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Zorn List Digest        Saturday, April 4 1998        Volume 02 : Number 303



In this issue:
-
       [none]
       RE: Everyone's Top 20 lists
       Cut Outs
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301
       Re: Sainkho
       RE: Everyone's Top 20 lists
       Re: 6 disappointments 6
       Re: 6 disappointments 6
       Nels Cline Q...
       Perfect album?
       Disappointment/Frisell
       Re: Victoriaville festival
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301
       Re: Ken Nordine
       Re: Sainkho
       Re: Sainkho
       Re: Rzewski

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:42:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

Sorry to be coming in at the tail end of this tide, but I can't resist a
good list. Here are my 20, in random order:

Miles Davis, "In a Silent Way"
Tom Waits, "Frank's Wild Years"
John Coltrane, "Live at Birdland"
James Brown, "Live at the Apollo 1967"
Charles Gayle, "Touchin' On Trane"
King Crimson, "Red"
Sam Rivers, "Dimensions and Extensions"
Charles Mingus, "Presents Charles Mingus"
Joe McPhee, "Oleo and a Future Retrospective"
Ornette Coleman, "Beauty is a Rare Thing"
Hans Reichel, "The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir/Bonobo Beach"
Nels Cline, "Chest"
Oliver Lake, "Zaki"
Anthony Braxton, "Willisau (1991) Quartet"
Jimi Hendrix, "Band of Gypsys"
Tony Williams Lifetime, "Emergency"
Mahavishnu Orchestra, "Inner Mounting Flame"
Funkadelic, "Let's Take it to the Stage"
Bobby Previte, "Too Close to the Pole"
Bill Frisell, "Where in the World?"


Much overlap with other lists. And like so many others, there are a lot of
artists who take up considerable space on the shelves (Taylor, Zorn, etc.)
who don't make it here. I've enjoyed reading everyone's lists, especially
curveballs like Yes or Portishead -- isn't this sort of eclecticism what
draws us all to Mr. Z?

At any rate, let me weigh in a bit earlier with the live stuff (albeit
fewer than 20).

Max Roach solo in Tompkins Square Park 1996
Kronos Quartet at Oberlin College 1989
Bloodcount in Chicago 1997
Fugazi at St. Stephen's Church, D.C. 1991
Sonny Sharrock at 9:30 Club, D.C. 1992
Steve Lacy at Unity Temple, Oak Park 1997
Bill Frisell at Wolftrap, Virginia 1992
Evan Parker at the Vortex, London 1996

What fun!

Jason Bivins


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:25:57 -0500
From: Brandt Gebhardt <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Everyone's Top 20 lists

I have seen the term "math rock" applied to only two bands: Honor Role =
and Slint.  Album on Merge compiles two Honor Role LPs and three 7"s.  =
Slint has two LPs, Tweez and Spiderland, and a two song untitled EP on =
Touch and Go.  I consider Slint the better of the two bands and =
Spiderland their best work.  While an endorsement claimed that Honor =
Role is the band responsible for "math rock," I would suggest that =
Squirrel Bait is the great "proto-math-rock" combo.  Their two =
recordings have been re-released by Dexter's Cigar.  After Squirrel =
Bait, Brian McMahan became Slint's vocalist/guitarist, and David Grubbs =
and Clark Johnson formed Bastro with John McEntire.  The only Bastro =
album I have is Diablo Guapo on Homestead, but I consider it to be in =
the "math-rock" genre.  Judging from their Pravda release Not a Food, =
Cheer-Accident is a band that shares Don Caballero's proclivity for =
rhythmic complexity and vocal economy.  Finally, I would recommend =
Dazzling Killmen, described as "prog-rock hardcore," and Yona-Kit, =
featuring K.K. Null and Jim O'Rourke.  Both bands have releases on Skin =
Graft.

Brandt Gebhardt
[e-mail]

- ----------
From:  Dgasque [SMTP:[e-mail]]
Sent:  Saturday, April 04, 1998 4:10 AM
To:  [e-mail]
Subject:  Everyone's Top 20 lists

I also want to say thanks for all of the lists sent here for everyone to =
enjoy
(well, almost everybody...)

I went out and bought Don Cabellero 2, as it was on a bunch of lists.  =
It's a
great one, I must say.  Anyone care to share more CDs in this "math =
rock"
genre that DC have been cast into?

Faith No More is also on the "to buy" list...

=3Ddgasque=3D

- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:39:21 EST
From: [e-mail] (Geoff S Gersh)
Subject: Cut Outs

theres a cutout house located in New Jersey called Scorpio Music.
I think their email address is: [e-mail]

the last catalog i got from them had some good stuff in it....Miles,
Laswell, Zappa, etc etc......the minimum order is $100.


G. Gersh

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Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:04:19 EST
From: FUNKADELlC <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301

In a message dated 98-04-04 09:40:12 EST, you write:

<< Speaking of Waits, I noticed that probably the two albums of his that came
 up the most were "Raindogs" and "Bone Machine".  >>

Raindogs was his first outing in his so called "expiramental" period.. you
see.. for the majority of the 70's and early 80's Tom had a real "im a drunk
jazzy, beat generation guy" image and he really stuck to that.. until
raindogs.. i guess i can describe it as dark sounding with weird precussion.
alot of it reminds me of old italian or french film music in a way... Bone
Machine seems like its just an extension of that... but newer.. Personally my
favorite Waits releases are his follow ups to Rain Dogs, SWORDFISHTROMBONE and
the beautiful soundtrack to his play FRANK'S WILD YEARS... just my .02
- -cory sklar

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:47:39 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Jon Mooneyham)
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301

>In a message dated 98-04-04 09:40:12 EST, you write:
>
>Raindogs was his first outing in his so called "expiramental" period..
>
>Personally my
>favorite Waits releases are his follow ups to Rain Dogs, SWORDFISHTROMBONE and
>the beautiful soundtrack to his play FRANK'S WILD YEARS... just my .02
>-cory sklar
>
Swordfishtrombones was the first in Waits' then-new more whacked approach,
not Raindogs...
Jon M.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:59:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sainkho

There's one on Leo with the Moscow Composers Orchestra, and I
think yet another with an orchestra on that label.

Check Leo's Web site:

http://www.atlas.co.uk/leorecords/

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]





On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Tom Pratt wrote:

> I have recently been digging Sainkho Namchylak's music and was wondering
> what else is out there I don't know about. I have her duo with Evan
> Parker on Victo, a disc w/MCO called 'Let Permesky Dream' and her FMP
> solo disc. I know of 'Letters' on Leo, another MCO, a duo w/Rothenberg
> and a disc with Werner Ludi, Butch Morris & Peter Kowald. What else is
> out there?????
>
>                 -Tom Pratt
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:20:44 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Everyone's Top 20 lists

On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Brandt Gebhardt wrote:

> I have seen the term "math rock" applied to only two bands: Honor
> Role and Slint.  Album on Merge compiles two Honor Role LPs and three

strange!

Atavistic released compilation
of "math rock" music last year
and it included bands like
Quintron, Scissor Girls, Math
and other related artists,
mostly from Chicago and often
associated with the Bulb label.
i was always under the impression
that this kind of second wave
of "no wave" music was math rock.

if Honor Role started the term,
how did it come about? what's
the meaning? what's the determining
characteristics of math rock?

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:29:39 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6

> By the way, John Hudson sucks
>
> Why?
> 1- He plays all the tracks in the same way the old guitarrists did (Dean
> Menta couldn't do that)
> 2- He co-wrote many of the new songs (Jim Martin couldn't do so)
> 3- He tours (Trey didn't)

If you need to go through a checklist to tell you whether someone's good or
not, you're probably not understanding me. I don't like his playing, okay?
(Can I get any clearer than this?) I agree that Stripsearch is a great
song, but they needed a whole album full of songs that good.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 22:02:09 -0300
From: Lucio <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6

 By the way, John Hudson sucks

If you need to go through a checklist to tell you whether someone's good or
not, you're probably not understanding me. I don't like his playing, okay?
(Can I get any clearer than this?) I agree that Stripsearch is a great
song, but they needed a whole album full of songs that good.

    Let's give an end to this because we'll never agree in this point.
Although "Album of the Year" is far from being my favourite FNM album I
think there are some great tracks in it (Helpless, Last Cup of Sorrow, She
Loves Me Not, Stripsearch and Ashes to Ashes). In my first mail I said that
if any of you had some good arguments you might convince me to give KFAD
another listen. That's why I couldn't accept just a "John Hudson sucks" as
an answer. But that's it, let's finish with this (I even like Trey's stuff
a lot, specially his work with Mr.Bungle and Secret Chiefs 3- I just didn't
like him for FNM)




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:11:14 EST
From: Dgasque <[e-mail]>
Subject: Nels Cline Q...

I was listening to Gogaga Internet Radio a few months ago and heard a Nels
Cline cut that was more musique concrete-sounding than his usual
jazz/rock/noise ventures.  Anyone know what CD this might have been from?

=dagsque=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:13:38 -0500
From: Uncle Meat <[e-mail]>
Subject: Perfect album?

    Now that we know what everybody would bring on a desert island,
maybe it would be great to ask ourselves if such a thing as a perfect
album exists.

    I don't know about you, but i don't see anything coming even close
in my own collection (i've got around 1100 of them).
... well maybe Zappa's L=E4ther


Uncle Meat

This idea was nice:
What are you listening to right now?

When i started this letter.....Off Minor (Thelonious Monk with John
Coltrane)
Now.....I've go my mojo working (The Zombies)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:22:46 +0100
From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
Subject: Disappointment/Frisell

>"Keith McMullen" wrote
>Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments

>>[Artur Nowak]  Hmmm... I love Frisell's solo work, especially Nonesuch
>>records. Please explain: What did you heard before Frisell's solo albums,
>>that made your expectations higher, then his solo works? Naked City? What
>>is better, than albums published under his own name? Bill Frisell Band?


>I can't explain it. Character defect perhaps (mine). Perhaps seeing him live
>was what really killed the recordings for me. I saw him in Santa Monica on
>the BEFORE WE WERE BORN tour and it remains tied for first with the
>absolutely GREATEST performances I have ever heard. I'm a HUGE Frisell fan.
>I just don't like his own recordings. It doesn't make any sense. I've traded
>in every Frisell CD I've ever purchased. I do love him with Berne
>('Theoretically' and 'Fulton St. Maul') and Zorn and Bryars and Motian and
>that clarinetist whose name I'm blocking right now....................

>Just ignore me.

Keith, just so you know you are not alone, I too really dislike Frisell's
albums.  Dumped every one of them I have bought.  I to like his work with
Naked City, the Paul Motian trio stuff, and I assume the clarinetist thing
you mention above is his playing on Don Byron's Tuskegee Experiments, which
is a great album.  I don't like Theoretically though. The only Berne album
I've traded in. Sounded to me like new age twaddle (I'm gonna get flamed.)
There's something about Frisell's choice of material and combined with
style that just bore me to death.  His album with the John Hiatt song, the
Madonna one, etc was, to my ears, bad elevator music. The only one I regret
not keeping, just so I could give it another chance, is an early Nonesuch
album, with a long track arranged by Zorn, can't remember the name of the
album.  I think I have managed to put his own album into some back part of
my memory, where I try to keep them hidden so it doesn't sour my opinion of
his other work.

Dan


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:03:58 -0500
From: Uncle Meat <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Victoriaville festival

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 11:24:23 -0500  Dora Agiotis wrote:
> >
> > Is anyone going to the Victoriaville Festival in Montreal, Canada
> this May?
> > John Zorn is playing a couple of shows, as well as Mike Patton, Ikue
> Mori and
> > others.
>
> I do. After ten years on using flaky excuses, I decided to take the
> jump (it
> is also true that the program is hard to beat).
>
>         Patrice.
>
> -I do too.  Just like M. Rousell, this will be my first attendance at
> this festival.  For me it's not really a big problem to get there: i
> live just an hour an a half from there.  It's on this list that
> someone made me realize that the ticket were in sale.  The next
> morning, i bought the tickets for four shows (wich gives you a 15%
> discount).  I'll ge going to see:

- -John Zorn - Modern Chamber Music-Rene Lussier - Solo
- -Mike Patton - New works for ensemble & voyeur
- -Ikue Mori-Mike Patton-John Zorn (a show that i first saw on the knit's
real player cam, because i don't have the chance like some of you to
live in New-York)

    I some of you are going to the festival, maybe it would be great to
meet those with whom we spend some time every day.


Uncle Meat



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 18:06:47 -0800
From: Rob DeNunzio <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301

 Personally my
>favorite Waits releases are his follow ups to Rain Dogs, SWORDFISHTROMBONE
and
>the beautiful soundtrack to his play FRANK'S WILD YEARS... just my .02
>-cory sklar
>
I can't belive I omitted Swordfistrombone. I think I also may have
misattributed some songs off it to Rain Dogs since I didn't have the discs
nearby. Those two albums have always seemed completely linked together for
me - I could never listen to one without following it up with the other. I
hope I didn't create any confusion.

Rob DeNunzio
Hi-Fi Mundo
http://www.teleport.com/~hifim


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 18:11:13 -0800
From: Rob DeNunzio <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Nordine

At 11:00 AM 4/4/98 -0800, Todd Bramy wrote:
>>Here's my 20 albums, no specific order..
>>
>>11. Ken Nordine - The Best of Word Jazz Volume 1 (if anyone knows anything
>>about this guy, besides his other album, Colors, or his radio show, please
>>tell me)
>
>I LOVE this guy. I discovered him nestled in my Grandfather's record
>collection several years ago and while I have meant to buy some of his
>other recordings, all I have is a tape of that record. It's called "How Are
>Things In Your Town" 1960 Blue Thumb Records 2 LP set.
>
>The only other instances of him I have are on two Hal Wilner
>compilation/tribute projects: "Stay Awake" - the Disney Tribute; and
>"Closed on Account of Rabies" - the Edgar Allen Poe Tribute.
>
>Now I have a question: radio show?
>
>Todd
>
At 11:00 AM 4/4/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Here's my 20 albums, no specific order..
>>
>>11. Ken Nordine - The Best of Word Jazz Volume 1 (if anyone knows anything
>>about this guy, besides his other album, Colors, or his radio show, please
>>tell me)
>
>I LOVE this guy. I discovered him nestled in my Grandfather's record
>collection several years ago and while I have meant to buy some of his
>other recordings, all I have is a tape of that record. It's called "How Are
>Things In Your Town" 1960 Blue Thumb Records 2 LP set.
>
>The only other instances of him I have are on two Hal Wilner
>compilation/tribute projects: "Stay Awake" - the Disney Tribute; and
>"Closed on Account of Rabies" - the Edgar Allen Poe Tribute.
>
>Now I have a question: radio show?
>
>Todd
>
    The only Ken Nordine I've heard is off the Beat Generation box set -
what're people's thoughts on his different recordings? Any distinctly good
collections?

Rob DeNunzio
Hi-Fi Mundo
http://www.teleport.com/~hifim


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 11:05:38 +0800
From: Jan-Wen Lu <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sainkho

> I have recently been digging Sainkho Namchylak's music and was
> wondering
> what else is out there I don't know about. I have her duo with Evan
> Parker on Victo, a disc w/MCO called 'Let Permesky Dream' and her FMP
> solo disc. I know of 'Letters' on Leo, another MCO, a duo w/Rothenberg
>
> and a disc with Werner Ludi, Butch Morris & Peter Kowald. What else is
>
> out there?????
>
>                                 -Tom Pratt
>

Sainkho is a truly amazing voclaist. Please check the following web site
for her items:

http://www.avantart.com/music/sainkho/sainkhom.html/


I believe there are more items that she joins as guest.



Jan-Wen Lu



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:10:13 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Sainkho

At 01:22 PM 4/4/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote:
>I have recently been digging Sainkho Namchylak's music and was wondering
>what else is out there I don't know about. I have her duo with Evan
>Parker on Victo, a disc w/MCO called 'Let Permesky Dream' and her FMP
>solo disc. I know of 'Letters' on Leo, another MCO, a duo w/Rothenberg
>and a disc with Werner Ludi, Butch Morris & Peter Kowald. What else is
>out there?????

I've got an album by her on Crammed, Out of Tuva, which is a compilation of
her work from traditional folk songs recorded starting in 1986 in Tuva,
through her more pop-oriented work with Hector Zazou and Vincent Kenis in
Europe in 1993.  A fair amount of variety, but all much more straight and
traditional than anything I imagine in the list you describe (none of which
I've heard).


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 00:01:50 -0500
From: stephen drury <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Rzewski

>Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 20:27:37 -0500
>From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Rzewski Birthday Concert
>
>In celebration of Rzewski's 60th birthday, the Kitchen (NYC) is hosting
>three concerts devoted to his music April 16-18. Among the performers
>will be Anthony de Mere, Aki Takahashi and our own Steven Drury.
>
>Mr. Drury, would you be kind enough to let us in on the specific
>programs for these three days?
>
Yo!  only problem is, I only know that I'm playing on April 17, "The People
United" variations.  I believe Tony DeMare is also playing that day, the
"Piano Piece #4" with monster repeated notes.  Does the Kitchen have a web site?
- -- steve


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #303
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