cecil meets the European Free
Improvisers series?
- --
Jeff Schwartz
[e-mail]
http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:43:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Sedlak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #330

> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 08:39:52 -0500
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Cecil Taylor questions
>      all: his JCOA/Mantler work). To the best of my knowledge, I'm missing
>      two recordings from that period: 'Praxis' and 'Nuits de la Fondation
>      Maeght'.
>
>      The latter (on Shandar?) is from 1969, I think, and is the only
>      recording so far as I know of Sam Rivers' brief tenure with CT. Again,
>      does anyone know if this can be found? If it is Shandar, is Robi Droli
>      planning to release it?

I have these three "Fondation" discs via some little label called JazzView
(pretty sure that that is the name).  It is the same label that reissued
"Spring of 2 Blue J-s".  All of them sound as if they were mastered
directly off someone's old vinyl copy.

> i think rivers also played on the cecil taylor concert box set on prestige.

I've always been under the impression that the prestige box is the same
thing as the three "Fondation Maeght" discs.  Anyone care to confirm?
Furthermore, in the past year Black Lion has reissued the "Great Paris
Concert."  Does this have any overlap?  Just a few months ago they also
put out a disc called "Trance."  I have a one sheet that claims it harbors
previously unreleased material, but the track listing and lineup suggests
that it is merely a 1 CD repackaging of Nefertiti (the 1962 Cafe Momarte
recordings).  Anyone know if this is an abridged disc of the
original Freedom double LP and Revenant double CD or whether these are
really alternate unissued takes?

TS


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:45:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Sedlak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cecil Taylor reissues

> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 08:39:52 -0500
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Cecil Taylor questions
>      all: his JCOA/Mantler work). To the best of my knowledge, I'm missing
>      two recordings from that period: 'Praxis' and 'Nuits de la Fondation
>      Maeght'.
>
>      The latter (on Shandar?) is from 1969, I think, and is the only
>      recording so far as I know of Sam Rivers' brief tenure with CT. Again,
>      does anyone know if this can be found? If it is Shandar, is Robi Droli
>      planning to release it?

I have these three "Fondation" discs via some little label called JazzView
(pretty sure that that is the name).  It is the same label that reissued
"Spring of 2 Blue J-s".  All of them sound as if they were mastered
directly off someone's old vinyl copy.

> i think rivers also played on the cecil taylor concert box set on prestige.

I've always been under the impression that the prestige box is the same
thing as the three "Fondation Maeght" discs.  Anyone care to confirm?
Furthermore, in the past year Black Lion has reissued the "Great Paris
Concert."  Does this have any overlap?  Just a few months ago they also
put out a disc called "Trance."  I have a one sheet that claims it harbors
previously unreleased material, but the track listing and lineup suggests
that it is merely a 1 CD repackaging of Nefertiti (the 1962 Cafe Momarte
recordings).  Anyone know if this is an abridged disc of the
original Freedom double LP and Revenant double CD or whether these are
really alternate unissued takes?

TS



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 13:55:23 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: Cecil Taylor questions




     Jeff wrote:

>Any recomendations on FMP's Cecil meets the European Free
>Improvisers series?

     Another glaring gap in my collection. When they came out, I figured
     I'd get most of them eventually, but to date have only purchased two:
     'The Hearth' with Evan Parker and Tristan Honsinger which is pretty
     nice and 'Alms/Tiergarten/Spree' with the orchestra which is superb.I
     understand the disc w/Bailey is fine (as might be expected) with Derek
     being the musician in this series who most 'bent' CT towards his
     style. Personally, I'm very curious about the duet with Louis Moholo.
     Anyone?

     Brian Olewnick



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:15:22 +0000
From: [e-mail] (Simon Hopkins)
Subject: Re: mori

Having seen Death Ambient play in London last year, I have to say that I
must disagree. While it's always a pleasure to watch a vituoso play a, er,
"real instrument", it can be a distraction. One can get caught up in the
whole technique thing. On the other hand, to watch someone like Mori sit
behind a simple box, frantically pressing buttons and footswitches, and
produce such astonishing aural results preserves some real mystery in the
whole music-making process.

Whatever, the DA gig was one of the best I attended last year.

S

>i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the
>>knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine avec
>>effects improvisations.  although her style of volume swells was
>>pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just kept
>>wishing that she was playing a kit.
>
>I think this is a big problem for electronic musicians doing live
>performances (especially the more compact electronic instruments like
>samplers and drum-machines): the audience only sees a person behind a
>table pushing buttons on a machine, even if the musician must take the
>same musical decisions as somebody playing conventional
>instruments.
>
>This was the main point of criticism in local papers on the
>Mori-performance of Death Ambient last year: the performance was
>to cold for the critics and it looked as if she was not
>touched at all by the music (as opposed to Kato Hideki on bass).
>I guess the opposite is true.
>
>YVes
>
>
>-

n. simon hopkins

a. 216 kensington park road  london  w11 1nr

t/f. (0)171 727 9329

c. (0)973 654 276

e. [e-mail]  or [e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #331
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