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v02.n317
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1998-04-08
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #317
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, April 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 317
In this issue:
-
Carol Emanuel
Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish)
Re: time sigs
Math Rock & Steve Albini
experimentation
re:time sigs
Re: Time sigs
the residents
Re: the residents
Re: the residents
sanborn
Re: the residents
Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset
Bet on Jazz or beton jazz
Odp: the residents
Re: Caroliner, Secret Chiefs to tour Aus...
Re: Math Rock
[none]
Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn
Roscoe Mitchell in NYC
Re: Bet on Jazz or beton jazz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 98 17:02:24 -0300
From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar
Subject: Carol Emanuel
God-awful cover, that's right, but an amazing work of Carol.
The first (by Evan Lurie) and the third (by Guy Klucevsek) songs worth
the price of the disc.
Try this one!
- -Hugo
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:06:13 EDT
From: QUESOMALO <QUESOMALO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish)
In a message dated 98-04-07 03:55:08 EDT, fripp@ibm.net writes:
<< >> What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories? >>
I still get excited thinking about the time that I was cleaning out the
teacher's lounge during a service day at my school (it's a quaker school so we
have quite a few of these) and I found a copy of Massacre's Killing Time in a
dusty stack of LPs. It was between a Tal Farlow record and a Charlie Daniel's
band record. The lounge didn't even have a record player so I assumed that it
no longer needed to live there. I had been looking for that album for quite a
while and it is still one of my favorites.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:17:16 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: time sigs
Dan Hewins writes:
> I'm in agreement with whomever it was (sorry, I forgot) that said he
> dispenses with the number underneath in the time signatures. There are
> minor differences in the feels of 4/4 and 8/8 in many cases and to me (and
> my band) it's more worth while to say a tune is in 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10,
> etc. In many cases I feel that 3 is different than 6... In most cases, the
> differences are the length of the melodic phrase or the bassline or
> whatever might signify a "1" in the music. That's why I originally said "6
> and 7" makes more sense to me than "13" does. Unless, of course, the
> phrase is 13 beats long and not more like 6 then 7. Now that I think about
> it, this is sort of a strange thread we've got here...
This is all well and good as long as you maintain a single unit of beat,
e.g. 4/4, 7/4, 6/4, 11/4. But once you start mixing units, which is
beyond common in 20th century music, then you had better keep track of
the changes; e.g. 4/4 -> 3/8. The initial unit is quarter, but you have
to keep a solid feel of what the eighth-note subdivision is.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:22:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Toby Dodds <toby@seanet.com>
Subject: Math Rock & Steve Albini
The genre owes a lot to Steve Albini, who recorded and captured much
of the definitive math rock sound before it had the
now-loosely-applied classification.
My short list has got to begin with Breadwinner and Table. Both
bands nailed down the formula for extremely tight execution of
intricate, weighty music, and both worked briefly with Albini. His
recordings of Don Caballero, Dazzling Killmen and Johnboy are also
legendary.
Today he pays the bills by occasionally recording less *admirable*
bands, but his influence is still as important as ever.
My personal favorite Albini-recorded record:
Faucet "self-titled" disc on Southern (1995). You can read my review
of it here:
http://www.pillowfight.com
Table info:
http://www.droolboy.com/bands/table/index.html
Mark Wieman / Pillowfight
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA>
Subject: experimentation
I had hoped that that one would initiate debate - you people are great!
I think the Varese quote on experimentation is right on point. When
Varese composed music, he knew exactly how he wanted it to sound -
he was a great orchestrator, and had very much in mind the precise
"colors" he wanted the music to express. There was no experimentation
once he began to compose the work.
If FNM compose a set of tunes, then go into the studio and record
those tunes in the manner which results in the album they set out to
record, where is the experimentation? Inevitably there is initial
experimentation in the conception of the ideas which will become
the compositions, but is there experimentation in the execution
of those compositions?
By definition, experimentation suggests that the initiator of the process
cannot predict the end result - there is uncertainty or tentativeness.
Composers such as Varese (or Stravinsky, or Zorn with respect to his
"composed" music) are masters of their trade in part because they can
accurately predict the result when they notate a composition. Where is
the experiment? Music can be innovative, eclectic, and unpredictable
(to the listener) without being experimental.
Contrast this to the first time Cage put 20 radios in a room and swept
across the frequencies - I would suggest that this was experimental -
i.e. "what is this going to sound like?" (and will always be indeterminate
to the extent that one cannot predict what sounds will be broadcast by
the transmitters at the time of the performance).
To label music "experimental" solely because it is innovative or eclectic
assumes a definition of experimental of which I am unaware (and strips it
of the meaning that I currently assume).
I would suggest that the most experimental aspect of FNM's albums is
whether or not their record company is going to make any profit (i.e.
whether people are going to buy it).
Am I completely off the mark?
Cappy D'Angelo
Student at Law - Intellectual Property
Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering
Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion
Victoria, B.C., CANADA
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:06:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA>
Subject: re:time sigs
For those of you who never notate or read notated music, and never use
conductors, the difference between these may not be relevant - as long as
you can work out where you want the accents. It is otherwise usually
helpful to have a time signature in order to determine heavy or subtle
accents where they are consistent in a work (or particular idiom). Eg 3/4
is usually assumed to be waltz-like, whereas 6/8 is usually assumed to be
gigue-like.
Where accents are not meant to be implied unless specifically notated,
composers often do away with them altogether (see Satie's Messe des
Pauvres for an example of this). Other technicalities, such as beaming,
are usually different between, for example, 3/4 (eights grouped in 2 or 4)
and 6/8 (eights grouped in threes). One difference between 4/4 and 8/8 is
that a traditional conductor would assume to conduct the former "in 4" and
the latter "in 8". If you're sightreading with a ensemble, not knowing
this could be embarrassing!
Cappy D'Angelo
Student at Law - Intellectual Property
Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering
Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion
Victoria, B.C., CANADA
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:50:40 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Time sigs
> I'm in agreement with whomever it was (sorry, I forgot) that said he
> dispenses with the number underneath in the time signatures. There are
> minor differences in the feels of 4/4 and 8/8 in many cases and to me
(and
> my band) it's more worth while to say a tune is in 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10,
> etc. In many cases I feel that 3 is different than 6... In most cases,
the
> differences are the length of the melodic phrase or the bassline or
> whatever might signify a "1" in the music. That's why I originally said
"6
> and 7" makes more sense to me than "13" does. Unless, of course, the
> phrase is 13 beats long and not more like 6 then 7. Now that I think
about
> it, this is sort of a strange thread we've got here...
It's true that there isn't a difference really between 3/8 and 3/4, or 4/8
and 4/4. But there is actually quite a difference between 8/8, 4/4 and 2/2
and the other simple duples. Just as an example, I was trying to arrange
Zorn's "Sex Fiend", and found that the opening groove (right after the
intro) seemed completely wrong in 4/4, it needed to be notated in 2/2,
because of the accents.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:09:31 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: the residents
What would people recommend as good Residents? I already have "Hell!" but
that's it. I'm also wondering which album(s) have the song "Constantinople"
on them?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:22:04 -1000
From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk)
Subject: Re: the residents
>What would people recommend as good Residents?
1. ESKIMO
2. MEET THE RESIDENTS
3. THE COMMERCIAL ALBUM
4. THE THIRD REICH AND ROLL
5. MARK OF THE MOLE
> I'm also wondering which album(s) have the song "Constantinople"
>on them?
I believe this is on:
6. DUCK STAB
It's almost all great, but these albums are a place to start.
- - Steve
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:42:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca>
Subject: Re: the residents
Julian:
Three albums you need to pick up by the Residents are:
1. Third Reich and Roll
2. Buster and Glen
3. Eskimo ****************** A must!!!!
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Julian wrote:
> What would people recommend as good Residents? I already have "Hell!" but
> that's it. I'm also wondering which album(s) have the song "Constantinople"
> on them?
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:08:58 MDT
From: "Jonas Thompson" <swinginjoe@hotmail.com>
Subject: sanborn
sanborn's presence on diminutive mysteries still surprises me, but
hemphill himself makes comments in the liner notes that imply that he is
the connection between sanborn and berne.
at first i thought sanborn sounded surprisingly good on berne's album,
but the more i listen, it seems that he is imitating the style, and
doesn't really mean what he is playing.
any opinions of his spy vs. spy playing?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:46:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: the residents
> Three albums you need to pick up by the Residents are:
>
> 1. Third Reich and Roll
> 2. Buster and Glen
> 3. Eskimo ****************** A must!!!!
And then there's the one where they do their own version of a James Brown
live show, and then some covers of Gershwin (!).
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:52:26 +0200
From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset
> Here's the list again - Tehillim is on it, as is *both* Come Out and It's
> Gonna Rain. But Phase Patterns *and* Violin Phase are *not* on it.
I see both Electric Counterpoint en New York Counterpoint are on the
list but there was at least one other Counterpoint, I
think it was called Vermont Counterpoint (for clarinets, if I'm
remembering well).
YVes
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:13:41 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl>
Subject: Bet on Jazz or beton jazz
>BTW: If your cable system gets the BET ON JAZZ station, you can see
>Night Music reruns several times a day. Woo-hoo! (I think their Web
>page is http://www.betonjazz.com/ but I could be wrong. A web search
>should find it.)
Funny: www.betonjazz.com - for me it means: beton jazz, concrete-jazz. Like:
the jazz that is closed for any new ideas. I could have Bet on Jazz, anybody
can tell me if this station is worth having? Do they play concrete-jazz or good
jazz too? I don't expect Zorn in lunch time, but...
____________________________________________________________________
Artur Nowak
www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:12:19 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl>
Subject: Odp: the residents
>What would people recommend as good Residents? I already have "Hell!" but
>that's it. I'm also wondering which album(s) have the song "Constantinople"
>on them?
If you like songs and funny lyrics, a good record to start is "Commercial
Album". If you won't like this record, you won't like the Residents; this record
is typical for their sense of humor (BTW: does ZORN has sense of humor? Anybody
knows?). First four albums are great (NOT in terms of sound quality, be prepared
for lo-fi):
- - "MEET THE RESIDENTS"
LP RALPH 02.1974.
- - "THE THIRD REICH'N'ROLL"
LP RALPH (RR1075) 01.02.1976.
- - "FINGERPRICE"
LP RALPH (RR1276) 02.1977.
- - "NOT AVAILABLE"
LP RALPH (RR1174) 1978.
"Eskimo" is one of a kind - this is some sort of eskimo-country-music played on
analog synths. The whole album illustrates short stories included in the
booklet. "For maximum enjoyment, this record should be listened to with
headphones while reading the enclosed verbal accounts of what you hear. The disc
should be played in its entirety and in the proper sequence of sides. A relaxed
state of mind is essential. Warm clothing or a blanket should be within easy
reach" - from liner notes.
I don't recommend "Big Bubble" - what the hell is this record about? The only
bad Resident's album I know.
"Pal TV LP" is very nice, BTW: is the CD available?
"13th Anniversary Show - Live in Japan"
"Stars and Hank Forever" - first side: remakes of Hank Williams country-songs, I
LOVE Residents' versions, they became some kind of "hits", "Kaw-Liga" was
remixed many times (not only by Residents themselves), the version on this album
has original drums samples taken from Michael Jacksons "Billy Jean" - Residents
were sample-somebody-and-make-your-own-music pioneers! The second side is music
of John Philip SOUSA (you all Americans know him well!) arranged for
supermarkets (or cyrcus).
Last 10 years were not so good, as the first 10, I like "King and Eye", but the
rest is too smooth and clean (DDD, E-mu samplers and Shure microphones).
Highly recommended are their videos, and CD-ROMs. Early '80 videos were made on
Apple - you can imagine these 8 colours less-then-VGA graphics!
"Constantinople" is available on:
- - "THE BEST OF RAPLH RECORDS"
2LP RALPH 1982.
VERY good compilation!
- - "DUCK STAB"
EP
- - "DUCK STAB / BUSTER AND GLEN"
CD
- - "PLEAE DO NOT STEAL IT!"
LP 1979 - limited <1000 copies
- - "ASSORTED SECRETS"
tape - limited <2000 copies
- - "LIVE IN THE USA"
CD
- - "LIVE IN HOLLAND"
CD
More info on: http://www.residents.com/
I you will get "Please do not steal it" - please let me know ;-)
Artur
____________________________________________________________________
Artur Nowak
www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 04:18:14 EDT
From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Caroliner, Secret Chiefs to tour Aus...
In a message dated 98-04-05 23:59:25 EDT, you (James Douglas Knox) wrote:
<< Have you heard any of the LPs by Caroliner? Some great things happening
there, with (I think) Trey Spruance or Trevor Dunn onboard. Someone here
will know. Some of the Amarillo 7-inchs are v funny in a special way,
also. >>
I agree- Caroliner LPs are worth the search. I got mine from Good as
Any...Better 'n' Some (Dan sells them for about as cheap as anybody, and seems
to keep most of them in stock.) Crazy noise, and the most irritating vocalist
you'll ever hear...but that's a good thing.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 04:18:18 EDT
From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Math Rock
In a message dated 98-04-07 06:43:53 EDT, you (J.T. de Boer) write:
<< Cynic-Focus; The band who delivered their drummer ans guitarplayer to
(IMHO) the best metal album ever made; Human by Death. Cynic does also
'focus' on a combination of metal and jazz. They're not as agressive
as Meshuggah, but their songs are beautiful: based in the 70's
jazzrock tradition. The music is rather easy to listen to, partly because of
the very strong (in a musical sense) dynamics. Very good musicians. >>
Been looking for these Cynic CDs (I think there's 2 of them.) Anyone know a
dealer who still carries them?
np: RRK- Rip, Rig, and Panic
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:10:43 +0200
From: "D. Gschwend Gschwend D. Atelier" <gda@pingnet.li>
Subject: [none]
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 19:32:45 -0500
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn
IOUaLive1 wrote:
>
> They have played live together, in "Spy Vs. Spy". At at least one show, there
> was Zorn, Berne, and Sanborn reading Zorn's charts and blowing like mad.
There is some footage of this floating around. It was a part of a
documentary called "Put Blood In The Music" that was aired on PBS about
10 years ago. Besides the Spy vs Spy clip, there is a scene shot inside
Zorn's apartment as he goes through his LP collection.
Rich
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 08:40:58 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Roscoe Mitchell in NYC
Roscoe Mitchell will be having a 20th anniversary performance of his
LRG/The Maze/S II Examples on Monday, April 27 at 7:30 at the Tribeca
Performing Arts Center on 199 Chambers St.
Line-up includes: Joseph Jarman, George Lewis, Leo Smith, Doug Ewart,
Malachi Favors, Tani Tabbal and others.
Sounds promising, to say the least.
Brian Olewnick
Listening to: Braxton's 'Dona Lee' (sic)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:34:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Bet on Jazz or beton jazz
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Artur Nowak wrote:
> Funny: www.betonjazz.com - for me it means: beton jazz, concrete-jazz. Like:
> the jazz that is closed for any new ideas. I could have Bet on Jazz, anybody
> can tell me if this station is worth having? Do they play concrete-jazz or good
> jazz too? I don't expect Zorn in lunch time, but...
If concrete jazz has any relation to musique concrete, odds are that it'll
show up on Tzadik eventually :-)
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #317
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