ftp.xmission.com

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ ftp.xmission.com / 2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar / ftp.xmission.com / pub / lists / zorn-list / archive / v02.n294 < prev next >

Wrap

Internet Message Format | 1998-04-01 | 21KB

From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #294 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, April 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 294 In this issue: - Re: masada on sale Chad's 20 Re: Top 20 disappointments Twenty Part 2 Musiq Concrete; 3rd Stream Re: Miller / Noyes / Oh shit! (Was: Re: masada on sale) bryars Re: Top 20 disappointments Re: Musiq Concrete; 3rd Stream top 20 (or so) list Re[2]: Carl Stone's Mom Top 20 Report ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:13:47 +0000 From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> Subject: Re: masada on sale On Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:47:07 -0600, Rusty Crump wrote, > >CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it > >considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", > >except the one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only > >2-3 CDs which one should i pick up? > > FOUR. Abso-rootie-tootie-tootly. And on Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:01:32 -0600, Rusty Crump wrote: > 15. Masada - 4. > (For "Hobah" and no other reason.) For the sake of the CD Universe buyer whose name I've lost, the CD Rusty refers to is actually 5/Hei, not 4/Dalet. Dalet is good, but for an introduction you might want more than 18 minutes of music. I'm not sure which one I would recommend...1/Alef hooked me but good, and I've listened to 8/Het a lot recently. I'm not up to making a best-20 list. I've only got about 300 CDs, anyway. :-P - -- Charles - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:38:42 -0800 (PST) From: chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> Subject: Chad's 20 This list is very unstable, because it occasionaly blows up into something quite different. However there are some that will always remain my favorite. The Chad happys in no particular order: John Zorn-----Filmworks 1 CamperVanBeetoven-----Key Lime Pie Charles Mingus-----Three or Four Shades of Blue Tom Waits-----Bone Machine Naked City-----Radio Mr. Bungle-----Disco Volante Faith no More-----King for a Day Slayer-----Reign in Blood Captain Beefheart-----Trout Mask Replica Tom Waits-----Raindogs Ween-----The Pod Beatles-----White Album Extreme Noise Terror-----Peel Sessions De La Soul-----3 feet High and Rising Montiverdi-----L'Orfeo Miles Davis-----Bitches Brew Old and in the Way-----Old and in the Way Frank Zappa-----Weasles Eat my Flesh Butthole Surfers-----Widow Maker The Doors-----Morrison Hotel Wow. It looks kinda silly now that I look at it. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:16:39 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments >>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick <brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu> writes: >> Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most >> superficial variation, does not music make. I'd rather listen >> to a recording of Czerny exercises. brian> Don't know if it would make much difference (or if brian> you're already doing so), but judgment should optimally be brian> made on the original Obscure version, not the somewhat brian> awkward Point release with, IMHO, the unnecessary brian> introduction of Tom Waits into the proceedings. I have to jump in here for the Point version (I checked, and I did include it in my original list). There's more variation in the music (the various horn sections, etc.), and I think having Waits come in at the end was a stroke of genius, one of the few singers who *could* sing along with the tramp. I had the Obscure version since way back when, and so the piece was already familiar when the Point version came out, and hearing Waits was a magnificent coda to a recording which was already an old friend. Perhaps if I was approaching this work for the first time I'd feel differently. brian> Regarding "idea" pieces, this is perhaps an area where brian> non-musician listeners (like myself) might have an brian> advantage, where development or lack thereof may be less of brian> an issue. Maybe it becomes easier to consider a piece as an brian> 'art object' rather than as a specifically musical brian> work. For example, perhaps the ultimate relatively recent brian> idea piece (and one that could've made my Top 20 list) is brian> Alvin Lucier's 'I Am Sitting In A Room'. I easily sit brian> tranfixed, listening to it unfold--a non-musical process brian> that, incredibly, produces music! Wonderful! This 'setting brian> in motion' type of composition (and I think 'Jesus' Blood' brian> qualifies, as well as Eno's 'Discreet Music' and progeny) brian> has great inherent fascination for me. Some works of music increase in meaning when I know some story that accompanies them. Much of Lucier's work is like this, although I Am Sitting is unique in that the idea is presented as part of the piece, rather than accompaniment in the form of liner notes. Stockhausen's intuitive music is related as well. Sometimes I think my distance to some of, say, Braxton's music is because I don't know any stories (and the strange pictures he calls 'scores' don't help ;-). My appreciation of Butch Morris also increased after I started reading more about conduction. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:36:00 UT From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Twenty Part 2 Oh shit! I forgot a few. Can - Ege Bamyasi/Soon Over Babaluma/Future Days Eno/Byrne - My Life in the Bush of Ghosts Beatles - White Album Jesus Lizard - Goat Negativland - Big 10-8 Place - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:40:10 UT From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Musiq Concrete; 3rd Stream I second that whole-heartedly. I routinely put the title track on mix tapes for friends and they're like, That's SO wierd, but sorta funky... Plus, the development of two of the other pieces are excellent experiments in minimalism, but different than the usual definition. BTW, one of my favorite Musique Concrete pieces of all time is Revolution #9 by the Beatles. I love listening to Beatles A-Z weekends, just so I can hear this piece come over the radio, preceeded by the usual remarks about how this is routinely voted the LEAST favorite Beatles song by Beatles fans. I love it. Peter ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Date: 04/02/1998 1:02 PM May I suggest a great electronic record by a Composer, capital "C," with a more pop sensibility than you'll find in the pages of Computer Music Journal; the record is "Mom's" on New Albion, the Composer is Carl Stone. It's the best of all worlds; ambient, cut-ups, constructed tension and release; rhythms. The most listenable electronic music I know. gg - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 18:01:16 -0500 From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Miller / Noyes / Chris Genzel wrote: > > Tidbit about Mark Miller: he is married to a country singer in San Francisco; > > they have a band together that plays lots of weddings [it was a couple years > > ago]. > > So it seems like his musically more adventurous days are gone ... is he still > throwing firecrackers into the audience? :) I remember an early line-up of Arto's Ambitous Lovers playing at Soundscape, during a blinding snowstorm. Miller was kind enough to pour lighter fluid on the floor, and ignite it. Thus providing heat for the handful of listeners who made it to the show. > > > The same question goes for Charles K. Noyes -- I love his appearance on > > > "Memory Serves" and I also have "Improvised Music New York 1981". > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > - Chris. > > C'mon, there must be something you know about Miller and Noyes, or at least > a record you could recommend. I've been wracking my tiny little mind, trying to come up with some recordings....it's tough...heres what I remember Charles K Noyes had an LP called "The World And The Raw People" It might have been on Rift or MetaLanguage. There was the "Invite The Spirit" Double LP on OAO w/Noyes, Kaiser, and Sang won Park.(DONT buy the CD copy! it's a Karakos rip-off, mastered from a scratched LP) Mark Miller played drums on Elliot Sharp's ISM which has been reissued so many times on so many different labels it's hard to keep track of them all. Laswell, Olu Dara, and Art Baron also appear on this. Miller and Noyes were also in a thrash/punk trio called Toy Killers, Miller was in the Golden Palomino's for about 3 seconds(Playing Bass),and was 1/3 of JZ's "Impressions of Africa" trio, and of course, he ran Studio Henry, one of the best loft/performance spaces around NY. CK Noyes has done a lot of playing with Henry Kaiser(including a trio performance w/Sonny Sharrock) Thats about all I can come up with. Rich - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:58:35 -0600 From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Oh shit! (Was: Re: masada on sale) >On Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:47:07 -0600, Rusty Crump wrote, >> >CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it >> >considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", >> >except the one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only >> >2-3 CDs which one should i pick up? >> >> FOUR. Abso-rootie-tootie-tootly. > >And on Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:01:32 -0600, Rusty Crump wrote: >> 15. Masada - 4. >> (For "Hobah" and no other reason.) > > For the sake of the CD Universe buyer whose name I've lost, the >CD Rusty refers to is actually 5/Hei, not 4/Dalet. Dalet is good, >but for an introduction you might want more than 18 minutes of >music. I'm not sure which one I would recommend...1/Alef hooked >me but good, and I've listened to 8/Het a lot recently. > > I'm not up to making a best-20 list. I've only got about 300 CDs, >anyway. :-P > > >-- Charles > > >- Oh, shit! Got my Masadas mixed up! My bad! Damn, how embarrassing! Rusty Crump - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:58:56 -0800 From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: bryars - --------------531724DE64E70034C52BB288 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G. Grella wrote: >Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most superficial >variation, does not music make. Are you completely writing off minimalism here, or just this particular piece? Reich, Riley, Young, Andriessen, Glass? Gamelon (and much non-western music)? What about Sinking of the Titanic (Bryars) which I've noticed on a few top 20s? What about the Bryars album (the name escapes me) with Alaric (sp?) featuring, inter alia, Evan Parker and Bill Frisell - this is one of my favorites. Though I must admit these styles of music have always been much more effective for me hearing them live in concert ... cappyd - --------------531724DE64E70034C52BB288 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> G. Grella wrote: >Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most superficial >variation, does not music make. Are you completely writing off minimalism here, or just this particular piece? Reich, Riley, Young, Andriessen, Glass? Gamelon (and much non-western music)? What about Sinking of the Titanic (Bryars) which I've noticed on a few top 20s? What about the Bryars album (the name escapes me) with Alaric (sp?) featuring, inter alia, Evan Parker and Bill Frisell - this is one of my favorites. Though I must admit these styles of music have always been much more effective for me hearing them live in concert ... cappyd</HTML> - --------------531724DE64E70034C52BB288-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:58:21 -0800 From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Brian Olewnick writes: > Regarding "idea" pieces, this is perhaps an area where non-musician > listeners (like myself) might have an advantage, where development or > lack thereof may be less of an issue. Maybe it becomes easier to > consider a piece as an 'art object' rather than as a specifically > musical work. For example, perhaps the ultimate relatively recent idea > piece (and one that could've made my Top 20 list) is Alvin Lucier's 'I > Am Sitting In A Room'. I easily sit tranfixed, listening to it > unfold--a non-musical process that, incredibly, produces music! > Wonderful! This 'setting in motion' type of composition (and I think > 'Jesus' Blood' qualifies, as well as Eno's 'Discreet Music' and > progeny) has great inherent fascination for me. > > George, you cited Carl Stone's 'Mom's' as a favorite, I think. Isn't > 'Shing Kee' (among others) somewhat comparable to Bryers' piece? I > find both stunningly and equally gorgeous. > "I am sitting in a room " is one of the great post-war composition, IMO. I disagree that it is a non-musical process, however; the point of the piece, like all Lucier's work, is to make music. Most pieces, the listener hears the end result and has no clue to the process, while in this one you know the process, hear the process work, and hear the end result, a rare combination, and even rarer still is that the music sounds good! Along with the Lovely Music CD, I've heard another recording which was Lucier's first take, in a different room. Interesting for contrast, but the room was harsher in it's acoustic, the transformations not as pleasant or harmonically rich. Stone's and Bryar's work, as discussed, is comparable in the most general sense, I agree, but I think there is an important difference in their conception that makes and breaks it for me. The Stone pieces begin a certain way and transform into something altogether different; they have a powerful structure that allows for complex events inside, events that are part of the process. Bryar's piece gives away it's hand immediately which I think is its mistake; the sample is the core, and while the backgrounds have their gradual transformations, there's the sample, which tires quickly. There's no mystery, no tension, no sense that the unexpected ever happens. What I would compare the Bryar's to, as a lesson in how to do it right, is Passacaglia form, where the ground tune [read sample for Bryar's] is itself transformed through modulation and variation, all the while continuing in other voices [the most general description, before people want to start picking nits]. I don't hear anything substantially varied in "Jesus Blood." gg - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:55:46 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Musiq Concrete; 3rd Stream >>>>> "peter" == peter risser <peter_risser@cinfin.com> writes: peter> I second that whole-heartedly. I routinely put the title peter> track on mix tapes for friends and they're like, That's SO peter> wierd, but sorta funky... Plus, the development of two of peter> the other pieces are excellent experiments in minimalism, peter> but different than the usual definition. The funky track has always somehow reminded me of the Remain in Light Talking Heads album. It sounds like one of the guitar solos, run through a shredder and pasted back together. peter> BTW, one of my favorite Musique Concrete pieces of all time peter> is Revolution #9 by the Beatles. I love listening to peter> Beatles A-Z weekends, just so I can hear this piece come peter> over the radio, preceeded by the usual remarks about how peter> this is routinely voted the LEAST favorite Beatles song by peter> Beatles fans. I love it. Ditto. I've got this on a mix tape somewhere, and it always surprises me when it comes up. Very advanced and forward looking, with a clearer shape than works two decades newer and put together by people with better academic credentials. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:25:14 -0800 From: "Allen Gittelson" <Allen.Gittelson@eng.efi.com> Subject: top 20 (or so) list I long held high regard for the "desert island", "Top x", etc type of favorites lists. I can't seem to locate the last one that I compiled, but this is fairly accurate. I may have left some critical favorites out of this list as the sinus problem I have at the moment is affecting my thinking and listening. In no particular order: Trout Mask Replica - Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band The Dark Side of the Moon - Pink Floyd Discipline - King Crimson In the Court of the Crimson King - King Crimson The Modern Dance - Pere Ubu Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles The Beatles (a.k.a. The White Album) - The Beatles A Big 10-8 Place - Negativland Naked City - Naked City Duck Stab (CD w/Goosebumps) - The Residents Eskimo - The Residents Indeterminacy - John Cage We're Only in it for the Money (Original Vinyl or CD reissue w/original drums and bass) - Frank Zappa Lumpy Gravy - Frank Zappa The Velvet Underground & Nico - The Velvet Underground & Nico Trans Europe Express - Kraftwerk Check Your Head - The Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique - The Beastie Boys Electric Ladyland - Jimi Hendrix Laurie Anderson - Poeme Electronique - Edgard Varese Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables - Dead Kennedys Strategies Against Architechture - Einsturzende Neubauten Entertainment! - The Gang of Four Power, Corruption, & Lies - New Order The Wall - Pink Floyd Music with Sound - The Tape Beatles Another Green World - Brian Eno Twang Bar King - Adrian Belew Lone Rhino - Adrian Belew Hexed - Gem I have some good ideas of albums I should listen to from all the posts about this topic. Good idea. Ciao, Allen Gittelson email to: allen.gittelson@eng.efi.com P.S. I also agree with Pete Risser about GANRYU ISLAND: Michihiro Sato and John Zorn. Great album. I'd love to see it available, as the only copy I've ever seen is the same one Pete has. It does tend to weed out the listening audience. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:25:42 UT From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Carl Stone's Mom <<The funky track has always somehow reminded me of the Remain in Light Talking Heads album. It sounds like one of the guitar solos, run through a shredder and pasted back together. >> Actually, my guess is that it's a Zydeco tune. Anyone know who done it before Carl Stone got ahold of it? Peter - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:20:09 UT From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Top 20 Report Yeah, I did it. Here's the stats so far: Top Artists by number of mentions over 5: Faith No More - 5 Genesis - 5 Jimi Hendrix - 5 Sonic Youth - 5 Bill Frisell - 6 Boredoms - 6 Art Ensemble of Chicago - 6 Glenn Branca - 6 Masada - 6 Sonny Sharrock - 6 Sun Ra - 6 Thelonius Monk - 7 Iannis Xenakis - 7 Eric Dolphy - 7 John Cage - 7 Can - 7 Cecil Taylor - 7 Mr. Bungle - 7 Anthony Braxton - 8 Philip Glass - 8 Steve Reich - 9 Derek Bailey - 8 + 1 combo Brian Eno - 9 Stravinsky - 10 Albert Ayler - 11 Captain Beefheart - 11 King Crimson - 12 Tom Waits - 14 Beatles - 15 Charles Mingus - 15 Frank Zappa - 20 Naked City - 25 Ornette Coleman - 26 John Coltrane - 31 John Zorn (including Bar Kokhba, but NOT Naked City or Masada) - 32 + 3 in combos Miles Davis - 42 Just thought you'd like to know. Keep turnin' 'em in and I'll post a list later containing the top 20 albums. Peter - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #294 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.