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1998-04-06
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #312
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, April 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 312
In this issue:
-
Re: reich/trane
Re: Math Rock/DC II
Re: cujo adventures/w.shorter
Re: Partners in subversion
Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20)
Williams EMERGENCY!
Re: reich/trane
Om Kalthoum (Kalsoum)
Re: FAITH NO MORE
Re: FAITH NO MORE
Re: Crimson
Williams EMERGENCY!
Re: Bargain Bin
Re: king crimson
Re: Bargain Bin
Re: interesting small venues?
Re: king crimson
Re: Crimson
Re: king crimson (and similarities engine)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:02:11 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: reich/trane
On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:42:57 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> > Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create
> > unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the
> > version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch).
>
> What's this 10xCD box? All Reich? What's on it?
It is basically a retrospective of Reich's music. All new interpretations of
most of his compositions (few missing, such as PENDULUM MUSIC).
It was supposed to be released in 1996 to celebrate his 60th birthday. But
the box only came out in 1997.
> btw, no one answered my Coltrane question... Is the material from the
> 2-LP 'Concert In Japan' on the 4-CD 'Live In Japan'(Impulse)?
A safe bet would be to say: yes.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:29:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Math Rock/DC II
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote:
> It looks like there's some discrepency about what "math rock" is.
> I see it as tight, wacky-meter ROCK music. I dunno.
> Slint, though I like them a LOT, is definitely NOT math rock.
> There's nothing mathy in their appoach at all.
well, assuming that "wacky" means non-4/4 time signature, haven't you
contradicted your own definition?
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:19:43 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: cujo adventures/w.shorter
On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:15:38 +0000 patRice wrote:
>
> hi patrice!
>
> the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has
> reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to
> understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like
> wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts...
Using other's music as sampling material is fine with me, as long you (the
DJ/sampler) are adding something on top of it. These tracks reminded me
as being out of a Laswell project without being touched. You don't need
a sampler to do that; you just play the orginal.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:24:42 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Partners in subversion
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:13:17 UT peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote:
>
> I think the funniest thing about the deconstructing Beck disc is also what made
> the damn U2 fiasco so funny. Beck himself uses samples from all over (not
> always cleared, either!) to create his own music. So, most of the samples used
> on the Deconstructiing Beck record are probably not even HIS music. You know?
> U2 was the same way, when at the time they were touring the world with their Zoo
> Tour, broadcasting TV signals to a paying audience (fairly illegal). So.
A little bit like Dylan threatening to sue Apple because they called one of their
product Dylan :-).
Or Scanner to sue Bjork...
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:18:55 -0700
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20)
>At 01:26 PM 4/6/98 +1000, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>>
>>On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote:
>>
>>> Caveman Shoestore - "Flux"
>>> Caveman Hughscore - self-titled (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh
>>> Hopper)
>>> Hughscore - "High Spot Paradox"
>>
>>This doesn't mean a damn thing to me: please tell me more...
>>
> The only thing I know about these releases is that they involve Wayne
>Horvitz bass veteran Fred Chalenor (Zony Mash, Pigpen, etc.).
>
Was waiting for someone else to chime in on this thread, but here goes...
Caveman Shoestore was Fred Chalenor(bass), Henry Franzoni(drums) and Elaine
DiFalco(vocals, keys). Fred and Henry were in numerous Northwest
experimental/improv rock bands including Face Ditch, Boodlers, and the best
live, though never recorded, version of the Tone Dogs. They released 2
albums as Caveman (Master Cylinder and Flux), and a third as Caveman
Hughscore, which added ex-Soft Machine bassist and composer Hugh Hopper.
Caveman Split up a couple of years ago, but Fred, Elaine and Hugh Hopper
continued collaborating, and recently released a CD as just "Hughscore".
Fred also plays with Zony Mash, Freestyle Candela and many other Seattle
bands, and is one of the best electric bassists on the planet, in my
opinion. Henry currently plays in Minus, with a CD on New & Improv Music.
________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/
"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
-Sun Ra
________________________________________________________
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600
From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com>
Subject: Williams EMERGENCY!
Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:04:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@nathan.enteract.com>
Subject: Re: reich/trane
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:42:57 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote:
> >
> > > Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create
> > > unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the
> > > version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch).
> >
> > What's this 10xCD box? All Reich? What's on it?
>
> It is basically a retrospective of Reich's music. All new interpretations of
> most of his compositions (few missing, such as PENDULUM MUSIC). ...
Actually, only *some* of the pieces are new interpretations - I can't
remember which ones right now and the box is at home. Here's a list of
what's in the box:
Three Movements
Electric Counterpoint
Different Trains
The Cave: Excerpt(s)
Proverb
Nagoya Marimbas
City Life
Come Out
Piano Phase
It's Gonna Rain
Four Organs
Drumming
Music for Mallet Instruments, Voices and Electric Organ
Clapping Music
Six Marimbas
Music for 18 Musicians
Eight Lines
Tehillim
Desert Music
New York Counterpoint
Sextet
The Four Sections
Hope this helps....
cya
brian
- --------------------------------------------------------
"The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to
distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:12:27 -0400
From: WALTER_MACKEIGAN@HP-Canada-om1.om.hp.com
Subject: Om Kalthoum (Kalsoum)
from an earlier posting:
>From: John McMahon <jmcmahon@wwdc.com>
>Subject: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish)
>Hi!
>What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories?
>Okay, I'm done. Hey, what are you listening to RIGHT NOW?
>Cheers,
>John McMahon,
>no longer lurking.
>Now Playing (CDs):
>Om Kalsoum: "Hajartek" (when I started writing this)
First some bargain bin pickups:
Weather Report: Heavy Weather
A Woolco bargain bin. 99cents. circa 1979
Synergy: Audion (Larry Fast stuff)
Sam the Record Man in Thunderbay, Ontario. $1.49.circa 1983
Some original Gramophone Company of India (Odeon) lps from the mid
60's to the early seventies including Zakair Hussain, Bismahli Khan,
and Ravi Shankar. Got these back in 1986 at my fav Indian grocery
store for $1.99 each. All new in their krinkly plastic wrap and
'psycho-delic' covers.
Now a question about John' McMahon's great taste in music. I see that
you like to play Om Kalsoum (Omme Kalthoum). I 'discovered' her music
in a local (Ottawa, Canada) taxi. The driver played her "Etna
Omrey(You are my Life)" tape. I now have that tape and a CD called
"Diva" which is a compilation of her 78's from the 20's , 30's and
40's. Marvelous!
What other stuff is out on CD that features this powerful Egyptian
Chanteuse. What am I missing besides Harjatek?
sorry for the non-Zorn content. but ya's gotta hear this woman, ya jus
gotta!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:18:30 -0300
From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar>
Subject: Re: FAITH NO MORE
I think many chose FNM in their lists because it's similar to Zorn
in a way. Both keep trying new things every time and have a strong sense of
humour. When Zorn goes from playing "The Sicilian Clan" to "Ujaku" in Naked
City, FNM do the same in Angel Dust with "Jizzlober and "Midnight Cowboy"
or "Caralho Voador" and "Ugly in the Morning" in KFAD. When you ask what's
so experimental about FNM just listen to some of their tracks. Are they a
"heavy rock" band? (Caffeine, Surprise!You're Dead!, Malpractice) A "pop
group"? (She Loves Me Not, Take this Bottle, Just a Man) Do they do "dance
music"? (Last Cup of Sorrow Bonehead Mix, A Small Victory r-evolution 23
full moon mix, Ashes to Ashes Dillinja Mix) Are they into "trip hop"?
(Stripsearch, Pristina Billy Gould Mix) Jazz? (Star AD) Rap? (Epic) And the
musical styles go on and on...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:34:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: FAITH NO MORE
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Lucio wrote:
> When you ask what's so experimental about FNM just listen to some of
> their tracks. Are they a "heavy rock" band? (Caffeine, Surprise!You're
> Dead!, Malpractice) A "pop group"? (She Loves Me Not, Take this Bottle,
> Just a Man) Do they do "dance music"? (Last Cup of Sorrow Bonehead Mix,
> A Small Victory r-evolution 23 full moon mix, Ashes to Ashes Dillinja
> Mix) Are they into "trip hop"? (Stripsearch, Pristina Billy Gould Mix)
> Jazz? (Star AD) Rap? (Epic) And the musical styles go on and on...
that makes them eclectic, which isn't necessarily the same thing as
experimental.
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:25:14 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Crimson
I'm intrigued that Caleb Dupree, in an otherwise comprehensive
Crimson rundown, omits entirely any mention of Earthbound
(which must be mark 1), which is a kick butt, live and
groovy, funked up piece of jazzy R'n'B improv mayhem. (Some people
think it's garbage but they're wrong). Then, he omits completely the
BEST album by Crimson mark II, the Kick butt, live and groovy, (etc.
but different) USA. This is where Larks' Tongues comes alive!
And you need to hear this band play Schizoid Man, don't you?
B'Boom is all right, but it doesn't even come close to licking the
decals off the above two.
Groon!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600
From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com>
Subject: Williams EMERGENCY!
Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:38:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Bargain Bin
from an earlier posting:
>
> >What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories?
When I was in college, in the late '70s, our local record store, Cheap
Thrills in New Brinswick, NJ, was the main dumping group for Jem Records'
import overstock. So I got just about the complete works up to that time
of King Crimson, Eno, and oodles and oodles of related stuff for no more
than $2.99 apiece. Nyaa nyaa :-)
Two others:
- - One disk of Miles Davis's "Pangaea" in Japanese vinyl import in the mid
80s for 99 cents.
- - Ornette Coleman's "Skies of America" at K-Mart in Toms River, NJ, for 25
cents.
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:43:27 +0200 (MESZ)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: Re: king crimson
> but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of
> all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's
> existance
NO!!! i cant agree on that...
if you ask me what to start with:
best record: larks` tongues in aspic OR red
best adrian belew: vroooom ep
if you only want one of their records try to get "the young person`s
guide to king crimson" (as 2vinyl or 2cd <japan only and very expensive>)
BJOERN
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:46:15 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: Bargain Bin
I found a Tim Berne Caos Totale and a Michael Formanek disc, both on CD,
for $4.99 at some store in Cambridge, MA. They also had two copies of a
Henry Cow LP of which I got one for no more than a couple of bucks.
I don't know why anyone cares about my scores though...
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:51:52 -0500
From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>
Subject: Re: interesting small venues?
>Hi, new to the list, excuse the slightly irrelevant first posting:
>
>Someone who books gigs for God is My Copilot (not sure if they've featured
>on anyone's top 20?) wants suggestions for small innovative venues in
>Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa, and Toronto. Where are good places to hear
>interesting gigs? Newly arrived in Canada, I've also got a vested
>interest in finding this out...
>
>Fiona
>
>
>-
Barristers in Memphis has been known to present some good shows over the
past few years, now that the Antenna Club is no more. Masada played there,
Zony Mash played there... Sheep on Drugs... the Jesus Lizard, recently
(very disappointing show, by the way. The opening band, The Diarrhea of
Anne Frank, was more interesting.) A guy named Chris Walker has been
putting on some great shows in Memphisto, and for a while Barristers was
his venue. Chris is also doing shows at the Young Avenue Deli now, if I'm
not mistaken. (He booked the recent Polvo and Eugene Chadbourne shows
there, I think.) Anyway, in Memphis it seems the venue is secondary to the
promoter: good promoter (like Chris), good show, no matter where it winds
up being.
The Antenna Club is now a lesbian bar, and the Oblivians have played there
live since it stopped being the Antenna, and now that I think about it,
that might be a fun venue for GodCo to play.
Here in Oxford, Proud Larry's used to do great shows (Medeski, Martin &
Wood; Dick Dale; Ween), and still could, if only there were someone who
knew anything about music booking for them. The music-minded of the two
owners moved back to Atlanta last year to look after his mother after his
father was killed in a plane crash. So while there's still great food
there, the live music leaves a lot to be desired.
Rusty Crump
Oxford, Mississippi
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:50:48 -0600 (CST)
From: y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU
Subject: Re: king crimson
I started with the Compact King Crimson, which had Red, 21st Century
Schizoid Man, and a bunch from the 80s band. As it turned out, I liked
the 70s Red-period best, but I agree that a retrospective is probably the
best idea for this band, whose music is so varied.
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, BJOERN wrote:
> > but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of
> > all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's
> > existance
> NO!!! i cant agree on that...
>
> if you ask me what to start with:
>
> best record: larks` tongues in aspic OR red
> best adrian belew: vroooom ep
>
> if you only want one of their records try to get "the young person`s
> guide to king crimson" (as 2vinyl or 2cd <japan only and very expensive>)
>
> BJOERN
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:53:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Crimson
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote:
> I'm intrigued that Caleb Dupree, in an otherwise comprehensive
> Crimson rundown, omits entirely any mention of Earthbound
> (which must be mark 1), which is a kick butt, live and
> groovy, funked up piece of jazzy R'n'B improv mayhem. (Some people
> think it's garbage but they're wrong). Then, he omits completely the
> BEST album by Crimson mark II, the Kick butt, live and groovy, (etc.
> but different) USA. This is where Larks' Tongues comes alive!
I'm intrigued that you chose these too. "Earthbound" is a muddy mess, and
"USA" is far from Mark 2 at their best. Rather than USA, check out the
recent double-disc "The Night Watch", which kicks it to hellandback.
(I don't think I'd call the Earthbound band either mark 1 or mark 2; it
was the document of a short-lived aberration that (other than Fripp) had
little connection with its predecessor or follower. The players sound like
they're straining to get out from under the prog material, though they do
succeed in wrestling some of it to the ground.) -
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:56:04 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: king crimson (and similarities engine)
Has anyone mentioned "Lizard?" A few years ago when there was this web
site called the "Similarities Engine" (which was amazing by the way) I put
in my five albums and King Crimson Lizard was on there. I went out an
bought it blindly and I really enjoy it.
For those of you who don't know what the similarities engine is I'll
explain briefly. It was a web site where you would put in your top five
favorite albums and a few days later it would email you a list of rated
recommendations. The recs were rated with a number that was meant to say
how much you would like it. I was really amazed; some of the recs were
albums I already had and liked and others were ones that I didn't have and
I went out and got them and I liked them. Anyhow, that didn't last long
and it became a thing where you would pick one album and it would give you
a recommendation list but that was pretty lame. I looked at the guys
webpage the other day and he said he sold the technology to a company
called Firefly (don't quote me on this one) and they apparently haven't
done anything useful with it yet. I really hope they do though, the
similarites engine was absolutely mind-blowing.
Dan
At 11:43 AM -0500 4/7/98, BJOERN wrote:
>> but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a
>>culmination of
>> all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's
>> existance
>NO!!! i cant agree on that...
>
>if you ask me what to start with:
>
>best record: larks` tongues in aspic OR red
>best adrian belew: vroooom ep
>
>if you only want one of their records try to get "the young person`s
>guide to king crimson" (as 2vinyl or 2cd <japan only and very expensive>)
>
>BJOERN
>
>-
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #312
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