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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, April 7 1998        Volume 02 : Number 310



In this issue:
-
       Re: weird?
       Re: enough!!!!
       Re: Ken Nordine
       Re: enough!!!!
       Re: Don Byron
       Re: Ken Nordine
       Re: weird?
       Re: enough!!!!
       Re: top 20 lists
       Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago
       Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists    (longish)
       Bargain Bins
       Re: weird?
       Re: Math Rock/DC II
       [none]
       top 20s (better late than never...)
       Re: ECM
       Re[2]: Math Rock/ DC II
       interesting small venues?
       Re: Math Rock

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:15:13 -0700
From: "Patrick Stockton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: weird?

> anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy"
> (avant 43?)

well it is out.  at least here in Portland Oregon.  I found it in the Zorn
section... inquired about it and was told that is was an album of noise by
Mike Patton, Zorn and others.  ive considered buying it about three times
but the $29 price tag still puts me off.  waiting to find it used
somewhere. HA!!!! that's likely!!!  but then again i did find Blind Idiot
God for $7 (avant) and Marc RIbot's "Shrek" for 6.50 so there is some hope.
if anyone has actually heard this al;bum, a review would be helpful.
thanks

patrick in portland

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:13:30 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: enough!!!!

>i dont see the sence in top 20s for liveshows and disappointments since
>this wont help anyone to get into great stuff he/she never heard before...
>
>BJOERN


STOP MAKING SENSE Talking Heads at the Greek Theatre


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:34:37 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Nordine

Todd Bramy wrote:

> Now I have a question: radio show?

"Now, Nordine" was carried by my local Pacifica station in Houston for many
years... I think it might even have been an NPR program, but could be
completely off my nut about that.  It was a magical otherworld, that's for
sure.  This man has a VOICE.  I know that at least some of these radio segments
were later released on Nordine's own Snail label of cassette-only releases...
the only one I've got is "Triple Talk," which is a pretty descriptive title...
Ken 1 talks in my left ear, Ken 2 speaks to the right, and Ken 3 makes noises
or chants mantras off in the distance.

(Any bets on whether Ken would have had the same effect on our collective
nervous system had he NOT been such a prominent voice in American TV
commercials throughout the '70s and '80s?)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:13:30 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: enough!!!!

>i dont see the sence in top 20s for liveshows and disappointments since
>this wont help anyone to get into great stuff he/she never heard before...
>
>BJOERN


STOP MAKING SENSE Talking Heads at the Greek Theatre


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:50:43 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Don Byron

Alan E Kayser wrote:

> William York wrote:
>
> > Speaking of Don Byron, since he was mentioned on the last list, does
> > anyone know when he will have something new out?
>
> During a conversation with Uri Caine he mentioned that he had done some
> work on the next Don Byron recording.  Are you ready for this...covers
> of War and Mandrill tunes!!!

Due out before summer on... wait for it... BLUE NOTE!!!!!!!  This latest
project's called something like New Blaxploitation, and Biz Markie's on the
disc...  Not that *I* mind, but Alfred and Francis are bound to be spinning
right about now...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:34:37 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Nordine

Todd Bramy wrote:

> Now I have a question: radio show?

"Now, Nordine" was carried by my local Pacifica station in Houston for many
years... I think it might even have been an NPR program, but could be
completely off my nut about that.  It was a magical otherworld, that's for
sure.  This man has a VOICE.  I know that at least some of these radio segments
were later released on Nordine's own Snail label of cassette-only releases...
the only one I've got is "Triple Talk," which is a pretty descriptive title...
Ken 1 talks in my left ear, Ken 2 speaks to the right, and Ken 3 makes noises
or chants mantras off in the distance.

(Any bets on whether Ken would have had the same effect on our collective
nervous system had he NOT been such a prominent voice in American TV
commercials throughout the '70s and '80s?)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:15:13 -0700
From: "Patrick Stockton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: weird?

> anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy"
> (avant 43?)

well it is out.  at least here in Portland Oregon.  I found it in the Zorn
section... inquired about it and was told that is was an album of noise by
Mike Patton, Zorn and others.  ive considered buying it about three times
but the $29 price tag still puts me off.  waiting to find it used
somewhere. HA!!!! that's likely!!!  but then again i did find Blind Idiot
God for $7 (avant) and Marc RIbot's "Shrek" for 6.50 so there is some hope.
if anyone has actually heard this al;bum, a review would be helpful.
thanks

patrick in portland

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:13:30 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: enough!!!!

>i dont see the sence in top 20s for liveshows and disappointments since
>this wont help anyone to get into great stuff he/she never heard before...
>
>BJOERN


STOP MAKING SENSE Talking Heads at the Greek Theatre


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 03:05:22 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: top 20 lists

frenesi wrote:

> > haven't seen Michael Bolton's "Secret Passion" (or whatever it was)
> > either...
>
> not to mention...michael jackson's "thriller"...

The main difference being I'd *accept* Michael Jackson's "Thriller"
(hell, if this were a Top 2000 list I might even *name* "Thriller,"
though "Off the Wall' would inevitably do better), while the Bolton thing
is a hellish monstrosity for which Peter Gelb ought to be summarily
executed.  I'd poke a sharp stick through his eardrums myself if I
thought he had any.  I'd planned to never hear the damn thing, but one
evening spent shopping for world music in the glassed-off room at the
Tower in Huntington, NY blew that for me.  What a fucking monstrosity
(and remember I'm the poseur with the Jussi Bj=F6rling disc in the top 20
so at least I know the material Bolton's debasing...).  It was playing in
alternation with a Kenny G. disc, I kid you not.  Damn how I've suffered,
but "Vissi l'arte" ... ;-)

And of course it's number one on the "legit" classical Billbord charts.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 03:18:36 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> Les Stances/People In Sorrow

I'm on line for this one with you... the French have all the luck sometimes, but
I figure it's just because the Art Ensemble made a living there when they
couldn't here...

> Phase One/w/Fontella Bass

I've got the latter on a French Musidisc CD but the former remains elusive...

> Bap-Tizum/Fanfare.

Still on the Koch schedule, yes indeed.  There's hope after all...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:26:49 -0500
From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists    (longish)

At 02:14 AM 4/7/98 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:
>> What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories?
>
>5. I once bought a copy of The Uncanny X-Men #101 (first issue with Phoenix)
>in near mint condition at a used bookstore where they were embarassed to
>charge me 50 cents when store policy dictated that everything was priced at
>half of cover price ("it's our minimum price, we're really sorry...").  I
>got about $39 for it about an hour later (and this was in like '86).

That kills me.  I used to buy comics for their "potential value" until I
realized that you still have to find someone to buy them from you at a
higher price, not always easy to do.

My best bargain bin finds are:

Brian Eno - Another Green World (one of my all time favorite albums) for
$1.00 on vinyl in 1983 at a Wolworths of all places.

801 - Live - for $1.00 on cassette in 1984 at a head-shop in Mankato MN.

The Soft Boys - 1976-1981 Compilation (2CD) - for $8.00 at Roadrunner
records in Minneapolis before it was even released.

Gary Numan - The Fury - $11.00 at a Musicland - Not that great of a deal
unless  you realize not only how hard it was to find at the time, but also
that it was at a Musicland for crying out loud.

Half Japanese - Fire in the Sky - 99 Cents (plus a 10% discount) in
Rochester, MN.  Probably my most financially frugal score yet.

Other Purchase of note - Bible Launcher - lucky enough to come in on a
Sunday and purchase it just before the phone call came in telling them not
to even put it on the shelf.  Not really a bargain bin buy, but as there
are probably only three or four copies in the Twin Cities area, worth noting.

Most disappointing Bargain Bin story - I had just purchased a Descendents
single called Bonus Fat for the unheard of price of $12.00 (I was a bit
more foolish then) which had a total of 12 minutes of music on it.  The
song I had been looking for at the time clocked in at 12 seconds.  That's
over a buck a second.  Now that in itself is enough to make anyone
irritated, but three days later, at a now defunct store in St. Paul, I
found a descendents disc in the used bin which contained an entire album,
plus the aforementioned single for a whopping $7.00.


Now my question for you is:  What is the most you have spent on a single
disc?  I'm not talking about boxed sets, just one disc, by itself.

Me personally is the unofficial soundtrack to Blade Runner by Vangelis for
which I paid $54.00.  I look back and shake my head once in a while, but
it's still a great disc, and if I was drunk I'd probably do it again.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:35:27 -0500
From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bargain Bins

I almost forgot:

Talking Heads - The Name of This Band Is Talking Heads - $3.00 on vinyl.
Unfortunately I let my friend Chris buy it instead of snagging it for
myself.  Since that time, I have NEVER seen another copy of it for sale
anywhere at any price.  Can anyone give me one good reason why this album
has never been released on CD?  It's probably my favorite album by them.

Just thinking about it pisses me off.  Again.






- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:02:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: El Kabong <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: weird?

> > anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy"
> > (avant 43?)  >
> well it is out.  at least here in Portland Oregon.  I found it in the Zorn
> section... inquired about it and was told that is was an album of noise by
> Mike Patton, Zorn and others.  ive considered buying it about three times
> but the $29 price tag still puts me off.

nobody in america should buy this just yet.  while it has been imported
already, koch is going to officially release it in america on april 21,
and it will then cost the standard price for an avant disc- $18-20

- -a.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  6 Apr 1998 18:18:34 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Math Rock/DC II

Replying to my own message:

It looks like there's some discrepency about what "math rock" is.
I see it as tight, wacky-meter ROCK music.  I dunno.
Slint, though I like them a LOT, is definitely NOT math rock.
There's nothing mathy in their appoach at all.
In my book (and my friends) they have the honor of having developed their own
sound, Slint Rock or Slintastic Music.  A whole subset of rock bands have
spawned from the sound of Spiderland, including most everything on the Grass
label.
Anyway, I write again because I overlooked some other very important releases:

Dazzling Killmen: Face of Collapse
Tight tight tight playing from this St. Louis group (note the Blind Idiot God
overtones) with shifting meter changes.  Music to break stuff by.

Bitch Magnet - Ben Hur:
Again, a more accessible math rock, also from that Squirrel Bait scene, I think.
 Anyway, the earlier stuff is alright, but this final release is the math, baby.
 Nice rock songs enveloped in tight meter shifts, plus a few instrumentals.

And, duh:
Ruins
Funny, I didn't like Hydro blahblahblah as much as I liked Burning Stone and
Stonehenge.  But the best, for the math fan, is the 10 song 7" on Bloody
Butterfly.  Ten songs in, like, fifteen minutes, plus a full score.  Kids can
sing along!  Also, Early Works kicks major bootie AND features John Zorn on one
of the best tracks ever (Dry Lungs).
Go Get 'em.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:10:57 +0200
From: "D. Gschwend Gschwend D. Atelier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:10:34 +0000
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: top 20s (better late than never...)

hi y'all...

yet someone else who's wanted to post a list since last week. but hasn't
had the time yet... (also haven't had the time to flip
through my collection, so it's just off the top of my head.)

in alphabetical order:

arnold schoenberg - transfigured night (performed by ensemble
intercontemporain)
bjork - debut
frank zappa - apostrophe/overnite sensation
jeff mills (dj) - live at the liquid room, tokyo
jeff mills (dj) - the purpose maker compilation
john zorn - big gundown / forbidden fruit
john zorn - circle maker/isaachar (sp?) (to be able to listen to marc
ribot)
john zorn - naked city
joy division - (last album w/the live tracks)
madonna - the immaculate collection
material - seven souls
naked city - radio
naked city - torture garden
pierre boulez conducts all the works by anton webern
residents - commercial album
something by bela bartok
terry bozzio - the drum solo music off his paiste drum solo videos
the cure - pornography
the fall - the frenz experiment
the smiths - louder than bombs

"expiry date": 35 hours from now.

patRice

listening 2 right now: circle maker



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:15:34 -0400
From: "Sean Terwilliger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ECM

Well, Aside from the fact that Krakatau has a sax player, and is some of
the finest 'free-jazz' I know and Frisell could lead anyone to Zorn or any
number of avant-free artists, and Metheny could lead one to Ornette... Well
you may be right about Torn and Tibbetts.

- -Sean
- ----------
> From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
> To: Sean Terwilliger <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: ECM
> Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 12:13 PM
>
>
> More guitar stuff. I think rough & ready was what is desired. If any of
> the below can mix the intelligence, grit and ideas of folks like Archie
> Shep, Frank Wright, Glen Spearmann, Charles Gayle etc. etc. I'd like to
> know about it.
>
> Of course maybe we're comparing apples and oranges (or is it fuzzboxes
and
> saxophone keys), but IMHO I don't think any of the below are going to
> lead anyone to the Art Esemble or other "outside" music.
>
> Ken Waxman
> [e-mail]
>
> If there were fewer guitars and more saxophones around, the world would
> be a better place
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Sean Terwilliger wrote:
>
> > > >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the
Art
> > > >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for
sleeping
> > > >pills.
> >
> > What about...
> > Steve Tibbetts
> > David Torn
> > Krakatau
> > Bill Frisell
> > Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81)
> >
> > -Sean
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> >

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  6 Apr 1998 18:24:13 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: Math Rock/ DC II

<<
What's so special about that? Bands like Dream Theater routinely write songs
that feature every meter from 5/4, 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 13/8, 15/16, etc. in
one and the same song. Listen to "Metropolis Pt. I" from Images and Words,
for example. Yet this is not called math-rock, its called over-pretentious
progressive crap. There isn't a single symphonic rock band that sticks to 4/4,
so I get a bit tired every time someone says "wow, this song is in 5/4, check
it out".

What about Zappa using completely fucked up meters like 23/16. As a matter
of fact, even Genesis uses something this far out during the solo of "Robbery,
Assault, and Battery".
>>

Yeah, you're right.  I mean, that's not all there is to it, natch.
Rush does it all over, and I'm not really a big fan of theirs.
Lots of composers have done this too, but Stravinsky made it ROCK.
So, that's not all there is to it.  I guess what I'm saying is, on top of the
excellent rock music going on, they throw in nifty meter changes.  Plus, hey, a
lot of times, I just like the groove of a 7/8 or 5/8 (Can, KC, Soft Machine).
Nothin' grooves finer.


One more add:
Zeni Geva.  My favorite is Freedom Bondage, cuz on top of the crushing weight of
the typical ZG stuff, it has synths.  :)

Peter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:49:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "f.e. somerset" <[e-mail]>
Subject: interesting small venues?

Hi, new to the list, excuse the slightly irrelevant first posting:

Someone who books gigs for God is My Copilot (not sure if they've featured
on anyone's top 20?) wants suggestions for small innovative venues in
Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa, and Toronto.  Where are good places to hear
interesting gigs?  Newly arrived in Canada, I've also got a vested
interest in finding this out...

Fiona


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:26:56 +0100
From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Math Rock

During the last couple of years I've been listening a lot to bands in
the metal genre, who frequently use odd meters and complex rhythmic
structures. Let's see if I can name a few, without the ability to
walk to my cd-collection (because I'm at the University right now).

Meshuggah-Destroy, Erase, Improve; A Swedish metalband with a drummer
who eats polyrhythms for breakfast, and a guitarplayer (Fredrik
Thordendal) who is obviously influenced by Allan Holdsworth. Imagine
the sound of Pantera with jazzy guitarsolo's and rather unplayable
breaks and meters. Oh yeah, besides these technical matters, they're
one of the most agressive bands I've ever heard.

Fredrik Thordendal-Sol Niger Within; Solo-album of the main composer
and guitarist of Meshuggah. The album contains one song, which is
divided in (I believe) 39 parts. The total CD-time is apppr. 49m. On
this album he makes an almost perfect synthesis of extreme metal and
jazz/symphonic rock.A part of the rhythmsection consist of Mats and Morgan,
who also play on Zappa's Universe. Two incredible musicians! One
part of the composition features a saxophone-player, who obviously is
influenced by John Zorn.

Cynic-Focus; The band who delivered their drummer ans guitarplayer to
(IMHO) the best metal album ever made; Human by Death. Cynic does also
'focus' on a combination of metal and jazz. They're not as agressive
as Meshuggah, but their songs are beautiful: based in the 70's
jazzrock tradition. The music is rather easy to listen to, partly  because of
the very strong (in a musical sense) dynamics. Very good musicians.

Confessor-forgot the title, but they only have one album out; I think
the most technical band I've ever heard. The drummer is the most
featured bandmember, and he's really incredible. I think Meshuggah's
drummer has listend a lot to him.

Watchtower-forgot the title, but I mean their second album; the band
who made the term "Techno-Metal" the only appoppriate way to describe
their music. Sometimes it's a bit over the top, but they are an
example of all the mentioned bands in this email.

Some other bands: Nocturnus, Sadist (I haven't heard these yet, but
they must be a more melodic version of Meshuggah), Sadus.


Jeroen de Boer

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #310
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