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1998-04-06
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #309
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, April 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 309
In this issue:
-
Re: 6 disappointments 6
Re: No More Lists
Re: Williams EMERGENCY!
Re: DC 2
King Crimson
reich/trane
Re: Winter & Winter
ECM/Frisell
Re: King Crimson
Re: Steve Reich
Re: Oh, oh...another late top 20 entry
Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish)
math rock
more ECM
Re: Top 20.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:12:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Peter Cline <pmc7288@is.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, BJOERN wrote:
> well since this is in my top 20 i want to say that this is a perfect
> album...maybe it is no typical FNM album but it is their only album that
> also jazz/avantgarde non-rock listeners like...believe me\
>
>
> BJOERN
I have to diagree. Of all FNM albums, King for a day is my least
favorite. Angel Dust is one of the greatest albums I've ever heard. The
Real Thing is a good enjoyable listen, and Album of the Year has some good
moments, but I find King for a Day to be largely uninteresting. But hey,
you are entitled to your opinion. Angel Dust is so much more adventorous,
if any FNM will appeal to jazz/avantgarde listeners, I'd suspect that this
is the one.
Peter
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:40:15 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: No More Lists
- -----Original Message-----
From: m. rizzi <rizzi@netcom.com>
To: Zorn Mailing List <zorn-list@xmission.com>
Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 4:34 PM
Subject: No More Lists
>Okay campers, time for the list owner to clapmpdown.
Thanks for waiting until the lists were over and compiled to clamp down.
I've got people asking me how TO subscribe.
Back to the discussions.
Keith
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 19:54:49 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Williams EMERGENCY!
Jason Tors writes:
> Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album?
Why yes, that is Tony Williams "singing" on that album!
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:11:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: DC 2
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Landon Thorpe wrote:
> Someone sometime ago said that DC 2 inverted the
> traditional role of the guitar/guitar/bass/drums lineup. The guitars use
> the regularity of their repeated lines to keep time while the drums take
> the "lead" role. Actually, I think both guitars and drums do a little bit
> of both.
Interesting observations. Supposedly the original concept behind Storm &
Stress was Sonic Youth inverted in just this way. (But, according to
another version of the story from the same source, the original concept
was a combination of German Romanticism and GQ fashion, so . . .)
Chris Hamilton
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:54:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ash <ash157@yahoo.com>
Subject: King Crimson
I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists posted to the
mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this: What would be a good
introductory album by King Crimson? Im a guitarist and am interested
in good songs but also interesting playing. Also, I like Adrian
Belew, what KC album with him is a good one? Thanks.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:42:57 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: reich/trane
> Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create
> unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the
> version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch).
What's this 10xCD box? All Reich? What's on it?
btw, no one answered my Coltrane question... Is the material from the
2-LP 'Concert In Japan' on the 4-CD 'Live In Japan'(Impulse)?
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:21:41 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter
Dan Hewins wrote:
> Does anyone know who carries Winter & Winter discs? (online or mail order)
> I have been trying to find the Big Satan disc and I am interested to see
> what else they have...
Allegro, starting in May, here in the states. But I was under the impression
that the label's been widely available in Canada for some time now...
Steve
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:26:05 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: ECM/Frisell
Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> And you forgot:
>
> MUSIC IMPROVISATION COMPANY
> DUO DEREK BAILEY DAVE HOLLAND
>
> You had to have some guts to put out such records in the early '70s.
>
> Patrice.
And also:
AMM III - It Had Been an Ordianry Enough Day in Pueblo, CO
Evan Parker Electro-Acoustic Ensemble - Between The Margins
I really love that Bailey duo with Holland! I just picked up the Music
Improvisation Company LP the other day but my turntable just busted so I
haven't had a chance to listen to it yet ):
About the Frisell thing, I personally love the guy but not all of his
CD's. I thought 'Is That You?' was pretty dismal and the latest
installment of 'Nashville' and 'Gone, Just Like A Train' are nice but I
miss his edge. 'Have A Little Faith' and 'This Land' I thought were
solid efforts but not notably strong HOWEVER, 'Where In The World?' is
absolutely awesome! It's Frisell with Hank Roberts, Kermit Driscoll and
Joey Baron. It's certainly my own favorite of Frisell's and if "Spell"
doesn't get you, I don't know what will.
I will admit, it took some growing on me before I totally loved it. It
may have been on my top 20 list.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:53:16 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: King Crimson
Ash wrote:
> I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists posted to the
> mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this: What would be a good
> introductory album by King Crimson? Im a guitarist and am interested
> in good songs but also interesting playing.
Well obviously I'm going to say "Larks' Tongues in Aspic," since it's my
personal Rosetta Stone. But there's fine playing on all Crimson discs -
it just depends what else you want on there. If your taste goes to
synth-prog of the Yes/ELP/Genesis axis, start with "In the Court of the
Crimson King." If you're into more improv oriented stuff, sometimes like
Mahavishnu Orchestra with a singer added, head for "Larks' Tongues" and
discover why my attempt at a quick, pat description is doomed to be
inadequate. If "Remain in Light"-era Talking Heads is your cup of tea and
you don't mind guitars that almost never sound like guitars, skip directly
to "Discipline." That third recommendation answers the part of your
question that pertained to Belew, as well.
> Also, I like Adrian
> Belew, what KC album with him is a good one?
"Discipline" is the place to start. And it's the best in most people's
opinions. I prefer "Beat," its followup. And "Three of a Perfect Pair,"
while far from a great record, is a collection of great parts. There's
some superior Belew noise guitar on side two to couterbalance the superior
Belew pop songsmanship on side one. The recent "Thrak" isn't bad but
suffers from wanting to be "Discipline" and "Red" at the same time. The
next studio record by the full Crimson lineup ought to be an improvement.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 08:38:11 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:58:50 -0500 Jack Schonewolf wrote:
>
> Dear Listservers,
> First off, I want to thank everyone for the great discussion lately on the
> listserve, as it helped me through a real bad week. Anyway, one name that I
> saw come up on a few lists, I believe, was Steve Reich, who I am not
> familiar with. What is his music like? Good albums to start with? What are
> people's thoughts on his work? I would be very appreciative of whatever you
> could tell me.
Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create
unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the
version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch).
If you want to have an idea of what Steve Reich is, there is not better
buy. Hard to imagine a more luscious and serene piece of music. Just when
many people were ready to believe (in the '70s) that there was only two
alternatives to contemporary music: Cage or Stockhausen (and their respec-
tive epigones), here comes a bunch of composers with a totally different
approach to music (Reich, Glass). 20 years after, this piece is already a
classic in a genre that has very few (I mean, after WW2).
I was really surprised how similar this new interpretation is (as compared
to the ECM one). I am even wondering if, duration aside, I could detect a
difference. This will be a good argument for those who judge Reich's music
too mechanical :-).
BTW, am I the only one to be surprised at the fact that there is no book
on Reich (I am excluding, of course, his collection of essays)? I was
expecting that with his 60th anniversary, somebody would come up with
a book. That might be Reich's lot: people listen to his music instead of
writing about :-). A way to acknowledge that the music speaks for itself
(instead of the opposite).
> By the way, I highly recommend both of the Anthony Coleman Tzadik Radical
> Jewish Culture Series records, Sephardic Tinge and Selfhaters. They are the
SEPHARDIC TINGE is a wonderfull jazz trio. It is, to my knowledge, the only
record on which Coleman really plays piano: no gimmick, no play around, just
piano, bass, drums and great music. Can't stop avoiding to compare it with
another great recent trio: WHO'S BRIDGE by Misha Mengelberg.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 08:11:53 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Oh, oh...another late top 20 entry
On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 19:57:21 PDT "Silent Watcher" wrote:
>
> Sorry for the late submission, but I responded privately to the initial
> request for a Desert Island discs top 20, and was too busy to struggle
> to come up with another top 20 (it changes somewhat from day to day!)
>
> 1) Masada - Alef
> 2) Isaac Hayes - Greatest Hits Volume I
> 3) Alice Coltrane - Journey In Satchidananda
> 4) John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
> 5) Sonny Sharrock - Ask the Ages
> 6) Bob Marley - Legend
> 7) Frank Zappa - Freak Out
> 8) Material - Seven Souls (remastered)
> 9) Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring (conducted by Stravinsky)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You mean, the one with the wrong tempo :-).
Patrice (who only likes Stravinski interpreted by
anybody but him (think about THE WEDDING
sung in English... beurk...)).
> 10) Mad Professor - The Lost Scrolls of Moses
> 11) The Golden Palominos - This Is How It Feels
> 12) Bootsy Collins - Back In the Day : Best of
> 13) Laswell/Tetsu Inoue - Cymatic Scan
> 14) Lull - Cold Summer
> 15) Naked City - Radio
> 16) Stevie Wonder - Original Musiquarium
> 17) Slotek - 7
> 18) Beatles - The Beatles
> 19) Beatles - Revolver
> 20) Lee Perry - Upsetter In Dub
>
> Ask me again tomorrow, and it'll change.
>
> Live Shows :
> Bootsy Collins - The Axis in Boston September 1994
> P-Funk - Garden State Arts Center August 1996
> Painkiller - The Middle East, Cambridge, Mass. May 1995
> Masada - September 1997 (I expect the next round of shows at the end of
> the month to live up to this one!)
> Alice Cooper - Meadowlands 1990-ish (Never liked him, it was part of a
> package tour in my "metal" youth...he put on an amazing stage show-it's
> a shame most of his material is terrible)
> Nuclear Assault/Savatage/Testament - 1989 (first show I ever saw - it
> HAD to make the list, regardless of what I think of that music now!)
> Tribe After Tribe - The Axis, 1993
> Buckethead/Invisible Skratch Picklz - Wetlands, 1996
> Zorn/Patton/Mori - Knitting Factory, August 1996 (kind of an off show
> compared to what I hear about them now, but the first time I ever saw
> Ikue Mori play....she's got skills!)
> The Golden Palominos - TT the Bears, Cambridge, Mass....oh, wait, the
> cancelled that tour a few days before the show...grrrrrr...
> Praxis - The Anchorage in Brooklyn, June 1997 (I imagine they could do
> better, but, come on, it was Laswell, Buckethead and Worrell on stage
> together, it had it's moments)
>
> Ok, then, I guess that's it. Sorry again for the lateness of this one.
>
> SW
> For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography at
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> -
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:14:57 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish)
John McMahon wrote:
> What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories?
1. My first copy of Cecil Taylor's "Silent Tongues" was found in the "free
to good home" box next to the exit at my favorite indie store in Houston,
where they had the charming habit of writing on the cover of occupants of
said bin in black magic marker. For years I owned a copy of "Silent
Tongues" featuring a photo of Cecil Taylor with a word balloon drawn in
which said, "Got my mojo workin'."
2. My first copy of Archie Shepp's "Mama Too Tight" was a cassette on
Jasmine, purchased for 25 cents.
3. My first copy of the Art Ensemble of Chicago's "Phase Two" was a cassette
on America, purchased for $2.99.
4. I got a used copy of "Topography of the Lungs" by Derek Bailey, Evan
Parker and Han Bennink for $4.99, which I consider to have been a screaming
deal.
5. I once bought a copy of The Uncanny X-Men #101 (first issue with Phoenix)
in near mint condition at a used bookstore where they were embarassed to
charge me 50 cents when store policy dictated that everything was priced at
half of cover price ("it's our minimum price, we're really sorry..."). I
got about $39 for it about an hour later (and this was in like '86).
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
P.S. If you didn't like my number five, here's a replacement: I got my
first copy of Bill Frisell's "Rambler" for 99 cents in an ECM cassette
closeout.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:11:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: math rock
math rock is kind of a dubious phrase like free jazz. it doesn't really
mean a whole lot, yet it's applied to bands coming out of the *punk*
tradition who begin to play in non-standard time signatures and often
(though not always) eschew vocals
arguably the first real math rock would be (ex-honor role guitarist) pen
rolling's band, butterglove. they pre-dated breadwinner by about a year
or two and have one posthumous cd available on speed kills. that
combined with breadwinner's _burner_ cd on merge make up a visceral
representation of the early confessor and c.o.c.-influenced sound of
richmond virginia. lots of great richmond bands followed in the wake
like ladyfinger (featuring pen on drums!), sliang laos and mao st. helen.
the two rollings bands were contemporaries (late 80's/early 90's) with
louisville's slint, who created a more quiet, intellectual kind of math.
reference _spiderland_ on touch & go for the archetype.
some recent bands of note:
bastro and bitch magnet provided further mapping of the math gene. bitch
magnet expertly combined melody with sheer weight and crunch. bastro
were more abstract and provided the proving ground for
later-to-be-members-of tortoise and gastr del sol.
of course don caballero, from pittsburgh are one of the most powerful
rock bands i've ever seen.
seeing rodan live was one of the single best musical experiences of my 25
years. splinter groups like june of 44 and shipping news are less good,
but still worth checking out.
polvo took the sonic youth mass of noise and made it staccato.
my most recent favorite from the math pile, though, would have to be the
champs, who are from san franciso. thoroughly satisfying in that
crunchy, metallic don cab kind of way. they eschew vocals like don cab,
but they don't eschew the irony. they didn't grow up with metal, but
they're loving it now.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:53:05 -0400
From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com>
Subject: more ECM
Don't forget back in the day they put out albums from Music Improvisation
Company, Circle, Jon Hassell and Codona. And recent good ones include:
Joe Manieri/Matt Manieri/Joe Morris "Three Men Walking"
Bley/Peacock/Oxley/Surman "In the Evenings Out There"
Jimmy Giuffre 3 "1961"
Charles Lloyd "Canto"
Gyorgy Kurtag "Jatekok"
and apparently the European division put out an Evan Parker with
electronics album.
Best LT
- ------------------------------------------------------
Lang Thompson
http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4
New at Funhouse: Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan obituary.
"No one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad they say.
It is good that Zathras does not mind. Has even
grown to like it." -- Zathras
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:50:12 +1000
From: Peter Hollo <raven@cia.com.au>
Subject: Re: Top 20.
OK OK so I cave in. I have about 500 CDs and in *very* varying genres so
this is **extremely** difficult to do. And of course the standard
disclaimer that this list changes from day to day holds :) And it was
constructed with no reference to my CD collection as otherwise I would
never have limited to so few! There's a lot of doubling up with the
artists... the idea is that I'd not want to do without any of those
works (or dozens of others!) but I want to list as many separate
entities as possible...
No particular order:
- -- John Zorn/Masada Chamber Ensembles - Bar Kokhba/Circle Maker
- -- Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds - Tender Prey (or Your Funeral, My Trial;
or anything else you like from Boys Next Door onwards. No really, Tender
Prey above all else)
- -- Future Sound of London - ISDN *AND* Lifeforms EP, and, dammit,
everything else!
- -- Mu-ziq - Lunatic Harness or Mu-ziq vs the Auteurs or Bluff Limbo...
- -- Aphex Twin - Selected Ambient Works Vol II and Girl/Boy EP and I Care
Because You Do etc etc
- -- Squarepusher - Big Loada EP (I love this more and more - better than
both his albums IMHO)
- -- Various - Funkjazztical Tricknology and Flexistentialism on the
wonderful Ninja Tune label
- -- Amon Tobin - Pirhana Breaks EP or Bricolage
- -- The Clouds (now sadly departed Sydney band) - Penny Century or
Thunderhead or...
- -- Pop Will Eat Itself - This is the day, This is the hour, This is This
or the limited edition UK double CD of Two Fingers My Friends
- -- They Might be Giants - Flood or Then - the Early Years
- -- Not Drowning, Waving (Melbourne band, also sadly no longer with us) -
Claim (or any other of their albums)
- -- Cocteau Twins - Blue Bell Knoll
- -- This Mortal Coil - Blood
- -- (Various) - Soundtrack to Wings of Desire (Der Himmel Uber Berlin),
film by Wim Wenders
- -- Various - Lost in the Stars and/or September Songs (both are the
songs of Kurt Weill) [* - see note]
- -- Ravel - Piano Concerti and selected orchestral works; Piano - Pascal
Roge, Montreal Symph (?) conducted Dutoit.
- -- Stravinsky - Rite of Spring with Shostakovich - Symphony No 5,
Cleveland Orchestra conducted Lorin Maazel. Pity it doesn't have
Petrouchka too. Or Shosta 10 instead, but no 5's great...
- -- Mahler - Symphony No 4, Cleveland Orchestra conducted George Szell
with Judith Raskin - mezzo soprano. Alternatively No 6, Vienna Symph
under Pierre Boulez or No 7, Chicago Symph under Claudio Abbado.
- --Shostakovich - String Quartets Nos 3, 7 and 8, Borodin String Quartet
(FAR, FAR better than the Kronos Qtet version I'm afraid, all respect to
Kronos notwithstanding...)
There are of course horrifying ommissions and Mr Bungle's self-titled
album certainly deserves honourable mention... But that's quite a good
range of selections. Hope you enjoy, feel free to comment in private
emails ;)
Peter
[*NOTE: Does anyone else thing a Great Jewish Music Music: Kurt Weill
compilation would be superb? I know there's two really good Weill cover
albums out (see list), and that Zorn even contributed to the first one.
Nevertheless...
- --
Peter Hollo raven@cia.com.au http://www.cia.com.au/raven/
FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet
http://www.cia.com.au/raven/fourplay.html
"Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and
your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #309
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