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v02.n304
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1998-04-04
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #304
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, April 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 304
In this issue:
-
top 20 lists
Re: top 20 lists
Re: top 20 lists
top 20
Don Byron
Re: Don Cab
Re: Ken Nordine
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #281
late top 20 and others
Re: Don Byron
Re: Top 20 Albums
RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago
Re: Don Byron
Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago
top live shows
math rock
Re: Art Ensemble of Chicago
Re: top live shows
Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago
Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago
better late than never top 20
ECM
Re: ECM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 01:05:37 -0800
From: frenesi <frenesi@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: top 20 lists
have to say, im really disappointed in y'all....
not once, havning gone half blind from reading all these lists, (and
enjoying everyminute of it!!) have i seen mentioned one of the greatest
discs of all time....
<<mainstream>> by quiet sun
z.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:06:52 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: top 20 lists
> have to say, im really disappointed in y'all....
>
> not once, havning gone half blind from reading all these lists, (and
> enjoying everyminute of it!!) have i seen mentioned one of the greatest
> discs of all time....
>
> <<mainstream>> by quiet sun
haven't seen Michael Bolton's "Secret Passion" (or whatever it was)
either...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 03:36:57 -0700
From: frenesi <frenesi@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: top 20 lists
Julian wrote:
> haven't seen Michael Bolton's "Secret Passion" (or whatever it was)
> either...
not to mention...michael jackson's "thriller"...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 23:21:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA>
Subject: top 20
Cage, Monk (Tony de Mare): Pianos and Voices
Arvo Part (Jarvi conducting): 3 Symphonies/Cello Concerto/Pro e Contra
New York Composers Orchestra: First Program in Standard Time
Zorn/Frisell/Lewis: News for Lulu
Zorn: Naked City
Zorn: Bar Kokhba
Marty Ehrlich: Traveller's Tale
Kletka Red: Hijacking
Mr. Bungle: DV or s/t - can't decide
Miles Davis: Kind of Blue
John Coltrane: Africa/Brass
Pixies: Bossanova
Tool: Aenima
Pantera: Vulgar Display of Power (for Doug!)
Danzig: s/t
Jimi Hendrix: Jimi Plays Monterey
John Frusciante: Niandre Lades/Usually Just a T-shirt
Me Mom & Morgantaler: Shiva Space Machine
SNFU: ...And No One Else Wanted To Play
Sunny Day Real Estate: Diary
Cappy D'Angelo
Student at Law - Intellectual Property
Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering
Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion
Victoria, B.C., CANADA
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:46:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Don Byron
Speaking of Don Byron, since he was mentioned on the last list, does
anyone know when he will have something new out? It's strange, but he
only has two albums of original stuff, plus 2 cover albums and 1 live
album, in 7-8 years. Maybe he's too involved in political stuff. Any
help would be appreciated. Thanks.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:09:58 EDT
From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Don Cab
In a message dated 98-04-04 11:08:41 EST, you write:
<< > Some passages seem like they must be improvised, but the
> group performance is so tight that I wonder if they are. Can anyone shed
> any light on this? I suppose that Storm & Stress, DC guitarist Ian T.
> Williams' other band, might stand as an answer. Their music sounds like the
> result one would get when applying the ideas of free improv to an electric
> guitar/electric bass/drums lineup. That is, if their songs weren't each
> thoroughly composed. Kinda weird.
I haven't heard much Don Cab, but my impression from talking with Ian is
that their pre-S&S material was very tightly composed. S&S, as I
understand it, use composed motivic cells, which the players are free to
interpret at any tempo and repeat as often as they like. Kevin Shea,
their original drummer, had been playing aroung Pittsburgh with free music
groups for some time before S&S formed. >>
Any of this Storm and Stress material available on CD?
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:10:01 EDT
From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Ken Nordine
In a message dated 98-04-04 21:11:13 EST, you write:
<< The only Ken Nordine I've heard is off the Beat Generation box set -
what're people's thoughts on his different recordings? Any distinctly good
collections? >>
Look for his LPs/CDs with backup by the Fred Katz Group- by far better than
his later output. Speaking of the Fred Katz Group, his ensemble is featured
in the soundtrack of a 50's movie about a plant that ate people- later remade
featuring Rick Moranis in the starring role. Never can remember the name of
it though...
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 01:34:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Matsumoto <wedge@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #281
>From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
>Subject: West Coast (US) tour of Fred Frith?
>
>Does anybody know if Frith will really tour on the West Coast in the
>near future? I remember reading about a tour with Larry Ochs and
>Miyaka Masaoka.
>
> Patrice.
Apparently he's playing the DuMaruier International Jazz & Blues
Festival in Vancouver, B.C., in late June, then coming down
to California (yay).
That's all I know - i pulled it from www.fredfrith.com. The site
does mention the tour with Masaoka and Ochs, but it's got only
two dates: the Vancouver thing and a visit to Yoshi's in Oakland.
- -- craig
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:38:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben Wallace <carcass@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: late top 20 and others
my top 20 records, in no particular order:
OLD - The Musical Dimensions of Sleastak
Neurosis - Souls at Zero
Godflesh - Selfless
Disembowelment - Transcendence into the Peripheral
Into Another - Ignaurus
Painkiller - Buried Secrets
Napalm Death - Utopia Banished
Carcass - Tools of the Trad
Brutal Truth - Need to Control
Miles Davis - Get up with It
Final - One
Rapoon - Errant Angels
Anathema - The Silent Enigma
GOD - Anatomy of Addiction
Skullflower - IIIrd Gatekeeper
Faith No More - King For a Day...Fool for a Lifetime
Last Exit - Last Exit
Milk Cult - Love God
Fushitsusha - Purple Trap
Best Live Shows:
Painkiller - Slims, San Francisco 1995
Buckethead - Slims, San Francisco 1997
Zorn/Ruins - Knitting Factory, NY 1997
Sonic Youth - Cooler, NY 1997
Man is the Bastard - Gilman St, Berkeley 1995
Merzbow - a wherehouse, Oakland 1996
Trouble, Cathedral - Berkeley Square, Berkeley 1996
Brutal Truth, Pain Teens, Boredoms - One Step Beyond, Santa Clara, CA 1993
Paradise Lost - Stone, SF 1993
Crash Worship - Berkeley Square, Berkeley 1995
Fushitsusha - Great American Music Hall, SF 1996
Neurosis - Gilman St., Berkeley 1995
Ben Wallace
carcass@uclink.berkeley.edu
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:59:30 -0400
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Don Byron
William York wrote:
> Speaking of Don Byron, since he was mentioned on the last list, does
> anyone know when he will have something new out? It's strange, but he
>
> only has two albums of original stuff, plus 2 cover albums and 1 live
> album, in 7-8 years. Maybe he's too involved in political stuff. Any
>
> help would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> -
During a conversation with Uri Caine he mentioned that he had done some
work on the next Don Byron recording. Are you ready for this...covers
of War and Mandrill tunes!!! That was about six months ago and so far
nothing has come out. Don is quite a character. He has been doing
tours with Six Musicians and Bug Music.
Alan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 11:13:09 -0500
From: Phil Plencner <plencner@lnd.com>
Subject: Re: Top 20 Albums
With a "better late than never" mentality, as well as making this an ample
opportunity to start posting to this list, here is my top 20 albums:
Frank Zappa - Lather
Zappa - Weasles Ripped My Flesh
The Residents - Duck Stab/Buster & Glen
John Spencer Blues Explosion - Now I Got Worry
John Zorn - Spillaine
Zorn - Naked City
Bob Dylan - The Freewheeling...
Ozric Tentacles - Jurrasic Shift
Buddy Rich & Gene Krupa - Krupa & Rich
Capt. Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica
Jimi Hendrix - Axis: Bold As Love
The Police - Ghost In The Machine
Vinnie Colaiuta - Vinnie Colaiuta
"Cannonball" Adderly - Something Else
Funkadelic - Maggot Brain
Charlie Hunter Trio - Bing Bing Bing!
King Crimson - Larks Tongue In Aspic
Rush - 2112
John Coltrane - The Complete Africa/Brass Sessions
Les Claypool & The Holy Mackerel - Highball With The Devil
This list of course comes with the disclaimer that the list is in a constant state
of flux.
Latre,
Phil
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:35:32 -0400
From: "Francisca" <monsalve@interaccess.cl>
Subject: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago
Many of you have mentioned the Art Ensemble of Chicago in your Top 20
lists. I have been meaning to buy their albums for a long time now but I
have always held make, not knowing which are considered to be their best
recordings. Some of you mentioned albums released by ECM: do these albums
suffer from ECM's questionable, smooth (read: nauseating) production
values? I do own a couple of ECM releases, and although the music is great
(Rypdal, Godard & Parker/Phillips/Bley), I'd be hard-pressed to order any
other records by this label. The other albums you mention are on Nessa; I
know they released a box set some years ago. So, what would you recommend a
finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really
appreciate some suggestions. Thank you.
Francisca
Monsalve@interaccess.cl
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:03:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Don Byron
The Canadian big (jazz) band NOJO -- Neufeld Occipinti Jazz Orchestra
had Byron here in Toronto as a guest soloist earlier this year and will
do so again sometime in late spring/early summer. That will probably be
when the NOJO CD featuring Byron is released. I figure it'll be on
Auracle, the band's own label. The group is a post-bop, modern mainstream
group that certainly cuts any group like Maria Schneider's IMHO.
Cadence/North Country carries NOJO CDs.
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, William York wrote:
> Speaking of Don Byron, since he was mentioned on the last list, does
> anyone know when he will have something new out? It's strange, but he
> only has two albums of original stuff, plus 2 cover albums and 1 live
> album, in 7-8 years. Maybe he's too involved in political stuff. Any
> help would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:16:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago
Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art
Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping
pills.
A good place to start (and I apologize in advance if some don't exist
because I'm working fron my vinyl copies) is:
Full Force (ECM 1-1167)
Nice Guys (ECM 1-1126)
Urban Bushman (ECM 2-1211)
I'd also recommend checking out Lester Bowie's "The Great Pretender" (ECM
1-1209), featuring Bowie on trumpet, the late Philip Wilson on drums, and
on some tracks Hamiet Bluiett (baritone saxophone) and David Peaston and
Fontella Bass on vocals.
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Francisca wrote:
>
>
> Many of you have mentioned the Art Ensemble of Chicago in your Top 20
> lists. I have been meaning to buy their albums for a long time now but I
> have always held make, not knowing which are considered to be their best
> recordings. Some of you mentioned albums released by ECM: do these albums
> suffer from ECM's questionable, smooth (read: nauseating) production
> values? I do own a couple of ECM releases, and although the music is great
> (Rypdal, Godard & Parker/Phillips/Bley), I'd be hard-pressed to order any
> other records by this label. The other albums you mention are on Nessa; I
> know they released a box set some years ago. So, what would you recommend a
> finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really
> appreciate some suggestions. Thank you.
> Francisca
>
>
> Monsalve@interaccess.cl
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 14:26:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu>
Subject: top live shows
here's my list of the best concerts i have ever seen:
1) Fishbone (the give a monkey a brain tour) Metropol, Pittsburgh PA
2) Faith No More (Angel Dust tour) Metropol, pittsburgh pa
3) Faith NO MOre (Album of the year tour) Electric Factory, Philly, pa
4) Mr. Bungle (Disco Volante Tour) Black Cat, Washington dc
5) Jesus Lizard (Liar tour) City LImits, Penn hills, pa
6) Boredoms (their lollapalooza appearance) starlake ampitheater, pittsburgh
7) P- FUnk (same as above)
8) Masada (two years ago) Rodef Shamlom temple pittsburgh pa
9) Rolling Stones (voodoo lounge tour) three rivers stadium, pittsburgh (hey,
what can i say, they rock)
10) Neil Diamond (back in 89) civic arena, pittsburgh pa, (he's the king!)
jeff
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 14:27:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu>
Subject: math rock
you forgot the most IMPORTANT math-rock band of all time, BREADWINNER (which
was an off-shoor of Honor Role)
jeff
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:22:51 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Art Ensemble of Chicago
>I
>know they released a box set some years ago. So, what would you recommend a
>finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really
>appreciate some suggestions. Thank you.
> Francisca
For rough and earthy you simply must get the boxed set. Don't hesitate.
Keith
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:26:03 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: top live shows
Carl Stone/Otomo Yoshihide at the Alligator Lounge
words cannot express
the show was during a time of extreme stress between Japan and USA regarding
trade issues, and Clinton refusing to apologize for Hiroshima if memory
serves...for whatever reason there was high tension...at one point OY put
the Star Spangled Banner on the turntable...let it go for a few
seconds...then with fury slammed his fist on the record bringing it to a
profound halt...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:19:46 -0500
From: fate@telepath.com
Subject: Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago
>Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art
>Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping
>pills.
Waitaminnit - the Hal Russell/NRG Ensemble records are pretty damn wild and
hairy; Hal readily confessed to the Ayler influence. And those definitely
_don't_ have the glossy patina usually associated with ECM. I'd say those
are a better replacement for some trashy bathtub speed or acid...
Hal Russell/NRG Ensemble: the Finnish/Swiss Tour - great live document!
Hal Russell/NRG Ensemble: the Hal Russell Story (a fantastic record - it
breaks my heart that Hal died so soon after recording this...)
Hal Russell: Hal's Bells - a little mellower, but not by much - also solo
in every sense; Hal overdubbed all the instruments - vibes, sax, trumpet,
trap set, etc. - himself. Some amazing preconception of where everything
would fit, similar to Bill Evans' Conversations with Myself in that respect
- - and that respect only ;).
Further, lotsa Carla Bley's work is pretty raucous - try European Tour 1977
or Live! .
>>
>>So, what would you recommend a
>> finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really
>> appreciate some suggestions. Thank you.
>> Francisca
Rahsaan Roland Kirk! I'd say the man was as earthy as they come... find
reissued recordings prior to 73... the late Atlantics & the Warner Bros
releases get a little too sleek in song selection (read: pop) for my
tastes. And the posthumously released live recordings are all pretty great,
IMNSHO.
Also the obvious choices: Mingus, Monk, Coleman - but you probably already
know that ;)...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:40:27 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago
Francisca wrote:
The other albums you mention are on Nessa; I
> know they released a box set some years ago. So, what would you recommend a
> finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really
> appreciate some suggestions. Thank you.
>
The aggravating thing is that their six greatest records, IMHO (not
counting the Nessa box, which _is_ very great), haven't been reissued on
disc and could be neatly packaged in three pairs: Les Stances/People In
Sorrow, Phase One/w/Fontella Bass and Bap-Tizum/Fanfare. The first was
scheduled to be issued (by Blue Note, I think) last fall, but fell
through. I believe I also heard something about the latter being
released soon (through Koch? Steve?).
If you can locate the vinyl, though, go for 'em.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:25:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: William R Baker <wrb@christa.unh.edu>
Subject: better late than never top 20
Here's my top 20:
mr.bungle-discovolante & self titled
boredoms-super roots
masada-any ...um the box set
john zorn-elegy
radiohead-ok computer
john zorn-classic guide to strategy 1&2
secretchiefs 3-first grand constitution & Bylaws
Aphex Twin-Richard D. James & SAW II
Stravinsky-Rite of Spring
Peter Thomas-Film Musik
Squarepusher-hard normal daddy
nirvana-nevermind
forbidden planet-louis and Bebe Barron
mingus,mingus,mingus,mingus-charles mingus
angel dust-faith no more
under the pink-tori amos
portrait of jazz-bill evans
absolutely free-frank zappa
biggest disapointment
1) painkiller....I just can't get into it.
best concert experiences
1) 2 sets of Masada at the ICA in boston...a near religious experience
2) mr.bungle-disco volante tour at the avalon
3) fishbone -ok on cd but probably one of the best live bands i've ever
seen.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 16:36:44 -0400
From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: ECM
> >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art
> >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping
> >pills.
What about...
Steve Tibbetts
David Torn
Krakatau
Bill Frisell
Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81)
- -Sean
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:59:35 -0700
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: ECM
>> >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art
>> >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping
>> >pills.
>
>What about...
>Steve Tibbetts
>David Torn
>Krakatau
>Bill Frisell
>Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81)
>
>-Sean
That's right. I can't go to sleep with that shit on.
Keith
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #304
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