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1998-04-01
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #292
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, April 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 292
In this issue:
-
Re: 20 essential records
Re: Naked City
Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream
Re: musique concrete
Re: Bush of Ghosts/Remain in Light
Top 20 disappointments
testin
Re[2]: 20 Records (Rock sub-division)
Re: Miller / Noyes // plus: new CDs
Re: Top 20 disappointments
Re: Top 20 disappointments
Re: Top 20 disappointments
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:56:59 -0600
From: magnum-jihad@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson)
Subject: Re: 20 essential records
jeez, this was hard.
King Crimson--RED
Sonny Sharrock--ASK THE AGES
John Zorn--BAR KOCHBA
Tom Waits--FRANKS WILD YEARS
Husker Du--ZEN ARCADE
Miles Davis--BITCHES' BREW
Ornette Coleman--FREE JAZZ
Ikue Mori--PAINTED DESERT
Richard Thompson--RUMOUR AND SIGH
Feelies--CRAZY RHYTHMS
John Coltrane--AFRICA BRASS
Don Caballero-2
Steve Beresford-SIGNALS FOR TEA
Tim Berne-FULTON STREET MAUL
Pixies--COME ON PILGRIM
Lounge Lizards--self-titled
Bailey,Zorn,Parker-HARRASS (sp?)
Television--THE BLOW UP (LIVE)
Praxis-TRANSMUTATION
Pigpen--LIVE IN POLAND
so incomplete...........
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:42:35 -0500 (EST)
From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Naked City
> Okay, who out there knows ALL the Naked City records, and what can you
> tell me about each one?
Very quickly:
the self titled one is amazing, and very fun, with covers of spy music,
some tracks from the infamous torture garden, and a whole lot of jump-cut
originals. Beutiful sound, too...
'radio' is the one i listen to the least. It's 19 tracks, not as good
productions as the first one, and the songs don't catch me as much. It
starts out fairly tame (for them) and ends on some very zorney notes, with
crazy jump cuts and noise and the whole bit
'grand guignol' is more like three smaller albums. The first song is 17
miunutes, and it's an ominous, rumbly, burst-of-noise injected horror-show
soundtrack. The next few are interpretations of classical music, ranging
from Ives, Messien, Debussy, DeLassus and Scriabin. The last 34 or so
songs comprise the rest of the infamous torture garden.
'absinthe' is haunting, subtle, spooky, quiet (at times), and very
experimental. It doesn't sound like Naked City at all at all at all -
Zorn doesn't even play on this one. It's amazing, though.
'heretic' is a bunch of smaller combos made up from the Naked City group,
with only one song featuring all of them. The rest are duets/trios, and
are improvised (at least, they sound like it). It's interesting.
ta da.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:02:25 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream
May I suggest a great electronic record by a Composer, capital "C," with
a more pop sensibility than you'll find in the pages of Computer Music
Journal; the record is "Mom's" on New Albion, the Composer is Carl
Stone. It's the best of all worlds; ambient, cut-ups, constructed
tension and release; rhythms. The most listenable electronic music I
know.
gg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:11:49 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: musique concrete
On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:23 -0500 (EST) ia zha nah er vesen wrote:
> >
> > Actually, i think a very valid point was raised here a little while ago
> > that there really are formal differences between 'academic' and
> > 'underground' electroacousticians, with the former making more use of
> > dynamic changes and tension/release passages (which is very much part of
> > the western concert music tradition) while the latter tend towards more
> > sprawling ambient drones and such. I think there's something in that.
>
> I think that the main difference is that one has "Composer" on his
> business card (and, to a lesser extent, some subsidies and a desk in
> a University).
I think ia zha has a valid point here. To a great extent, popular music
tends to have a much narrower dynamic range than concert music. Even when
the popular music has contrasting densities, the recording or performance
is often compressed to such an extent that the resulting loudness remains
steady. In a concert hall, one can expect to have the full attention of
the audience, who are willing and expected to burrow down into the quiet
sounds and be engulfed by the loud ones. In the environments in which
popular musics are usually experienced (the home, cars, radio, clubs)
there is a lot of ambient sound to deal with; you may have had the
experience of listening to a recording of concert music and having to turn
it up to hear the quiet stuff and down to avoid breaking your lease :-).
(There are instances of extreme dynamic shifts in pop records -- the
openings of King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King" and Pink
Floyd's "The Wall" come to mind, but they tend to be there for the
surprise value and occur at the beginning of a CD or an album side, so
that once the listener has jumped up and reset the volume to an
appropriate setting, it stays constant.)
So, yeah, it makes sense that music written for total-attention-listening
environments would tend to include more dynamic shifts. It also makes
sense that these musics would come out of the academic environments, where
there's more chance to hear them in their native environment (that is, the
concert hall). Musics composed for other environments, and by composers
from non-academic settings would have the steady volumes that, for these
practical reasons, is typical of this kind of music.
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:20:46 -0600
From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>
Subject: Re: Bush of Ghosts/Remain in Light
>Bush of Ghosts is one of my favorite albums of all time, and I was recently
>introduced to Remain in Light, which is also excellent. How far
>backwards/forwards should I go listening to Talking Heads before I get
>away from
>this sound?
>
>Private emails, if this in inappropriate for the list.
>
>Thanks,
>Peter
>
>
>
>risser@goodnews.net
>
>-
Remain/Bush are of a piece, I'd say, and almost unique. Nothing in the
T.Heads discography after Remain sounds like that. Fear of Music, the
previous album, sort of leads up to Remain (the same way that Station to
Station can be seen as a prelude to the Bowie/Eno Berlin Trilogy). Some
similarities, especially in "I Zimbra."
Record two of the HIGHLY underrated live album (The Name of This Band Is
Talking Heads) consists of live versions of a few Remain in Light songs and
others, arranged for that kind of funk-heavy effect, for the expanded band
that toured after Remain came out. 2nd bassist Busta Cherry Jones, Adrian
Belew, Worrell, Scales, Nona Hendryx, etc. -- highly recommended, much more
than the "Stop Making Sense" soundtrack. P-Funk meets Television? Only
their hairdressers know for sure.
Another Eno album from the same period that worked a similar vein was
Fourth World Vol. 1: Possible Musics by Eno and Jon Hassell. Also
recommended.
Rusty Crump
Oxford, Mississippi
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:25:54 +0200
From: Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl>
Subject: Top 20 disappointments
The feedback to BJOERN's question was amazing, but, on the other hand,
people always like to talk about their favourite albums, cars, lipsticks,
food, movies, sex partners... ;-)
I have other question:
WHAT IS YOUR GREATEST MUSIC DISSAPOINTMENT?
Did you bought an album recommended by somebody and get frustrated by the
poor quality of the music (BJOERN?) ? Did you wait for months for a CD and
wanted to destroy it after first listening (because you spent 20$ for 20
minutes long japanese import)?
After first look at the "Top 20" replies it seems that Zorn is not the
favourite artist on the "John Zorn Mailing List" (way behind Davis,
Coltrane, Faith no More, King Crimson, David Bowie...). I can bet he will
be mentioned frequently on the "Top 20 disappointment" list!
Please, do not mail John Zorn discography in replies!
Artur %-X
----------------------------------
Artur Nowak (arno@silesia.top.pl)
Licht und Liebe sich entzuenden
Wo sich Streng' und Milde finden.
Zorn und Finsternis entbrennen
Wo sich Streng' und Milde trennen.
----------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:01:47 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: perojo@unsl.edu.ar
Subject: testin
testing 2 ...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 12:24:35 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: 20 Records (Rock sub-division)
Subject: Re: 20 Records
Author: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> at SMTP-for-MSSM
Date: 4/2/98 8:57 AM
I should have never done that, but here we go (just the tip of my iceberg of
favorites). (Bjorn, you should have asked a list per genre; thinking about
that more, it would still have been a pain :-).
Hey, what the hell. As long as we're indulging our anal selves here,
and since my original list consisted almost entirely of jazz and
contemporary classical, here's my top 20 rock albums. NB: Of course,
distinctions between genres are often arbitrary, but the following
strike me as more 'rock' than otherwise; opinions may differ.
1) Glenn Branca The Ascension
2) John Zorn Leng T'che
3) Captain Beefheart Lick My Decals Off, Baby
4) Captain Beefheart Trout Mask Replica
5) Fripp/Eno No Pussyfooting
6) Rhys Chatham Die Donnergotter
7) Glenn Branca Symphony #6
8) Glenn Branca Symphonies #8 & 10
9) Julie Tippetts Sunset Glow
10) Laurie Anderson Big Science
11) Glenn Branca Symphony #2
12) Jimi Hendrix Electric Ladyland
13) Fripp/Eno Evening Star
14) Caspar Brotzmann Home
15) Blind Idiot God Blind Idiot God
16) Elliott Sharp Larynx
17) Jimi Hendrix Are You Experienced?
18) John Fahey The Legend of Blind Joe Death
19) The Roches The Roches
20) Frank Zappa Burnt Weenie Sandwich
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:04:24 +0200
From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Miller / Noyes // plus: new CDs
> On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:05:03 +0200 Chris Genzel wrote:
>>
>> Through "Locus Solus" and the first Golden Palominos album, I became
>> interested
>> in Mark (M.E.) Miller. I know he's on the Material "Live From Soundscape"
>> CD,
>> but I can't distinguish him from Moss and Noyes on this set.
>> What can you tell me about Miller? What recordings of his are available and
>> recommended? Is he still active?
>
> Tidbit about Mark Miller: he is married to a country singer in San Francisco;
> they have a band together that plays lots of weddings [it was a couple years
> ago].
So it seems like his musically more adventurous days are gone ... is he still
throwing firecrackers into the audience? :)
>
> > The same question goes for Charles K. Noyes -- I love his appearance on
> > "Memory Serves" and I also have "Improvised Music New York 1981".
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > - Chris.
C'mon, there must be something you know about Miller and Noyes, or at least
a record you could recommend.
- Chris.
P.S. Yesterday I went to Munich for my monthly big CD orgy and I came back
with these CDs:
SXL - Into the Outlands
New York Gong - About Time
Bob Ostertag - Verbatim
The Last Poets - Time Has Come
Jonas Hellborg with Buckethead and Michael Shrieve - Octave of the Holy
Innocents
Ground-Zero - Revolutionary Pekinese Opera Ver.1.28
(I just listened to this--what a great, weird and noisy thang. Are
there significant differences between v1.28 and the other version(s)?)
Divination - Light In Extension
The Dark Side Of The Moog VI (Pete Namlook, Klaus Schulze, Bill Laswell)
Daevid Allen - Divided Alien Clockwork Band
And on Monday, I finally got "Cypher 7: Security" and "Buckethead: The
Day Of The Robot" which I ordered some time ago.
What a lucky guy I am to get hold of all this wonderful music.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:11:54 -0500
From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org>
Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments
>The feedback to BJOERN's question was amazing, but, on the other hand,
>people always like to talk about their favourite albums, cars, lipsticks,
>food, movies, sex partners... ;-)
>I have other question:
>
>WHAT IS YOUR GREATEST MUSIC DISSAPOINTMENT?
>
>Did you bought an album recommended by somebody and get frustrated by the
>poor quality of the music (BJOERN?) ? Did you wait for months for a CD and
>wanted to destroy it after first listening (because you spent 20$ for 20
>minutes long japanese import)?
>
>After first look at the "Top 20" replies it seems that Zorn is not the
>favourite artist on the "John Zorn Mailing List" (way behind Davis,
>Coltrane, Faith no More, King Crimson, David Bowie...). I can bet he will
>be mentioned frequently on the "Top 20 disappointment" list!
>
>Please, do not mail John Zorn discography in replies!
>
>Artur %-X
>
> ----------------------------------
> Artur Nowak (arno@silesia.top.pl)
> Licht und Liebe sich entzuenden
> Wo sich Streng' und Milde finden.
> Zorn und Finsternis entbrennen
> Wo sich Streng' und Milde trennen.
> ----------------------------------
>
>
>-
Great idea. Now we get down to the nitty gritty. This one's easier. I
can't think of 20 off of my head, but there are a few major ones....
Last Exit (whatever the first album title was)...After hearing so much
about it, AND after starting to listen to Zorn's weirder stuff and King
Crimson's weirder stuff, I absolutely hated this CD. I actually stooped to
the level of microwaving it in a dish of water until weird little cracks
appeared below the surface to return it and get something else. ("wow, man,
that's really wierd, I've never seen a CD do that before"). I know, I know
how bad that is (like pouring out a beer in front of an alcoholic).
Derek Bailey & Ruins - Sainsoro. I guess I just don't get the whole Derek
Bailey thing. I think he takes away from Ruins (I have
Hyderomasteg...whatever and I like that one a lot).
Zorn/Naked City - Torture Garden - I'm gonna catch a lot of flak for this
one, but after the first dozen or so pieces I find them pretty
uninteresting. There's only so many times I can hear a bunch of styles
sandwiched between thrash parts and Eye's screams and then have the piece
end after 20 seconds. I bought this one after getting Naked City and
Absinthe without knowing anything about each Naked City release before I
bought 'em, and I already knew I didn't like the short pieces that much, so
when I realized this was 42 (or is it 46) of 'em after I got it home and
opened it, ugh.
Leonard Cohen - Best Of - After hearing so many people cite him as a
major influence and hearing people on the Tom Waits listserv rave about him
I borrowed a friend's CD. I didn't find his lyrics special at all, and I
really disliked the music.
I like noise, but I guess at the bottom of it I'm a melody guy. I like the
noise to have some sort of melody buried in it somewhere. I guess that
puts me at odds with many of Zorn's releases, but I'll never stop cheking
them out. I would never get rid of the Bailey/Ruins or Torture Gardne
releases. I periodically go back to them to see if I get 'em, but no
progress yet.
- -Chris
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:09:01 -0500
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments
>>>>> "Artur" == Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl> writes:
Artur> WHAT IS YOUR GREATEST MUSIC DISSAPOINTMENT?
Geez, my mailbox is still so full from the recommendations! Not 20
disappointments, but here's a few.
1) Blue Cheer - InsideOutside. I remembered this one fondly from my
early years, and I see Blue Cheer mentioned as an influence on new
psych bands a lot, but it was a big disappointment when I picked it up
again.
2) Blauer Hirsch. Penguin Jazz Guide compared this to Last Exit, and
I liked Gysi's work on Domestic Stories, but this has all the volume
and none of the subtlety of most of the loud noise we like to discuss.
3) Jean Schwarz - Quatre Saisons. German lieder sung by a tenor with
musique concrete accompaniment. Taught me to do better research
before taking chances on complete unknowns, and that not all musique
concrete is listenable (much less interesting).
Artur> After first look at the "Top 20" replies it seems that Zorn
Artur> is not the favourite artist on the "John Zorn Mailing List"
Artur> (way behind Davis, Coltrane, Faith no More, King Crimson,
Artur> David Bowie...). I can bet he will be mentioned frequently
Artur> on the "Top 20 disappointment" list!
4) Two Zorn disappointments are my one Masada disk (probably Masada
two) and Leng T'che. I find Eye's screaming very difficult to take
even in small doses, although one of the other albums with him in a
prominent place (Heretic?) is more listenable.
Also, I agree with an earlier poster that the variety of Zorn's output
is largely responsible for the variety in taste that we've seen in the
top 20 exercise. Some of the lists have had only jazz, some no jazz
at all, some all noise, lots of classical. I've been amazed at our
collective extremely varied taste.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:29:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments
On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Chris Barrett wrote:
> Derek Bailey & Ruins - Sainsoro. I guess I just don't get the whole Derek
> Bailey thing. I think he takes away from Ruins (I have
> Hyderomasteg...whatever and I like that one a lot).
this is really more like a derek bailey record than a ruins one. i
wouldn't recommend it to anyone until they get into bailey. after that
the derek & the ruins disc seems like such a great idea.
> Leonard Cohen - Best Of - After hearing so many people cite him as a
> major influence and hearing people on the Tom Waits listserv rave about him
> I borrowed a friend's CD. I didn't find his lyrics special at all, and I
> really disliked the music.
what i like about cohen is the cynical realism of his songs, so many of
which are about various stages of loving someone. no sentimental
tripe-peddler would dare sing about blowjobs in the chelsea hotel.
b
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #292
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