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1998-04-07
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #316
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, April 8 1998 Volume 02 : Number 316
In this issue:
-
Re: Faith No More
Re: Re[3]: math rock
Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #315
Re: Don Byron
Re: dumb
Varese (spelling and "sound" bites)
Time sigs
Re: math rock/Dr. Nerve
"Godard" by Zorn
Re: "Godard" by Zorn
Re: "Godard" by Zorn
Carol Emanuel
Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset
Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset
Re: ECM
Re: Carol Emanuel
Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn
Re: Steve Reich boxset
Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset
new Tzadik
Re: ECM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:22:55 -0300
From: Gabriel Lichtmann <licht@bancaria.com.ar>
Subject: Re: Faith No More
If you are talking about me, I've never said I was dissapointed of
someones musical tastes, I just said I was disappointed of some peoples
narrow views regarding what should be called experimental. I respect all
musical genres and I would never judge someone by what they listen to.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:46:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Re[3]: math rock
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote:
> What's the difference between 4/4 and 8/8. Or 3/4 and 6/8. I can't tell. I've
> had people try to explain it to me, but to no avail.
6/8 often has a duple feel on top of the triplets... or in
non-doublespeak, the "one" is stronger in the first triplet than the
second.
> And when someone says, 31, yeah, you know it's probably 8/8/8/7, cuz if it were
> 6/10/7/8, they'd say that instead.
A lot of Balkan rhythms put things together as strings of twos and threes,
so you get patterns like Bada-yada-yadada-bada-yadada-bada-yada (which is
a sixteen that definitely isn't an eight or a four).
A relevant joke I heard a long time ago: someone has a gig playing the
percussion with a group in an ethnic restaurant of some sort. On his own,
he starts getting really into jazz. One night, when he gets a chance to
solo, he plays a letter-perfect arrangement of a straightahead Art Blakey
recording. Afterwards, the proprietor is furious and threatens to fire
him: "You will play the music the way our customer are used to hearing
it: the groove is in 37 with the downbeats on 1 and 23!"
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:55:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Joseph Zitt wrote:
> BTW: If your cable system gets the BET ON JAZZ station, you can see
> Night Music reruns several times a day. Woo-hoo! (I think their Web
> page is http://www.betonjazz.com/ but I could be wrong. A web search
> should find it.)
Mea culpa: it's http://www.betnetworks.com/jazz/home.html
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:21:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #315
the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 is QUITE different being that the 6 eighth
notes of 3/4 are played with an agogic stress on 1,3,and5 whereas 6/8 the
stress is on 1 and 4. two totally different feels.
jeff
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:40:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: Don Byron
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, patRice wrote:
> hi william!
>
> what kind of political stuff is don byron involved in? can you maybe
> tell me sthg about this? thanks!
>
> patRice
Sorry, not to say that he is running for political office, but that most
of his work has some sort of political slant to it- from Tuskeegee
Experiments to the song titles on "6 Musicians" (haven't heard it though-
any thoughts) to Bug Music. I enjoy this aspect of his work in that it
gives focus to what he is doing. But I wonder if he isn't too preoccupied
with the political stuff at the expense of putting out music. I was just
trying to think of a reason why he has put out so few albums, especially
for a jazz-type musician.
Also, when I saw him last summer on the bug music tour, he played a few
songs with just the rhythm section or with the trumpet player added, and
they were all older songs. I think he tends to be a good writer, but
seemingly not a prolific one.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 03:17:34 -0300
From: Gabriel Lichtmann <licht@bancaria.com.ar>
Subject: Re: dumb
I'm not going to waste my precious time explaining something which I
think should be obvious to anyone in this list. My advice to you is to
start reading something else besides "______(fill with your instrument of
choice) Player" and go through my message carefully and you'll understand
what I was trying to get at. Besides, if you want to start a serious
discussion you should try harder than "duh duh duh blah blah blah i dunno
what im talking about duh duh", I can help you with that if you want.
Perhaps reading Greil Marcus "Lipstick Traces" will help you, it's a bit
longer than the last issue of "_______ Player", but I'm sure you'll manage.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:08:01 -0700
From: "Allen Gittelson" <Allen.Gittelson@eng.efi.com>
Subject: Varese (spelling and "sound" bites)
You will see his first name spelled both as Edgar and as Edgard. I
personally regard the Edgard spelling as correct, yet I failed to use
that spelling in my previous email that contained the quote. Also, note
that often you will see an accent mark over his last name, and it's
probably not practical for me to figure out how to enter the right
character in my email so that you may all see it. You may also see
variations on the spelling of his last name. He is not a native of the
USA so, any spelling of his name in USA English is an approximation of
another language. He was born in France.
It is true that Varese did not include Indeterminacy in his music.
Rather he used the term "Organized Sound" often to describe the music he
created.
Also, the full quote is actually:
"I do not write experimental music. I do my experimenting before I write
my music. After that, it is the listener who must experiment" -- Edgard
Varese
If you are interested further in written material about him, I suggest
you visit http://www.mala.bc.ca/~mcneil/varese.htm or your local library
or book store. There are quite a few interesting reads to be had. If
you read all that is written, you of course are less likely to take the
"quotes" out of context.
I do think that there is a quite valid point made about taking people
"out of context". It is quite a common practice today, as is the
practice of not verifying sources. Just check Negativland's Helter
Stupid album and notes if you need further proof from just one such
example. I worked in "professional" radio for a while and I can tell
you that many of the news people are not always the most informed or
aware humans on this earth.
Happy listening,
Allen
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:08:48 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Time sigs
I'm in agreement with whomever it was (sorry, I forgot) that said he
dispenses with the number underneath in the time signatures. There are
minor differences in the feels of 4/4 and 8/8 in many cases and to me (and
my band) it's more worth while to say a tune is in 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10,
etc. In many cases I feel that 3 is different than 6... In most cases, the
differences are the length of the melodic phrase or the bassline or
whatever might signify a "1" in the music. That's why I originally said "6
and 7" makes more sense to me than "13" does. Unless, of course, the
phrase is 13 beats long and not more like 6 then 7. Now that I think about
it, this is sort of a strange thread we've got here...
On the subject of the list, I've noticed on some Masada discs that a tune
in 6/[4-8] was track 6 on the disc. Also, one of my favorites on Masada 5
is the on that's in 5/[4-8]. I know there are a few in 7 but I don't know
if any of them are on Masada 7 or are track 7 on any disc. Oh, that cute
tune on 7 called "Bacharach" is in 5... Pretty damn good use of 5, I have
to say.
This makes me think of those Dead songs, "Estimated Prophet" (in 7) and
"Playing in the Band" (in 10). I think the Dead was good at having songs
in odd time signatures but not making it obvious that they were in odd time
signatures. That is how I like to hear odd times used. I never liked
songs in 7 that sound like there's a beat chopped off the end. That's no
good.
Well then...
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:27:25 EDT
From: CuneiWay <CuneiWay@aol.com>
Subject: Re: math rock/Dr. Nerve
peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote:
>Also, math rock can be done in 4/4, by turning things around in three
measures
>instead of the usual rock four, or by adding silences in interesting places.
Yes it can.
I stayed out of this discussion, but will now jump in & tie it to one of the
original posts re: math rock/Dr. Nerve.
If you look at the scores for much of the material on Nerve's "Skin" CD, you
will see that an amazing amount of it, considering how convuluted it sounds,
is in 4/4 or 3/4, but with very unusual internal timings & rests.
So, please stop comparing Doctor Nerve to Dream Theatre if you haven't heard
them!!
:-)
Steve Feigenbaum
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:28:54 -1000
From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk)
Subject: "Godard" by Zorn
Hello... new to the list and a question:
I had an LP several years ago, from maybe the mid-80s, that was a tribute
to J-L Godard. Featured artists such as Arto Lindsay. The longest track,
and the reason I bought it, was a piece by John Zorn called, I think, just
"Godard"?
It was about 15 minutes or so, with lots of musicians, major studio
editing, shifting genres often in the manner of "Spillane".
Does anyone know if this piece has appeared on any CD? I've been scanning
the "Film Works" series, but don't see it there.
It's an amazing work, it got me into Zorn in the first place. Anyone else
remember it?
- - Steve
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:35:06 -0400
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: "Godard" by Zorn
>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Funk <sfunk@pop.adn.com> writes:
Stephen> Hello... new to the list and a question: I had an LP
Stephen> several years ago, from maybe the mid-80s, that was a
Stephen> tribute to J-L Godard. Featured artists such as Arto
Stephen> Lindsay. The longest track, and the reason I bought it,
Stephen> was a piece by John Zorn called, I think, just "Godard"?
Stephen> Does anyone know if this piece has appeared on any CD?
Stephen> I've been scanning the "Film Works" series, but don't see
Stephen> it there.
The tribute itself is released on CD, including the Zorn piece.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:38:30 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: "Godard" by Zorn
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:28:54 -1000 Stephen Funk wrote:
>
> Hello... new to the list and a question:
>
> I had an LP several years ago, from maybe the mid-80s, that was a tribute
> to J-L Godard. Featured artists such as Arto Lindsay. The longest track,
> and the reason I bought it, was a piece by John Zorn called, I think, just
> "Godard"?
>
> It was about 15 minutes or so, with lots of musicians, major studio
> editing, shifting genres often in the manner of "Spillane".
>
> Does anyone know if this piece has appeared on any CD? I've been scanning
> the "Film Works" series, but don't see it there.
Nato put out the LP, and later the CD version.
Zorn has plans to get GODARD out on his Tzadik. According to Larry Ochs:
"the old Godard piece is being released early next year with a new
suite of piece also dedicated to Godard that has yet to be recorded
(but will be soon.)" [September 4, 1996]
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:46:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Carol Emanuel
I was looking on the Koch Jazz page and I saw an album by Carol Emanuel,
part time harp player with Zorn (song 5 on Filmworks I for example), with
music written by Zorn, Evan Lurie, Guy Klucevsek, A. Coleman, Horvitz,
Ehrlich, Previte, Frisell, and Butch Morris. Anyone heard this? I realize
its been out for a while, but it sounds interesting at least on paper.
Thanks in advance.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:53:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@nathan.enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com and Patrice said:
> I also didn't see Telhillim.
> And only It's Gonna Rain or Come Out, but I can't remember which one....
> Or Melodica (another tape phase piece using a quick four note sax line), but
> that's okay. :)
>
> PeterR
>
> ===
> Besides PENDULUM MUSIC, that Reich has never recorded, it seems that PHASE
> PATTERNS was also missing from the list recently posted.
>
> Patrice.
Here's the list again - Tehillim is on it, as is *both* Come Out and It's
Gonna Rain. But Phase Patterns *and* Violin Phase are *not* on it.
Three Movements
Electric Counterpoint
Different Trains
The Cave: Excerpt(s)
Proverb
Nagoya Marimbas
City Life
**Come Out
Piano Phase
**It's Gonna Rain
Four Organs
Drumming
Music for Mallet Instruments, Voices and Electric Organ
Clapping Music
Six Marimbas
Music for 18 Musicians
Eight Lines
**Tehillim
Desert Music
New York Counterpoint
Sextet
The Four Sections
I don't think Nonesuch ever posited that the box was a *complete*
collection of his works from 1966-96, but it *is* a huge majority.
cya
brian
- --------------------------------------------------------
"The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to
distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:57:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Brian & Sharon Beuchaw wrote:
> Here's the list again - Tehillim is on it, as is *both* Come Out and It's
> Gonna Rain. But Phase Patterns *and* Violin Phase are *not* on it.
Do you know if the new Nonesuch single disc of "Music for 18 Musicians" is
the same recording as in the box? I would guess it is...
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:01:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: ECM
I was very amused to find that my recording of Perotin is on the ECM 'new'
series... :)
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 98 15:03:18 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re: Carol Emanuel
Maybe a bit more interesting on paper than in actuality, but not a bad
record. If I'm remembering correctly (it's home, I'm at work) there
are one or two kind of annoying pieces with a new age-rock feel (in
fact, I think one of them's the Previte piece--whose work I normally
love) but those are balanced by a number of very nice works, those by
Klucevsek and Lurie especially.
God-awful cover, by the way.
Brian Olewnick
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Carol Emanuel
Author: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> at SMTP-for-MSSM
Date: 4/8/98 2:46 PM
I was looking on the Koch Jazz page and I saw an album by Carol Emanuel,
part time harp player with Zorn (song 5 on Filmworks I for example), with
music written by Zorn, Evan Lurie, Guy Klucevsek, A. Coleman, Horvitz,
Ehrlich, Previte, Frisell, and Butch Morris. Anyone heard this? I realize
its been out for a while, but it sounds interesting at least on paper.
Thanks in advance.
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:35:45 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn
Caleb Deupree wrote:
>
> This morning on my way to work I listened to Berne's album Diminutive
> Mysteries, his tribute to Julius Hemphill, which includes David
> Sanborn as a sideman. This seems like an uncharacteristic pairing,
> and I was wondering if anyone had information on how this came to
> pass, whether they played live or toured together, etc.
David Sanborn and Marty Ehrlich are/were Hemphill's two musical
proteges. Berne also studied with Hemphill and because 'Diminutive
Mysteries' is "mostly Hemphill" the hook-up with Sanborn was perfectly
normal (sort of).
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:08:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich boxset
> Besides PENDULUM MUSIC, that Reich has never recorded, it seems that PHASE
> PATTERNS was also missing from the list recently posted.
Is Phase Patterns the one off of '4 organs'?
Also, could someone who's actually purchased the set tell me how much it
is? i'm curious...
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:17:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset
> Here's the list again - Tehillim is on it, as is *both* Come Out and It's
> Gonna Rain. But Phase Patterns *and* Violin Phase are *not* on it.
> I don't think Nonesuch ever posited that the box was a *complete*
> collection of his works from 1966-96, but it *is* a huge majority.
Sad...i really really really like Violin Phase. Are these two things the
only works from this period which aren't in the set, or are there others?
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:54:46 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: new Tzadik
Be expecting new discs by Merzbow, Anthony Coleman's Selfhaters and
another one by an electronic composer with a very non-western name
(can't remember). I was flipping through a soon-to-be-released catalog
at the store today and found these...
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:50:22 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: ECM
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:01:41 -0400 (EDT) ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
>
>
> I was very amused to find that my recording of Perotin is on the ECM 'new'
> series... :)
BTW, I seem to remember that Reich mentions Perotin as an influence for
MUSIC BY 18 MUSICIANS. That might explain why :-).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #316
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