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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, April 7 1998        Volume 02 : Number 311



In this issue:
-
       re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter
       re: cujo adventures/w.shorter
       re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter
       Re: DC 2
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #310
       Re: weird?
       king crimson
       Re: Williams EMERGENCY!
       Re: King Crimson
       Re: No More Lists
       Re: Williams EMERGENCY!
       Re:Partners in subversion
       Re: King Crimson
       Re:king crimson
       bargain bin alert
       Re: Expensive discs
       Fwd: Faith No More

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:46:48 +0100
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter

hi patrice!

the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has
reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to
understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like
wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts...

patRice


Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600  Jon Mooneyham wrote:
> >
> > & a current fave -
> > Cujo-Adventures in Foam
>
> Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds
> me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but
> the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and
> this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but...
>
>         Patrice.
>
> -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:15:38 +0000
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: cujo adventures/w.shorter

hi patrice!

the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has
reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to
understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like
wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts...

patRice


Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600  Jon Mooneyham wrote:
> >
> > & a current fave -
> > Cujo-Adventures in Foam
>
> Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds
> me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but
> the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and
> this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but...
>
>         Patrice.
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:46:48 +0100
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter

hi patrice!

the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has
reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to
understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like
wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts...

patRice


Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600  Jon Mooneyham wrote:
> >
> > & a current fave -
> > Cujo-Adventures in Foam
>
> Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds
> me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but
> the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and
> this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but...
>
>         Patrice.
>
> -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:11:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DC 2

On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Landon Thorpe wrote:

> Someone sometime ago said that DC 2 inverted the
> traditional role of the guitar/guitar/bass/drums lineup. The guitars use
> the regularity of their repeated lines to keep time while the drums take
> the "lead" role. Actually, I think both guitars and drums do a little bit
> of both.

Interesting observations.  Supposedly the original concept behind Storm &
Stress was Sonic Youth inverted in just this way.  (But, according to
another version of the story from the same source, the original concept
was a combination of German Romanticism and GQ fashion, so  .  .  .)

Chris Hamilton


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:39:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Gretz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #310

it's good to see someone mention Madonna's immaculate collection although i
myself prefer (can't remember the name goddamit) the collection of ballads.
SOmething to believe in? maybe. oh well, it's realy good and has some beautiful
songs on it.


jeff

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:10:09 -0500
From: "PETSITTER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: weird?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]>
To: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>;
[e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: weird?


>
>On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:58:14 GMT0BST  DR S WILKIE wrote:
>>
>> anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy"
>> (avant 43?)
>
>Typo? CADENCE lists this record as having Chris Cochrane, instead of
>Mike Patton.
>
>Yes, a typo.  I wrote Cadence and asked them if they had Weird Little Boy
and their answer was yes..
>
>-
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:45:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Gretz <[e-mail]>
Subject: king crimson

it depends on what you would be looking for out of king crimson which one to
start with,

prog-rock  - Larks Tounges In Aspic or Starless and Bible Black
heavy stuff - Red (really good, this one is just a trio of Robert Fripp, john
    wetton and Bill Bruford.
Adrian Belew - Discipline (i don't know how to describe this really other than
    when you listen to this, you'll know where Primus got all of their ideas)

but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of
all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's
existance


jeff

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 20:22:18 -0400
From: Alan E Kayser <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Williams EMERGENCY!

Jason Tors wrote:

> Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album?

Yes, if you call what he does "singing."  Just on a couple of the
pieces.  It does not keep this from being the ultimate garage fusion
LP.  When it first came out it blew minds, including mine.  Never had
heard anything like it, and it still sounds "far out" to me, except for
those lame vocals.  But don't forget that Dylan was in his prime, and if
he could sing, then...

John McLaughlin just rips things open, and Larry Young was doing his
best to formulate a Coltrane language for the organ.  Perhaps if these
guys had stuck together they would have received the accolades that
Miles got for"inventing" this type of music.  Just this and Turn It Over
document this trio, with Jack Bruce augmenting on the latter.  Tony
never approached this level again, IMHO.  Mahavishnu came close, and
Larry Young made one great LP, still not on CD, titled Lawrence of
Newark.  He then got caught up in some rather commercial fusion stuff,
then died way before his time.

Alan Kayser

>
>
> -






- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:19:01 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: King Crimson

>>>>> "Ash" == Ash  <[e-mail]> writes:

    Ash> I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists
    Ash> posted to the mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this:
    Ash> What would be a good introductory album by King Crimson?  Im
    Ash> a guitarist and am interested in good songs but also
    Ash> interesting playing.  Also, I like Adrian Belew, what KC
    Ash> album with him is a good one?  Thanks.

Crimson fans tend to divide their work into four categories.  In the
first, personnel changed on each of four albums, but most of it is in
fairly traditional progrock mode.  Court of the Crimson King is the
most famous album from this period, although Lizard made a few of the
top 20 lists, and has more unusual instrumentation (woodwinds and
keys) than some of the others.  Keith Tippett puts in some incredible
licks on their second album, Wake of Poseidon.

Phase 2 starts with Larks Tongues in Aspic, the album that made the
most top 20s.  Absolutely incredible album, although I personally
remember more dynamic range on the old vinyl than the new 'remastered'
edition (maybe it was just all the tape hiss that let me know how much
volume was coming).  Features Jamie Muir from the Music Improvisation
Company on percussion.  Red (also on a number of top 20) is their
final album from this period, stripped down to a trio and also very
powerful.  Fripp has a very famous 'one-note' guitar solo on Red.
Both of these albums features long, extended pieces that are not
successfully anthologized.  There is also a fine new live 2-cd set,
Night Watch, that contains original material that was tweaked in the
studio for the middle album from this group, Starless & Bible Black,
and which I would recommend as well.  Can't go wrong with any of these
(I'd save Starless for last though).

Hiatus for six years, than three albums with Belew on guitar,
Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perfect Pair.  Comparisons with
Remain in Light Talking Heads are somewhat justified, and although I
like these albums, I listen to them the least.  I'd vote for
Discipline from these three.  Band cohesion was supposedly at a low by
the time the last was recorded, and IMO it shows.  This is usually
referred to as the 1980s Crimson.

The latest incarnation is the 1980s lineup plus another drummer and
another bass/stick player.  One studio album, Thrak and a live set of
improvisations (their first of *all* improv), Thrakattak, both
worthwhile.

Their label, Discipline, is releasing live material from most of these
bands.  The first live set includes more versions of 21st Century
Schizoid Man than any one person should have, and the sound is pretty
raw.  I haven't heard the recent 1990s live set.

If you want a Belew Crimson album, I'd recommend Discipline or Thrak.
Otherwise, I'd have to recommend Larks Tongues as their pinnacle.

There's a web site and mailing list devoted to them at
www.elephant-talk.com.


- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management

Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:40:15 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: No More Lists

- -----Original Message-----
From: m. rizzi <[e-mail]>
To: Zorn Mailing List <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 4:34 PM
Subject: No More Lists


>Okay campers, time for the list owner to clapmpdown.


Thanks for waiting until the lists were over and compiled to clamp down.
I've got people asking me how TO subscribe.

Back to the discussions.

Keith


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 19:54:49 -0800
From: George Grella <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Williams EMERGENCY!

Jason Tors writes:

> Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album?

Why yes, that is Tony Williams "singing" on that album!

gg

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue,  7 Apr 1998 14:13:17 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:Partners in subversion

I think the funniest thing about the deconstructing Beck disc is also what made
the damn U2 fiasco so funny.  Beck himself uses samples from all over (not
always cleared, either!) to create his own music.  So, most of the samples used
on the Deconstructiing Beck record are probably not even HIS music.  You know?
U2 was the same way, when at the time they were touring the world with their Zoo
Tour, broadcasting TV signals to a paying audience (fairly illegal).  So.

Just thought it was funny,
and no-one had mentioned it.

Peter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:47:56 -0400
From: "Ch{is Barrett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: King Crimson

At 6:54 PM 4/6/98, Ash wrote:
>I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists posted to the
>mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this:  What would be a good
>introductory album by King Crimson?   Im a guitarist and am interested
>in good songs but also interesting playing.  Also, I like Adrian
>Belew, what KC album with him is a good one?  Thanks.

Just to add to all the Crimson posts.....

It sounds like Discipline might be the disk you're looking for...both for
Adrian's guitar work and, in many ways, the most inspired playing of the
three 80's Crimson albums.

One additional note, the double live CD B'Boom from the '94 tour offers
IMHO a good overview of Adrian and the band live covering 80's material,
intersting takes on the title tracks from the two 70s albums that made many
top 20 lists (Red and Lark's Tongue in Aspic, pt. 2) and generally more
inspired versions of tunes from Thrak (though I have to say that there is
something missing on the actual Thrak album.  The 30 minute EP Vroom
actually sounds better to me than Thrak itself).

- -Chris



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue,  7 Apr 1998 14:40:30 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:king crimson

<<it depends on what you would be looking for out of king crimson which one to
start with,

prog-rock  - Larks Tounges In Aspic or Starless and Bible Black
heavy stuff - Red (really good, this one is just a trio of Robert Fripp, john
    wetton and Bill Bruford.
Adrian Belew - Discipline (i don't know how to describe this really other than
    when you listen to this, you'll know where Primus got all of their ideas)

but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of
all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's
existance
>>

I'd have to agree with everything, except to mention that there's an earlier set
of King CRimson that's very very Romantic-Prog oriented.  Lots of flutes and
oboes and stuff like that.  There's a bazillion variations on collections for
King Crimson, as Fripp seems to be unable to make up his mind what constitutes
the essential Crimson.  The one I have has all the good early stuff like 21st
Century Schizoid Man, Ladies of the Road, Cat Food, In the Court, and some
others, plus '80s stuff, but omits all the mid period, so it fits my collection
perfect.

Also, while I think all the 72-74 stuff is excellent (LTIA, Starless, Red), I
think THRAK blows custard.  But others seem to like it, so just know that
there's dissenting opinion.  Also, Discipline is an excellent album, very '80's
sounding, but well done.  The other two '80s albums are only for purists,
although my Belew-head friends seem to like them, so you might also.  (Although
Three of a Perfect Pair is an excellent song.)


PeterR

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:52:44 -0400
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: bargain bin alert

I'm an employee so this might be considered an improper commerical posting
but what the heck.  Several of the Borders stores have recently been
getting some good bargain CDs buried amongst all the usual schlock.  At $6
each I've bought:  Tom Johnson on HatArt, Shannon Jackson's Taboo, a Roky
Erickson comp, that ROIR Richard Hell disc, Anthony Davis' X, Miles/Tadd
Dameron live, Sun Records country.  There's been even more stuff that I
didn't get to in time, like a Bill Evans import, Johnny Thunders &
Heartbreakers, Glenn Branca songs, etc.  Happy hunting.

LT
- ------------------------------------------------------
Lang Thompson
http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4
New at Funhouse:  Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan obituary.

"No one ever listens to Zathras.  Quite mad they say.
It is good that Zathras does not mind.  Has even
grown to like it."  --  Zathras

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:00:57 EDT
From: Tag Yr It <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Expensive discs

Hello all,

Now....I like this particular thread (and I totally enjoyed the top 20 lists,
sorry I never got around to putting mine together). When I read the first post
about paying a lot for discs, two things immediately came to mind for me -
Quiet Sun's "Mainstream" which I found in stock at my favorite CD shop....for
$37.98...the other one was Lloyd Cole's "Another Story," a collection of 7
alternate and B-side tracks, which if I remember right was around $30.00,
special ordered from the same shop.

Kind of related to this on the thread of luckiest finds...I bought a copy of
Negativland's "U2" CD the weekend it was released, because at the time (and
still) I was buying anything new that Negativland put out. Its a wonderful
piece of satire and comedy that more than anything reminded me of growing up
with Firesign Theatre stuff. And for those who don't know the whole story
(I've read and have tons of documentation on this) the "U2" CD was withdrawn
in a matter of days, and now goes for something like $150.00. I'm definitely
not parting with mine though!

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:23:55 EDT
From: Tag Yr It <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Faith No More

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In a message dated 98-04-06 18:04:24 EDT, [e-mail] writes:

<< [e-mail] >>

I really see what you're saying here, and agree with it. I've grown similarly
as well....however, I haven't written off Jane's Addiction at all. I still
love the power of their stuff, and to me they were the 80's version of Led
Zeppelin.

Dale.

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From: "Francisca" <[e-mail]>
To: "Zorn" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Faith No More
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:27:20 -0400
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I do not mean to insult anybody's musical preferences, but I have a hard
time figuring out what exactly so many of you find compelling, experiment=
al
and exciting about Faith No More, considering that you appreciate such a
diverse range of excellent music. And I know what I'm talking about, sinc=
e
at one point in my life I owned 3 of their albums. But I have long since
abandoned any interest in pretty pop -- along with all my rock favorites =
of
yore: Jane's Addiction, Metallica, Carcass, King's X, Voivod and
Soundgarden's Louder Than Love. Nowadays I prefer Musica Transonic (an
insane Japanese band), Caspar Brotzmann Massaker and Pussy Galore. God
knows even Xenakis is far louder and wilder than any of those tame pups.


=09=09=09=09=09=09Francisca

P.S. Thank you to all those who have made known their favorite Art Ensemb=
le
of Chicago records.


[e-mail]

- -



- --part0_891959036_boundary--

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #311
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