ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v02.n322

Internet Message Format | 1998-04-10 | 23KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #322
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest       Saturday, April 11 1998       Volume 02 : Number 322



In this issue:
-
       Tom Cora...
       Re: Tom Cora R.I.P.
       Re: Music School vs. Music Lover
       Re: plicky plicky plock
       CD and artist recommendations
       Stockhausen
       Re: *UN*Bargain Bins
       Re: Ken Nordine
       Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician...
       Un-Bargain Bins
       Re: "Godard" by Zorn
       Re: experimentation
       Re: wynton marsalis
       Re: marsalis city limits
       Re: soundtracks
       Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks...
       Re: Otomo's soundtracks
       Re: soundtracks
       Re: CD and artist recommendations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:20:20 +0200
From: "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tom Cora...

Bad news.

Sorry, guys, this message is in French but I am not in the mood of
translating it...  It is too sad a moment to do it.
Hope you 'll get it and forget me.



********************



18 Mars 1998, Laboratoires d'Aubervilliers (Paris).


L'homme qui est assis, la, en face de nous, sur notre droite, nous est bien
familier : sa grande silhouette, son petit gilet en maille, ses habits
sombres mais surtout et essentiellement, ce son de violoncelle qui
n'appartient qu'a lui. Pour nous, c'est le violoncelliste qui vient de New
York et qui a joue avec des grands. Ce soir, il est avec son vieil ami Fred
Frith...

Des les premiers coups d'archets, des les premiers frottements sur le bois
de l'instrument, on retrouve cet univers familier de sons, de bruits et
d'emotions. Le son est vif, brutal. Il joue avec la matiere sonore, avec le
corps de son instrument... L'improvisation court, revient, se fait
melodique, discute avec Bach, se retourne sur soi, rugit comme du rock ! Je
reve avec elle.

Creant un corde cinquieme corde avec son chevalet, il fait ce fameux son
(grave sur disque avec Roof) que j'appelle avec naivete : "le son qui rend
fou", un sorte de cri primal du violoncelle ! Un frottement harmonique qui
crisse avec des tremolos. Pour moi, c'est la voix de Tom Cora, celle que
l'on reconnait entre mille.

Ce soir-la, Tom est d'humeur fort joyeuse. Taquin, il interpelle le public
des le debut. Des clins d'oeil s'echangent avec Fred Frith : la complicite
semble grande. Il joue avec un grand sourire, on le sent serein (avec sa
famille qui l'ecoute). On voit, on entend qu'il s'amuse (autant que nous).
Il jouera intensivement, instinctivement jsqu'au bout en nous donnant un
grand moment d'improvisation.

Visiblement epuise physiquement, il ne reviendra pas rejouer au rappel.




Olivier, fennec parmi les Fennecs, qui aurait aime apprendre le violoncelle


Le Site Web du Fennec pour les musiques creatives
http://www.fennec.digiweb.fr












- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:00:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tom Cora R.I.P.

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, philz wrote:

> I'm going to miss this amazing voice, my favorite cellist ever, a monster
> on the instrument and an excellent conceptualist...

Agreed on all counts.  I met him once, and he was a hell of a nice guy,
even after a long drive in a blizzard.

Damn, damn, damn.

Chris Hamilton


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:04:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Music School vs. Music Lover

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> I cannot
> make excuses for bad musicians, but I must defend musicians who
> practice their technique in order to reach a higher goal.

Sure.  It's important to have technique adequate to the music you want to
make.  It's just a fallacy to think that there's some one level and kind
of technique required for all music.

Chris Hamilton


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:10:47 EDT
From: Dgasque <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: plicky plicky plock

In a message dated 98-04-09 21:28:24 EDT, you write:

<< okay okay okay.... someone gimme the lowdown on Henry Cow... should i shell
 out my money for this stuff?
  >>

absolutely.

=dgasque=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:03:12 -0400
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette <[e-mail]>
Subject: CD and artist recommendations

I'd like to know if anybody here can recommend (or suggest to stay away
from) the following CDs, or offer short reviews of them, etc.:

Bailey/Parker/Zorn: Harras
Bailey/Parker/Bennink: Topography of the Lungs
Br=F6tzmann/Parker/Bendian: Sacred Scrape/Secret Response
Ginger Baker: No Material
X-Legged Sally: --all releases-- (which is best?)

Also, from the following Fushitsusha releases: The Caution Appears, Gold
Blood, Allegorical Misunderstanding and Purple Trap (btw are there any
others?),  which is the noisiest, which is the most accessible, which is
the best or most representative of the band?

And where to start with Anthony Braxton?  I saw Willisau on quite a few top
20 lists and I'll probably look for it real soon, but other than that one
what is his best composed material, and conversely his best free improvised
material?

Same questions for Evan Parker, Cecil Taylor and Eugene Chadbourne.  Yeah,
there are a lot of great musicians I have (and want) to get into, but with
those massive discographies it's really hard to choose what direction to go
in.

Please reply by private e-mail if you feel things are getting a bit too
repetitive (even for this list!).  Thanks for the help.

Bruno

R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D.
Professeur titulaire
=46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive
Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke
Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec
J1K 2R1
=20



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:21:40 -0500
From: Paul Chavez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stockhausen

I'm curious to know if anyone can recommend a good starting point for
Stockhausen.  I've seen the recent Ecstatic Peace release, but I'd like
to know if there is something else I should check out first.

Paul


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:54:39 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: *UN*Bargain Bins

On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Craig Rath wrote:

> Now my question for you is:  What is the most you have spent on a single
> disc?  I'm not talking about boxed sets, just one disc, by itself.
>
> Me personally is the unofficial soundtrack to Blade Runner by Vangelis for
> which I paid $54.00.  I look back and shake my head once in a while, but
> it's still a great disc, and if I was drunk I'd probably do it again.

You wuz gypped, man - unless I'm very much mistaken, this (perfectly
legitimate and official) soundtrack is quite available at a regular price.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:58:12 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Nordine

On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote:
>
> (Any bets on whether Ken would have had the same effect on our collective
> nervous system had he NOT been such a prominent voice in American TV
> commercials throughout the '70s and '80s?)
>
He goes back even further than that - working in the '50s. Back of an LP
at home (think its 'Son of Word Jazz') he thanks Fred Astaire for having
him on the tv show Astaire hosted. I've read about it elsewhere:
apparently Astaire improvised a dance routine while Nordine was
doing his *usual* extemporisation thing!


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:08:25 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician...

Something that interested me was the way Mezzrow identified so strongly
with Afro-Americans. Like: angling to be in the *black* cell-block at
Riker's Island(?). Which is maybe a little wierd, but definitely
interesting in terms of his near-complete alientation from a WASP
hegemony.

Poor bastard was so self-deprecating, but. Talk aboutcha self-hatred...

On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Mike Beiderbecke wrote:

> Weighing in about something that happened way before my time,
>
> Mr. Waxman says;
> >Take anything Mezz sez with a large grain of salt (or maybe the type of
> >spliff Mezrow would have preferred). Let's just say he and the truth
> >were little more than distant cousins.
>
> In reply to Mr Knox who said in part;
> >> He talks about some pretty crazy binges with Bix as well...
>
> To which I add,
>
>         Too true, but the blurred memories of Mr. Mezzrow, despite their
> only glancing intersection with fact, makes for some really fun reading.
> Jazz, and the players, the way they were perceived, 20 years after the
> facts. The chapter of definitions and sample conversations is worth the
> price of admission. But a snoozing Bix being awakened for his 16 bar solo
> with the Whitman Orchestra is true.
>
>                   Ah, the fabulation of history.....
>
>
>
>
>
> ******************************
>         Just Browsing?
>    http://idt.net/~beider19
> ******************************
>
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:11:20 -0500
From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Un-Bargain Bins

J.D.Knox said:

>"On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Craig Rath wrote:

>> Now my question for you is:  What is the most you have spent on a single
>> disc?  I'm not talking about boxed sets, just one disc, by itself.
>>
>> Me personally is the unofficial soundtrack to Blade Runner by Vangelis for
>> which I paid $54.00.  I look back and shake my head once in a while, but
>> it's still a great disc, and if I was drunk I'd probably do it again.

>You wuz gypped, man - unless I'm very much mistaken, this (perfectly
>legitimate and official) soundtrack is quite available at a regular price."


You might think that, but you'd be wrong.  Shortly after the release I
bought, Vangelis finally released his "official" version of the soundtrack
(I think because he realized the unofficial one was going for unheard of
prices) but his version has less and much shorter versions of the best
songs, most noticeably "Blade Runner Blues", which is probably one of the
best things Vangelis has ever done.  I think the official version is about
7 minutes long, while the unofficial version has the full 10.5 minute
version.  I'm not saying it wasn't still an extravagant purchase, just that
the "official" release doesn't really touch what you get with the
"unofficial" version.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:13:30 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Godard" by Zorn

Name of the compilation is "Goddard, Ca Vous Chante": on Nato. I guess
that means Do You Sing? or something like that...

On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Caleb Deupree wrote:

> The tribute itself is released on CD, including the Zorn piece.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:32:49 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: experimentation

On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Perfect Sound Forever wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT) "Cappy D'Angelo" said:
>
> > By definition, experimentation suggests that the initiator of the process
> > cannot predict the end result - there is uncertainty or tentativeness.
(snip)
>
> It depends how exact you want to get with your definition of 'experimental.'
  When
> it's done in the scientific community, you start with a hypothesis that says
 'this
> will happen' or 'this won't happen'- it's something you're trying to prove or
> disprove.  Usually, if you don't get the results you want, you might try it again or
> try another tact.  There isn't a lot of guess work here- you're looking for a certain
> result so you're working within determined parameters.

In science, an experiment is designed to test yr hyposthesis: but the
point is - if your hypothesis is disproven, that's not neccesarily a bad
thing. It's (maybe) a Cagean thing, like the Buddhist axiom says:
     "Honour your mistake - it is a hidden intention".
Y'know, like Fleming (and who was his collaborator?) discovers antibiotics
or something...No, not really.

But for an experiment to be valid, you have to factor in random factors,
that you can't initially predict. Designing the *process*, and executing
the design, become as important as the outcome.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:57:42 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wynton marsalis

On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:

>     Oh it's W. Marsalis you're talking about. Isn't he some
> classical music administrator looking for a set repretoire that can only
> be played in well-appointed halls? What does he have to do with free
> improvisation?

Got it in one feller (and liked the way you put it, also!) Marsalis
programmed jazz at the Lincoln Centre for years (still?) and turned the
place into a mausoleum.

Unrelated (but even more irritating): couple months back; he and his
wretched orchestra are brought to Australia at huge expense to do the
local arts festivals. Which is maybe fine - I know some people like his
stuff - but I would very much prefer that someone a bit more deserving of
our notice was toured down here.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:04:45 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: marsalis city limits

On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote:

> It's the "music lovers" whose dollars are supporting all the dishonest,
> emotionless, trite, cliched and dull pop music [of all stripes and
> styles] that deluges the world today.  It is the "music lovers" whose

Dunno about this - *pop* music is hardly any more possessing of these
qualities than jazz, classical, rock, blah per se...

I heard "Nutbush City Limits" the other day, wandering around a record
store. And I swear - that is a freakin' strange piece of music - much
more than anything I've ever heard by FMN, for example (that might get me
in trouble, but what the hey).


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:37:05 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: soundtracks

On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Michael Sherry wrote:

> With Zorn's focus on music for films, has there been much discussion here
> about scores for movies?  I am not talking about the movie compilations
> using lots of different rock numbers but the more organic music composed
> for movies yet capable of standing on its own, such as the scores by
> Bernard Herrmann.  And can anyone recommend great movie scores from now
> or yesteryear?  I heard that Psycho and oddly enough seventh Voyage of
> Sinbad were particularly good.

Herrmann is highly recommended: in addition to titles mentioned elsewhere,
you might want to check out Taxi Driver and North by Northwest.

Morriconne, also. Dead prolific, but: occasionally I'll scare up a pile of
old Italian imports (vinyl!) and not all are equally great. Gui La Testa
is a nice one I got recently. Heretic: Exorcist 2 is a hoot!

Mancini is plenty great, also, but I don't know so much about his work.
"Touch of Evil" is recommended.

John Barry definitely deserves a mention. I much prefer his older stuff -
I have a battered copy of "Beat Girl" that is always on household
high-rotation. Goldfinger, Thunderball, Ipcress File, lots more. His
work is as instantly recognisable as

Lalo Schifrin's. Can't give you too many titles by this guy, but I
love his "Enter The Dragon" soundtrack - its got the funk, plus Bruce
Lee's vocalisations spliced in (I like to imagine Audio Sports with
Yamatsuka Eye sounds like this, but its probably not as good).

Something great I heard recently was the score for "Johnny got his gun" -
an old movie about the original basket case, tapping out
k-i-l-l-m-e-k-i-l-l-m-e with his eyelids at the nurse!

Cartoon scores by Carl Stallings and Scott Bradley are around: but I would
personally like for more of the MGM cartoon soundtracks to get a release -
I saw a Tom and Jerry cartoon recently with v nice interjections from
theremin and electric guitar.

Rhino has released 2 comps of 'Crime jazz', which are fine collections of
work in this genre: tho' I'm still hoping for the release of the full
scores to some of those movies.

Heck: there's heaps more. Stuff that Zorn covers is a good place to start.
All the stuff I've listed is out on disc, but a lot of older stuff - and
original recordings on vinyl - is dead hard to find: seemingly,
soundtracks were once a very specialised taste, and pressed in limited
runs.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:42:05 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks...

On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote:

> Honnegger's work for several movies.  There's famous film music by
> Prokofiev and Shostakovich, of course.  Ry Cooder has done a lot of geat

Prokofiev I know: didn't he score Eisenstein's "Ivan The Terrible"? Never
heard it, but I bet its great.

As for Shostakovitch: I used to have an LP on the Melodya label, with 2 or
3 scores he did for war-time Soviet films. Great and stirring:
reminded me of Mossolov's "Zavod" a little bit. Can't find the damn thing,
and can't remember the titles. Anyone have any info on this guy's work for
the cinema?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:48:52 +1000 (EST)
From: James Douglas Knox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Otomo's soundtracks

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Julien Quint wrote:

> On the original soundtracks subject: I found recently the original soundtrack
> for the movie "The Blue Kite" by none other than Otomo Yoshihide. The music is
> very beautiful, a main theme repeated different times with variations (even
> played with toy instruments...) as well as some dialogue excerpts from the

Yes: a great score to a haunting and beautiful film. Parts of this
soundtrack are included on Ground Zero's "Null and Void"
>
> It's on Milan Asia and also has short but sweet liner notes by Otomo. This was
> his first film score, and it's a nice piece of work. I know that he composed
> other film music since (for at least seven other movies according to the
> Internet Movie Database), does anyone know about other film scores available?
>
Other stuff is available on the (Hong Kong) Sound Factory label, but I
can't remember which particular titles...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:44:09 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: soundtracks

> Something great I heard recently was the score for "Johnny got his gun" -
> an old movie about the original basket case, tapping out
> k-i-l-l-m-e-k-i-l-l-m-e with his eyelids at the nurse!

This would be the film used for Metallica's "One" video?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:52:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CD and artist recommendations

I'll leave the other folks to other people, but in terms of Cecil Taylor,=
=20
the problem, is I haven't heard a bad record he's made (with the=20
possible exception of the Pablo duets with Mary Lou Williams, which are a=
=20
bit diffuse).

The decision you have to make is how "out" do you want to get with=20
Taylor. The man has been recording since 1955 and while some of his stuff=
=20
at that time was considered far-out, now it just sounds like sped up=20
bebop. For my money, I'd take Taylor straight up -solo

Indent and Silent Tongues (both on Arista Freedom)
For Olim (Soul Note)

Then solo and duo

In East Berlin with Gunther Sommer (two CDs FMP)

Trio: Celebrated Blazons with William Parker & Tony Oxley (FMP)

Quintet: Live in Bologna with Parker, Carlos Ward, Leroy Jenkins and=20
Thurman Barker (Leo) and
Dark To Themselves with Jimmy Lyons (the Johnny Hodges to his Ellington);=
=20
Raphe Malik, David S. Ware and Marc Edwards (Enja)=20

Sextet: Conquisitor with Bill Dixon, Lyons, Henry Grimes, Alan Silva and=20
Andrew Cyrille (Blue Note) and
The Cecil Taylor Unit with Lyons, Malik, Sirone, Ramsey Ameen and Ronald=20
Shannon Jackson

Larger groups: Unit Structures (Blue Note) including Ken McIntyre,
Olu Iwa (Soul Note) with Brotzmann and Frank Wright and Always A Pleasure=
=20
(FMP) with Charles Gayle

One early reissue of taylor's was called "The World Of Cecil Taylor" and=20
indeed it's all out there to explore.

salut

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]









On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?R=3DE9mi?=3D Bissonnette wrote:

> I'd like to know if anybody here can recommend (or suggest to stay away
> from) the following CDs, or offer short reviews of them, etc.:
>=20
> Bailey/Parker/Zorn: Harras
> Bailey/Parker/Bennink: Topography of the Lungs
> Br=F6tzmann/Parker/Bendian: Sacred Scrape/Secret Response
> Ginger Baker: No Material
> X-Legged Sally: --all releases-- (which is best?)
>=20
> Also, from the following Fushitsusha releases: The Caution Appears, Gold
> Blood, Allegorical Misunderstanding and Purple Trap (btw are there any
> others?),  which is the noisiest, which is the most accessible, which is
> the best or most representative of the band?
>=20
> And where to start with Anthony Braxton?  I saw Willisau on quite a few t=
op
> 20 lists and I'll probably look for it real soon, but other than that one
> what is his best composed material, and conversely his best free improvis=
ed
> material?
>=20
> Same questions for Evan Parker, Cecil Taylor and Eugene Chadbourne.  Yeah=
,
> there are a lot of great musicians I have (and want) to get into, but wit=
h
> those massive discographies it's really hard to choose what direction to =
go
> in.
>=20
> Please reply by private e-mail if you feel things are getting a bit too
> repetitive (even for this list!).  Thanks for the help.
>=20
> Bruno
>=20
> R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D.
> Professeur titulaire
> Facult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive
> Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke
> Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec
> J1K 2R1
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -
>=20
>=20

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #322
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]