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1998-04-03
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #301
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, April 4 1998 Volume 02 : Number 301
In this issue:
-
Re: musique concrete
Re: Bomb ass live shows
Re: Mats Gustafsson / P. Fish Eye
listening to
20
Re: listening to
Re:
Re: Ribot
Re: 6 disappointments 6
Re: Top 20 disappointments
Re: Top 20 (JZ's Radio)
Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish)
20 best shows (well, make it 10)
RE: Top 20 disappointments
Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish)
Everyone's Top 20 lists
Re: Bargain Bins
Re: 6 disappointments 6
Re: 6 disappointments 6
Re: Marty Ehrlich
Disappointment: Boredoms Super Roots 5
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:15:09 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: musique concrete
> > > distinction between 'popular' and 'academic' even further. But to me,
> > > these terms are only indications of how many units a particular title
> > > managed to shift.
> >
> > Actually, i think a very valid point was raised here a little while ago
> > that there really are formal differences between 'academic' and
> > 'underground' electroacousticians, with the former making more use of
> > dynamic changes and tension/release passages (which is very much part of
> > the western concert music tradition) while the latter tend towards more
> > sprawling ambient drones and such. I think there's something in that.
>
> I think that the main difference is that one has "Composer" on his
> business card (and, to a lesser extent, some subsidies and a desk in
> a University).
> Patrice.
Well, yes, i haven't ruled that out entirely, either... :)
- -jascha
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:41:26 -0800
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Bomb ass live shows
>5) Yes <blush> in SLO i know, i know.. but it was like a dream come true
>seeing Rick Wakeman and Steve Howe to me.. i thought id never see em on
stage
>playing those songs! I wasnt alive in the 70's! about 96
My first two major rock shows back in the early 70s were ELP and YES in
separate shows in a hockey rink (?) in the middle of a cornfield in Chicago.
What is/was the name of that place? As Rolling Stone said at the end of a
review of the ELP show: 'At the end, the audience screamed for an encore,
but how could you possibly ask for more?' Blush now, but ECSTACY then. Brain
Salad Surgery with 4 ENORMOUS banks of speakers in the 4 corners of the
stadium. Stunning quadrophonic dinosaur prog rock BLISS.
Ahhh...now for a demitasse of herbal tea and Kind of Blue....honey...hand me
my walker...thanks...
later,
Keith
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 22:12:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "R. Lynn Rardin" <RARDIN%ORION@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mats Gustafsson / P. Fish Eye
KSH wrote:
>PARROt FISH EYE (for those of you who haven't seen Mats live) is NOT a
>good representation of Mats-in-the-flesh. I saw him solo in New Orleans
>thanks to the efforts of a very independent promoter there (no scene at
>all for frimprov down there)and it was AWESOME. Everyone says that live
>is always better than records: this is generally true for improv but not
>always. With Mats there's such a performance-emphasis that the energy
>is impossible. It was incredibly exciting and dynamic. And the
>slap-tongue and vocal techniques are mesmerizing.
I agree completely. Loved the Gustafsson I'd heard on record, but the live
performance is on a completely different level. I caught him a few months
back in duet with Ken Vandermark at a small record store in Cambridge, MA.
The intensity is incredible...indescribable, really. His tongueing is
something else (it made my tongue hurt sometimes just to listen to it).
His use of overtones is amazing. And that flutophone is pretty cool,
too. :^)
- -Lynn
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 20:33:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Bramy <tbramy@oz.net>
Subject: listening to
>Okay, I'm done. Hey, what are you listening to RIGHT NOW?
Pitchshifter's new one "www.pitchshifter.com".
todd
=83=83=83=83=83=83=83
"For every complex question there is a simple answer. And it is wrong."
H. L. Mencken
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:03:31 EST
From: Orangejazz <Orangejazz@aol.com>
Subject: 20
Here's my 20 albums, no specific order..
1. Ornette Coleman + Howard Shore, Soundtrack To Naked Lunch
2. Tom Waits - The Black Rider
two things relating to William Burroughs already..
3. John Zorn - Cobra live at the knitting factory
4. Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
5. John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
6. Morphine - good
7.Dead Kennedys - Plastic Surgery Disaster And In God We Trust
8. The VU boxset
9. The Pere Ubu box set
10.The Cramps - Date With Elvis
11. Ken Nordine - The Best of Word Jazz Volume 1 (if anyone knows anything
about this guy, besides his other album, Colors, or his radio show, please
tell me)
12. Frank Sinatra - The Very Best
13. Naked City - Naked City
14. Syd Barrett Box set
15. The Music Of Edgar Varese
16. Esquivel - Space Age Bachelor Pad Music
17. Violent Femmes - Violent Femmes
18. Jeff Buckley - Grace
19. Piano Sonatas and Interludes - John Cage
20. Zappa - Uncle Meat
Dissapointments
1. John Cale and Lou Reed solo albums, especially Lou Reed
2. Miles Davis - The 80's and beyond
3. Zappa after hot rats, but before his classical stuff
4. The end of "the elephant man", isn't that fucking sad..
Bargain Bin Discs
1. Stravinsky - Rite of Spring
2. Butthole Surfers - Pyschic Powerless and another man's sac
3. XTC - Nonsuch
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:19:50 -0800
From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: listening to
>>Okay, I'm done. Hey, what are you listening to RIGHT NOW?
Robert Wyatt's SCHLEEP over and over and over again
with a break now and then for the remixed SEVEN SOULS by Material
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:43:46 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re:
> Patrick Ivan Jenkins wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone out there knows the answer to the following
> > questions.
> >
> > 1)I read in an article on John Zorn's Masada, that the Masada
> > compositions are written in six or less staves of music
>
> During the recent Masada String Trio radio b-cast, JZ revealed that the
> comps are written just like standard jazz compositions. The heads are
> notated, and the rest is improv based on the chord changes of the head.
> If you've ever seen The Real Book this should be very familiar
Just as an example, Abidan (from Masada 3 and Bar Kokhba) has only 12 bars
in its cycle, repeated over and over (and over).
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:54:12 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Ribot
> Thinking I would check out some other Ribot, I picked up "Shoe String
> Symphonies" (Tzadik). IMO, the compositions on "Shoe String Symphonies"
> are lame, not exciting, not wonderful like "Mahlah" or FWIII, or "Painted
> Desert". The tracks on SSS are somewhat original but still lame.
> So then I thought that, perhaps, Ribot was a fantastic musician
> but not a fantastic songwriter, (because only on SSS had he composed
> the music) so I checked out "Don't Blame Me" (DIW),
I personally love Shoestring Symphonettes, particularly the "nice" tracks
(the ones written for the unfinished project). I was a bit disappointed by
Zorn's involvement though (I believe he's on it for all of 15 seconds).
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:00:50 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6
> 1- KING FOR A DAY- Faith No More
> Where were the keyboards in this album? Without Roddy FNM is NOT really
> FNM. It was just a good record from a good band (which didn't sound like
> FNM)
I don't know about you, but I would prefer to hear Trey than Roddy any day.
> 3- Z-ROCK HAWAII (Boredoms+Ween)
> Just Ween trademark songs with Eye shouting on them. They didn't create
any
> new sounds together, it's just each band doing their part.
"God In My Bed" is fantastic, as is "Tuchus" (for a while at least). "In
The Garden" is a great track too. I admit this track is more Ween than
anything, but I like Ween as well anyway. But those first two are
definitely riddled with the Boredoms influence. By the way, it's not
Boredoms and Ween, it's Eye and Ween. The others from the Boredoms are just
guests.
> 4- THE MOLLUSK- Ween
> They were more creative on the old days (The Pod, Pure Guava) when all
they
> had was a guitar and a drum machine.
Absolutely true. It's more an album full of "nice" songs, isn't it?
"Mutilated Lips" is a particularly nice one though.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:04:52 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments
> everything Frisell has recorded under his own name
Strange that this should come up when a few days ago, someone said they
couldn't decide between them all for "best albums". The only solo release I
have is "Nashville" which I think displays his wonderful playing very well.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:16:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Top 20 (JZ's Radio)
On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Rob DeNunzio wrote:
> The Penguin Guide had all
> of the ones issued to that point, and like a dolt, I took thier advice and
> purchased Heretic instead of Radio. From their descriptions, it seems like
> they mixed the two discs up - what they had described of Heretic was
> nothing like what it was. They also gave Radio a very low rating.
I agree that the Naked City entry is one of many where Cook and Morton
don't seem to have put much effort into listening to the records. But I
don't think they mixed them up. They just restricted their comments to
the packaging, and evidently liked _Heretic_ better than _Radio_.
Chris Hamilton
Swearing Off List-Making
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:08:41 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish)
> What is fascinating (to me) is the way in which there is an overlap in
> taste between/among those of us who are Zorn fans. Lots of Waits,
> Beefheart, Ornette, Miles - things which would seem to have little in
> common, but which appeal to lots of people who also like Zorn. Or is it
> just that EVERBODY likes Miles, Ornette, Waits, Beefheart? I dunno.
Speaking of Waits, I noticed that probably the two albums of his that came
up the most were "Raindogs" and "Bone Machine". I haven't actually got any
of his albums, can someone describe these two to me?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:27:28 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: 20 best shows (well, make it 10)
In no particular order (all shows in Sydney Australia):
1. Bob Ostertag - Artspace 1997
2. Mr Bungle - Narrabeen Sands 1996
3. Mr Bungle - Macquarie Uni 1996
4. Triaxiom - Strawberry Hills Hotel 1997
- a freejazz/funk group with one of my friends on sax
5. Maldoror - Harbourside Brasserie 1997
- Mike Patton/Merzbow made lots of noise
6. Primus - Alternative Nation 1995
7. Sydney Jazz Festival 1995
- with Max Roach, plus local band d.i.g.
8. Regurgitator - Metro 1996
- it hardly made sense, but they were supported by Boredoms!
9. Sultana Muhammad - Harbourside Brasserie 1996
- local weird band, supported by a jazz quartet.
10. Willem Breuker Kollektief - The Basement 1997
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:42:47 +0200
From: Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl>
Subject: RE: Top 20 disappointments
From: Keith McMullen [SMTP:mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us]
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 1998 2:29 AM
everything Frisell has recorded under his own name
[Artur Nowak] Hmmm... I love Frisell's solo work, especially Nonesuch
records. Please explain: What did you heard before Frisell's solo albums,
that made your expectations higher, then his solo works? Naked City? What
is better, than albums published under his own name? Bill Frisell Band?
:-)
____________________________________________________________________
Artur Nowak
www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 23:57:42 -0800
From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish)
At 04:08 PM 4/4/98 +1000, Julian wrote:
>> What is fascinating (to me) is the way in which there is an overlap in
>> taste between/among those of us who are Zorn fans. Lots of Waits,
>> Beefheart, Ornette, Miles - things which would seem to have little in
>> common, but which appeal to lots of people who also like Zorn. Or is it
>> just that EVERBODY likes Miles, Ornette, Waits, Beefheart? I dunno.
>
>Speaking of Waits, I noticed that probably the two albums of his that came
>up the most were "Raindogs" and "Bone Machine". I haven't actually got any
>of his albums, can someone describe these two to me?
>
At 04:08 PM 4/4/98 +1000, you wrote:
>> What is fascinating (to me) is the way in which there is an overlap in
>> taste between/among those of us who are Zorn fans. Lots of Waits,
>> Beefheart, Ornette, Miles - things which would seem to have little in
>> common, but which appeal to lots of people who also like Zorn. Or is it
>> just that EVERBODY likes Miles, Ornette, Waits, Beefheart? I dunno.
>
>Speaking of Waits, I noticed that probably the two albums of his that came
>up the most were "Raindogs" and "Bone Machine". I haven't actually got any
>of his albums, can someone describe these two to me?
>
>
Rain Dogs is probably his masterpiece, but there are others I would choose
above Bone Machine. Frank's Wild Years has some wonderful stuff on it, and
his older albums like Small Change are equally cool, even if they don't
rely as much on odd instrumentations. The fact that he appears on so many
of these lists isn't really shocking, considering that Greg Cohen is one of
his most important collaborators. Ribot's playing on Rain Dogs (two times
in one day, I gotta quit this) is phenomenal. I guess it only seems odd
because in the end, Tom is most memorable for his lyrics and his voice,
something I don't think too many of us would say about JZ.
The music on Rain Dogs is pretty varied, but sticks to a "junkyard meets
marimbas" kinda feel. Bone Machine never worked for me because the sound is
so much more polished, even considering Joe Gore's wonderful guitar
playing, and Brain's percussion fits (like "spasms", not "works"). Both of
these albums hot the tunes that people like to heist for films, too, which
might explain a little Zorn comparison: "Tango Til They're Sore" from Rain
Dogs in Jim Jarmush's Down By Law, and "Earth Died Screaming" in Terry
Gilliam's Twelve Monkeys. Good stuff, but most Beefheart fans I've talked
to think he's just a watered down version.
What I'm curious about is: with so much Beefheart and Waits being
mentioned recently, do I have to be the first to bring up Screamin' Jay
Hawkins?
Rob DeNunzio
Hi-Fi Mundo
http://www.teleport.com/~hifim
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 04:10:06 EST
From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com>
Subject: Everyone's Top 20 lists
I also want to say thanks for all of the lists sent here for everyone to enjoy
(well, almost everybody...)
I went out and bought Don Cabellero 2, as it was on a bunch of lists. It's a
great one, I must say. Anyone care to share more CDs in this "math rock"
genre that DC have been cast into?
Faith No More is also on the "to buy" list...
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 07:07:38 -0500
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Bargain Bins
At 08:26 PM 4/3/98 +0000, John McMahon wrote:
>
>In every good record store there is a bin which is filled with the
>incoming stuff that is too weird, unpopular, unclassifiable, for the
>owners to expect to make much money on. Or else it contains those items
>which for whatever reason the industry has decided to delete, and get
>rid of at a bargain price.
Sadly, while this happened a lot in the vinyl days, I've had such little
success since everything is CD that I've quit looking. Most of the bargain
bins for CDs have bad 80s rock albums, never anything remotely worthwhile.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:19:23 -0300
From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar>
Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6
Julian wrote: I don't know about you, but I would prefer to hear Trey
than Roddy any day.
Lucio replies: What do Trey have to do with Roddy? Of course I prefer him
to Jim Martin or Dean Menta but I don't know if I like the way he
influenced the album. Star AD and Cookoo for Caca sound too much like
Mr.Bungle, and the other tracks are just "normal" rock songs (Get Out for
example). I know Jim was too lazy and didn't colaborate in the writing of
many tracks but I miss Caffeine, The Real Thing, The Crab Song, As the Worm
Turns, Midlife Crisis, etc. But it seems FNM has finally found it's
guitarrist. If Hudson co-wrote "Stripsearch" as I heard he did, he then
deserves to stay in the band for many more albums.
Julian wrote: "God In My Bed" is fantastic, as is "Tuchus" (for a while
at least). "In The Garden" is a great track too. I admit this track is more
Ween than anything, but I like Ween as well anyway. But those first two are
definitely riddled with the Boredoms influence. By the way, it's not
Boredoms and Ween, it's Eye and Ween. The others from the Boredoms are just
guests.
Lucio replies: The problem with Z-Rock Hawaii is that it sounds like if
Ween never met the Boredoms. I don't know if they recorded the album
together but it looks like they didn't. Of course there are some good
tracks in it, the same as in the Mollusk, but I was expecting them to give
me something more (that's why they're disappointments. Because one knows
they're good and have a lot to offer). Hey, the rest of the Boredoms aren't
guests. The CD says "Z-Rock Hawaii are: Gene Ween, Dean Ween, Eye, Andrew
Weiss, Yamamoto, Yoshimi, Coleman and Yoshikawa (only Hira and Atari aren't
there).
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 22:24:02 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6
> Hey, the rest of the Boredoms aren't
> guests. The CD says "Z-Rock Hawaii are: Gene Ween, Dean Ween, Eye, Andrew
> Weiss, Yamamoto, Yoshimi, Coleman and Yoshikawa (only Hira and Atari
aren't
> there).
Oh ok, but mine says "Z-Rock Hawaii is Ween with Eye from the Boredoms". By
the way, John Hudson sucks :)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:22:31 -0500
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Marty Ehrlich
Keldon Drudge wrote:
> his `urlicht' on winter & winter (compositions by mahler, featuring
> dave
> douglas, joey baron, uri caine, etc.) is great.
>
URLICHT is a CD on winter & winter by Uri Caine, not Marty Ehrlich.
Alan Kayser
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 15:52:21 +0200
From: Friedrich Feger <ffeger@gwdg.de>
Subject: Disappointment: Boredoms Super Roots 5
Some weeks ago I bought a whole bunch of CDs, some of them recommended by
people on the list (that was the "best 97 release"- debate, not this "all
time greatest"). One I bought and unpacked not until today is Boredoms
Super Roots 5. I've never listened to a Boredoms record before, and I would
like to know if the above mentioned is representative for the band. I mean
there is five minutes of processed voice/instruments at the beginning,
which sounds great, but has told it's story in one minute. Then someone
shouts "Go!" and, as expected, it goes. 55 minutes more or less white noise
(one or two further extremely expressive "go!"s indented) with hardly no
detectable structural changes in it and hardly no dynamic differences. And
it was expensive!! Do I have to approach the record like I have to approach
Cage's 4'whatever''? Did I purchase something political *grin* or music?
Super Roots 1 was on some top 20 lists, so how is it compared to 5?
Fritz.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #301
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