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Zorn List Digest       Saturday, April 11 1998       Volume 02 : Number 323



In this issue:
-
       Re: Schoolers .vs. Lovers
       Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician...
       Re: CD and artist recommendations
       Anthony Braxton
       places to play in Toronto
       essential Tom Cora recordings
       Re: Stockhausen
       Re: Schoolers .vs. Lovers
       Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks...
       Re: Stockhausen
       Re: CD and artist recommendations
       Quotes
       Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks...
       Re: stockhausen
       Re: stockhausen

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:15:59 -0800
From: George Grella <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Schoolers .vs. Lovers

Peter Risser writes:

> Also, I will say I've known many instrumentalists to award interest based solely
> on technique.  Like my one flautist friend who didn't like Jethro Tull because
> Ian whoosit overblows his flute, or the other who couldn't stand Mississippi
> Fred McDowell because he always sounded out of tune, or the recording of Cello
> Suites I love, because the guy's "phrasing was all wrong."  In the meantime,
> like I said, they rave about Steve Vai and Joe Satriani, who put out amazingly
> sterile music, but with excellent speed and technique.

Oooh, I couldn't resist this, because originally I'm a flutist, and I
loathe Jethro Tull!  Not because of his technique, but because I loathe
that 'Boots with Bells' metal music, unless it's played by Spinal Tap,
of course.

On the other hand [or the same one], given the choice between Yo-Yo Ma's
Bach Cello Suites and Rostrapovich's recording of same, I'll take Rosty,
because Ma's sound and technique is too perfect for me.  It's the music
that matters, to all of us, I'm sure.

gg

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:22:39 -0800
From: George Grella <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician...

James Douglas Knox writes:

> Something that interested me was the way Mezzrow identified so strongly
> with Afro-Americans. Like: angling to be in the *black* cell-block at
> Riker's Island(?). Which is maybe a little wierd, but definitely
> interesting in terms of his near-complete alientation from a WASP
> hegemony.

If you're keeping Mezz in the context of his life, which is jazz, what
WASP hegemony are you talking about?  I don't know of any such thing in
jazz, quite the opposite, actually [when was it ever WASP music?],
especially in the pre-WWII years.

gg

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:41:31 +0000
From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CD and artist recommendations

R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote:
>=20
> I'd like to know if anybody here can recommend (or suggest to stay away
> from) the following CDs, or offer short reviews of them, etc.:

> Ginger Baker: No Material


    The No Material set is an interesting document, At its best it sounds
sort of like Skopelitis' 1st solo album, not surprising since he more or
less was the groups leader. The album is marred, IMO, by the bass
player; Jan Kazda, who filled in for Laswell. Where the others seem like
they came to play, Kazda seems to be there to show off. The mix leaves a
lot to be desired too. But it is nice to have a recording of Sonny and
Ginger playing together.
=09
> X-Legged Sally: --all releases-- (which is best?)

    They're all great!. I started with the 2nd "Killed By Charity" and that
hooked me immediatly. They were a horn-heavy rock band, with a great
sense of humor. Definite Zappa/Beefheart influences, but with more
outside playing, and a nod to jazz composers like Carla Bley and Willem
Breuker. BTW, Pierre Vervloesem; X-L Sally's guitarist, has a couple of
really good, if somewhat uneven, solo discs that are well worth checking
out.

Rich

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:33:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Gretz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Anthony Braxton

the best place to start with Braxton would be the Dortmund (Quartet-1976)
album. This album features George Lewis on trombone, Dave Holland on Bass and
Barry Altschul on drums. It's some good shit.


jeff

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:29:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Ivan Jenkins <[e-mail]>
Subject: places to play in Toronto

Someone a couple of issues back was looking for places to play in
Toronto. I think it was for God Is My Co-Pilot.

The Music Gallery has performances of new music. Zorn played there many
years ago, doing one of his game pieces. The Rivoli has also hosted
performances of a wide range of music and events.

If you'd like, e-mail me. I can send you the local club listings. A
friend of mine also toured Canada doing off beat and unusual clubs for a
Jazz poetry performance. He might have some ideas.

I'd be glad to help out.

Yours truly,
Patrick




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:44:54 +0100
From: "allen j huotari" <[e-mail]>
Subject: essential Tom Cora recordings

It's a grey, gloomy, rainy Saturday morning here in Southern CA...and Tom
Cora is dead, alas...

While the rest of the family is out shopping, my infant daughter and I are
home alone and taking the opportunity to dig the late Tom Cora's remarkable
performance on the video by Curlew entitled "The Hardwood"
(yeah, she's too young to actually appreciate the tunes, but the tv is
turned up pretty loud so she can't help but be attracted to the glorious
racket)

if you, fellow zorn-lister, are wondering why many of us are mourning the
passing of Mr. Cora, then I urge you to investigate the above named
recording so you can not only hear but see for yourself

if the video is too pricey, then try the below named recordings featuring
Cora:

Curlew - "Bee" (cat no. Cuneiform Rune 27)
(Curlew mixes the blues grit of Mississippi delta mud with the jazz grit of
the downtown NYC asphalt and filters the concoction through Ornette
Coleman...or something to that effect..."Bee" was recorded just prior to
"The Hardwood")

Nimal - "Voix De Surface" (cat no. RecRec Music ReCDec 31)
(accompanied by Curlew drummer Pippin Barnett and members of Debile Menthol,
L', Ensemble Reye, and Begnagrad, this quintet performs an incredibly nimble
and lively mixture of rock, Eastern European folk, and jazz. Instrumentation
includes guitar, bass, drums, cello, accordion, harmonica, bouzouki...)

Skeleton Crew - "Learn to Talk/Country Of the Blinds" (cat no. RecRec Music
ReCDec 512)
(both SC lps on a single cd. On the first Cora is teamed with Fred Frith and
on the second both are joined by Zeena Parkins. True to the "one man band"
philosophy, SC employed all four limbs in performance. The result is a weird
and wonderful hybrid of rock, improvisation, and fake folk tunes played with
a "naive gusto" according to FF)

I've intentionally omitted Tom Cora's improvisational recordings here, I
hope someone can contribute an appropriate addendum for this aspect of his
career

and for more information, be sure to check out the Tom Cora discography
(painstakingly compiled by Roussel and Vuilleumier) at

http://www.nwu.edu/WNUR/jazz/artists/cora.tom/discog.html


if any Cora fans are out there and care to embellish, elaborate, or correct
the commentary above, please do so


ajh






- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:51:15 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Stockhausen

At 01:21 AM 4/11/98 -0500, Paul Chavez wrote:
>I'm curious to know if anyone can recommend a good starting point for
>Stockhausen.  I've seen the recent Ecstatic Peace release, but I'd like
>to know if there is something else I should check out first.

I'm not familiar with the Ecstatic Peace release, but where to start with
Stockhausen depends on where your interest and finances lie.  Let's assume
you don't want to start with any of the Stockhausen edition CDs, because of
their outrageous expense (if you do, start with Hymnen or Telemusik, his
two pieces for tape).  That leaves a much smaller range of choice.

If you like 20th century piano music, all of the piano pieces are available
in three volumes.  The ones up through 11 are from the 1950s, 12 and later
were released (if not written) more recently.  9, 10, and 11 are the most
interesting of these (haven't heard all the new ones yet).  9 experiments
with effects which he learned from electronic music, echoes and delays.  10
is a sprawling affair with great glissandi and arm motion.  Frederic
Rzewski wore white gloves and dusted the keyboard with powder to play it.
11 is a number of fragments which are played in any order.  Mantra is a
piano work from the early 1970s, for two pianos and live electronics.  It
represented a turning point for KS, a significant place in his output.  For
me it is the last interesting work, everything since has been part of his
opera.

Kontakte exists in two versions, for tape alone, or for tape, piano, and
percussion.  This is an excellent work, one of the first tape and
instruments pieces, with some famous effects in slowing down sounds.  I've
heard about a new recording with William Winant doing the percussion, is
this the Ecstatic Peace release you mentioned?  This would be an excellent
starting point.

Stimmung is unique, six vocalists all singing the harmonics of one note
(they have tone generators to keep in tune), with various chants.  This was
a fairly late arrival for me, and a huge surprise, as it is much more
delicate and subtle than most other KS works.  Still available on CD, I
think, and while I like and recommend it, it is completely unrepresentative
of his other work.

However, Stimmung did begin a series of works in which meditation played a
great part, and these were culminated in a series of poems upon which KS's
ensemble meditated, then performed an intuitive music based on the poems.
This series was called 'from the seven days (aus den sieben tagen)' because
KS fasted and meditated for a week before coming forth with the works.
Although they were released as a big 7 lp set, some of the works were also
released separately, and two of them are still available on Harmonia Mundi.
 The electronics were primitive (sometimes a player is credited with a
potentiometer, which is little more than a volume control), but the music
is really good for the most part.  The ensemble also included the Kontarsky
brothers on piano, so it wasn't all electronic.  If you like Gushwachs or
the Parker Electroacoustic Ensemble, these might be of interest.  I'd also
recommend Possible Worlds by his son Marcus, on CMP, if you like this kind
of music.

The only other Stockhausen works I see in most record stores are
arrangements of a series of melodies he wrote for music boxes, one for each
sign of the Zodiac, called Tierkreis.  IMHO these were not worth the fuss,
and they later were worked into his opera Michael, based on the life of the
archangel, and which goes on for seven days (Wagner rested after four, and
even the Old Testament God rested after six).  Opera is the one genre of
music which I've never enjoyed, but this whole thing seems very retro and
conservative, and the best KS works have neither of these characteristics.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:56:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Schoolers .vs. Lovers

Ian Anderson's flute would have been passable when I first heard it
almost 30 years ago if I had known he hadn't copped the style from
Rahsaan Roland Kirk.

Now it's even worse, as Anderson (I suppose) continues to recycle old licks.

Meanwhile RRK died a few years ago without earning 1/100th of what Jethro
Tull did (or 1/1,000,000 of what he was worth)

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]







On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote:

> Peter Risser writes:
>
> > Also, I will say I've known many instrumentalists to award interest based solely
> > on technique.  Like my one flautist friend who didn't like Jethro Tull because
> > Ian whoosit overblows his flute, or the other who couldn't stand Mississippi
> > Fred McDowell because he always sounded out of tune, or the recording of Cello
> > Suites I love, because the guy's "phrasing was all wrong."  In the meantime,
> > like I said, they rave about Steve Vai and Joe Satriani, who put out amazingly
> > sterile music, but with excellent speed and technique.
>
> Oooh, I couldn't resist this, because originally I'm a flutist, and I
> loathe Jethro Tull!  Not because of his technique, but because I loathe
> that 'Boots with Bells' metal music, unless it's played by Spinal Tap,
> of course.
>
> On the other hand [or the same one], given the choice between Yo-Yo Ma's
> Bach Cello Suites and Rostrapovich's recording of same, I'll take Rosty,
> because Ma's sound and technique is too perfect for me.  It's the music
> that matters, to all of us, I'm sure.
>
> gg
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:09:03 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks...

At 05:42 PM 4/11/98 +1000, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>As for Shostakovitch: I used to have an LP on the Melodya label, with 2 or
>3 scores he did for war-time Soviet films. Great and stirring:
>reminded me of Mossolov's "Zavod" a little bit. Can't find the damn thing,
>and can't remember the titles. Anyone have any info on this guy's work for
>the cinema?

I've got a Koch International recording of DS's Suites for Film and Stage,
and it opens with a 12-part Gadfly Suite, which according to the liner
notes is his 'best known and certainly the most recorded' film score,
although the movie never made it to the West.  It is wonderful!  The
overture is one of those melodramatic emotional pieces, superb.  The whole
album is a bit wearing, also including a King Lear and Hamlet suites which
are unmemorable, but Gadfly is recommended.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:17:51
From: Jesse Simon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Stockhausen

At 04:51 PM 4/11/98 -0400, Caleb Deupree wrote:

>The only other Stockhausen works I see in most record stores are
>arrangements of a series of melodies he wrote for music boxes, one for each
>sign of the Zodiac, called Tierkreis.  IMHO these were not worth the fuss,
>and they later were worked into his opera Michael, based on the life of the
>archangel, and which goes on for seven days (Wagner rested after four, and
>even the Old Testament God rested after six).  Opera is the one genre of
>music which I've never enjoyed, but this whole thing seems very retro and
>conservative, and the best KS works have neither of these characteristics.

Is Michael the same as Licht? I remember a few years ago Deutsche
Grammophon had these two Stockhausen box sets in their opera section (four
discs each). One was called _Samstag aus Licht_ and the other was
_Donnerstag aus Licht_. I always interpreted this to be a seven part opera
called Licht of which only two parts were available / written (the ones
corresponding to Sunday and Thursday). I can't imagine any human being
creating two seven day operatic extravaganzas (even one seems a little far
fetched), so I'm interested to know if there is any connection

The albums, by the way, were deleted from the catalogue and there is no
evidence that they ever existed.

cheers,
jesse


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:47:44 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CD and artist recommendations

On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:03:12 -0400  =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette wrote:
>
> I'd like to know if anybody here can recommend (or suggest to stay away
> from) the following CDs, or offer short reviews of them, etc.:
>
> Bailey/Parker/Zorn: Harras
> Bailey/Parker/Bennink: Topography of the Lungs
                ^^^^^^^^^^^
On CD, really?

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:18:27 +0500
From: "Terence Sin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Quotes

A friend recently forwarded me some quotes of composers denigrating one
another, I've put it up at http://www.myna.com/~zippy/composer.html.
Here are some examples:

"He'd be better off shoveling snow."
    --Richard Strauss on Arnold Schoenberg.

"Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving
pleasure to thousands and all you can do is scratch it."
    --Sir Thomas Beecham to a lady cellist.

"I liked the opera very much.  Everything but the music."
    --Benjamin Britten on Stravinsky's The Rakes's Progress



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:02:49 -0700
From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks...

Here's a few that are mentioned in Roy Pendergasts's "Film Music":

D.S.:

Alone
The New Babylon

S.Prokofiev:

Alexander Nevsky
Ivan the Terrible
Lieutenant Kije
Romeo and Juliet
The Love for Three Oranges

Prokofiev worked very closely with Eisenstein - sometimes the film was even
edited to the music.  As far as I know, Prokofiev refused to compose any more
film music after Eisenstein's death.  A.N. is a great film, and widely
available.  Prokofiev re-arranged the score for a larger orchestra for live
performance, which is what you hear on most recordings.  The reason he used a
smaller group originally had to do with technical difficulties in recording
(they could't fit a bigger group in the room!)

- -cappyd


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:48:08 -0400
From: stephen drury <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: stockhausen

At 08:52 AM 4/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm curious to know if anyone can recommend a good starting point for
>Stockhausen.  I've seen the recent Ecstatic Peace release, but I'd like
>to know if there is something else I should check out first.

Unfortunately, most of Stockhausen's music is not readily available on CD.
A lot of the old recordings are now property of Karlheinz himself, and his
reissues, while gorgeously done, are expensive -- and you have to buy them
from the man himself, unless you go to a certain clothing/CD store in Koln
which carries them.  The following are available commercially:
 Kontakte -- maybe the best electronic music ever created, with optional
piano and percussion -- and (on the same CD) Refrain -- for piano, vibes,
celesta.
Gruppen for 3 orchestras.  Claudio Abbado's import recording is sometimes
available at Tower.  I heard this live 4 years ago at Tanglewood and will
still remember it the day I die.
Hymnen -- electronic/collage.  Good luck finding this one!
Klavierstuck I thru XI.  Bernard Wambach's recordings of these are highly
recommended; or you can wait (plug, plug) for my performance of IX on Avant.
- -- steve


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:50:57 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: stockhausen

> Unfortunately, most of Stockhausen's music is not readily available on
CD.
> A lot of the old recordings are now property of Karlheinz himself, and
his
> reissues, while gorgeously done, are expensive -- and you have to buy
them
> from the man himself, unless you go to a certain clothing/CD store in
Koln
> which carries them.  The following are available commercially:

Surely there's a lot of second hand lps floating around though...

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #323
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