home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
pub
/
lists
/
zorn-list
/
archive
/
v02.n293
< prev
next >
Wrap
Internet Message Format
|
1998-04-01
|
20KB
From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #293
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, April 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 293
In this issue:
-
Re: Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream
Re: Screwgun
Re: masada on sale
Re: 20 Records
Re[2]: Top 20 disappointments
21 albums you must listen to before you die.
Re: Top 20 disappointments
Re: 20 Records
Disappointments
Re: Top 20 disappointments
Re: Top 20 disappointments
20 Records
Re: top 20
Re[2]: Top 20 disappointments
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 14:16:37 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re: Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream
>Subject: Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream
>Author: <george_grella@decisionanalytics.com > at SMTP-for-MSSM
>Date: 4/2/98 10:02 AM
>May I suggest a great electronic record by a Composer, capital "C,"
>with a more pop sensibility than you'll find in the pages of Computer
>Music Journal; the record is "Mom's" on New Albion, the Composer is
>Carl Stone. It's the best of all worlds; ambient, cut-ups, constructed
>tension and release; rhythms. The most listenable electronic music I
>know.
Strongly seconded; another release considered for the Top 20. All of
Stone's work I've heard is recommended, including 'Kamiya Bar',
'Nyala' and his fine duet with Otomo Yoshihide, 'Monogatari--Amino
Argot' (which was mentioned on one or two of those lists).
Brian Olewnick
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:28:37 -0600
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: Screwgun
It seems to me that when in doubt, he's kidding.
I highly recommend you get "Saturation Point" too. I am biased because I
was there but I really like this one. It's got a tune on there called
"Screwgun" and it rocks! It's worth the $10 by a longshot.
Dan
At 7:25 PM -0600 4/1/98, William York wrote:
>I just got my copy of Tim Berne/Bloodcount's "Discretion" in the mail.
>Its really amazing, but anyway it came with a postcard announcing the Marc
>Ducret CD, and it said "Buy this CD and my power comes back on - Tim
>Berne". Don't tell me Screwgun is having financial problems already-
>I had read that they've been doing well. I know it's a sarcastic remark
>and that he's like that, but I just don't know how sarcastic.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:31:31 -0600
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: masada on sale
My roomates have the Jazz Door Masada disc and it seems to be a bootleg.
However, I recommend it. The live Masada is great. I can't wait until
that box set comes out with ten discs of live material. Also, I have a
feeling that JZ could be pretty upset about the fact that that Jazz Door cd
exists.
Dan
At 8:18 PM -0600 4/1/98, Peter Hollo wrote:
>I suspect that the Masada on Jazz Door isn't part of the series, but is
>a CD of a live performance they did in I think 1994. Recently I was
>listening to some Zorn in Red Eye Records (a superb Sydney records
>store) and had a listen to this one. It has a lot of great tracks from
>the first 3 Masadas, often in quite long versions, but I thought first I
>should get those Masadas 1-3. I'll agree with those other people who
>said get Masada 1-3 first. Definitely. But they're all excellent.
>I still think Bar Kokhba's even better, but perhaps it's because I'm a
>string player, or perhaps because, whilst I think the playing is superb
>on the Masadas, free jazz still leaves me a bit cold, whereas the Masada
>String Trio is just so totally lush and, oooh what can you say?!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 14:47:56 -0500
From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
Subject: Re: 20 Records
This as already pass=E9 as we've moved onto disappointments but what the
hell. In no particular order, favorites for today are...
Uz Jsme Doma 'Hollywood'
Holger Czukay/Dr. Walker 'Clash'
Gang of Four 'Entertainment!'
Faust 'IV'
Ivor Darreg 'Detwelvulate!'
Negativland 'Helter Stupid'
Red Crayola With Art and Language 'Kangeroo?'
Jon Hassell/Brian Eno 'Fourth World'
The Fall 'Hex Enduction Hour' or 'The Infotainment Scan'
Various Artists 'Minatures'
Prince Charming 'Psychotropic Heat'
Moondog 'Sax Pack for a Sax'
Sly and the Family Stone 'There's A Riot Goin' On'
Miles Davis 'Agharta'
Spike Jones 'Musical Depreciation Revue'
Merzbow 'Space Metalizer'
Robert Ashley 'Perfect Lives: Private Parts- The Bar'
Mothers of Invention 'We're Only In It For the Money'
Swamp Dogg 'Fuck The Bomb, Stop the Drugs'
Firesign Theatre 'Shoes For Industry'
Howlin' Wolf 'Howlin' Wolf' (box set)
It kills me that this leaves out Huun-Huur-Tu, Louis Jordan, the
Stooges, Professor Longhair, Black Flag, Flipper, Can, the Grifters, My
Bloody Valentine, Captain Beefheart, Thelonious Monk, Wire, Yo La Tengo,
Sonic Youth, Steve Reich and Hank Williams but I'll settle with this,
for now.
Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 14:34:49 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Top 20 disappointments
>Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments
>Author: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> at SMTP-for-MSSM
>Date: 4/2/98 2:11 PM
>Last Exit (whatever the first album title was)...After hearing so
>much >about it, AND after starting to listen to Zorn's weirder stuff
>and King >Crimson's weirder stuff, I absolutely hated this CD.
Hmmm...this one almost makes it into my TOP 20! Just goes to show...
There's one album that's been totally opaque to me for twenty years;
it's by my favorite musician in the world and I go back once in a
while to give it another try but, damn it, Braxton's 'Four Orchestras'
disappoints me every time! As if the whole affair isn't frustrating
enough, there's that one incredibly gorgeous extended, complex chord
about halfway through side one; I'd gladly listen to that for two
hours! Instead it's surrounded by plinks and scrapes that, I imagine,
only the driest serialist could love. Grrr...Maybe the spatial aspects
in live performance make a difference...
Incidentally, why all the griping over short disc times? Shouldn't the
dollar value of a product have to do more with the intrinsic worth of
the creation involved rather than peripheral matters like its
duration? Wouldn't most folk here rather listen to 20-25 minutes of
'Plexure' or 'Cynical Hysterie Hour' than 75 minutes of (for lack of a
better person to dump on) Celine Dion? Do you also feel cheated if a
good novel is only 150 pages long instead of being padded to 600?
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:57:51 -0300
From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar>
Subject: 21 albums you must listen to before you die.
Hi,
I think nobody should die before listening to the following albums.
So if any of you is planning to commit suicide, please get these records
first.
1- CHECK YOUR HEAD- Beastie Boys
2- NAKED CITY- Naked City
3- DISCO VOLANTE- Mr.Bungle
4- ANGEL DUST- Faith No More
5- GARDEN- Ikue Mori
6- FILMWORKS 86-90- John Zorn
7- KULMA- Panasonic
8- THE POD- Ween
9- MR.BUNGLE- Mr.Bungle
10- EXECUTION GROUND- Painkiller
11- LED ZEPPELIN II- Led Zeppelin
12- WHITE ALBUM- The Beatles
13- PORTISHEAD- Portishead
14- OK COMPUTER- Radiohead
15- SELECTED AMBIENT WORKS II- Aphex Twin
16- SONGS OF A DEAD DREAMER- DJ Spooky
17- AENIMA- Tool
18- SOUL DISCHARGE '99- Boredoms
19- LISTEN WITHOUT PREJUDICE- George Michael
20- HARD NORMAL DADDY- Squarepusher
21- BAR KOKHBA- John Zorn
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:02:31 -0500
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments
>>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick <brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu> writes:
brian> Incidentally, why all the griping over short disc
brian> times? Shouldn't the dollar value of a product have to do
brian> more with the intrinsic worth of the creation involved
brian> rather than peripheral matters like its duration? Wouldn't
brian> most folk here rather listen to 20-25 minutes of 'Plexure'
brian> or 'Cynical Hysterie Hour' than 75 minutes of (for lack of
brian> a better person to dump on) Celine Dion? Do you also feel
brian> cheated if a good novel is only 150 pages long instead of
brian> being padded to 600?
Absolutely! This morning on my way to work (when I usually get to
listen to about half a CD) I played Threadgill's Carry the Day.
Wonderful album, made me want to exchange it with Makin a Move (the
Very Very Circus album) on my essential list. And yet, I got to hear
the whole thing, all 37 minutes.
Frankly, I'd be exhausted after 75 minutes of Plexure. It's perfect
the way it is.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 12:40:27 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: 20 Records
On Wed, 01 Apr 1998 14:47:56 -0500 Perfect Sound Forever wrote:
>
> This as already passΘ as we've moved onto disappointments but what the
> hell. In no particular order, favorites for today are...
>
> Uz Jsme Doma 'Hollywood'
> Holger Czukay/Dr. Walker 'Clash'
> Gang of Four 'Entertainment!'
> Faust 'IV'
> Ivor Darreg 'Detwelvulate!'
> Negativland 'Helter Stupid'
> Red Crayola With Art and Language 'Kangeroo?'
> Jon Hassell/Brian Eno 'Fourth World'
> The Fall 'Hex Enduction Hour' or 'The Infotainment Scan'
> Various Artists 'Minatures'
> Prince Charming 'Psychotropic Heat'
> Moondog 'Sax Pack for a Sax'
> Sly and the Family Stone 'There's A Riot Goin' On'
> Miles Davis 'Agharta'
> Spike Jones 'Musical Depreciation Revue'
> Merzbow 'Space Metalizer'
> Robert Ashley 'Perfect Lives: Private Parts- The Bar'
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What do you think of the CD version? I was very disappointed that Bob
redid THE BAR for the CD box. I remember opening the box frantically,
knowing that I would not have to fear for my vinyl to wear out... and...
DARN! It was not the same :-(. The version on LP is, I think, much
better (it rocks!).
> Mothers of Invention 'We're Only In It For the Money'
> Swamp Dogg 'Fuck The Bomb, Stop the Drugs'
> Firesign Theatre 'Shoes For Industry'
> Howlin' Wolf 'Howlin' Wolf' (box set)
>
> It kills me that this leaves out Huun-Huur-Tu, Louis Jordan, the
> Stooges, Professor Longhair, Black Flag, Flipper, Can, the Grifters, My
> Bloody Valentine, Captain Beefheart, Thelonious Monk, Wire, Yo La Tengo,
> Sonic Youth, Steve Reich and Hank Williams but I'll settle with this,
> for now.
>
> Jason
> --
> Perfect Sound Forever
> online music magazine
> perfect-sound@furious.com
> http://www.furious.com/perfect
>
>
> -
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:57:38 -0800
From: Zorn <gking@win.bright.net>
Subject: Disappointments
As far as dissappointments in Zorn's work i only have a couple..
First is Leng T'che, which is my least favorite Naked City...i listen to it
occassionally but it usually just doesn't do anything for me.
Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still just sounds
like the same few chords played over and over again for 40+ minutes and it
gets quite annoying.
other than those two i have enjoyed pretty much every other zorn album i
have heard.
- -matt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:04:39 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments
I concur, an excellent topic, especially once the debate starts over the
same items on the two different kinds of lists:
Marc Ribot - Rootless Cosmopolitans; I think he's a great musician on
other people's records, but a lousy band leader making bad pieces of
music.
Don Byron - Bug Music; The critics raved about this one last year, and
there's a lot of good music playing on it. But I question the whole
premise of recreating old recordings in the contet of a living music,
jazz. We already have Wynton Marsalis as a curator of dead things, we
don't need another.
Bahia Black - Ritual Beating System; Another Laswell dud. I've really
tried to give his records generous listenings, but I have come to the
conclusion that while his musicianship and taste are limited, his
pretentiousness is not.
Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most superficial
variation, does not music make. I'd rather listen to a recording of
Czerny exercises.
Glass - Heroes Symphony; He can either be brilliant or awful, this one
is awful.
Glenn Branca Symphonies; At best these are interesting studies, if they
were maybe a few minutes long. Like Bryars, it's one thing to have an
idea, another to develop it.
Alvin Curran - Animal Behviour; I have several excellent recordings of
his, and was excited about this one, only to find it contained inferior
versions of music he had already done.
Steve Lacy - Itinerary; One of my personal gods with a big band
record?! Turned up to be the stiffest thing I'd ever heard him do.
Cecil Taylor - In Flouresence; Another god. I had just seen Gregg
Bendian with Derek Bailey and Robert Dick when this CD came out, and I
jumped on it. Their conceptions never work together.
Mahler Symphony #1, Dohnanyi and Cleveland Symphony; One of my favorite
pieces by a favorite composer, recorded by maybe the finest American
orchestra. The results were pallid.
That's 10, I guess, which is good, fewer, far fewer than favorites . . .
or maybe I've thankfully forgotten a lot more disappointments.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:20:33 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments
On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote:
> Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most superficial
> variation, does not music make. I'd rather listen to a recording of
> Czerny exercises.
I disagree on this (though I do prefer the Obscure recording to the recent
one with the pointless and distracting added vocal). Of course repetition
does not necessarily make music -- it's the variations that do (and I
can't see calling the subtle changes in this piece "superficial").
> Alvin Curran - Animal Behviour; I have several excellent recordings of
> his, and was excited about this one, only to find it contained inferior
> versions of music he had already done.
I don't find that it resembles his earlier work much. OTOH, I'm rarely
inspired to listen to it.
Re: the Branca tracks: there's now a compilation CD that may be more to
your liking. His recordings don't do much for me, but being there at the
performance/recording of Symphony #3 was the closest I've ever been to
achieving ecstacy within a jet turbine.
I guess my top disappointments would be Mystic Fugu Orchestra's "Zohar"
(I've learned to keep a safe distance from Eye's work, even his Naked City
tracks) and Frank Zappa's "Thing Fish" (where the labored faux-ethnic
imitations make it difficult to hear the music).
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:22:30 -0500
From: Michael Boock <m.boock@csu-e.csuohio.edu>
Subject: 20 Records
Before this subject becomes too passe, without looking at my collection, in no particular order...
King Crimson - Lark's Tongue in Aspic
Fairport Convention - Unhalfbricking
Kate Bush - The Dreaming
John Zorn - Bar Kokhba
Helmet - Meantime
Rickie Lee Jones - s/t
Tom Waits - Rain Dogs
The Beatles - White Album
Genesis - Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
Cherry/Haden/Blackwell/Redmon - Old and New Dreams
Van Morrison - Astral Weeks
Pere Ubu - Modern Dance
David Thomas - Monster Walks Winter Lake
Laurie Anderson - Big Science
Brian Eno - Another Green World
Al Green - I'm Still in Love with You
Material - Memory Serves
Stevie Wonder - Innervisions
Velvet Underground and Nico - s/t (1st album)
Pretenders - s/t (1st album)
Roxy Music - s/t (1st album)
Randy Newman - Sail Away
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:45:22 EST
From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com>
Subject: Re: top 20
I haven't thought about my list yet, but I do think I'll get around to it.
This is really sounding like and a good exercise for some insight into the
people on the list, and ourselves.....in the meantime, would anyone care to
speculate on what it is that is common to our lists that brings us all
hovering around Zorn? Just a thought....like we need another one to wrack our
brains over lately.....
Dale.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 16:33:14 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Top 20 disappointments
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
george grella wrote:
>Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most superficial
>variation, does not music make. I'd rather listen to a recording of
>Czerny exercises.
Don't know if it would make much difference (or if you're already
doing so), but judgment should optimally be made on the original Obscure
version, not the somewhat awkward Point release with, IMHO, the
unnecessary introduction of Tom Waits into the proceedings.
>Glenn Branca Symphonies; At best these are interesting studies, if they
>were maybe a few minutes long. Like Bryars, it's one thing to have an
>idea, another to develop it.
As one who likes' em plenty, I can only say: hear it live.
Regarding "idea" pieces, this is perhaps an area where non-musician
listeners (like myself) might have an advantage, where development or
lack thereof may be less of an issue. Maybe it becomes easier to
consider a piece as an 'art object' rather than as a specifically
musical work. For example, perhaps the ultimate relatively recent idea
piece (and one that could've made my Top 20 list) is Alvin Lucier's 'I
Am Sitting In A Room'. I easily sit tranfixed, listening to it
unfold--a non-musical process that, incredibly, produces music!
Wonderful! This 'setting in motion' type of composition (and I think
'Jesus' Blood' qualifies, as well as Eno's 'Discreet Music' and
progeny) has great inherent fascination for me.
George, you cited Carl Stone's 'Mom's' as a favorite, I think. Isn't
'Shing Kee' (among others) somewhat comparable to Bryers' piece? I
find both stunningly and equally gorgeous.
My 2 cents, anyway.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #293
*******************************
To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
"majordomo@xmission.com"
with
"unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
in the body of the message.
For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
"help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
in the commands above with "zorn-list".
Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.