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Zorn List Digest         Monday, April 6 1998         Volume 02 : Number 307



In this issue:
-
       Final Tally
       Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz??
       Final Tally
       Re: top 20 tallies
       Williams EMERGENCY!
       Williams EMERGENCY!
       Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz??
       No More Lists
       Final Tally
       Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz??
       Re: Mezz
       Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20)
       Re: ECM

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon,  6 Apr 1998 17:25:46 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Final Tally

The top 40 Artists in the John Zorn countdown are as follows:

62  Davis, Miles
59  Zorn, John
46  Naked City
44  Coltrane, John
39  Coleman, Ornette
39  Zappa, Frank (including Mothers)
23  King Crimson
22  Beatles
22  Mingus, Charles
22  Waits, Tom
16  Masada
16  Mr. Bungle
15  Captain Beefheart
15  Eno, Brian (including Fripp/Eno and Byrne/Eno)
14  Reich, Steve
13  Bailey, Derek (including w/ Ruins)
13  Frisell, Bill
13  Stravinksy, Igor
12  Material
12  Sonic Youth
11  Ayler, Albert
11  Bach
11  Dolphy, Eric
11  Kronos Quartet (including items listed under composer, but they were
mentioned as players)
11  Taylor, Cecil (including the Feel Trio and Unit)
10  Berne, Tim (including Bloodcount and Chaos Totale)
10  Boredoms
10  Braxton, Anthony
10  Cage, John
10  Faith No More
10  Glass, Philip
10  The various forms of P-Funk (including Funkadelic (6), Parliament (1) and GC
and PFunk AllStars (1))
9   Fall
9   Hendrix, Jimi
8   Art Ensemble of Chicago
8   Can
8   Pere Ubu
8   Sharrock, Sonny
8   Sun Ra
8   Velvet Underground (including Nico)
7   Aphex Twin
7   Branca, Glenn
7   Costello, Elvis
7   Monk, Thelonius
7   Varese, Edgard
7   Xenakis, Iannis

Notice Miles Davis beats out Zorn, but only barely.  Also, if you wrap Naked
CIty and Masada back into Zorn, as some of his other projects have been, he tops
the charts with a whopping 121 mentions, nearly twice as many as Davis.  Which
makes sense, considering the concept behind the list.


The top 23 Albums you oughta own or at least run out and buy right now:
23  Naked City - Naked City
17  Davis, Miles - Kind of Blue
15  Zorn, John - Bar Kokhba
12  Coleman, Ornette - Beauty Is a Rare Thing
12  Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme
11  Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante
10  Beatles - White Album
10  Naked City - Torture Garden
9   Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica
9   Coleman, Ornette - The Shape of Jazz to Come
9   Dolphy, Eric - Out to Lunch
8   Davis, Miles - Bitches' Brew
7   Ayler, Albert - Spiritual Unity
7   Davis, Miles - In A Silent Way
7   Naked City - Radio
7   Reich, Steve - Music for 18 Musicians
6   King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic
6   Masada - Alef
6   Sharrock, Sonny - Ask the Ages
6   Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation
6   Waits, Tom - Rain Dogs
6   Zappa, Frank - Weasels Ripped My Flesh
6   Zorn, John - Spy vs. Spy

then, 27 more for the top 50:
5   Dylan, Bob - Blood on the Tracks
5   Eno, Brian - Another Green World
5   Faith No More - King For a Day
5   Material - Seven Souls
5   Mingus, Charles - Presents Charles Mingus
5   Mr. Bungle - Mr. Bungle
5   Stravinksy, Igor - Rite Of Spring
5   Waits, Tom - Bone Machine
5   Zorn, John - Elegy
5   Zorn, John - News for Lulu
4   Aphex Twin - Saw II
4   Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
4   Beatles - Revolver
4   Coleman, Ornette - Free Jazz
4   Davis, Miles - Pangaea
4   Faith No More - Angel Dust
4   Frisell, Bill - Have A Little Faith
4   Glass, Philip - Einstein on the Beach
4   King Crimson - Discipline
4   King Crimson - Red
4   Primus - Frizzle Fry
4   Soft Machine - Third
4   Waits, Tom - Frank's Wild Years
4   Waits, Tom - Swordfishtrombones
4   Xenakis, Iannis - La Legende D'Eer
4   Zappa, Frank - Uncle Meat
4   Zorn, John - Spillane


Polls are now closed.
Eat up!
Peter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:35:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz??

Here we go again. Bix = cornet and some piano. Never even seen with a
clarinet (unless Pee Wee Russell was holding it).

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]




On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, J.T. de Boer wrote:

> I thought Bix Beiderbecke was a clarinetplayer?
>
> Jeroen de Boer
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Chris Bar{ett wrote:
>
> >  >I do
> > >believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano
> > >sax, not cornet.
> >
> > I may be shaky on the Whiteman info, but as a trumpet player, I *know* that
> > Bix was a coronet player, and hung with Hoagy Carmicheal.
> >
> I may be shaky on my Stravinsky/Shostakovitch/Whiteman info, but as a
> cornet player, I *know* a coronet is a thing that goes on yr head
>
> Err, I think... :-)
>
>
> -
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  6 Apr 1998 17:25:46 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Final Tally

The top 40 Artists in the John Zorn countdown are as follows:

62  Davis, Miles
59  Zorn, John
46  Naked City
44  Coltrane, John
39  Coleman, Ornette
39  Zappa, Frank (including Mothers)
23  King Crimson
22  Beatles
22  Mingus, Charles
22  Waits, Tom
16  Masada
16  Mr. Bungle
15  Captain Beefheart
15  Eno, Brian (including Fripp/Eno and Byrne/Eno)
14  Reich, Steve
13  Bailey, Derek (including w/ Ruins)
13  Frisell, Bill
13  Stravinksy, Igor
12  Material
12  Sonic Youth
11  Ayler, Albert
11  Bach
11  Dolphy, Eric
11  Kronos Quartet (including items listed under composer, but they were
mentioned as players)
11  Taylor, Cecil (including the Feel Trio and Unit)
10  Berne, Tim (including Bloodcount and Chaos Totale)
10  Boredoms
10  Braxton, Anthony
10  Cage, John
10  Faith No More
10  Glass, Philip
10  The various forms of P-Funk (including Funkadelic (6), Parliament (1) and GC
and PFunk AllStars (1))
9   Fall
9   Hendrix, Jimi
8   Art Ensemble of Chicago
8   Can
8   Pere Ubu
8   Sharrock, Sonny
8   Sun Ra
8   Velvet Underground (including Nico)
7   Aphex Twin
7   Branca, Glenn
7   Costello, Elvis
7   Monk, Thelonius
7   Varese, Edgard
7   Xenakis, Iannis

Notice Miles Davis beats out Zorn, but only barely.  Also, if you wrap Naked
CIty and Masada back into Zorn, as some of his other projects have been, he tops
the charts with a whopping 121 mentions, nearly twice as many as Davis.  Which
makes sense, considering the concept behind the list.


The top 23 Albums you oughta own or at least run out and buy right now:
23  Naked City - Naked City
17  Davis, Miles - Kind of Blue
15  Zorn, John - Bar Kokhba
12  Coleman, Ornette - Beauty Is a Rare Thing
12  Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme
11  Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante
10  Beatles - White Album
10  Naked City - Torture Garden
9   Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica
9   Coleman, Ornette - The Shape of Jazz to Come
9   Dolphy, Eric - Out to Lunch
8   Davis, Miles - Bitches' Brew
7   Ayler, Albert - Spiritual Unity
7   Davis, Miles - In A Silent Way
7   Naked City - Radio
7   Reich, Steve - Music for 18 Musicians
6   King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic
6   Masada - Alef
6   Sharrock, Sonny - Ask the Ages
6   Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation
6   Waits, Tom - Rain Dogs
6   Zappa, Frank - Weasels Ripped My Flesh
6   Zorn, John - Spy vs. Spy

then, 27 more for the top 50:
5   Dylan, Bob - Blood on the Tracks
5   Eno, Brian - Another Green World
5   Faith No More - King For a Day
5   Material - Seven Souls
5   Mingus, Charles - Presents Charles Mingus
5   Mr. Bungle - Mr. Bungle
5   Stravinksy, Igor - Rite Of Spring
5   Waits, Tom - Bone Machine
5   Zorn, John - Elegy
5   Zorn, John - News for Lulu
4   Aphex Twin - Saw II
4   Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
4   Beatles - Revolver
4   Coleman, Ornette - Free Jazz
4   Davis, Miles - Pangaea
4   Faith No More - Angel Dust
4   Frisell, Bill - Have A Little Faith
4   Glass, Philip - Einstein on the Beach
4   King Crimson - Discipline
4   King Crimson - Red
4   Primus - Frizzle Fry
4   Soft Machine - Third
4   Waits, Tom - Frank's Wild Years
4   Waits, Tom - Swordfishtrombones
4   Xenakis, Iannis - La Legende D'Eer
4   Zappa, Frank - Uncle Meat
4   Zorn, John - Spillane


Polls are now closed.
Eat up!
Peter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:49:19 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: top 20 tallies

Peter,

I would like a copy.  Could you send both formats, please?
I appreciate all the time you've spent on this!

Thanks,
Dan

At 12:30 PM -0500 4/6/98, [e-mail] wrote:
>Again, I have the full list in either Windows XL or text file format.
>Let me know if you want a copy.
>
>Peter
>
>
>[e-mail]
>
>-




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600
From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Williams EMERGENCY!

Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album?




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600
From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Williams EMERGENCY!

Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album?




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 15:36:54 -0800
From: George Grella <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz??

J.T. Boer writes:


> I thought Bix Beiderbecke was a clarinetplayer?
>
> Jeroen de Boer
>
For the love of Mike!  Bix played the cornet!  Mezz played the
clarinet!  It's those letters at the end of the alphabet that can be
confusing.

This is true too:  Bix was a fair pianist.  "in a Mist" is a nice tune
he wrote and recorded playing the piano.  But let's settles this once
and for all.  Look for a Bluebird CD "Bix Lives!" with a picture of a
guy on the cover holding a cornet.  Decipher symbology from there.

gg


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:57:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: No More Lists

Okay campers, time for the list owner to clapmpdown.

I'm getting deluged with unsubcription requests
and bounced messages from full mailboxes.

This is a discussion mailing list meant to have
a high signal-to-noise ratio (especially compared
to the USENET newsgroups). Lists without commentary
are considered noise by me. Therefore...

*** No more list postings to the zorn-list. ***

If someone wants to do a survey, they can collect the
results privately and post a summary.

If you want to discuss a great live show you saw,
discuss it.

If you want to talk about a disappointing album you
bought, talk about it.

Let's not generate a list for every topic that interests
us. Instead, let's go back to talking about those very topics.

cheers,
mike rizzi
zorn-list-owner-and-no-fun-guy

p.s. other than the recent list making frenzy,
the zorn-list has been the pillar of an excellent
mailing list.





- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  6 Apr 1998 17:25:46 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Final Tally

The top 40 Artists in the John Zorn countdown are as follows:

62  Davis, Miles
59  Zorn, John
46  Naked City
44  Coltrane, John
39  Coleman, Ornette
39  Zappa, Frank (including Mothers)
23  King Crimson
22  Beatles
22  Mingus, Charles
22  Waits, Tom
16  Masada
16  Mr. Bungle
15  Captain Beefheart
15  Eno, Brian (including Fripp/Eno and Byrne/Eno)
14  Reich, Steve
13  Bailey, Derek (including w/ Ruins)
13  Frisell, Bill
13  Stravinksy, Igor
12  Material
12  Sonic Youth
11  Ayler, Albert
11  Bach
11  Dolphy, Eric
11  Kronos Quartet (including items listed under composer, but they were
mentioned as players)
11  Taylor, Cecil (including the Feel Trio and Unit)
10  Berne, Tim (including Bloodcount and Chaos Totale)
10  Boredoms
10  Braxton, Anthony
10  Cage, John
10  Faith No More
10  Glass, Philip
10  The various forms of P-Funk (including Funkadelic (6), Parliament (1) and GC
and PFunk AllStars (1))
9   Fall
9   Hendrix, Jimi
8   Art Ensemble of Chicago
8   Can
8   Pere Ubu
8   Sharrock, Sonny
8   Sun Ra
8   Velvet Underground (including Nico)
7   Aphex Twin
7   Branca, Glenn
7   Costello, Elvis
7   Monk, Thelonius
7   Varese, Edgard
7   Xenakis, Iannis

Notice Miles Davis beats out Zorn, but only barely.  Also, if you wrap Naked
CIty and Masada back into Zorn, as some of his other projects have been, he tops
the charts with a whopping 121 mentions, nearly twice as many as Davis.  Which
makes sense, considering the concept behind the list.


The top 23 Albums you oughta own or at least run out and buy right now:
23  Naked City - Naked City
17  Davis, Miles - Kind of Blue
15  Zorn, John - Bar Kokhba
12  Coleman, Ornette - Beauty Is a Rare Thing
12  Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme
11  Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante
10  Beatles - White Album
10  Naked City - Torture Garden
9   Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica
9   Coleman, Ornette - The Shape of Jazz to Come
9   Dolphy, Eric - Out to Lunch
8   Davis, Miles - Bitches' Brew
7   Ayler, Albert - Spiritual Unity
7   Davis, Miles - In A Silent Way
7   Naked City - Radio
7   Reich, Steve - Music for 18 Musicians
6   King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic
6   Masada - Alef
6   Sharrock, Sonny - Ask the Ages
6   Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation
6   Waits, Tom - Rain Dogs
6   Zappa, Frank - Weasels Ripped My Flesh
6   Zorn, John - Spy vs. Spy

then, 27 more for the top 50:
5   Dylan, Bob - Blood on the Tracks
5   Eno, Brian - Another Green World
5   Faith No More - King For a Day
5   Material - Seven Souls
5   Mingus, Charles - Presents Charles Mingus
5   Mr. Bungle - Mr. Bungle
5   Stravinksy, Igor - Rite Of Spring
5   Waits, Tom - Bone Machine
5   Zorn, John - Elegy
5   Zorn, John - News for Lulu
4   Aphex Twin - Saw II
4   Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
4   Beatles - Revolver
4   Coleman, Ornette - Free Jazz
4   Davis, Miles - Pangaea
4   Faith No More - Angel Dust
4   Frisell, Bill - Have A Little Faith
4   Glass, Philip - Einstein on the Beach
4   King Crimson - Discipline
4   King Crimson - Red
4   Primus - Frizzle Fry
4   Soft Machine - Third
4   Waits, Tom - Frank's Wild Years
4   Waits, Tom - Swordfishtrombones
4   Xenakis, Iannis - La Legende D'Eer
4   Zappa, Frank - Uncle Meat
4   Zorn, John - Spillane


Polls are now closed.
Eat up!
Peter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:35:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz??

Here we go again. Bix = cornet and some piano. Never even seen with a
clarinet (unless Pee Wee Russell was holding it).

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]




On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, J.T. de Boer wrote:

> I thought Bix Beiderbecke was a clarinetplayer?
>
> Jeroen de Boer
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Chris Bar{ett wrote:
>
> >  >I do
> > >believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano
> > >sax, not cornet.
> >
> > I may be shaky on the Whiteman info, but as a trumpet player, I *know* that
> > Bix was a coronet player, and hung with Hoagy Carmicheal.
> >
> I may be shaky on my Stravinsky/Shostakovitch/Whiteman info, but as a
> cornet player, I *know* a coronet is a thing that goes on yr head
>
> Err, I think... :-)
>
>
> -
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:32:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mezz

Take anything Mezz sez with a large grain of salt (or maybe the type of
spliff Mezrow would have preferred). Let's just say he and the truth
were little more than distant cousins.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]








On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, James Douglas Knox wrote:


> Oh, this was the source of my confusion: I've just been reading Milton
> "Mezz" Mezzrow's "Really The Blues" (a fantastic, idiomatic insider's
> account of the early days of jazz - written in patois of the day), and he
> talks about how great was the performance of Stravinsky's piece by
> Herman's band.
>
> He talks about some pretty crazy binges with Bix as well, so, yeah - what
> Ken says is spot-on.
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:18:55 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20)

>At 01:26 PM 4/6/98 +1000, James Douglas Knox wrote:
>>
>>On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote:
>>
>>> Caveman Shoestore -  "Flux"
>>> Caveman Hughscore -  self-titled  (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh
>>> Hopper)
>>> Hughscore -  "High Spot Paradox"
>>
>>This doesn't mean a damn thing to me: please tell me more...
>>
>        The only thing I know about these releases is that they involve Wayne
>Horvitz bass veteran Fred Chalenor (Zony Mash, Pigpen, etc.).
>
Was waiting for someone else to chime in on this thread, but here goes...

Caveman Shoestore was Fred Chalenor(bass), Henry Franzoni(drums) and Elaine
DiFalco(vocals, keys). Fred and Henry were in numerous Northwest
experimental/improv rock bands including Face Ditch, Boodlers, and the best
live, though never recorded, version of the Tone Dogs. They released 2
albums as Caveman (Master Cylinder and Flux), and a third as Caveman
Hughscore, which added ex-Soft Machine bassist and composer Hugh Hopper.
Caveman Split up a couple of years ago, but Fred, Elaine and Hugh Hopper
continued collaborating, and recently released a CD as just "Hughscore".
Fred also plays with Zony Mash, Freestyle Candela and many other Seattle
bands, and is one of the best electric bassists on the planet, in my
opinion. Henry currently plays in Minus, with a CD on New & Improv Music.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:13:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ECM

More guitar stuff. I think rough & ready was what is desired. If any of
the below can mix the intelligence, grit and ideas of folks like Archie
Shep, Frank Wright, Glen Spearmann, Charles Gayle etc. etc. I'd like to
know about it.

Of course maybe we're comparing apples and oranges (or is it fuzzboxes and
saxophone keys), but IMHO I don't think any of the below are going to
lead anyone to the Art Esemble or other "outside" music.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

If there were fewer guitars and more saxophones around, the world would
be a better place






On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Sean Terwilliger wrote:

> > >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art
> > >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping
> > >pills.
>
> What about...
> Steve Tibbetts
> David Torn
> Krakatau
> Bill Frisell
> Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81)
>
> -Sean
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #307
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